Since you're a car nut, you should love the torque and acceleration of EVs (almost scares me sometimes, not quite used to it yet). And just to be clear, I'm not a buy-one-now-they're-great staunch advocate of EVs, it was just pretty much a coincidence that I got mine - car got totaled, no 2-door models that aren't Porsche, BMW, etc. and out of my price range, wife mentioned MINI, I like the styling, and found out they had an electric model, and thought "why not?".
There’s more to enjoying cars than torque and acceleration. EVs feel like a car with no soul.

With that said if I could afford it I’d get a Taycan or the Hummer EV.

There’s more to enjoying cars than torque and acceleration. EVs feel like a car with no soul. ...

I can *kind of* see your point, but I'm a geek, so to me, it just seems like the next step. Dunno if you've ever ridden in a MINI SE (only 2 in OKC, 5-6 in Tulsa, not sure how many in CA), but if you ever want a ride in one whenever you're in town, PM me. Might not change your mind, but it's really just a regular MINI with a slightly different display, it's not very futuristic or weird, just with a display of energy capacity available instead of a tachometer, and battery instead of gasoline gauge. It does make spaceship noises instead of normal car sounds, but as I said, I'm a geek, so it's fine with me...

I can *kind of* see your point, but I'm a geek, so to me, it just seems like the next step. Dunno if you've ever ridden in a MINI SE (only 2 in OKC, 5-6 in Tulsa, not sure how many in CA), but if you ever want a ride in one whenever you're in town, PM me. Might not change your mind, but it's really just a regular MINI with a slightly different display, it's not very futuristic or weird, just with a display of energy capacity available instead of a tachometer, and battery instead of gasoline gauge. It does make spaceship noises instead of normal car sounds, but as I said, I'm a geek, so it's fine with me...
I think they’re cool don’t get me wrong. I’ve actually been considering an Mini EV but I want a four door.

I think they’re cool don’t get me wrong. I’ve actually been considering an Mini EV but I want a four door.

They're coming in a couple of years, I'm betting. They're getting ready to make MINI EVs in China, apparently, not sure if it's the current one, or if they're a whole new set of models (EV versions of current models like my SE is (they're currently only made in Oxford) or completely new EVs).

Such things as handling and driver engagement can easily be accomplished in an electric car.

A car being 'soulless' has much more to do with other technologies like drive-by-wire and car manufacturers that don't compensate for the detached feeling.

I don't believe that even the biggest car nuts would regard the Taycan as soulless, and there will always be carmakers that prioritize driver involvement.

No that’s specifically why I stated I think the Taycan is one of the best cars I’ve ever driven. I just can’t afford one atm or else I’d be all over it.

Such things as handling and driver engagement can easily be accomplished in an electric car.

A car being 'soulless' has much more to do with other technologies like drive-by-wire and car manufacturers that don't compensate for the detached feeling....

Yep, there are various types of traction/whatever control, plus a few other handling modes, and you can pretty much switch it all off in the MINI if you want. Need to try all the options out, was researching how to drive it on snow/ice (have to hit a few switches first) different way of thinking, but at least they give you options.

As I stated before, my MINI's battery is supposed to last ~21 years, it's based on an older style that was used in the i3, haven't actually looked up yet when they started using it to see how long it's lasted so far (I've got another 20.5 years to go before I have anecdotal evidence of my own).

You got lucky with your Lexus, my 2007 Honda Civic had probably a dozen class-action suits and recalls, plus all kinds of little things that broke. But there are *always* oil, coolant, brake, transmission fluid additions/changes for *any* ICE vehicle, not to mention brake pad replacement (or disc resurfacing/replacement). Wife has had to have her ignition coils replaced (2003 Honda), so there are those odd things that happen too. My MINI's maintenance is *literally* add coolant and windshield washer fluid if low - that's it.

As far as stressing out over charging on long trips, there are plenty of level 3 chargers along the interstate system so that you really don't have to stress. Also, apps (not just Tesla's) that tell you where chargers are located, distance to each, etc. let you plan your trip, taking that into consideration.

As far as resale value, I drive all my cars until the wheels fall off (or they get totaled, as has happened twice, neither of them was my fault :)), so I'll probably drive the MINI until it dies. Plan on taking it to Dallas to see Roxy Music in Sep, and already know where the chargers are (the MINI has a range of only about 120 miles, so I have to charge more often than most).

In the interest of accuracy you can't compare the build quality of a Lexus to Civic and claim "you got lucky".

Oil changes are less than $100 / year and I've never had any other type of maintenance other than tires and brakes (which would also have to be maintained on an electric car) in 19 years.

I've done the math. At this point in time, a purely electric car would be far more expensive for me, especially when you consider the purchase price premium vs an ICE car and the massive hit you take at resale.

I tend to keep my cars for a long time, and in my personal situation I am just going to continue to drive my almost free current car and wait for things to evolve a bit more.

I would give it stronger consideration if I had a second car.

Wait, so you've never changed your engine air filter? Cleaned/replaced the AC filter? Flushed your brake system, transmission fluid, or engine coolant? Inspected/replaced drive belts, hoses, exhaust components, suspension components, etc? Checked/adjusted alignment? All things on the required service schedule for your vehicle in your owner's manual? These are all critical components of your vehicle to keep it running in top condition and all have finite lifespans. Most brake fluid is hygroscopic and will slowly absorb moisture from the air (which can cause corrosion and leaks within your braking system - Lexus recommends changing it every 36mo/30k miles), engine coolant contains corrosion inhibitors that degrade with time and temperature (also causing corrosion and leaks within your engine cooling and cabin heating systems - Lexus recommends changing it every 120mo/100k miles), and transmission fluid contains friction modifiers and corrosion inhibitors that also degrade with use/time/temperature (increasing wear on critical internal components that lead to poor performance and failure - Lexus recommends changing it every 60mo/50k miles) - just to name a few examples. If these regular maintenance items are not performed, you set yourself up for catastrophic failure - and I think you're lucky that you haven't yet experienced one yet.

Though truthfully, after typing the above then reading through the rest of the thread, I think you likely have done most or all of these routine maintenance services and just forgot to consider them as "maintenance" - since you did mention air filters at one point, and that you're on your 4th set of brake pads now. And since you're a car guy, you probably already knew about the service intervals and what goes wrong with fluids, but I'm going to leave it in my reply for anyone else reading who may be unaware.

Many of these routine maintenance items simply aren't required anymore - or have a far longer service life in electric vehicles. Brake pads, for instance, are generally expected to last at least 100k miles in EVs - and depending on your vehicle and driving habits, they can last much longer than that. There are multiple reports from Japan of early Toyota Prius and Nissan Leaf models being used as taxis, racking up well over 300k miles and still using the factory-installed brake pads and rotors. Some EV owners actually complain that their rotors actually become rusty and unsightly due to the lack of use, with regenerative braking providing the bulk of the effort to slow the vehicle down. In addition, since there's been question about battery life... for fully electric vehicles, batteries are generally expected to last up to 200k miles of use - up to 15 years - or more. To my knowledge all are warranted for a minimum of 100k miles or 8 years of service life by federal law.

Wait, so you've never changed your engine air filter? Cleaned/replaced the AC filter? Flushed your brake system, transmission fluid, or engine coolant? Inspected/replaced drive belts, hoses, exhaust components, suspension components, etc? Checked/adjusted alignment? All things on the required service schedule for your vehicle in your owner's manual?

I replace my own air filters and you can buy them for a few bucks each.

Had the brake system flushed as part of a brake job. Had the coolant flushed a couple of times.

I could show you my entire maintenance spreadsheet which I've kept since the day I bought it. It still adds up to next to nothing when averaged over 19 years. I *just* had the rotors machined at over 150,000 miles.


Most of those things you mentioned would still be required by an electric car. And you can be 100% certain you'd have to fully replace all the batteries over that same time span, and probably more than once.


Look, I'm all for electric vehicles and I'm sure I'll buy one in a few years. But trying to justify it by cherry-picking a few relatively inexpensive maintenance items while ignoring things on the other side of the equation like the purchase premium, a home charger, incredible depreciation, and battery replacement isn't going to convince anyone who knows about cars.

There are lots of other good reasons to buy one.

What I have gathered from this conversation, cities giving 1200 credit for an e-bike would make sense for many.

Yeah this is the energy density problem renewables have.

There is no zero sum, everything in life has trade offs. The annoying thing (as an O&G/construction guy) about the greenies, is they don't seem to believe that or care.

The amount of land and raw materials it takes to generate the same power a nat gas or nuclear power plant can, renewables is exponentially greater needs land wise.

While renewables will continue to grow, this debate is coming soon. What really is the best use of farmland in Kansas? Growing food and running the electricity via nat gas plants OR covering it with wind and solar? Which shreds birds and causes erosion and soil degradation (solar).

Society is 9 meals away from total collapse.

I did my homework with rooftop solar. The going carbon-neutral aspect of it wasn't my motivator. It was pure dollars and cents, and when I purchase the EV, I won't be paying any more than I pay right now to power my vehicle. The panels I have are guaranteed to produce at 85% efficiency for 25 years at which point, I mean.. who knows how much more advanced solar will be by then. I'll hopefully be able to throw up some new panels on the existing mounts, probably have to replace microinverters too.

I'm lucky enough to have a lot of roof space and a lot of South and West facing roof which gets good sun.

As far as the greenie arguments, solar panels neutralize their carbon footprint after 2-3 years of use, and given they often have a 30+ year life, that seems to be a pretty good tradeoff.

There should be at least equal government incentives to suburban rooftop solar as there are to natural gas plant builds. Of course we'll continue to need natural gas and coal to supplement the grid whenever it's a hot, cloudy day, or even for when a big cloud floats over the city, though there are solar panels in development which produce energy in darker and darker conditions.

The great thing about rooftop solar is that it requires zero additional land use.

In the interest of accuracy you can't compare the build quality of a Lexus to Civic and claim "you got lucky".

Well, he clarified later that it was one full brake job and 2 sets of pads in 19 years, which is reasonable. Is it usual for a Lexus to have nothing wrong with it at all that needed repair in 19 years (not sure how many miles in those 19 years, that's more telling than age, usually)?

Well, he clarified later that it was one full brake job and 2 sets of pads in 19 years, which is reasonable. Is it usual for a Lexus to have nothing wrong with it at all that needed repair in 19 years (not sure how many miles in those 19 years, that's more telling than age, usually)?

180,000 miles.

I had another one before it that I kept for well over 100K miles until some idiot ran into me and totaled it. I never had a full brake job on that car and there was no other maintenance other than tires and oil changes.

And before that, I had an Acura that was pretty much the same.

180,000 miles.

I had another one before it that I kept for well over 100K miles until some idiot ran into me and totaled it. I never had a full brake job on that car and there was no other maintenance other than tires and oil changes.

And before that, I had an Acura that was pretty much the same.

i hit 300k on my last Tahoe and i am over 200 on this one ... minimal maintenance for both and for our family having a smaller vehicle is not preferred

Maybe I'm jaded by having mostly older vehicles my whole life but I've had to replace a large assortment of alternators, starters, crankshaft sensors, timing belts, water pumps, pulleys, tensioners, gaskets, radiators, hoses, spark plugs & filters, ect...

So much maintenance I'm sick of it lol

180,000 miles.

I had another one before it that I kept for well over 100K miles until some idiot ran into me and totaled it. I never had a full brake job on that car and there was no other maintenance other than tires and oil changes.

And before that, I had an Acura that was pretty much the same.

Wife's 2003 Honda is about the same, but she had to replace the timing belt and water pump (surprised you haven't had to do that at 180K miles), and then again when it broke again (found out the ***holes used a counterfeit water pump (but that service doesn't really count :))), and ignition coils in addition to standard maintenance - some Hondas are of decent build quality (the generation that included my 2007 was notorious for being one of the worst generations).

His Lexus probably uses a timing chain, as do most larger vehicles. Those typically never go bad.

But I agree, his luck with vehicles is great. But I think his experience is more of a statistical outlier - I think most people do have a larger maintenance burden often without the luxury of buying new. 2 or 3 owner cars can be a bit of a hassle; but it’s usually what most of us can afford up front.

I buy all my cars new, am very meticulous and my vehicles are always garaged, even when I was working in an office (apart from the short stint at the Gazette at 36th & Shartel).

Starting with my first new car (an Audi 4000 in 1982) I've had almost zero repair issues.


I do want to give Lexus credit. When my current car was well out of warranty, it developed a sizeable crack in the dash and that is the sort of thing I cannot stand. I checked into getting it fixed but it was crazy expensive. After learning this was a common problem in my model, Lexus soon contacted owners and offered to fix the problem for free. I made an appointment and they did a full dash replacement and didn't charge me a dime, and this was in my 10th year of ownership. To this day, the interior still looks new; so does the exterior for that matter. So, very easy just to keep it because it is as close to free to own as any car ever will be.

It was the same for my previous Lexus (until totaled) and the Acura before it.

I *just* had the timing belt replaced out of an abundance of caution but when the mechanic showed me the original, it was still in excellent condition and I could have easily kept going without that precautionary move at around 175K miles.

There are outliers but in general if you do the maintenance in the book when it says to you will have a car that lasts. Any new car I have bought I do it by the book. I have never had a major car issue. I have owned Lexus, Subaru and Mazda. All have performed great for me.

That being said, here in the next five years we are replacing one of our ICE cars with an EV. My wife drives very few miles so it makes sense for our household. So far the Mach-E has my eye but I am sure there will be a ton of new models in 5 years. If you are a city only driver I think EV makes sense. You can surely make them work on long trips, with Tesla being the best right now with their large charging network.

I have a good friend who has several very high end cars but loves his 1999 Toyota Land Cruiser. He has 600000 miles on it and original engine and transmission. He follows the factory maintenance schedule religiously.

Car and Driver just published a comprehensive review of owning a Tesla 3 for 2 years.

What they have to say about maintenance and efficiency is very interesting:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-model-3-reliability-maintenance/

Car and Driver just published a comprehensive review of owning a Tesla 3 for 2 years.

What they have to say about maintenance and efficiency is very interesting:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-model-3-reliability-maintenance/

Pretty standard. Lube the breaks in salty road areas and the tires will wear much faster on EVs because of the weight.

^

Also good info about battery degradation, the effect of cold temps, and the actual cost of charging.

Car and Driver just published a comprehensive review of owning a Tesla 3 for 2 years.

What they have to say about maintenance and efficiency is very interesting:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-model-3-reliability-maintenance/

Some of this appears to be Tesla-specific. Nobody told me the MINI's brake calipers need to be lubricated (but then again, they don't lay down massive salt during the winter here), and the MINI's battery is specifically designed to not be discharged to zero or charged to 100%, it's something like 5 - 95%.

Some of this appears to be Tesla-specific. Nobody told me the MINI's brake calipers need to be lubricated (but then again, they don't lay down massive salt during the winter here), and the MINI's battery is specifically designed to not be discharged to zero or charged to 100%, it's something like 5 - 95%.

It gets pretty battery specific, I was recently reading about Tesla shifting in the last year to a different battery chemistry on most models that saves cost but has somewhat less energy density, though also does not have the same issue with it being optimal keeping the battery between 20%-80% charge and theoretically should not degrade as much per charge cycles.

I'll admit the charging seems dirt cheap right now, but I am afraid we'll, at some point, see residential power prices increase by a factor of 4 or 5. These utilities know that folks can pay $75 for a tank of gas. Why would they let you charge your Tesla for $5? I think they'll figure out some ways to capitalize on that delta.

I'll admit the charging seems dirt cheap right now, but I am afraid we'll, at some point, see residential power prices increase by a factor of 4 or 5. These utilities know that folks can pay $75 for a tank of gas. Why would they let you charge your Tesla for $5? I think they'll figure out some ways to capitalize on that delta.

They'd have to be able to distinguish between the power going to charging and the power going for everything else. I don't see how they could account for that. Especially when so many of us are producing our own power. Even if they required a meter for power going to the car, I could put that on an entirely different meter. I imagine governments are going to start to figure out ways to tax EVs, and it's only right. EVs on the whole are heavier and cause more wear and tear than ICE cars. I'd probably look to pay a mileage fee or some sort of extra annual fee.

They'd have to be able to distinguish between the power going to charging and the power going for everything else. I don't see how they could account for that. Especially when so many of us are producing our own power. Even if they required a meter for power going to the car, I could put that on an entirely different meter. I imagine governments are going to start to figure out ways to tax EVs, and it's only right. EVs on the whole are heavier and cause more wear and tear than ICE cars. I'd probably look to pay a mileage fee or some sort of extra annual fee.

There was an extra fee when I registered my MINI SE here last month (Full Electric Vehicle - $110).

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=26747&p=1202068#post1202068

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=26747&p=1202068#post1202068
I am looking for an e bike for LA commuting. I have several bikes I use recreationally but with the hills and getting sweaty I don’t want to use them for commuting. I’m looking for an e bike for this very purpose as I think it could help. I have biked several times from Edmond to I-240 and Shields. Easy commute other than unfriendly drivers. Still, I wish they’d expand Spokies across the metro along bike paths. Good deal as LA Metro bike share has had e bikes for a few years now.

Yeah this is the energy density problem renewables have.

There is no zero sum, everything in life has trade offs. The annoying thing (as an O&G/construction guy) about the greenies, is they don't seem to believe that or care.

The amount of land and raw materials it takes to generate the same power a nat gas or nuclear power plant can, renewables is exponentially greater needs land wise.

While renewables will continue to grow, this debate is coming soon. What really is the best use of farmland in Kansas? Growing food and running the electricity via nat gas plants OR covering it with wind and solar? Which shreds birds and causes erosion and soil degradation (solar).

Society is 9 meals away from total collapse.

The problem is: Will global warming make farming in Kansas untenable? Your argument may be moot in 20 years if we don’t act, and quickly. And widespread use of pesticides is removing birds and the insects that birds depend upon for food, so shredding birds likely won’t be an issue.

https://time.com/5824295/climate-change-future-possibilities/

I am looking for an e bike for LA commuting. I have several bikes I use recreationally but with the hills and getting sweaty I don’t want to use them for commuting. I’m looking for an e bike for this very purpose as I think it could help. I have biked several times from Edmond to I-240 and Shields. Easy commute other than unfriendly drivers. Still, I wish they’d expand Spokies across the metro along bike paths. Good deal as LA Metro bike share has had e bikes for a few years now.

So you have to... walk to the bike path to get a bike? J/K I know what you mean. But unfortunately spokies is highly underfunded (as is all non-car infra). They just got 53 dockless ebikes which have been placed all over downtown. Meanwhile the old bikes have been pulled so their retrofit kits can be installed so they can all be on the same app since the ebikes were from a different vendor (Drop Mobility) than the old bikes (B Cycle).

Understand what you mean about sweating. I use my ebike for commuting but often use my non-ebike when I'm just piddling around downtown (but have also used it to commute).

I'd probably get a Van Moof if I had it to do all over again, though several others have caught my eye of late. But Van Moofs have the best security (built in GPS) so might be ideal for an LA situation.

The problem is: Will global warming make farming in Kansas untenable? Your argument may be moot in 20 years if we don’t act, and quickly. And widespread use of pesticides is removing birds and the insects that birds depend upon for food, so shredding birds likely won’t be an issue.

https://time.com/5824295/climate-change-future-possibilities/

lol

Car and Driver just published a comprehensive review of owning a Tesla 3 for 2 years.

What they have to say about maintenance and efficiency is very interesting:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-model-3-reliability-maintenance/
Adding to your info about Tesla batteries.
https://www.slashgear.com/857917/replacing-the-battery-pack-on-a-tesla-model-3-costs-more-than-you-think/

The problem is: Will global warming make farming in Kansas untenable? Your argument may be moot in 20 years if we don’t act, and quickly. And widespread use of pesticides is removing birds and the insects that birds depend upon for food, so shredding birds likely won’t be an issue.

https://time.com/5824295/climate-change-future-possibilities/

Almost literally the same statement has consistently been made every year since the 1980s. If we don't act immediately, this will happen in 20 years...or if we don't act, that will all be gone in 10 years...if we don't act the world's going to end in 12 years. 99% of those predictions (fortunately) have not panned out. The alarmism is tiresome and is hurting what otherwise is a good cause.

Also we (the US) are acting, more so than most other countries in the world, especially key offenders like China and India. We have massively reduced our CO2 emmissions but we can't make them hold the same standards we do and we sure as hell should destroy our standard of living to do so.

Links to the statutes, etc. are here:

https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/all?state=OK


So you think people are going to give up cars for a $1200 incentive to get an e-bike? I'm not so sure about that. I'm going to get $7500 back (tax credit) from the federal gov't and $5500 back (tax credit) from the state gov't for purchasing a $30K electric car, not sure why more people wouldn't go *that* route than replace a car with an e-bike. And if you replace a regular bicycle with an e-bike, you'd actually be contributing to climate change instead of trying to fix it, lol....

This says the Oklahoma Alternative Fuel Vehicle (AFV) Tax Credit is only eligible for natural gas and propane. All I see is an additional electric vehicle fee. I'm not sure where you are seeing you will get a $5,500 Oklahoma income tax credit for an electric vehicle purchase.

This says the Oklahoma Alternative Fuel Vehicle (AFV) Tax Credit is only eligible for natural gas and propane. All I see is an additional electric vehicle fee. I'm not sure where you are seeing you will get a $5,500 Oklahoma income tax credit for an electric vehicle purchase.

Ya, Oklahoma definitely doesn't have an EV tax credit.

This says the Oklahoma Alternative Fuel Vehicle (AFV) Tax Credit is only eligible for natural gas and propane. All I see is an additional electric vehicle fee. I'm not sure where you are seeing you will get a $5,500 Oklahoma income tax credit for an electric vehicle purchase.

Yep, you're right, I just skimmed over it, no biggie because I wasn't expecting a state tax credit, it would've just been a nice surprise.

i don't see anything there that clearly indicates that an EV doesn't qualify as an AFV under the state's definition... i'd definitely consult a tax specialist on that as i think you'd be eligible for a $5500 credit from the state.

i don't see anything there that clearly indicates that an EV doesn't qualify as an AFV under the state's definition... i'd definitely consult a tax specialist on that as i think you'd be eligible for a $5500 credit from the state.


Here is a link to the text of the 2019 house bill: https://legiscan.com/OK/text/HB2095/2019

When it describes what vehicles qualify, it says:


2. A motor vehicle originally equipped so that the vehicle may be propelled by a compressed natural gas, or liquefied natural gas or liquefied petroleum gas but only to the extent of the portion of the basis of such motor vehicle which is attributable to the storage of such fuel, the delivery to the engine of such motor vehicle of such fuel, and the exhaust of gases from combustion of such fuel.;

Here is a link to the form the $5,500 credit is claimed on Form 567-A (https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/tax/documents/forms/tax-credits/567-A.pdf). It reiterates the language in the bill above in them middle of the first page.

Also, Tesla's website for state and local EV tax credits (https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives#state-local-and-utility-incentives) doesn't have anything listed for Oklahoma.

And I would agree, this should be verified with a tax advisor but I just can't find anything that says electric vehicles qualify for an Oklahoma income tax credit.

This is a fantastic idea by Subaru and something that holds great appeal to me.

I would love my next car to be electric, but a couple of times a year I take long road trips. Having to plan an entire trip around where to charge would take a lot of fun out of those longer trips.

I hope more automakers realize this is an issue for some and start offering a similar program.


Solterra buyers will qualify for 10 free days use of a loaner vehicle, such as the gas-powered Outback and Forrester models

https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2022/04/subaru-solterra-buyers-to-get-free-loaners-free-energy/

That is a GREAT way to overcome the range objection that many people rightfully have.

Charging infrastructure will never be expedited until EVs make up an appreciable percentage of the national consumer fleet. It’s a classic chicken or egg moment.

I was thinking the other day about the rise of electric vehicles. Currently there are an estimated 1.4 billion vehicles on the planet. What are we going to do with the batteries we no longer can use? That is a lot of batteries. It just seems to be we're going to be dealing with an incredibly awful environmental hazard at some point.

I was thinking the other day about the rise of electric vehicles. Currently there are an estimated 1.4 billion vehicles on the planet. What are we going to do with the batteries we no longer can use? That is a lot of batteries. It just seems to be we're going to be dealing with an incredibly awful environmental hazard at some point.

People just want to "go, go, go" and make these wholesale shifts from gas to electric, and things like this never cross their mind. They are so myopic in their thoughts, that anything other than their viewpoint is seen as wrong.

People just want to "go, go, go" and make these wholesale shifts from gas to electric, and things like this never cross their mind. They are so myopic in their thoughts, that anything other than their viewpoint is seen as wrong.

There is actually a lot of thought that has gone into this, so if you bother to just research it you'll see that. There are entire industries sprouting around the business of recycling and reuse of these batteries, the development of new battery technology to extend life and reduce environmental hazards, etc. This is opposite of being myopic.

I was thinking the other day about the rise of electric vehicles. Currently there are an estimated 1.4 billion vehicles on the planet. What are we going to do with the batteries we no longer can use? That is a lot of batteries. It just seems to be we're going to be dealing with an incredibly awful environmental hazard at some point.

There are battery recyclers/reconditions sprouting up. There's one right here in OKC actually.

https://www.spiersnewtechnologies.com/

There's an excellent episode on the Lt Gov's Innovate That podcast with the company's president that's worth a listen.

17519

Press release:

*************

ODOT seeking public input, hosting virtual meeting on electric vehicle charging plan

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation is hosting a virtual public meeting to present information and get public feedback on Oklahoma’s Electric Vehicle Plan to expand the availability of EV charging stations along major highway corridors through a new federal program.

Oklahoma will receive $66 million in federal funding during the next five years through the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure program to improve and expand its statewide network of EV charging stations. Through public-private partnerships, charging stations will be installed near interstates and other major highways and operated by external partners like truck stops, shopping centers, local governments and tribes.

This virtual meeting and presentation will provide members of the public and transportation stakeholders with a first look at the program and an opportunity to give input on how the funding should be allocated. This includes suggestions for Oklahoma highways and communities that need expanded EV charging capabilities and specific locations for stations.

Oklahoma’s EV Plan Virtual Meeting
Available June 20 through July 5
http://tiny.cc/EVpublicmeeting


The public can visit http://tiny.cc/EVpublicmeeting anytime to view a recorded presentation and to submit comments to ODOT through July 5. There is no in-person meeting scheduled for this program.

Federal guidelines require NEVI program funding to prioritize adding charging stations at least every 50 miles along interstates and other already-designated Alternative Fuel Corridors. These areas include major highway and turnpike corridors like US-69, US-81 and US-412 along the Cimarron and Cherokee turnpikes. Once these corridors in Oklahoma been addressed, the remaining federal funds can be used to build out EV charging infrastructure in other underserved areas.

Questions and comments may be directed to the ODOT Multimodal Division evok@odot.org. Those without internet access may contact the ODOT Multimodal Division by mail at 200 N.E. 21st St., Oklahoma City, OK 73105 to request information or submit a comment.

For more information about Oklahoma’s Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Program, visit https://oklahoma.gov/evok

Unless it's already been done and I've just never noticed, there should be some sort of universal highway symbol for e-charging stations along the highways and generic advertising (if relevant) such as for restaurants, places of interest and hotels.

I think that's coming. We were approached by a vendor to put charging stations in our parking lot (full cost paid by a grant) and they said part of the deal was indicating on the highway exit sign that there was a charging station at our location.

Unless it's already been done and I've just never noticed, there should be some sort of universal highway symbol for e-charging stations along the highways and generic advertising (if relevant) such as for restaurants, places of interest and hotels.

Agreed. Was thinking about this very thing on a recent trip to Phoenix.

Somebody posted a funny photo of a car parked on the street with a very long extension cord running out of a house and across the sidewalk.

I've ranted about the idiocy of leaving your 2nd most valuable physical asset parked outside (at the mercy of the elements and thieves) when almost every home has a large garage.


Maybe the move to electric vehicles will slowly start to get people to clean the crap out of their garages to make room for the chargers and vehicles.

Somebody posted a funny photo of a car parked on the street with a very long extension cord running out of a house and across the sidewalk.

I've ranted about the idiocy of leaving your 2nd most valuable physical asset parked outside (at the mercy of the elements and thieves) when almost every home has a large garage.


Maybe the move to electric vehicles will slowly start to get people to clean the crap out of their garages to make room for the chargers and vehicles.

Hasn’t changed for either of my two neighbors who have teslas! They both have boxes of junk in garage that I have never seen them move in years and the. Have extension cords running out to driveway every night to their cars..

Then they try to cover cars with cardboard when there is hail storms coming.

I just sit watch and laugh.

Unless it's already been done and I've just never noticed, there should be some sort of universal highway symbol for e-charging stations along the highways and generic advertising (if relevant) such as for restaurants, places of interest and hotels.

The proposed 11th Edition of the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices has one:
https://i.imgur.com/Ndd24Q7.png

That is the symbol that the Federal Highway Administration is using in their messaging, too, I just came across this tweet from yesterday with it: https://twitter.com/USDOTFHWA/status/1554584374196174848


To help build out a national network of 500K electric vehicle chargers by 2030, the @USDOT (https://twitter.com/USDOT) and @ENERGY (https://twitter.com/ENERGY) today announced all 50 states, DC and PR have submitted EV infrastructure deployment plans as required under the NEVI Formula Program.

Biden-Harris Administration Announces All 50 States, DC and Puerto Rico Have Submitted Plans for National Electric Vehicle Charging Network (https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/biden-harris-administration-announces-all-50-states-dc-and-puerto-rico-have-submitted)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZL-K29XoAcgltn?format=jpg&name=small

Somebody posted a funny photo of a car parked on the street with a very long extension cord running out of a house and across the sidewalk.

I've ranted about the idiocy of leaving your 2nd most valuable physical asset parked outside (at the mercy of the elements and thieves) when almost every home has a large garage.


Maybe the move to electric vehicles will slowly start to get people to clean the crap out of their garages to make room for the chargers and vehicles.
I have to admit to parking my Elantra outside. But it's because the wife's Jeep is inside so she doesn't have to be outside to get in it. And my Miata is inside because I've never had the top up and the plan is to never put it up. We do watch weather and leave the Jeep out and pull mine in if there's any chance of hail. It does bother me the number of people who have completely empty garages or garages that are so full of ? and the cars sit outside.

Francis Energy, an OK company, is building out a network of chargers every 50 miles across middle America. This will be helpful to me since my MINI only has a range of ~110 miles (I drive it mainly around the city, but this gives me the option of traveling further without too much range anxiety).

https://francisenergy.com/

I have a proposal on my desk from Francis Energy for charging stations at Broke Brewing that they fully pay for if we lease them the spots for 10 years. They said there would be a highway sign at the highway exits onto 39th indicating that we have EV charging.

I have a proposal on my desk from Francis Energy for charging stations at Broke Brewing that they fully pay for if we lease them the spots for 10 years. They said there would be a highway sign at the highway exits onto 39th indicating that we have EV charging.

They seem to have a clue, because they appear to be putting chargers at places that have longer periods of "dwell time" (breweries, grocery stores, restaurants) instead of at gas stations (where "dwell time" is almost nonexistent).

They seem to have a clue, because they appear to be putting chargers at places that have longer periods of "dwell time" (breweries, grocery stores, restaurants) instead of at gas stations (where "dwell time" is almost nonexistent).

Or hotels where someone with a slow-charging car hogs the charging station all night long.


I'm going to have to buy a new car in the next few years and still not sure if an EV will be right for me given the charging infrastructure.

Even with the longest range, on a long road trip there are plenty of scenarios where you limp into a charging station and get behind people that are taking hours. I will be embarking on another long driving trip through the Midwest at the end of the summer and was checking out the reality of my desired route, and it stressed me out to think about taking that ride in an EV.

Things are changing and rapidly, but not sure of the timing for when we hit a tipping point. I hope within 2-3 years taking a long trip anywhere in the U.S. would be stress-free.