If I'm being honest, I really hope not. While there are absolutely benefits to a transportation-as-a-service model, in most cases it means higher prices and less control for you. The price issue may be less of a concern or even moot if cities decide to operate these ride services as part of their public transportation network, but even so, I'd want to retain ownership over at least one of my transportation options (i.e. personal vehicle, powered bicycle, etc). I feel similarly about entertainment media - streaming is very convenient but I'm shifting my consumption back toward physical media or DRM-free digital files to ensure I maintain control over the media I've paid for.

i hear you... just as with anything, there are costs and benefits. i think it will come down to consumer preference and perception if the subscription model ever catches on. no matter what, i don't think that private ownership will completely go away. besides those who hold out based on personal preference, the subscription model will not make sense for all consumers.

Not realistic. Liability/ insurance issues. Number of on call ride service vehicles needed would be problamatic. Nobody boating or camping anymore? No family road trips? I mean c'mon now.

I'm still waiting for this 65 year old prediction

i don't think any of those are concerns that can't be overcome. insurance can just shift to a 'no fault' model. filling variable customer demand, especially during demand surges, will sometimes be a challenge. i think there will be varying subscription tiers with agreements on wait time and ride sharing. those that want an absolute guaranty on availability may still choose the ownership model. i see the subscription model working similar to what cadillac and (i think) volvo tried out... this grants a level of model selection and the ability to 'check out' vehicles for excursions like towing or road trips. for regular towing, people may even choose to own rather than subscribe. i think the system will be somewhat flexible.

self-driving technology definitely isn't mature now. however, i don't think that the challenges are insurmountable as they are with flying cars. it really isn't a good comparison. if the technology doesn't catch on, it will likely be more of an issue of consumer preference rather than limitations of technology.

I think the point that most cars aren't being used at any specific point in time somewhat counters the "number of on-call ride services vehicles needed". - You wouldn't need one per person, you would need one for every few people.

I would appreciate it even if my personal car was autonomous - I go to the gym then the office early in the morning, my partner goes to work later in the morning. If once I get to the office, I could send my car home for him to then use to go to work, that would be beneficial.

Also, there are already start-ups for self-driving / autonomous taxi services. Check out Waymo for example. Since these already exist, I wouldn't say they are "not realistic".

I agree that it would be nice to have these at some point in the future. However, that may be many decades from now, if ever. If I was pressed to "bet" on the future of true self-driving taxis I'd estimate that we don't see them in the next 30 years. I have followed the Tesla, Uber, and Waymo claims fairly closely. I think the Bloomberg article below best summarizes where we are at now, and why we have a long way to go. For what it's worth, Elon Musk's use of the label "self-driving" is both explicitly wrong and, in my opinion, dangerous.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-10-06/even-after-100-billion-self-driving-cars-are-going-nowhere?leadSource=uverify%20wall

Martin I took the most issue with your prediction of "most people won't have to worry...". I think the subset of people embracing this as not close to "most".

Elon Musk has said that at some point in the future, Tesla will no longer sell cars to consumers. They will only build them for his robotaxi service. He has also stated that Tesla owners will be able to make their own car a robotaxi too. Anytime it's not being used, it will carry around paying riders. I've seen YouTube videos of people calling the car an investment that will earn them income. Someday this may be possible, but I don't foresee it anytime soon.

As to your last point - true to an extent, but Francis Energy (an OK company) is planning on putting chargers every 50 miles across middle America, from what I understand. Not every 50 miles on an Interstate, but apparently no matter where you are in middle America (not sure how they define that), you'll never be more than 50 miles away from a charger. Ambitious, hope they can pull it off.

Is Francis Energy related to Kaiser-Francis Oil Company? I bet it is.

Is Francis Energy related to Kaiser-Francis Oil Company? I bet it is.

No relation.

Tell you what though, if the Fiat 500e Abarth comes to the US I’ll likely purchase that as my first EV. Looks like a super fun car to drive.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/2023-fiat-abarth-500e-the-angry-little-hot-hatch-goes-electric?utm_campaign=trueanthem_AI&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_term=thedrive&fbclid=IwAR0d2slKXwYsnRHMJyhFai_RBXMPov7oR8ptWIe48 WGm3oIB3HWPg6wt8Yc

But then you have to drive a Fiat! Fix It Again Tomorrow!

Tell you what though, if the Fiat 500e Abarth comes to the US I’ll likely purchase that as my first EV. Looks like a super fun car to drive.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/2023-fiat-abarth-500e-the-angry-little-hot-hatch-goes-electric?utm_campaign=trueanthem_AI&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_term=thedrive&fbclid=IwAR0d2slKXwYsnRHMJyhFai_RBXMPov7oR8ptWIe48 WGm3oIB3HWPg6wt8Yc

Uglier than the MINI, but I'm biased. :) Range is longer and charging is faster than the MINI, though, so....

Uglier than the MINI, but I'm biased. :) Range is longer and charging is faster than the MINI, though, so....
I’m considering that or the Mini but I’m waiting to see if the Abarth EV even comes to America.

Great article by Motor Trend:

You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars (https://www.motortrend.com/features/truth-about-electric-cars-ad-why-you-are-being-lied-to/)
Science has repeatedly shown EVs are better for humans, despite the meme you just retweeted.

Great article by Motor Trend:

You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars (https://www.motortrend.com/features/truth-about-electric-cars-ad-why-you-are-being-lied-to/)
Science has repeatedly shown EVs are better for humans, despite the meme you just retweeted.

Very good at debunking all the crap out there. There are pretty much no vehicles that are completely "clean" (although solar powered ones might come closest :)), but EVs are the best environmental option out there right now.

That article is pretty solid about the main talking points. But I am curious about the environmental impacts of waste in regards to recyclability of both. Like has been mentioned in this thread multiple times, what about the manufacturing process to dispose of and create replacement batteries?

Doesnt quite answer your question, but this was a pretty interesting read:
Electric Car Batteries Lasting Longer Than Predicted Delays Recycling Programs (forbes.com) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2022/08/01/electric-car-batteries-lasting-longer-than-predicted-delays-recycling-programs/?sh=169768fb5332)

Doesnt quite answer your question, but this was a pretty interesting read:
Electric Car Batteries Lasting Longer Than Predicted Delays Recycling Programs (forbes.com) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2022/08/01/electric-car-batteries-lasting-longer-than-predicted-delays-recycling-programs/?sh=169768fb5332)

A good read, and true - my MINI's battery is expected to last 20+ years, not sure what usable capacity it will have by then, but probably the 60-70% the article mentions.

We have a 2012 Lexis CT200h (this is a hybrid, not a fully electric vehicle, although it does have an EV mode you can turn on for city driving) and I just did a battery tester / estimator not too long ago. The battery came back at about 74% IIRC. So that is about 11-12yrs after manufacturing and over 100k miles.

I have a cousin that buys a new Prius every 5 years (100-130k miles) and passes the old one along to the next oldest kid. So she has gone through at least three Priuses in the past 15 years, and neither she nor her kids have had any issue with any of the batteries even on the one that has around 230k miles the last time I asked about it a couple years ago. Again, these are Hybrids, not the EV models, and the battery tech is somewhat different, but battery cycles would likely be higher on a Hybrid than an EV.

Great article by Motor Trend:

You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars (https://www.motortrend.com/features/truth-about-electric-cars-ad-why-you-are-being-lied-to/)
Science has repeatedly shown EVs are better for humans, despite the meme you just retweeted.

Just a lot of limitations at this point, still. And they won’t be solved any time soon.

Just a lot of limitations at this point, still. And they won’t be solved any time soon.

which limitations specifically are you referring to?

Winter is coming: The 'best country in the world' is planning to ban electric cars amid the energy crisis. Is it time to revisit oil stocks? Here are 3 bi⁷g plays
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/winter-coming-best-country-world-230000360.html

Winter is coming: The 'best country in the world' is planning to ban electric cars amid the energy crisis. Is it time to revisit oil stocks? Here are 3 bi⁷g plays
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/winter-coming-best-country-world-230000360.html

That's not really a fair headline to electric vehicles, they are targeting everything that consumes energy. A better headline would be "Switzerland discovers it is still highly dependent on Russian oil and gas".

That's not really a fair headline to electric vehicles, they are targeting everything that consumes energy. A better headline would be "Switzerland discovers it is still highly dependent on Russian oil and gas".

It sounds like you have some familiarity with Swiss energy/electricity. How dependant is Switzerland on Russian gas and oil? I don't believe they are a NATO or EU member so what stops them from purchasing Russian energy?

It sounds like you have some familiarity with Swiss energy/electricity. How dependant is Switzerland on Russian gas and oil? I don't believe they are a NATO or EU member so what stops them from purchasing Russian energy?

All I know is that they get their gas from hubs in Europe and there is a good amount of energy from Nuclear power imported from France. As much as they claim to be neutral, at the end of the day its in their best interest to be on good terms with the European Union.

It sounds like you have some familiarity with Swiss energy/electricity. How dependant is Switzerland on Russian gas and oil? I don't believe they are a NATO or EU member so what stops them from purchasing Russian energy?Most of Europe depends on Russian oil/gas. It's been all over the news for the last many months that all of Europe, NATO or not, have combined to not purchase Russian oil/gas.

Most of Europe depends on Russian oil/gas. It's been all over the news for the last many months that all of Europe, NATO or not, have combined to not purchase Russian oil/gas.
I don't think you are accurate witb your info. The link says otherwise. EU is still buying it, let alone all of Europe.
The EU has been trying to cut back on Russian oil, but it's still buying more of it than anyone else
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/the-eu-is-still-the-largest-buyer-of-russian-fossil-fuels-2022-10

I don't think you are accurate witb your info. The link says otherwise. EU is still buying it, let alone all of Europe.
The EU has been trying to cut back on Russian oil, but it's still buying more of it than anyone else
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/the-eu-is-still-the-largest-buyer-of-russian-fossil-fuels-2022-10They've been cutting back and most of Europe has plans to cut off completely by the end of the year. There are pieces almost daily on NPR about it.
And here's a CNN story from May:
https://www.bing.com/fd/ls/GLinkPing.aspx?IG=FF7E660488154819BAD3E9FC0EC22BB9&&ID=SERP,5162.1&SUIH=0YvoKAyzjcwDhLbBkUTG_g&redir=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY25uLmNvbS8yMDIyLzA1LzMwL2Vu ZXJneS9ldS1ydXNzaWFuLW9pbC9pbmRleC5odG1s

Things in Europe are about to get hella expensive. Having to get oil from elsewhere, increasing fuel and other transport costs, including figuring out where the difference will come from.

Some EV manufacturers are starting to employ a sales model where you buy or lease the car, then pay a monthly lease for the battery pack.

I can see this becoming popular as then you never have to worry about batteries degrading or needing to be replaced. The lease of the pack would cover all that.

I'm sure there will be extended warranty offers by third parties as well.


It's safe to say that buying and owning a car is going to look quite different than in the ICE era.

I believe VinFast (Vietnam) is proposing the rent the battery model. I found this article interesting:

https://jalopnik.com/vinfast-vf8-electric-car-first-drive-not-ready-for-u-s-1849892217

For all the crap that Elon Musk pulls, you can't deny that he has built a legit car company. Where you can buy a car today and charge it all over America. I continue to read article after article about charging problems at Electrify America, etc.

Hard to believe that the Tesla Model S was sold in 2012. Ten years on, it sure feels like buying an EV is an early adopter situation. Especially for someone who needs more than 5 seats for travel.....

^

It underscores what I've been saying for a while: car builders are moving from the heaviest of heavy industries with huge barriers to entry, to more of a tech model where startups and new Chinese, Vietnamese and Korean makers may be the dominant players.

The battery packs will continue to be developed by 3rd parties that newish tech companies can then include in their product. There is going to be tons more emphasis on software than anything else, especially as things move to autonomous driving. And it's just a matter of time before the antiquated dealership network is scrapped or at least largely bypassed.

The result is going to be far more competition in the auto market, which is going to be great for consumers. It's probably going to end up being like electronics in that sense.


It's by far the biggest revolution in automobiles since the Model T. Everything before seems like incremental change by comparison.

Really a huge thing would be a regulation to standardize publicly available chargers. We have standard size nozzles for diesel and gas pumps. Imagine if you could only fill up a Chevy at a Chevy pump and not a Ford pump, etc.

I’m not huge on adding regulations needlessly but this is an area where the public stands a huge benefit, and if the car companies aren’t going to settle on a standard charging setup then the government will need to intervene at some point IMHO.

This would also probably help kick in to gear some charging stations at regular gas stations. If they can invest in a few chargers that will work across the spectrum they may be more likely to, (instead of just sticking with one brand or type) especially the OnCue, QT, etc type gas stations that have sit down food available. They may be more likely to install chargers because then you will go inside to eat while “filling up”.

Really a huge thing would be a regulation to standardize publicly available chargers. We have standard size nozzles for diesel and gas pumps. Imagine if you could only fill up a Chevy at a Chevy pump and not a Ford pump, etc.

I’m not huge on adding regulations needlessly but this is an area where the public stands a huge benefit, and if the car companies aren’t going to settle on a standard charging setup then the government will need to intervene at some point IMHO.

Personally, I got screwed by this last week - Francis Energy chargers worked fine on the way down to Dallas and back after I got their app. Then they changed their app/platform and I got errors from 5 different chargers at the McDonald's on the Turner Turnpike. Couldn't charge, tech couldn't tell me what was going on, had to use a level 1 charger for 3 hours at a Hampton Inn to get enough charge to get back home. They said it was a payment processing problem when I emailed them (it wasn't). Turns out that if I had deleted the payment method and created a new one, it would've worked (I tested that and it did work).

As you said, charging should be like fueling up - all you should need is a charger, an EV, and a credit/debit card.

Lots of valuable information here. A few years ago I wouldn't have considered getting an EV. The house is paid off in January. Now the more I learn about EVs we might look at one without a mortgage payment.

The press can tout EV's all they want, but driving around OKC, all I see is new convenience store with (gas) fuel sales....

As much as I would love to have one, I haven't heard of anybody that uses it for their primary car, with a family larger than 4 people....

BTW, Tesla is allowing non-Tesla's to charge in Europe and will do so soon in the US. They will have an adaptor for the charger. With their tremendous advantage with their supercharger network, I don't know why they aren't the default.

The press can tout EV's all they want, but driving around OKC, all I see is new convenience store with (gas) fuel sales....

As much as I would love to have one, I haven't heard of anybody that uses it for their primary car, with a family larger than 4 people....

BTW, Tesla is allowing non-Tesla's to charge in Europe and will do so soon in the US. They will have an adaptor for the charger. With their tremendous advantage with their supercharger network, I don't know why they aren't the default.

There are currently 3 charging plug setups in the US - Kia/Nissan, Tesla, and everybody else. Should be one standard, ridiculous the way it is now, but the Tesla news is good.

The press can tout EV's all they want, but driving around OKC, all I see is new convenience store with (gas) fuel sales....

As much as I would love to have one, I haven't heard of anybody that uses it for their primary car, with a family larger than 4 people....

BTW, Tesla is allowing non-Tesla's to charge in Europe and will do so soon in the US. They will have an adaptor for the charger. With their tremendous advantage with their supercharger network, I don't know why they aren't the default.

Related article. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla-open-sources-its-connector-to-take-on-CCS-with-half-the-size-twice-the-power-North-American-Charging-Standard.668196.0.html

A standard will eventually come. Heck the EU is finally forcing Apple to ditch their proprietary chargers and switch to USB type C by 2024. At least Tesla is moving in the right direction already.

On a related note, I have this crazy theory that one of the things behind the "Super C Store" craze is Big Oil planning for the future. Just like we aren't going to be 90% electric cars in 10 years, we aren't going to be 90 gasoline in 30. If they can make food, beer and car washing a critical part of everyday driving and fueling, they can be positioned at the forefront of the electric charging biz.

I think it has more to do with fast food continuing to get more expensive and unrealiable. It’s very easy to spend $10-$15 and wait 20 minutes from joining the line to pulling out with your (hopefully correct) order. If I can pull into Kum and Go, get a drink and a cheap hot dog and bag of chips to hold me over until dinner and be in and out in 5 minutes and only spend a few bucks it is a no brained versus the “fast” food gamble.

On a related note, I have this crazy theory that one of the things behind the "Super C Store" craze is Big Oil planning for the future. Just like we aren't going to be 90% electric cars in 10 years, we aren't going to be 90 gasoline in 30. If they can make food, beer and car washing a critical part of everyday driving and fueling, they can be positioned at the forefront of the electric charging biz.

The margins on prepared food are way better than the margins on gas or anything else they sell in the store. I’m a bit surprised that OnCue hasn’t tried to hit that angle a little harder (a la Sheetz or WaWa).

On a related note, I have this crazy theory that one of the things behind the "Super C Store" craze is Big Oil planning for the future. Just like we aren't going to be 90% electric cars in 10 years, we aren't going to be 90 gasoline in 30. If they can make food, beer and car washing a critical part of everyday driving and fueling, they can be positioned at the forefront of the electric charging biz.

But big oil is not behind "Super C Stores". In a lot of ways, OnCue couldn't care less about big oil, in fact the higher the oil price the worse they probably do.

Just look at QT expanding to *checks notes* the ur.. *checks notes again* yes, that's rig...wait, no that can't be correct *checks notes one last time* Seriously?! The urgent care business????!!!!!

I think that tells us how much C Stores are trying to diversify away from gasoline.

But big oil is not behind "Super C Stores". In a lot of ways, OnCue couldn't care less about big oil, in fact the higher the oil price the worse they probably do.

Just look at QT expanding to *checks notes* the ur.. *checks notes again* yes, that's rig...wait, no that can't be correct *checks notes one last time* Seriously?! The urgent care business????!!!!!

I think that tells us how much C Stores are trying to diversify away from gasoline.

Except I believe one of oncues biggest investor is Phillips 66

^That is correct

Except I believe one of oncues biggest investor is Phillips 66

Big oil is generally investing in alternative energy and diversifying.

New tax credits for 2023 but lots of restrictions. Not sure I understand the income/price restriction if the goal is to encourage people to drive EVs. I would consider getting an EV next year but won't qualify for the credit. I also don't see where a business would qualify. Glad to see it includes used vehicles though

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/2023-electric-vehicle-tax-credit-questions/

I think the goal of the price restriction is to try and bring down the cost of EVs in general. By having price restrictions, there should be a customer push for cars within those price ranges.
As for the income restrictions, I am not as sure, maybe so the market of reasonably priced cars is focused on those that would normally buy in that price range instead of people "buying down" or something?

Germany has started experimenting with highways that actually recharge EV's as you drive.

The tech is similar to wireless chargers for cell phones.

It's very early of course, but the idea is that cars would need much smaller and lighter battery packs because the vehicles would be continuously recharging.


It's going to be fascinating to see where all this is headed.

Germany has started experimenting with highways that actually recharge EV's as you drive.

The tech is similar to wireless chargers for cell phones.

It's very early of course, but the idea is that cars would need much smaller and lighter battery packs because the vehicles would be continuously recharging.


It's going to be fascinating to see where all this is headed.

Don't the street cars use something similar, when they are off the catenary lines that are some in ground charging places?

Don't the street cars use something similar, when they are off the catenary lines that are some in ground charging places?

not ours

Yeah, the way our streetcar system works is it uses the catenary lines to recharge batteries for power in the areas without the wires.

ANALYSIS: Stillwater residents may struggle to take full advantage of EV tax credit

https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/analysis-residents-may-struggle-to-take-full-advantage-of-ev-tax-credit/article_f2876948-8703-11ed-8812-378e9cd40ead.html

Speaking of ev tax credit... More Tesla issues. Edmond woman screwed out of 7500.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/kfor.com/news/local/telsa-shipping-error-could-cost-edmond-woman-thousands/amp/

New tax credits for 2023 but lots of restrictions. Not sure I understand the income/price restriction if the goal is to encourage people to drive EVs. I would consider getting an EV next year but won't qualify for the credit. I also don't see where a business would qualify. Glad to see it includes used vehicles though

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/2023-electric-vehicle-tax-credit-questions/

The income restriction was put in to mollify Manchin who would not support the bill otherwise.

The income restriction was put in to mollify Manchin who would not support the bill otherwise.

More great PR for Tesla. Not like their stock and image have taken a hit this year, thanks to their owner, mainly.

It seems that one of the most difficult parts of participating in an on-line forum is in sticking to the topic of the individual threads.

With that in mind I thought it would be interesting to see how a conversation progressed without the topic being central to the discussion and just see where things go on the own momentum...like a normal conversation does.

So I'll get it started with this.

Every legacy automobile company has now tipped at least a toe into the EV market. Some dove in head first without even checking how deep the water is. Personally, I don't think the EV market is very deep and see it as nothing more than a nich market, that is rapidly becoming over crowded.

This leads me to ask 2 questions. 1) Which legacy manufacturer will abandon the EV market first. 2) Which EV manufacturer will be the first to build a car with an internal combustion engine?

Ford recently announced that they lost $2 billion last year on their EV operations and expect to lose $3 billion this year. They don't project a profit for several more years. Due to investor criticism Ford has changed their financial reporting model to single out profit/loss by business unit. This has made them the only legacy manufacturer that publicized the losses on EVs.

Since then Ford has come under pressure to spin off their EV production into its own company. I think Ford will do that and become the first legacy company to abandon EV.

Conversely, I think it will only be a matter of time before the first EV manufacturer introduces a gasoline engine into their offerings. I just don't know which one that might be.

EV's are a long way away from being practical to the average consumer. Sorry, but a Ford 150 lighting and electric mustang SUV is not practical other than being a status symbol. If someone cares about the environment that much buy a smaller car. It will be interesting to see how well Tesla truck does.

I don't really see electric car companies getting into ICE's because they don't know anything about that market and would have a hard time competing with the traditional car companies.

Its sounds crazy, but the company most likely to build ICE vehicle would be Tesla in the form of a methane powered car. SpaceX is going to be switching to methane engines when Starship goes into service. To do this at the scale they want to accomplish, they need to scrub methane it out of the air to make liquid methane. That endeavor will be involve a lot of infrastructure and perhaps excess methane? So there is an argument that can be made that methane ICE's can be 'Eco-friendly'.

I don't know if the actual owners of EVs are all that interested in the actual environmental effects of EV, because they are no better for the environment than any other car - and in many cases they are worse. I think it is more of a status symbol for the actual owners because there are no other tangible benefits worth the cost.

EV manufacturers are going to have the same challenges every other manufacture has, and that is in generating growth. At some point the company is going to reach saturation, then where does growth come from? The first obvious place for EV manufacturers is gasoline engines.

Imagine the growth potential if Tesla came out with a hybrid

I don't know if the actual owners of EVs are all that interested in the actual environmental effects of EV, because they are no better for the environment than any other car - and in many cases they are worse.

This is demonstrably false.

You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars (https://www.motortrend.com/features/truth-about-electric-cars-ad-why-you-are-being-lied-to/)
Science has repeatedly shown EVs are better for humans, despite the meme you just retweeted.

Many are confusing the idea of new vehicle manufacturing vs. vehicle ownership. They are two completely different things.

ICE cars will be with us -- and probably even in the majority -- as long as any of us live. There are almost 300 MILLION vehicles in the U.S. right now and virtually all of them have internal combustion engines. And modern cars last a very long time, so those 300 million are not going anywhere anytime soon.

But absolutely every current auto manufacturer will be making and selling EV's in the majority by 2030 -- some exclusively.

EV cars are already very practical in a household that has more than one car. Even the most basic get close to 200 miles in range and you are completely ready to go if you just plug it in overnight. Some are already approaching 500 miles. It will be like computer innovation and will lead to rapid improvements. It's far easier to plug in a car in your garage than to drive to a gas station and deal with pumps and lines.

But in the meantime, if you have range anxiety just have one of your vehicles remain ICE and drive that on long trips. I personally don't drive more than 200 miles a day but maybe once or twice a year.


ICE cars will continue to be popular in the U.S. for a very long time but adoption will be faster in Europe and Asia -- it already is. Those continents weren't built on the oil and gas industry like we were/are and are far denser. And for long trips many take trains, an option we don't really have here.

Every big automaker sells its products globally, including those based here. So none of them are going to drop EV's ever, unless they cease to exist as a company.

I can't believe that any pure EV maker will move into the ICE area. The closest thing I could see would be some sort of hybrid ala the new Corvette E-Ray. I also don't see any legacy auto maker abandon EV's completely. There's too much PR and goodwill involved even if the money isn't immediately there. Also, most car makers would like to be able to do business in California past 2035.

I don't think they are that far from being practical to the average customer.

The average driver in the US drives around 420miles per month to and from work. That is roughly 100mi/wk which is comfortably within the range of every electric car on the market as far as I am aware. All it would take is getting people used to topping off their car when they get home, over night, or every few days - just like we plug in our phones/ear buds/watches to recharge we can pretty easily learn to do the same with our cars.

The only exception to whom electric cars wouldn't be practical are those that routinely travel long distances, exceeding the battery capacity, every day. That would require daily mid-commute recharge which could become an issue for some people. Also, they would not be practical for traditional models of road trips - but newer models for planning and recharge locations being more conveniently located near intermediate destinations could alleviate this concern.

I really don't think any EV will fully get into an ICE car. Maybe fuel cells as supplemental power / emergency power - but not as a primary source of locomotion.

I don't think any company will completely abandon the electric car market. Even if Ford spun off their electric business, they would likely still maintain ownership and/or control. And probably wouldn't want to rename / remarket the Electric F150 since the F150 has such high name recognition.