Or hotels where someone with a slow-charging car hogs the charging station all night long....

That would probably be a level 2 charging station (220-240v), which are slow (takes 4 hours or so for it to charge my MINI from empty to full, I have one installed in my garage). I believe Francis and most of the public chargers are level 3 (which will charge my MINI from empty to full in about 40 minutes (I have yet to test/time that, since my charging module was faulty and just now got replaced), and it'd probably take double that for a regular EV with a 300 mile range).

Or hotels where someone with a slow-charging car hogs the charging station all night long.


I'm going to have to buy a new car in the next few years and still not sure if an EV will be right for me given the charging infrastructure.

Even with the longest range, on a long road trip there are plenty of scenarios where you limp into a charging station and get behind people that are taking hours. I will be embarking on another long driving trip through the Midwest at the end of the summer and was checking out the reality of my desired route, and it stressed me out to think about taking that ride in an EV.

Things are changing and rapidly, but not sure of the timing for when we hit a tipping point. I hope within 2-3 years taking a long trip anywhere in the U.S. would be stress-free.

If I was doing just one road trip a year I would have an EV then just rent a car. That was always our plan if we went to all EV. But we will most likely have one gas and one electric for the future.

If I was doing just one road trip a year I would have an EV then just rent a car. That was always our plan if we went to all EV. But we will most likely have one gas and one electric for the future.

I've thought about that too but when you are already paying a ton of money for a new (EV) car, I would have a hard time stomaching the additional expense and hassle to drive a rental car that likely won't be as nice as the one sitting home while you are paying for it. Not to mention, the significantly higher fuel price of a rental car on the only long trips you take.

And it's not just long road trips. Almost no EV can make it to Dallas and back without a charge or maybe two or three. That's a roundtrip I've made in the same day more than once.

A plug-in hybrid might be the way to go since most drives are short in nature and you can cover most of them in pure electric mode. But PHEV's are all on back-order and when you do the math, the price premium will never offset the fuel savings.

For me and most others, it's still too early to make such a huge purchase. It's not like a PC or TV you can just junk in favor of the latest and greatest. Cars are already among the most rapidly depreciating large asset you can buy and for the foreseeable future, EV's will be even worse in that regard.

It's very different in a two-car household, but that's not my situation. Unless things change rapidly in the next 2-3 years, I'll probably buy another ICE car. And I am the walking definition of an Early Adopter.

I've thought about that too but when you are already paying a ton of money for a new (EV) car, I would have a hard time stomaching the additional expense and hassle to drive a rental car that likely won't be as nice as the one sitting home while you are paying for it. Not to mention, the significantly higher fuel price of a rental car on the only long trips you take.

And it's not just long road trips. Almost no EV can make it to Dallas and back without a charge or maybe two or three. That's a roundtrip I've made in the same day more than once.

A plug-in hybrid might be the way to go since most drives are short in nature and you can cover most of them in pure electric mode. But PHEV's are all on back-order and when you do the math, the price premium will never offset the fuel savings.

For me and most others, it's still too early to make such a huge purchase. It's not like a PC or TV you can just junk in favor of the latest and greatest. Cars are already among the most rapidly depreciating large asset you can buy and for the foreseeable future, EV's will be even worse in that regard.

It's very different in a two-car household, but that's not my situation. Unless things change rapidly in the next 2-3 years, I'll probably buy another ICE car. And I am the walking definition of an Early Adopter.

Yes different situations for everyone! My aunt lives in Dallas and drives a Model Y here to visit and only has to charge here once then can make it back home. But those are pretty expensive for an EV. Prices will come down and range will normalize. Toyota is developing some new battery tech that could start get better numbers (probably won't see that for another 10 years).

Leasing an EV might be an option for me, due to the fact a huge percentage of my driving is related to this business and I can write that off on my taxes. If you own a car, you can only claim a set $/mile amount.

There are all types of new lease arrangements for EV's, including the ability to keep swapping for new models.

But I take great care of my cars and keep them for a long time; I've had my current vehicle for over 19 years and it has been completely paid off for 18 of them.

I've never liked the idea of a lease and even with the tax benefits, total ownership costs would be much more than a purchase; I have spreadsheets where I've done all the analysis. I also firmly believe EV's will depreciate much more rapidly than ICE cars until we reach some sort of plateau in battery technology.

...

And it's not just long road trips. Almost no EV can make it to Dallas and back without a charge or maybe two or three. That's a roundtrip I've made in the same day more than once. ...

We're planning on taking the MINI to Dallas in Sep to see Roxy Music, not sure where we're stopping on the way there to charge (or where we're charging in Dallas - concert's at AA Center, hotel is the Marriott next to it), but on the way back, we're stopping at Smokin' Joes and will charge around there.

Confirmed, in my Francis proposal it is level 3 chargers

And it's not just long road trips. Almost no EV can make it to Dallas and back without a charge or maybe two or three. That's a roundtrip I've made in the same day more than once.

When my college best friend visits OKC from Temple, TX (south of DFW, almost to Austin) with his Tesla, he stops once in I think Denton to supercharge.

I've thought about that too but when you are already paying a ton of money for a new (EV) car, I would have a hard time stomaching the additional expense and hassle to drive a rental car that likely won't be as nice as the one sitting home while you are paying for it. Not to mention, the significantly higher fuel price of a rental car on the only long trips you take.

And it's not just long road trips. Almost no EV can make it to Dallas and back without a charge or maybe two or three. That's a roundtrip I've made in the same day more than once.

A plug-in hybrid might be the way to go since most drives are short in nature and you can cover most of them in pure electric mode. But PHEV's are all on back-order and when you do the math, the price premium will never offset the fuel savings.

For me and most others, it's still too early to make such a huge purchase. It's not like a PC or TV you can just junk in favor of the latest and greatest. Cars are already among the most rapidly depreciating large asset you can buy and for the foreseeable future, EV's will be even worse in that regard.

It's very different in a two-car household, but that's not my situation. Unless things change rapidly in the next 2-3 years, I'll probably buy another ICE car. And I am the walking definition of an Early Adopter.

more and more new charging stations are starting to charge for charging as well ..

more and more new charging stations are starting to charge for charging as well ..

Pretty much all level 3 charging stations charge something, and I've read prices vary widely between companies. And the Francis chargers are better maintained and work more often than Electrify America's (sounds like they're the most widespread).

As far as charging time. Over the years of cars existing racing has created lots of technology that eventually makes it to street cars. There have been lots of articles lately about the major racing bodies working on developing charging systems that charge from almost dead to full in minutes. Hopefully they make this work and it can trickle down without the chargers drawing so much current from the grids that they're not feasible for street cars.

As far as charging time. Over the years of cars existing racing has created lots of technology that eventually makes it to street cars. There have been lots of articles lately about the major racing bodies working on developing charging systems that charge from almost dead to full in minutes. Hopefully they make this work and it can trickle down without the chargers drawing so much current from the grids that they're not feasible for street cars.

The other part of that is the car battery system has to be able to accept that kind of huge charge multiple times over its lifetime without degrading the battery lifespan.

I like the idea of moving to a standard battery shape/size, where you would pull into the charging station swap out your battery, very much like a propane tank exchange, and then you are on your way in 10 or 15 minutes.

Have long wished there were two battery banks in an electric car, the main, non-removable one and a removable auxiliary one with shorter range (~20 miles maybe) that could be swapped to "get you home in a pinch", where you would recharge in full. Basically when your "low gas" light would come on in a gas car (in my experience that has meant you have 20-40 miles left depending on the vehicle), that's this second battery, your "warning reserve",

Here's a video of battery swapping happening for an electric scooter. No reason this couldn't be the case for electric cars, too. Frustrating they're not doing it.
https://twitter.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1546788959568609280 (references gogoro.com)

Have long wished there were two battery banks in an electric car, the main, non-removable one and a removable auxiliary one with shorter range (~20 miles maybe) that could be swapped to "get you home in a pinch", where you would recharge in full. Basically when your "low gas" light would come on in a gas car (in my experience that has meant you have 20-40 miles left depending on the vehicle), that's this second battery, your "warning reserve",

Here's a video of battery swapping happening for an electric scooter. No reason this couldn't be the case for electric cars, too. Frustrating they're not doing it.
https://twitter.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1546788959568609280 (references gogoro.com)

Even the newest version of Lime scooters has swappable battery packs. It is crazy to me that scooter companies are just now doing this. No more collecting heavy and awkward scooters at the end of their battery life around the city. The only time to do that is for other maintenance.

I like the idea of moving to a standard battery shape/size, where you would pull into the charging station swap out your battery, very much like a propane tank exchange, and then you are on your way in 10 or 15 minutes.

Though that is basically getting into a different ownership model, the battery is a significant portion of the value of the car, and swapping will likely change your max range.

The other part of that is the car battery system has to be able to accept that kind of huge charge multiple times over its lifetime without degrading the battery lifespan.
Of course. But with the way battery technology has advanced in the past I can see this being overcome before too long.

EVOK - Oklahoma's Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Program (https://oklahoma.gov/evok.html)

Details of OK's plan for the National Electric Vehicle Formula Program that was in the infrastructure bill earlier this year.

I’m glad to see hydrogen being part of this plan. I’m more interested in that than EVs but there are hardly any stations from what I saw outside of California.

Press release:

***********

EVOK Update
ODOT submits National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure plan for review, public comment

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation has completed its Oklahoma’s Electric Infrastructure Deployment Plan as part of the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) Formula Program through the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. The EV Plan is posted at Oklahoma.gov/evok and is available to review and provide comments through Sept. 9, 2022:

https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/evok/documents/Oklahoma_NEVI_Plan.pdf


Under the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure program, Oklahoma will be receiving $66 million during the course of five years to improve and expand the statewide network of electric vehicle charging stations. The funds from the NEVI program must first be applied to installing charging stations along the alternative fuel corridors within Oklahoma’s interstates and highways.

Once these charging stations have been evaluated and are operational, the remaining NEVI funds will become discretionary. Stakeholders and community members can provide input on the plan and how these discretionary funds should be allocated. To leave comments: https://tinyurl.com/EVOKPLAN.

Great article with some interesting graphics from Motor Trend:

Electric Vehicles Are Way, Way More Energy-Efficient Than Internal Combustion Vehicles (https://www.motortrend.com/news/evs-more-efficient-than-internal-combustion-engines/)

I’m leaning towards an electric mini like what Travelers had for city driving as it seems small and east to navigate in larger cities like LA or OKC but I want a four door. I’m also considering Fiat 500e if I go the cheaper route. I rented a Tesla and it was fun but for the price idk

Rivian and other premium electric vehicle makers were scrambling last week to sell or at least get binding contracts in place before The Inflation Reduction Act is signed into law. I got an email from Rivian asking for a signed agreement and a $100 non-refundable deposit ($900 refundable) to preserve the $7,500 tax credit.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/energy-environment/automakers-electric-vehicles-biden-signs-bill

I would love to go electric but I make a few long trips in a year and not sure I'm ready to plan those trips around charging stations and time it takes to charge. I like the ideal of having two cars one gas for the long haul trips and one electric just for driving around town. My current gas one is paid off and only 7 years old so I could do something like that but I know many Americans probably wouldn't be able too.

https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2020/08/GettyImages-1227729200-1024x682.jpg
Oklahoma will receive $27 million in federal funding intended to help schools and other organizations acquire electric buses.--Journal Record--October 27, 2022

I am beginning to see more and more Francis Energy chargers around town. First saw one in Davis, OK on I-35, saw one in MWC on Douglas in a strip shopping center and then another one a few miles north at the Crest on Douglas. I believe the Oncue at SE 29th and Douglas also have chargers. I don't own an EV but I wonder how the price to charge varies between different chargers....

https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2020/08/GettyImages-1227729200-1024x682.jpg
Oklahoma will receive $27 million in federal funding intended to help schools and other organizations acquire electric buses.--Journal Record--October 27, 2022

This is excellent news. Big vehicle fleets like school buses that nearly always drive a fixed, knowable route are really good choices for an electric transition. You still need some long-range busses for out of town trips, but that's only ever going to be a subset of the total fleet.

^

They also sit from late afternoon until early morning, allowing plenty of time to recharge.

Really, most local transit and delivery vehicles could easily be EV's. You'd think Amazon, UPS, Kroger, etc.... Basically any vehicles that are owned by the company doing local delivery (as opposed to gig-drivers that use their own cars).

This is excellent news. Big vehicle fleets like school buses that nearly always drive a fixed, knowable route are really good choices for an electric transition. You still need some long-range busses for out of town trips, but that's only ever going to be a subset of the total fleet.

Factoring maintaince and such it would be cost efficient to just charter with a private bus company for those infrequent long trips.

^

They also sit from late afternoon until early morning, allowing plenty of time to recharge.

Really, most local transit and delivery vehicles could easily be EV's. You'd think Amazon, UPS, Kroger, etc.... Basically any vehicles that are owned by the company doing local delivery (as opposed to gig-drivers that use their own cars).

I know that Walmart is all over that idea, and I seem to recall seeing information along those lines about Amazon as well.


Factoring maintaince and such it would be cost efficient to just charter with a private bus company for those infrequent long trips.

I'm thinking stuff like Friday night football trips, enough busses to transport the team, the cheerleaders, the band, etc. every other week might be more cost effective to still have a half dozen ICE vehicles.

I am beginning to see more and more Francis Energy chargers around town. First saw one in Davis, OK on I-35, saw one in MWC on Douglas in a strip shopping center and then another one a few miles north at the Crest on Douglas. I believe the Oncue at SE 29th and Douglas also have chargers. I don't own an EV but I wonder how the price to charge varies between different chargers....

I should've kept track on our way down to Dallas, the app keeps track though, so I'll go back in and see. Used their chargers in Davis (twice), at the Border Casino (twice) and once in Purcell. Used EA chargers for free in Denton Wal-Mart parking lot the other two times we charged. Have to say that their tech support was great, even if their chargers didn't always work (just switched to the one next to it and it usually worked).

I should've kept track on our way down to Dallas, the app keeps track though, so I'll go back in and see. Used their chargers in Davis (twice), at the Border Casino (twice) and once in Purcell. Used EA chargers for free in Denton Wal-Mart parking lot the other two times we charged. Have to say that their tech support was great, even if their chargers didn't always work (just switched to the one next to it and it usually worked).

How many times did you have to charge your car per round trip?

I had a model y for a few trips from South OKC to Dallas. Just fast charged once in OKC and once in Dallas. Sort of an outlier though since it is a long range version. Pleasant experience but honestly would hate to do super long road trips.

How many times did you have to charge your car per round trip?

It's a MINI, shortest range (but also cheapest) EV, so lots. Not gonna do that again, too much range anxiety (especially since we were on a deadline going to see Roxy Music that night). Supposed to get 105-120 miles on a full battery, but since you don't really want to be down to 20 miles and the nearest charger be 30 miles away, I erred on the side of caution. Stopped at Davis, Border Casino, and Denton on the way down, same on the way back, but adding Purcell in since we detoured around the construction and that would have gotten us home with 5-6 miles left - way too close for comfort.

Other EVs should be able to make it down there without recharging or maybe only once (as mentioned above). I didn't want to have to deal with charging in Dallas proper, so I wanted to make sure I had enough to get in and out of it before charging again.

It's a MINI, shortest range (but also cheapest) EV, so lots. Not gonna do that again, too much range anxiety (especially since we were on a deadline going to see Roxy Music that night). Supposed to get 105-120 miles on a full battery, but since you don't really want to be down to 20 miles and the nearest charger be 30 miles away, I erred on the side of caution. Stopped at Davis, Border Casino, and Denton on the way down, same on the way back, but adding Purcell in since we detoured around the construction and that would have gotten us home with 5-6 miles left - way too close for comfort.

Other EVs should be able to make it down there without recharging or maybe only once (as mentioned above). I didn't want to have to deal with charging in Dallas proper, so I wanted to make sure I had enough to get in and out of it before charging again.

how long did it take you per charge? personally, i'm curious about buying an ev for my next vehicle (in a few years) and want to understand the ownership experience.

Charging varies wildly based on the charger, batt temperature, etc. On a fast charger like DCFC under good conditions you can go from 30% to 80% in about 30 minutes. Level 2 charging at home from 30% to 80% is close to 5 hours.

In reality you charge every night when you get home and never really think about it. The DCFC are there for road trips and are usually at destinations you can burn 30 minutes or so.

how long did it take you per charge? personally, i'm curious about buying an ev for my next vehicle (in a few years) and want to understand the ownership experience.

The MINI EV is the only one I have ever driven or have experience with and it's kind of an outlier, so bear that in mind. MINI basically says it's meant for a second car to run around the city, and I agree with them. It has a smaller battery than every other EV, which means shorter charging times, but also shorter range.

To go from almost empty to almost full takes about 45-50 minutes. We didn't ever really charge to 100% because when it gets close to full, it starts ramping down the charging and that last 5-8% can take another 15 mins and we didn't need to be at 100% because we charged more often than we needed to.

As for the previous question about cost - turns out the Francis Energy app doesn't keep track of the prices, but doing some calculations, it looks like I paid between $0.50 and close to $1 per kWh, but I charged during the day every time. I think it goes down at night, and there was a $1 session fee too.

As mentioned above, I charge at night using my level 2 charger normally, as I'd imagine most EV owners do. *Our* charging places on that trip weren't great - basically Chickasaw Travel Stops (gas stations with a food place). Got to sit inside at one that had an A&W and eat, and one at Davis was at the Chickasaw Welcome Center where we shopped a bit. The one in Purcell was in an empty parking lot.

The MINI EV is the only one I have ever driven or have experience with and it's kind of an outlier, so bear that in mind. MINI basically says it's meant for a second car to run around the city, and I agree with them. It has a smaller battery than every other EV, which means shorter charging times, but also shorter range.

To go from almost empty to almost full takes about 45-50 minutes. We didn't ever really charge to 100% because when it gets close to full, it starts ramping down the charging and that last 5-8% can take another 15 mins and we didn't need to be at 100% because we charged more often than we needed to.

As for the previous question about cost - turns out the Francis Energy app doesn't keep track of the prices, but doing some calculations, it looks like I paid between $0.50 and close to $1 per kWh, but I charged during the day every time. I think it goes down at night, and there was a $1 session fee too.

As mentioned above, I charge at night using my level 2 charger normally, as I'd imagine most EV owners do. *Our* charging places on that trip weren't great - basically Chickasaw Travel Stops (gas stations with a food place). Got to sit inside at one that had an A&W and eat, and one at Davis was at the Chickasaw Welcome Center where we shopped a bit. The one in Purcell was in an empty parking lot.

But what was the total fee to charge? I understand differing battery capacities, but how much generally does it cost to charge your Mini Cooper EV?

Rivian released lots of new delivery date estimates yesterday and general consensus is they are much longer than prior expectations. For example their prior “expected ‘23 delivery dates” are now a wide window of Jan.-Dec ‘24.

^

They also sit from late afternoon until early morning, allowing plenty of time to recharge.

Really, most local transit and delivery vehicles could easily be EV's. You'd think Amazon, UPS, Kroger, etc.... Basically any vehicles that are owned by the company doing local delivery (as opposed to gig-drivers that use their own cars).
I’m seeing tons of FedEx EVs around LA.

But what was the total fee to charge? I understand differing battery capacities, but how much generally does it cost to charge your Mini Cooper EV?

The only times I've ever used DC Fast Chargers were on this trip to Dallas, and the only ones that I had to pay at were the Francis Energy ones, and here's the breakdown (MINI battery capacity is ~32kWh):

$5.74 - 9.22 kWh
$15.93 - 18.06kWh
$10.92 - 11.02kWh
$13.18 - 12.43kWh
$3.30 - 3.87kWh
$2.74 - 2.71kWh
$3.11 - 3.39kWh
$18.85 - 24.92kWh

All of these included a $1 session fee, and the smaller ones were from a faulty charger that kept disconnecting (I moved to the one next to it eventually).

The MINI EV is the only one I have ever driven or have experience with and it's kind of an outlier, so bear that in mind. MINI basically says it's meant for a second car to run around the city, and I agree with them. It has a smaller battery than every other EV, which means shorter charging times, but also shorter range.

To go from almost empty to almost full takes about 45-50 minutes. We didn't ever really charge to 100% because when it gets close to full, it starts ramping down the charging and that last 5-8% can take another 15 mins and we didn't need to be at 100% because we charged more often than we needed to.

As for the previous question about cost - turns out the Francis Energy app doesn't keep track of the prices, but doing some calculations, it looks like I paid between $0.50 and close to $1 per kWh, but I charged during the day every time. I think it goes down at night, and there was a $1 session fee too.

As mentioned above, I charge at night using my level 2 charger normally, as I'd imagine most EV owners do. *Our* charging places on that trip weren't great - basically Chickasaw Travel Stops (gas stations with a food place). Got to sit inside at one that had an A&W and eat, and one at Davis was at the Chickasaw Welcome Center where we shopped a bit. The one in Purcell was in an empty parking lot.

thanks for the info!

The only times I've ever used DC Fast Chargers were on this trip to Dallas, and the only ones that I had to pay at were the Francis Energy ones, and here's the breakdown (MINI battery capacity is ~32kWh):

$5.74 - 9.22 kWh
$15.93 - 18.06kWh
$10.92 - 11.02kWh
$13.18 - 12.43kWh
$3.30 - 3.87kWh
$2.74 - 2.71kWh
$3.11 - 3.39kWh
$18.85 - 24.92kWh

All of these included a $1 session fee, and the smaller ones were from a faulty charger that kept disconnecting (I moved to the one next to it eventually).

How many total stops did you have for charging?

How many total stops did you have for charging?

7 - 3 on the way down (Davis, Border Casino, Denton) and 4 on the way back (those, plus Purcell). But again - smallest battery and MINI's guess-o-meter (range estimate) is conservative, but I was even more conservative.

7 - 3 on the way down (Davis, Border Casino, Denton) and 4 on the way back (those, plus Purcell). But again - smallest battery and MINI's guess-o-meter (range estimate) is conservative, but I was even more conservative.

It sounds like this is not a good choice for a primary vehicle.
I went to Dallas yesterday from Norman in a Accord(V6).
44 bucks round trip with no fuel stops.

There needs to be a heavy increase in supply to lower prices to where EVs could be affordable enough to be the main cars for most families. But then again, the charging infrastructure isn't there yet. So it is a catch 22.

But EVs and hydrogen cars are the future, so global countries, and the US of course, need to incentivize the production of EVs even further.

^

It's all in progress and momentum is rapidly escalating.

Most automakers are pledging to be EV-only within a decade or two. Plus, there are a ton of start-ups both foreign and domestic that keep coming out of nowhere. Because much fewer moving parts are needed, tech companies can make an immediate impact where the auto industry always had such an incredibly high entry barrier. The industry is moving from being based in the heaviest of heavy industries to more software and tech-oriented. The next car I buy might be from Apple, Sony or a Chinese company.

Lots more entry-level models have started to debut as well. And the infrastructure is being built, it will just take some time primarily because the U.S. is so incredibly spread out. In most other countries, they are further along.


I was planning on a new car in the next couple of years but I might hold out a little longer for all the EV stuff to make another big step forward. I'm a one-car household so I need to wait until an EV can be the only car without stopping every few hours to recharge. I bet in 5 years the EV landscape is going to look completely different than it does today. It reminds of of the early PC era where every couple of years computing power and storage was doubling while prices went lower and lower.

I'm sure Oklahoma will stay behind the curve in adoption because so many people here are loyal to the fossil fuel industry.

But most of the charging infrastructure is funded by the federal gov and private business. And electricity in the state is just about as cheap as anywhere.


This will be fascinating to watch unfold locally.

It sounds like this is not a good choice for a primary vehicle.
I went to Dallas yesterday from Norman in a Accord(V6).
44 bucks round trip with no fuel stops.

Yep, you're absolutely right, and I've mentioned this in a few posts, it's meant as a second car to run around town locally. We took it to Dallas just to see how it would perform, see how charging is, etc. and it's pretty much not going out of OK from now on. Going to Tulsa in December and will probably charge halfway, then once in Tulsa, then halfway again (assuming there are chargers where I want them to be, I haven't researched it yet :)).

While the switch to non fossil fuel vehicles marches forward it will be slow. Manufacturers are commiting to dates in the 2030's but current vehicles remain on the road and are servicable longer than ever. Used to be you were lucky to get 100k in mileage out of a vehicle. Now that is common. Add to the rapid price increases and limited choices folks are keeping what they have.
Plus as noted the land area of the country not only discourages mass transit it also discourages charging stations.

While the switch to non fossil fuel vehicles marches forward it will be slow. Manufacturers are commiting to dates in the 2030's but current vehicles remain on the road and are servicableonger than ever. Used to be you wereucky to get 1ppk in mileage out of a vehicle. Now that is common. Add to the rapid price increases and limited choices fks are keeping what they have.
Plus as noted the land area of the country not only discourages mass transit it also discourages charging stations.

As to your last point - true to an extent, but Francis Energy (an OK company) is planning on putting chargers every 50 miles across middle America, from what I understand. Not every 50 miles on an Interstate, but apparently no matter where you are in middle America (not sure how they define that), you'll never be more than 50 miles away from a charger. Ambitious, hope they can pull it off.

^

Most automakers are pledging to be EV-only within a decade or two.

Wow! Wonder what people who live in apartments will do? ...or people without garages. ...or people who have to park in the street, etc, etc.

Wow! Wonder what people who live in apartments will do? ...or people without garages. ...or people who have to park in the street, etc, etc.

I'm in this boat. My current speculation is hydrogen but I'm open to see what else might come along.

My understanding is that fuel cells never worked in the past because the technology wasn't there yet, but much of the needed technology is the same that has now been developed for EVs in general. That said, the currently used commercial sources for hydrogen are all fossil fuel based, but you still have advantages with the shift. For example, it's much easier to do carbon capture if your fossil fuel consumption is at specific fixed locations as opposed to distributed out to every single ICE car on the road. There's plenty of money going into so-called green hydrogen as well, so we will have to see how that develops over the next decade.

Wow! Wonder what people who live in apartments will do? ...or people without garages. ...or people who have to park in the street, etc, etc.

Where will people tie up their horses once these horseless carriages are going up and down every Main Street from here to dodge city?

Infrastructure lags innovation. As more and more vehicles switch over you will see solutions to those problems present themselves. In new build urban apartment buildings you will see charging stations built in to the parking structures and may even be at your assigned parking space if you have one you pay for. Lower end apartments or building that only have street parking probably won’t have them but more and more other places might such as grocery stores, large employers, and such. People will charge up elsewhere which will spread demand out from overnight hours when renewables aren’t producing as much.

my prediction: in 30ish years, cars will likely drive themselves and people will subscribe to a ride service instead of owning a vehicle. most people won't have to worry about having a place to park or charge their vehicle.

my prediction: in 30ish years, cars will likely drive themselves and people will subscribe to a ride service instead of owning a vehicle. most people won't have to worry about having a place to park or charge their vehicle.

Considering that most cars sit idle 98% of the time, something like this makes a lot of sense. Even more so in cities -- effectively an on-demand taxi service.

I can look out on my culdesac and see 15 cars just sitting there, as they always are.

my prediction: in 30ish years, cars will likely drive themselves and people will subscribe to a ride service instead of owning a vehicle. most people won't have to worry about having a place to park or charge their vehicle.

If I'm being honest, I really hope not. While there are absolutely benefits to a transportation-as-a-service model, in most cases it means higher prices and less control for you. The price issue may be less of a concern or even moot if cities decide to operate these ride services as part of their public transportation network, but even so, I'd want to retain ownership over at least one of my transportation options (i.e. personal vehicle, powered bicycle, etc). I feel similarly about entertainment media - streaming is very convenient but I'm shifting my consumption back toward physical media or DRM-free digital files to ensure I maintain control over the media I've paid for.

my prediction: in 30ish years, cars will likely drive themselves and people will subscribe to a ride service instead of owning a vehicle. most people won't have to worry about having a place to park or charge their vehicle.
Not realistic. Liability/ insurance issues. Number of on call ride service vehicles needed would be problamatic. Nobody boating or camping anymore? No family road trips? I mean c'mon now.

https://www.ocregister.com/wp-content/uploads/migration/lay/laydjj-layddrflyingcar3.jpg?w=879

I'm still waiting for this 65 year old prediction

We're only 40 years away from living like the Jetsons. :cool:

I think the point that most cars aren't being used at any specific point in time somewhat counters the "number of on-call ride services vehicles needed". - You wouldn't need one per person, you would need one for every few people.

I would appreciate it even if my personal car was autonomous - I go to the gym then the office early in the morning, my partner goes to work later in the morning. If once I get to the office, I could send my car home for him to then use to go to work, that would be beneficial.

Also, there are already start-ups for self-driving / autonomous taxi services. Check out Waymo for example. Since these already exist, I wouldn't say they are "not realistic".