Does your mini have one pedal drive? I knew teslas did and the Tesla is much more aggressive in braking than the Mustang but I have gotten used to it.

Yep, and there's a switch (one thing I love about the MINI is that so much of its operations are toggle switches and dials, very old school) to go between high and low regen braking. I test drove an i3 to make sure I was OK with it before I ordered my MINI, and I *love* one-pedal driving, I always have it on high because I'm used to it, but that freaked my wife out, so she did low and is better with that setting.

Why are used Polestar 2’s so cheap? They are heavily discounted imo.

Why are used Polestar 2’s so cheap? They are heavily discounted imo.

Likely because Polestar updated the 2024 models and they are drastically improved. The two wheel drive models are now rear wheel drive instead of front wheel drive which fundamentally changed the driving dynamics for the better. Also, I think the battery in the base models are larger now.

Shares in Tesla plunged as much as 11% after the market opened Thursday, wiping $73 billion off the company’s market value hours after it warned of slowing growth in electric car sales and an existential threat from Chinese rivals.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/25/investing/tesla-stock-drop-china-sales/index.html

Anyone know if production has truly started?

Saw this making the rounds on the Lt. Gov. feed and local news yesterday: https://www.press.canoo.com/press-release/canoo-reaches-agreement-with-us-postal-service-for-purchase-of-electric-vehicles

I hate to say this about the future of automobiles, but it's been pretty clear for a while that with EVs, it's more about software and electronics than manufacturing and as things stand now, I believe there is going to be a strong shift to products from Asia (particularly China, Korea and Vietnam) vs. Europe and North America.

It's already happening, it's just that the U.S. is going to be about the last place to replace most vehicles with EVs. Already a big deal in Asia and Europe is also moving much faster, so EV makers (popping up everywhere) will continue developing and targeting those markets while we generally sit on the sidelines, just like the last revolution in cars that started in the 70s and caused the Big 3 to totally get their butts handed to them once this country finally allowed a decent amount of imports.

Most of us won't live long enough to see this seismic change fully play out, but if you follow this industry as I have for over 50 years, the handwriting on the wall couldn't be more clear.

I hate to say this about the future of automobiles, but it's been pretty clear for a while that with EVs, it's more about software and electronics than manufacturing and as things stand now, I believe there is going to be a strong shift to products from Asia (particularly China, Korea and Vietnam) vs. Europe and North America.

It's already happening, it's just that the U.S. is going to be about the last place to replace most vehicles with EVs. Already a big deal in Asia and Europe is also moving much faster, so EV makers (popping up everywhere) will continue developing and targeting those markets while we generally sit on the sidelines, just like the last revolution in cars that started in the 70s and caused the Big 3 to totally get their butts handed to them once this country finally allowed a decent amount of imports.

Most of us won't live long enough to see this seismic change fully play out, but if you follow this industry as I have for over 50 years, the handwriting on the wall couldn't be more clear.

Yup, and short term profit driven decisions made my our legacy automakers to satisfy shareholders and CEOs who only personally benefit on the short term are backing away from making substantial investments in electrification and it will set them even farther behind. Demand for electric vehicles still represents just a fraction of the overall auto market in the US but that won't be the case long term. Tesla, Chinese & Korean auto manufacturers will dominate the market.

I hate to say this about the future of automobiles, but it's been pretty clear for a while that with EVs, it's more about software and electronics than manufacturing and as things stand now, I believe there is going to be a strong shift to products from Asia (particularly China, Korea and Vietnam) vs. Europe and North America.

It's already happening, it's just that the U.S. is going to be about the last place to replace most vehicles with EVs. Already a big deal in Asia and Europe is also moving much faster, so EV makers (popping up everywhere) will continue developing and targeting those markets while we generally sit on the sidelines, just like the last revolution in cars that started in the 70s and caused the Big 3 to totally get their butts handed to them once this country finally allowed a decent amount of imports.

Most of us won't live long enough to see this seismic change fully play out, but if you follow this industry as I have for over 50 years, the handwriting on the wall couldn't be more clear.

If it's really going to be all about Tech, isn't the obvious play for one of the top automakers to make a major partnership with (if not outright get bought out by) Apple and/or Windows (assuming they don't figure it out on their own)? The degree to which you can create your whole life around a singular digital platform will continue to be the direction that things go, I think. So Apple and Windows will have to try and "dominate" the auto landscape.

Also, I think whichever countries win the battery game first will have a major impact on where they land in the pecking order. First manufacturers that can find their way to being 500 mile cars from 0 degrees to 100 degrees with 30 thousand miles on the battery are going to have a massive leg up. Hopefully some US companies are in that mix.

If it's really going to be all about Tech, isn't the obvious play for one of the top automakers to make a major partnership with (if not outright get bought out by) Apple and/or Windows (assuming they don't figure it out on their own)? The degree to which you can create your whole life around a singular digital platform will continue to be the direction that things go, I think. So Apple and Windows will have to try and "dominate" the auto landscape.

Also, I think whichever countries win the battery game first will have a major impact on where they land in the pecking order. First manufacturers that can find their way to being 500 mile cars from 0 degrees to 100 degrees with 30 thousand miles on the battery are going to have a massive leg up. Hopefully some US companies are in that mix.

Honest question, how do you as a country win the battery game when China owns the field, ball, players and the commissioner? They own all the mining in the Africa , South American, Asian critical elements mines, essentially slave labor. They are the only country to manufacture and process the cobalt and minerals to process it into batteries.

Honest question, how do you as a country win the battery game when China owns the field, ball, players and the commissioner? They own all the mining in the Africa , South American, Asian critical elements mines, essentially slave labor. They are the only country to manufacture and process the cobalt and minerals to process it into batteries.

The world's largest lithium deposit is in northern Nevada. The tourism/gambling stuff is what most people think of first, but mining has been huge in Nevada going back to statehood, so they have the expertise available in state to get at it.

There are challenges for sure (like making sure there's enough water to go around) but I wouldn't bet against Reno becoming the next American boomtown. Tesla already has facilities in the area (although I believe they were there before the lithium was discovered and that's really just a happy accident for Musk).

If it's really going to be all about Tech, isn't the obvious play for one of the top automakers to make a major partnership with (if not outright get bought out by) Apple and/or Windows (assuming they don't figure it out on their own)? The degree to which you can create your whole life around a singular digital platform will continue to be the direction that things go, I think. So Apple and Windows will have to try and "dominate" the auto landscape.

Also, I think whichever countries win the battery game first will have a major impact on where they land in the pecking order. First manufacturers that can find their way to being 500 mile cars from 0 degrees to 100 degrees with 30 thousand miles on the battery are going to have a massive leg up. Hopefully some US companies are in that mix.

Yeah, I would say its more about the battery engineering vs the software.

The world's largest lithium deposit is in northern Nevada. The tourism/gambling stuff is what most people think of first, but mining has been huge in Nevada going back to statehood, so they have the expertise available in state to get at it.

There are challenges for sure (like making sure there's enough water to go around) but I wouldn't bet against Reno becoming the next American boomtown. Tesla already has facilities in the area (although I believe they were there before the lithium was discovered and that's really just a happy accident for Musk).

Assuming the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals does not rule in favor of tribes suing to stop the project.

https://apnews.com/article/lithium-mine-tribes-climate-energy-lawsuit-nevada-7a65eee7d78d93a1e44e3f8e10445143

Honest question, how do you as a country win the battery game when China owns the field, ball, players and the commissioner? They own all the mining in the Africa , South American, Asian critical elements mines, essentially slave labor. They are the only country to manufacture and process the cobalt and minerals to process it into batteries.

The federal government has to start loosening restrictions on domestic mining (or at least stop blocking projects) so we can find and develop our own resources so that we aren't solely reliant on China. I could pull up 2 or 3 articles right now of the current administration restricting or prohibiting the development of known deposits of lithium and other materials needed for battery manufacturing. People are unfortunately beginning to realize that, similar to oil and gas, there are environmental impacts associated with the mining/production/refining of minerals required for batteries. It's all fun and games when the mining is overseas but people start getting upset the second we start trying to develop our own resources.There are pros and cons with all energy sources and the sooner people start accepting that, the easier it will be to continue the transition to electric vehicles. If we are serious about fully transitioning to electric vehicles, I don't think relying solely on China for batteries or raw materials is sustainable long term, especially with the growing geopolitical issues there.

Assuming the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals does not rule in favor of tribes suing to stop the project.

https://apnews.com/article/lithium-mine-tribes-climate-energy-lawsuit-nevada-7a65eee7d78d93a1e44e3f8e10445143

Sounds like things are moving in the right direction there. This is near one of the situations I was referring to. The Biden administration used the 1906 antiquities act to almost completely block development in a 506,814 acre area (that's 2/3rds the size of Rhode Island) between Nevada, Arizona, and California without much evidence or research to back up that decision. Can't unilaterally decide to lock up a huge swath some of our potential reserves and at the same time expect a mass transition to occur, especially when there is already regulatory framework in place to ensure that historic/archeological sites are not developed if discovered in an area. Hopefully they do not rule in favor of the tribes.

The federal government has to start loosening restrictions on domestic mining (or at least stop blocking projects) so we can find and develop our own resources so that we aren't solely reliant on China. I could pull up 2 or 3 articles right now of the current administration restricting or prohibiting the development of known deposits of lithium and other materials needed for battery manufacturing. People are unfortunately beginning to realize that, similar to oil and gas, there are environmental impacts associated with the mining/production/refining of minerals required for batteries. It's all fun and games when the mining is overseas but people start getting upset the second we start trying to develop our own resources.There are pros and cons with all energy sources and the sooner people start accepting that, the easier it will be to continue the transition to electric vehicles. If we are serious about fully transitioning to electric vehicles, I don't think relying solely on China for batteries or raw materials is sustainable long term, especially with the growing geopolitical issues there.

Same with nuclear plants. We don't have to build the 'Scary" ones from the 1970's, but its hard to get any traction when people hear nuke and run in fear. That lithium mining facility in Nevada needs water from somewhere and that is a state where water is already hard to come by. Need desalination plants, which take a ton of raw energy.

I just don't think we'll see very many successful American EV makers because this country will be the slowest of anywhere to adopt.

Hopefully, Tesla remains a big player but that's it for now. There are hundreds of startups in China, Vietnam, and Korea -- especially China. They have a huge home market that is exploding and then will be in a good position to export to Europe and the rest of the world.

Keep your politics to yourself or you are going to get banned -- I don't care who you are.

Keep your politics to yourself or you are going to get banned -- I don't care who you are.

Those posts were fringe political at best but fair enough.

I just don't think we'll see very many successful American EV makers because this country will be the slowest of anywhere to adopt.


i think we will see a few that end up successful because they see the true adoption market in the US. it isn't and won't be personal cars for quiet some time, it's the delivery industry. i know several local oil field supply companies whom i have personally talked with the owners and they are waiting for the ability to replace their small delivery vans or small trucks with a suitable electric alternative. you see places like USPS, WalMart, Kroger, and many others looking at them solely for deliveries. the last time i was in dallas, almost all of my lyft drivers were telling me that they have an electric car for their lyft driving and then a second car for personal use. and that is how they set their hours basically... they do pickups till they need to charge, then take time off while it is charging.

Honest question, how do you as a country win the battery game when China owns the field, ball, players and the commissioner? They own all the mining in the Africa , South American, Asian critical elements mines, essentially slave labor. They are the only country to manufacture and process the cobalt and minerals to process it into batteries.

All the primary resources in the world don't beat out game changing ingenuity. Making a product super cheap only matters if that product is competitive. In 2024, EV batteries are not competitive with traditional ICEs and Hybrids (of course, this is situationally false, but we're talking the entire market). If a US group figures out the battery and competitors take a few years to catch up, that can make a big difference in whoever partners with them.

I think the market wants a batter that is relatively unaffected by weather, and maintain a well over 500 mile range during the first 30,000 miles+ (probably more like 700 mile range for the first 30k miles and not reaching a 500 mile max range until after hitting 120k miles.

All the primary resources in the world don't beat out game changing ingenuity. Making a product super cheap only matters if that product is competitive. In 2024, EV batteries are not competitive with traditional ICEs and Hybrids (of course, this is situationally false, but we're talking the entire market). If a US group figures out the battery and competitors take a few years to catch up, that can make a big difference in whoever partners with them.

I think the market wants a batter that is relatively unaffected by weather, and maintain a well over 500 mile range during the first 30,000 miles+ (probably more like 700 mile range for the first 30k miles and not reaching a 500 mile max range until after hitting 120k miles.

For sure. Need to swing for the fences here. :tongue:

I'm not sure I agree with all of the pessimism surrounding personal vehicles and adoption of EVs. As soon as automakers bring their prices in line with ICE vehicles and there's some answer to battery replacement that costs a reasonable amount of money, consumers will start to come around. I know I was gung ho to get a Lightning when they came out, but then Ford nearly doubled the price of the vehicles and for that $20K+ price increase, I could buy a lot of gasoline, so it made no sense.

And that's really what it's going take in the U.S. to make it work.

I was really excited and I am ready to go when something acceptable comse down the pike. Until then, my 'ol Bimmer is paid for and at 150K miles, still runs great.

I'm not sure I agree with all of the pessimism surrounding personal vehicles and adoption of EVs. As soon as automakers bring their prices in line with ICE vehicles and there's some answer to battery replacement that costs a reasonable amount of money, consumers will start to come around. I know I was gung ho to get a Lightning when they came out, but then Ford nearly doubled the price of the vehicles and for that $20K+ price increase, I could buy a lot of gasoline, so it made no sense.

And that's really what it's going take in the U.S. to make it work.

I was really excited and I am ready to go when something acceptable comse down the pike. Until then, my 'ol Bimmer is paid for and at 150K miles, still runs great.

That's the problem...they're having trouble making money selling them at their current prices.

There is also going to have to be a large used vehicle inventory for mass adoption to take off. Not everyone can afford (or wants to pay) for a new vehicle even at ICE vehicle prices.

What are some EV markets that are actually comparable to the US?. If less of the population use cars is it really surprising that Europe has a higher EV adoption rate? If they have to get a car they do seem more likely to get an EV and its easier to build out the infrastructure in European cities.

i think we will see a few that end up successful because they see the true adoption market in the US. it isn't and won't be personal cars for quiet some time, it's the delivery industry. i know several local oil field supply companies whom i have personally talked with the owners and they are waiting for the ability to replace their small delivery vans or small trucks with a suitable electric alternative. you see places like USPS, WalMart, Kroger, and many others looking at them solely for deliveries. the last time i was in dallas, almost all of my lyft drivers were telling me that they have an electric car for their lyft driving and then a second car for personal use. and that is how they set their hours basically... they do pickups till they need to charge, then take time off while it is charging.

Amazon has started using some EVs, nice and quiet and they have a cute look to them, for whatever that is worth. I just can't believe every delivery vehicle in the US isn't a hybrid by now, with many going full EV. There is no better segment in transportation for hybrids that last mile delivery. But there is far more bank for the buck in converting the delivery fleet to EV than personal vehicles.

The delivery van / postal vehicle adoption in the U.S. is a great point.

Also, short-haul trucking.

In those ways, the U.S. has more demand than anywhere because our country and most communities are so spread out.


In addition, they are making huge leaps in autonomous vehicles. There is huge motivation because all these trucking and delivery companies are having a terrible time staffing positions.

The delivery van / postal vehicle adoption in the U.S. is a great point.

Also, short-haul trucking.

In those ways, the U.S. has more demand than anywhere because our country and most communities are so spread out.


In addition, they are making huge leaps in autonomous vehicles. There is huge motivation because all these trucking and delivery companies are having a terrible time staffing positions.

There's going to have to be *a lot* of infrastructure work to make autonomous vehicles feasible, they need to know where the lanes are and in OKC, that's a complete fail for huge parts of the city - worn out paint, non-existent paint, not very good paint (where it comes to lanes splitting off from the main ones, it's not striped well or far enough in advance), etc. My MINI can't even detect the lane markings 50% of the time, thinks I'm straying even when I'm perfectly in the middle of the lane (and yes, I know autonomous vehicles will most likely have a more robust set of detection sensors/cameras than my MINI, but still).

Back on topic, though - the USPS should have a significant percentage of their fleet be all electric (or at least hybrid) by now. Should've been replacing aged-out vehicles with electric starting years ago. And yes, all the other short-haul/last-mile trucks too. But I believe all those companies (USPS included) run their trucks until they're completely worn out, so it might take a while to start replacing old ones with electric, unfortunately, gotta recover those sunk costs (probably multiple times over :)).

There's going to have to be *a lot* of infrastructure work to make autonomous vehicles feasible, they need to know where the lanes are and in OKC, that's a complete fail for huge parts of the city - worn out paint, non-existent paint, not very good paint (where it comes to lanes splitting off from the main ones, it's not striped well or far enough in advance), etc. My MINI can't even detect the lane markings 50% of the time, thinks I'm straying even when I'm perfectly in the middle of the lane (and yes, I know autonomous vehicles will most likely have a more robust set of detection sensors/cameras than my MINI, but still).

They have already run successful tests of autonomous trucks between various cities.

And there are several cities that are already using autonomous cabs and shuttles.


Long way to go, but great progress is being made.

Back on topic, though - the USPS should have a significant percentage of their fleet be all electric (or at least hybrid) by now. Should've been replacing aged-out vehicles with electric starting years ago. And yes, all the other short-haul/last-mile trucks too. But I believe all those companies (USPS included) run their trucks until they're completely worn out, so it might take a while to start replacing old ones with electric, unfortunately, gotta recover those sunk costs (probably multiple times over :)).

https://about.usps.com/newsroom/national-releases/2024/0122-usps-unveils-first-postal-electric-vehicle-charging-stations-and-electric-delivery-vehicles.htm

"USPS plans on procuring a total of 21,000 COTS EVs — including 9,250 from Ford — depending on market availability and operational feasibility. In addition, the Postal Service anticipates adding at least 45,000 battery-electric Next Generation Delivery Vehicles (NGDVs) by 2028, bringing the total number of EVs in the delivery fleet to more than 66,000."

All I want are autonomous trucks that don't try to pass people at 15 mph under the speed limit while going uphill on I-44. Is that too much to ask? lol

Also the USPS is an excellent use case for electric vehicles, especially Canoo's. Will be pretty cool if that works out.

Elon Musk's Tesla recalls 2.2 million vehicles, nearly every vehicle sold in the U.S. | Fortune
https://fortune.com/2024/02/02/elon-musk-tesla-recall-2-2-million-vehicles-safety-lights-too-small/amp/

Growing pains

Ya we might pull the trigger on a model y next month. The credit up front plus the price drop making it very attractive!

Elon Musk's Tesla recalls 2.2 million vehicles, nearly every vehicle sold in the U.S. | Fortune
https://fortune.com/2024/02/02/elon-musk-tesla-recall-2-2-million-vehicles-safety-lights-too-small/amp/


Growing pains

It's worth noting that this recall is just a software update that will be pushed out. A very easy fix.

Mercedes just released a new electric version of its mega-popular Sprinter delivery van, and they now have a 300+ mile range.

I'm sure that would easily eclipse the maximum of almost any local delivery route.


You have to believe delivery will be the one area where we start to see high adoption in the U.S.

Elon Musk's Tesla recalls 2.2 million vehicles, nearly every vehicle sold in the U.S. | Fortune
https://fortune.com/2024/02/02/elon-musk-tesla-recall-2-2-million-vehicles-safety-lights-too-small/amp/

Growing pains

It's literally just a software update for the size of it's warning lights by 5%. Typical click bait garbage journalism.

It's literally just a software update for the size of it's warning lights by 5%. Typical click bait garbage journalism.

Yeah, I pointed that out a couple of posts up. It is still a federal mandated recall and that article does point out some other issues being investigated not related to the headline which seem like a bigger deal than what the headline is actually saying. Basically autopilot is not fully ready to be fully autonomous and drivers need to be reminded of that.

New Porsche Macan EV just released - early range tests getting 325 or so per charge. Updated Porsche Taycan achieved 465 miles on a charge in a hypermile range test. It will likely get well over 300 per charge during "normal" driving depending on the spec. They also have modular batteries so if there is a problem, a faulty module can be replaced instead of the entire pack.

I am considering the BMW i4 m50 or i5 m60 when my lease is up on my 540i xdrive next March. It appears the lease cost is about $200/mo less for the same gross sales price on the 540 or other ICE BMW.

The performance is one of the reasons I am considering electric but also curious how much I might expect to save on gas? I would charge primarily at home and install an L2. I average 15-20k miles a year and probably spend $300-400/mo on gas I'd guess.

I'm definitely not set on it- will probably drive one soon but figured I'd get some opinions.

I figure if I can get full M performance while saving $300-400+/mo potentially over another 540 payment/gas while also retaining the luxury & comfort of a traditional BMW this could effectively scratch my separate sport car itch for a while.

Thoughts?

I am considering the BMW i4 m50 or i5 m60 when my lease is up on my 540i xdrive next March. It appears the lease cost is about $200/mo less for the same gross sales price on the 540 or other ICE BMW.

The performance is one of the reasons I am considering electric but also curious how much I might expect to save on gas? I would charge primarily at home and install an L2. I average 15-20k miles a year and probably spend $300-400/mo on gas I'd guess.

I'm definitely not set on it- will probably drive one soon but figured I'd get some opinions.

I figure if I can get full M performance while saving $300-400+/mo potentially over another 540 payment/gas while also retaining the luxury & comfort of a traditional BMW this could effectively scratch my separate sport car itch for a while.

Thoughts?

You'd save around 1,900 a year in gas.

https://chooseev.com/savings-calculator/

You'd save around 1,900 a year in gas.

https://chooseev.com/savings-calculator/

Appreciate it! Seems like my gross savings minus any insurance adjustment (hoping not much higher) would be roughly $400/mo to lease an electric at a similar price. I am giving it some serious consideration.

Appreciate it! Seems like my gross savings minus any insurance adjustment (hoping not much higher) would be roughly $400/mo to lease an electric at a similar price. I am giving it some serious consideration.

I would think from BMW to BMW it shouldn't be too much of an insurance cost but you could always grab a VIN online and ask your insurance company!

Appreciate it! Seems like my gross savings minus any insurance adjustment (hoping not much higher) would be roughly $400/mo to lease an electric at a similar price. I am giving it some serious consideration.

Have you driven one yet? I think a test drive would seal the deal. TVs are so much fun to drive.

Have you driven one yet? I think a test drive would seal the deal. TVs are so much fun to drive.

Not yet, I messaged my sales guy over the weekend and this morning and will be over there soon. Hopefully this afternoon- I'll report back.

I've driven a Tesla but it was a few years ago & just a base model 3. The BMW will be an entirely different experience.

Not yet, I messaged my sales guy over the weekend and this morning and will be over there soon. Hopefully this afternoon- I'll report back.

I've driven a Tesla but it was a few years ago & just a base model 3. The BMW will be an entirely different experience.

That will certainly be true - the first EV I ever drove was a Taycan and nothing Tesla makes is close.

That will certainly be true - the first EV I ever drove was a Taycan and nothing Tesla makes is close.

Those are sweet, I'd like to drive one but at the price to get comparable performance they are just ridiculously expensive. What did you think? Did you drive the base model?

Those are sweet, I'd like to drive one but at the price to get comparable performance they are just ridiculously expensive. What did you think? Did you drive the base model?

I drove a 4S and was extremely impressed. I've been driving Porsches a few years now and the acceleration and handling is incredible for a heavy EV. The key is all the mass is down low combined with Porsche's suspension engineering leaves Tesla in the dust. I drove it down Broadway Extension and took TX turnaround way faster than you would think possible. The sweet spot in the model line up is the GTS in my opinion but they are still quite pricey. The new Macan EV 4S looks to be another great option. Looking forward to testing one of them.

I think finding a pre-owned GTS or an extremely sweet lease deal would be the way to go as far as Taycan goes. I also like the Polestar 3 a lot but there is no Polestar dealer in OK.

Appreciate it! Seems like my gross savings minus any insurance adjustment (hoping not much higher) would be roughly $400/mo to lease an electric at a similar price. I am giving it some serious consideration.

I would set my sites a little lower than $1900/yr to be realistic. Also, don't forget to subtract out what it costs to charge. I've seen where some EV manufacturers (don't recall if BMW is one) suggest to not fully deplete the battery and to not fully charge it. Basically treat it like a cell phone. Keep it between 20% and 80%. So you're effectively using 60% of your battery.

I would see about renting one first to give it a try. I read stories (Ford and another manufacturer I don't recall rn) where the app to find available chargers has bad information. People arriving at charge stations to find all but a couple of them are broken.

Perform due diligence.

If you want an EV for performance or because you just think it's cool, that's understandable. Just don't do it thinking your saving the planet because you're not.

^

Renting is a good suggestion. I rented a Polestar 2 on a trip back top the Research Triangle area of NC and charging was an issue even in one of the more forward looking parts of the country with plenty of high tech businesses.

Charger etiquette is lacking in that too many people try to charge to 100% which greatly extends charge time. This create larger queues than necessary and add to the frustration of long idle time. Home charging solves most of that if the vehicle is mostly for local driving though.

The bottom line is after that experience, we decided having an ICE vehicle for long trips with the EV for mostly local driving; or a plug-in hybrid is probably the way to go until the charging infrastructure at least approaches European levels of development and reliability.

I would set my sites a little lower than $1900/yr to be realistic. Also, don't forget to subtract out what it costs to charge. I've seen where some EV manufacturers (don't recall if BMW is one) suggest to not fully deplete the battery and to not fully charge it. Basically treat it like a cell phone. Keep it between 20% and 80%. So you're effectively using 60% of your battery.

I would see about renting one first to give it a try. I read stories (Ford and another manufacturer I don't recall rn) where the app to find available chargers has bad information. People arriving at charge stations to find all but a couple of them are broken.

Perform due diligence.

If you want an EV for performance or because you just think it's cool, that's understandable. Just don't do it thinking your saving the planet because you're not.

Yea renting one isn't a bad idea. I'll see how long I can have one for a test drive. I'm definitely doing my diligence first, the performance for the price is extremely attractive esp on the lease. Few hundred a month less than what I'm currently spending on my 540. I've always wanted a full on M but they just aren't practical for a daily driver at all. This thing on the other hand appears to have all the comforts & normal bmw elements while also being very fast.


^

Renting is a good suggestion. I rented a Polestar 2 on a trip back top the Research Triangle area of NC and charging was an issue even in one of the more forward looking parts of the country with plenty of high tech businesses.

Charger etiquette is lacking in that too many people try to charge to 100% which greatly extends charge time. This create larger queues than necessary and add to the frustration of long idle time. Home charging solves most of that if the vehicle is mostly for local driving though.

The bottom line is after that experience, we decided having an ICE vehicle for long trips with the EV for mostly local driving; or a plug-in hybrid is probably the way to go until the charging infrastructure at least approaches European levels of development and reliability.

Yea we have my wifes SUV's for out of town trips. We took my BMW to Great Wolf Lodge in July and that was a nice drive but it's the only time I've taken it farther than Tulsa so 99% of the time I'm driving less than 100 miles a day in the city, maybe 150 if I've got appointments in multiple areas around the city but that's rare. I'm more concerned about the space in the back but 90% of the time it's just me and the other 10% I've got my daughter or wife who I'm sure will never want to go this fast so it's still fine. She already thinks I drive my 540 too fast.

I would set my sites a little lower than $1900/yr to be realistic. Also, don't forget to subtract out what it costs to charge.
You will also have to pay more for tags since you aren't paying any gasoline tax.


If you want an EV for performance or because you just think it's cool, that's understandable. Just don't do it thinking you're saving the planet because you're not.
That's not necessarily true. I had the option to install solar panels and use my home charger straight from the solar power. That would've made my emissions zero.

IIf you want an EV for performance or because you just think it's cool, that's understandable. Just don't do it thinking your saving the planet because you're not.

EV's aren't perfect but they are still better for the environment than ICE cars.

You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars (https://www.motortrend.com/features/truth-about-electric-cars-ad-why-you-are-being-lied-to/)
Science has repeatedly shown EVs are better for humans, despite the meme you just retweeted.

Have you driven one yet? I think a test drive would seal the deal. TVs are so much fun to drive.

I ended up driving it this afternoon, just a short trip down broadway extension to hefner & back to the dealership. I didn't really get a good feel for it in such a short time but it's very smooth, essentially feels like a normal BMW and the power is insane. I'm going to take the model below the m50 for awhile longer and get a better feel for the electric before I make a decision. It does appear all things considered on this model I would probably save $300-$350/mo total over the 540. BMW has the 7500 incentive on electric right now which may or may not change by the time I actually take delivery.

EV's aren't perfect but they are still better for the environment than ICE cars.

You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars (https://www.motortrend.com/features/truth-about-electric-cars-ad-why-you-are-being-lied-to/)
Science has repeatedly shown EVs are better for humans, despite the meme you just retweeted.

I've looked and studied about this for several years. I've looked and looked for an environmental impact comparison between EVs and ICE from beginning to end of life. All I've ever found is on the road comparisons. And many of those studies are from car makers with a vested interest.

When you look at rare earth metal mining, extracting that metal from other elements, the amount of plastic used to make the vehicles lighter because of the weight of the battery, e-waste, electricity coming from fossil fuels and so on...the best conclusion I've been able to come to is that it's a push.

I think the primary difference in environmental impact are the vehicle emissions. There is no disputing any manufacturing process is going to have an environmental impact, and EV manufacturing might be comparable or in some measures maybe more negative. But overall, I think they will end up being a net positive.

^

Yale conducted the main study cited in that detailed analysis and strongly disagrees with your opinion.

Your logic reminds me of all the people who 'conducted their own study' of the covid vaccines and determined big pharma was behind it all and was lying to them.

Appreciate it! Seems like my gross savings minus any insurance adjustment (hoping not much higher) would be roughly $400/mo to lease an electric at a similar price. I am giving it some serious consideration.

Definitely check with your insurer. The cost of insurance has been one of the things keeping me from pulling the trigger.

I've driven BMW's exclusively for the last 10 years, but haven't been a huge fan of their EV lineup. I need a longer range vehicle as I do occasionally have court in places like Guymon and Idabel, and BMW just hasn't impressed with their claimed range (although I understand that claimed range and actual range are not standard things). Good luck though.

^

Yale conducted the main study cited in that detailed analysis and strongly disagrees with your opinion.

Your logic reminds me of all the people who 'conducted their own study' of the covid vaccines and determined big pharma was behind it all and was lying to them.
That sounds a bit ad hominem but to use that same strategy, this reminds me of people who believe greenwashing lingo. I'm not just going to believe something blindly because it has a big name attached to it. Also, the study says EV production emits less greenhouse gasses. Not less total environmental impact.

Aside from that, what I've been seeing is that for a total move to EV, wind energy, and solar energy, there's not enough rare earth metals to store all that energy, we can't get to all the metals and we can't do it fast enough.

Aside from that, what I've been seeing is that for a total move to EV, wind energy, and solar energy, there's not enough rare earth metals to store all that energy, we can't get to all the metals and we can't do it fast enough.

Probably the biggest limiting factor right there unless there is a huge breakthrough in battery technology(maybe it will happen, if the laws of physics allows it). The positive environmental impact would be because the overall net amount of cars on this planet because either A: Government taxed ICE's to the point where less people want them and/or B: gas finally got to the point where less people want them. I still say vehicle ownership is going to eventually be an upper middle class or higher thing in the decades to come.

Humans driving around in these huge machines is largely impractical from a conservation point of view. We have to remember that fossil fuels are basically batteries that have been charging from 'solar energy' over millions of years.

Car-sharing or car-hailing services will almost certainly become more prevalent.

I know that my own car is sitting idle 98% of the time.

Definitely check with your insurer. The cost of insurance has been one of the things keeping me from pulling the trigger.

I've driven BMW's exclusively for the last 10 years, but haven't been a huge fan of their EV lineup. I need a longer range vehicle as I do occasionally have court in places like Guymon and Idabel, and BMW just hasn't impressed with their claimed range (although I understand that claimed range and actual range are not standard things). Good luck though.

My insurance guy said the i4 m50 would run about $100/year more vs the 540 so it's negligible fortunately. I was also worried about that aspect.

I had the i4 xdrive 40 all day today as a tester and overall I'm pretty impressed. The seats aren't as wide/comfy as my 540 but that's probably the biggest thing. Totally different feel but it's still quite quick- other than a dead stop it's quicker than my 540 for most typical driving. It's even more quiet without the normal engine & drive train noises which is really impressive. Feels just like a normal BMW on the inside. I'm told the ranges on BMW are actually a little underrated compared to some of the other EV's. At any rate I drove it hard and a lot of miles today and it went from 80 - 40 %. For most practical purposes within a couple hundred miles I think it's a great option for me & it was still a lot of fun to drive just in a different way. I will probably opt for the m50 if I do get the i4 just for fun. It might not be a full M but it's not very far off- faster than a rear drive m3 comp which is saying something.