so why would people want to make a special trip to see this one when there are others much older with much more history mo, stained glass, more beautiful, and artwork?

Personal choice. Why ask why?

Let me preface my post by saying I'm not catholic and not that familiar with shrines. People here are talking about people traveling to see this shrine. I searched Google and there are already 72 shrines and many are basilicas so why would people want to make a special trip to see this one when there are others much older with much more history mo, stained glass, more beautiful, and artwork? There aren't international flights going into Tuscon because of the beautiful Mission San Xavier del Bac built in 1783.

I think it is a great addition to OKC.

You so know just how many Americans have become this close to sainthood, right? I'll give you 2 guesses how many, which should be a hint.

He is about as famous a catholic as you will find (well famous for being catholic) in the US.

A recent change that takes effect this weekend. Sunday mass in English has been changed from 10:00am to 9:00am.

I'm old enough to remember when the really early Mass was in Latin. As an altar boy in the early 60's I had to learn all the Latin responses.

Thanks for filling me in. I look forward to what this shrine does for the city. I live a few miles away and it's amazing to have something that will be here for over 1000 years down the street

This building, the state capitol, and perhaps a few churches--anything else that could reasonably see the year 3000?

I'm curious what sort of congregation is starting to build here. It's quite a lot of building and campus for the diose to pay for without some sort of income from offerings from a local congregation. Is there a priest assigned here yet? Is there a nunnery to accompany it yet. Or is that not normal?

I'm not Catholic, so i'm asking what may be dumb things. It's just such a large space, i'm sure it will take a lot of money to keep it just functioning.

Holy Angels parish (317 N. Shartel) was closed--those 400 members along with some from an overcrowded Sacred Heart Parish (27th S. Shartel) and overcrowded parishes thru out OKC including the Cathedral of Our Lady of Perpetual Help will begin to fill the pews of the massive Rother Shrine Church--it will continue to grow.

There are rumors that the Oklahoma City Archdioceses will make the Rother Shrine Basilica style church the new cathedral for the Oklahoma City archdioceses which includes Tulsa and Little Rock, AK.

The Archdiocese of Okc does not include Tulsa or Ark. They are are both seats of different diocese, but they are grouped into a province with Okc Archdiocese. The other two are dioceses and Okc is the Archdiocese.

I'm curious what sort of congregation is starting to build here. It's quite a lot of building and campus for the diose to pay for without some sort of income from offerings from a local congregation. Is there a priest assigned here yet? Is there a nunnery to accompany it yet. Or is that not normal?

I'm not Catholic, so i'm asking what may be dumb things. It's just such a large space, i'm sure it will take a lot of money to keep it just functioning.

Its a shrine so partly by visits making donations, the parish will grow an so the parishioners attending will support it. As far as the other buildings to be built, it will be donations from people in the archdiocese as well as others through out the country. There are priests assigned to it. As far as a convent, there would have to be a religious community that would commit to having sisters on staff and living quarters built or in the area. There are not that many religious women in this archdiocese, those that hare here are from communities not based here but do serve the Hispanic and Vietnamese communities. Unfortunately many religious communities are shrinking do to more older members dying then new younger people joining. Not all forms of consecrated life are shrinking. Other forms of consecrated life include members of secular institutes, diocesan hermits and consecrated virgins living in the world. ( I am a consecrated virgin living in the world)

I'm curious what sort of congregation is starting to build here. It's quite a lot of building and campus for the diose to pay for without some sort of income from offerings from a local congregation. Is there a priest assigned here yet? Is there a nunnery to accompany it yet. Or is that not normal?

I'm not Catholic, so i'm asking what may be dumb things. It's just such a large space, i'm sure it will take a lot of money to keep it just functioning.

As mentioned by others, the shrine houses a parish that combines the Sacred Heart and Holy Angels parishes and has two full time priests assigned to it. The question about nuns is very interesting. Archbishop Coakley has been making efforts to bring more religious sisters back to Oklahoma City. I have never heard of the shrine grounds being a possible home to them, but it would make a lot of sense, if there is actually space for them. I don't think that there would be, though.


Holy Angels parish (317 N. Shartel) was closed--those 400 members along with some from an overcrowded Sacred Heart Parish (27th S. Shartel) and overcrowded parishes thru out OKC including the Cathedral of Our Lady of Perpetual Help will begin to fill the pews of the massive Rother Shrine Church--it will continue to grow.

There are rumors that the Oklahoma City Archdioceses will make the Rother Shrine Basilica style church the new cathedral for the Oklahoma City archdioceses which includes Tulsa and Little Rock, AK.

I am on record as saying that I think the shrine will eventually become the cathedral of Oklahoma City. I think it just makes too much sense. However, I was just recently reminded that nearly every new Catholic church built in the OKC area for the last 40 years that is larger than the current cathedral has been rumored to be the "new" cathedral. The Cathedral of Our Lady of Perpetual Help just finished a massive renovation in 2019 that some see as cementing it as the cathedral. I still think convenience will take over and the renovation will be a parting gift as they move the bishop's chair to the shrine.

Side note: The Archdiocese of Oklahoma City covers only the western 2/3 of Oklahoma. Tulsa and Little Rock are part of the Province of Oklahoma City, but that has very little practical meaning, and they are their own churches with their own bishops and cathedrals.

Our Lady of Perpetual Fundraising...

Our Lady of Perpetual Fundraising...

Recall the dioceses' city wide Altar Boys ceremony being held here in 1963 under Bishop Victor J. Reed, dioceses of Oklahoma City-Tulsa. Bishop Reed died in 1971 after he and several priests attended a movie, it was the first time I attended a Roman Catholic Bishop's funeral--open casket.

Langston University's all black choir under the direction of Dr. Freddie F. Cudjoe put on a funeral of Catholic songs fit for a king. Remember the opening processional song, "Priestly people, kingly people, holy people."

First time seeing a black Roman Catholic Bishop (Attended Bishop Reed's Funeral) in my lifetime.

Attended by over 400 deacons, priests, bishops, nuns, monks and clergy from all over the U. S., occupied more than half of the cathedral's front rows with an overflow into the street--this was the largest event held at Our Lady's Cathedral that I recall.

So related to The Cathedral of Our Lady of Perpetual Help, then how does somewhere like St Marks in Norman fit in. It's not the old style cathedral, but its pretty new and very nice. I went to a funeral there and it seemed like a very lovely place. There are so many churches, not just Catholic, that have the "old church" smell that's really off-putting to visitors. They smell of dying church. So while I'm glad to see some of the more historic places like Perpetual getting renovated to keep them in good shape, I wouldn't ignore some of other modern buildings. Or am i missing something in how these two are designated differently?

And it would seem obvious to me that if Rother was as big of a deal as he is said to be in this thread, then of course the Shrine will be THE place. it may be a bit before it gets there as it grows, but there's not comparison even to Perpetual and its beauty. I used to drive near Perpetual regularly when I was at OCU, and it was a nicely maintained church among the mess that was the area at the time. I'm very glad that the area is really starting to get some love as people renovate the homes too. But that's another topic.

So related to The Cathedral of Our Lady of Perpetual Help, then how does somewhere like St Marks in Norman fit in. It's not the old style cathedral, but its pretty new and very nice. I went to a funeral there and it seemed like a very lovely place. There are so many churches, not just Catholic, that have the "old church" smell that's really off-putting to visitors. They smell of dying church. So while I'm glad to see some of the more historic places like Perpetual getting renovated to keep them in good shape, I wouldn't ignore some of other modern buildings. Or am i missing something in how these two are designated differently?

And it would seem obvious to me that if Rother was as big of a deal as he is said to be in this thread, then of course the Shrine will be THE place. it may be a bit before it gets there as it grows, but there's not comparison even to Perpetual and its beauty. I used to drive near Perpetual regularly when I was at OCU, and it was a nicely maintained church among the mess that was the area at the time. I'm very glad that the area is really starting to get some love as people renovate the homes too. But that's another topic.

To be honest, people get too caught up in the title of cathedral. Being a cathedral literally means it is where the bishop's chair (cathedra (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedra)) is placed. Outside of a handful of events each year, there is not much difference between the daily life of Our Lady of Perpetual Help and a parish in rural western Oklahoma (okay, that is maybe an exaggeration). On the major holy days, the Archbishop comes to the Cathedral because it's his primary church. Outside of that, I think there is some financial help that Our Lady of Perpetual Help receives for the title, but I don't think it's significant. Because it is ceremonial, there is nothing preventing OLPH from continuing as the cathedral while large celebrations are held at the shrine. Time will tell.

First off, cathedral is a grossly misused term. A cathedral is not an architectural style, which is how the term is commonly used, but actually refers to the church where the bishop (or Ordinary) of the local diocese (or See) is. It is his church. More specifically, it refers to the chair that is in the cathedral known in latin as the "cathedra", or "seat". Thus the name "cathedral". Sometimes called the "mother church" of a diocese. This specific chair is where bishop ceremonially sits and is a symbol of his pastoral authority and leadership. Nobody sits in that chair except the bishop. So for other Masses or rites where he isn't present, the priest will sit in a different chair. A cathedral, therefore, is an important church within a diocese or archdiocese and is where many diocesan-wide liturgies are held. Because of that, capacity considerations are not unimportant. If you go into a true cathedral, you'll notice the prominent chair that is the cathedra.

The vast majority of other churches, such as St. Mark's in Norman, are called "parish churches". That is, they are a community of Roman Catholics in (traditionally) a certain parish geographical area and that is their church. Catholics are supposed to attend their parish church--although it is not unusual for people to drift around from parish-to-parish for various reasons. But generally Roman Catholics belong to the parish church of their geographical area. It's important to note that most cathedrals function as a parish church too. That is to say, that they are not only the bishop's church and serve the diocese, but they also have regular members and parishioners who attend like any other parish church.

I suppose any church within a diocese could be designated as the Cathedral church, but it does require approval from the Pope. Typically the cathedral is in the city for which the diocese in named. So having it at a suburb church would be atypical. Interesingt note, the original cathedral for OKC was St. Joseph's downtown. It moved to Our Lady's later, I've always assumed for capacity purposes. Now St. Joseph's is a regular parish church as Our Lady's used to be. So there is certainly precedent in this diocese for moving the cathedral. I too think that the Shrine will become the cathedral at some point. As someone else said, it just makes too much sense.

Our Lady of Perpetual Fundraising...

Our Lawyer of Perpetual religious negativism. Are YOU being forced to donate?

Our Lady of Perpetual Fundraising...

Some of the greatest churches in the world took years to fully build and furnish. In the microwave world we want everything done all at once and aren’t usually committed to long term building and improving. So, some people take a negative view if they can’t snap their fingers and have it.

Probably was a mistake to close Villa Teresa, in retrospect. The Archdiocese should have expended it, modernized it, to encourage more sisters to come to the faith.

The development that's taking place there could have been done elsewhere in Midtown.

Oh well.

Probably was a mistake to close Villa Teresa, in retrospect. The Archdiocese should have expended it, modernized it, to encourage more sisters to come to the faith.

The development that's taking place there could have been done elsewhere in Midtown.

Oh well.

Villa Teresa is a private development. Rother Shrine isn’t? And they are separated by about a dozen miles. What’s the connection?

Thanks for the detailed description on the differences there. So sounds like it doesn't matter much in practical terms who gets the title.

For those concerned about the city, Rother is technically still in OKC. The Moore city line is just a bit south of there (literally, like 2 plots of land south at 97th st, just on the south side of the dual apartment complex), so it would still be in the "mother city' even if it did have a title change.

Villa Teresa is a private development. Rother Shrine isn’t? And they are separated by about a dozen miles. What’s the connection?

I believe Villa Teresa was built as a Catholic school and convent.

I believe Villa Teresa was built as a Catholic school and convent.

Still don't understand why this is has to do with the Rother Shrine. Villa Teresa was never in the running for this or any big Catholic Church or Church led development. Back to Rother Shrine discussion....

I'm guessing Hot Rod has an understanding of the Catholic church history in Oklahoma City that makes him think the loss of Villa Teresa as a convent and school has harmed the church efforts to get women to be nuns in the area. And since Bomber MWC mentioned a nunnery last week in post 366 the subject of females in church service has been discussed here,

I am not of the Catholic faith and have found this thread to be quite helpful in learning about the mechanics of the earthly church structure.

Just to let some of you know that Villa Teresa belonged to the Carmelite sisters. They are a different entity then the Archdiocese, they are a religious community. They have the Archbishop's permission to be in the Okc Archdiocese and work here and also have their mother house here. Because of the lack of new vocations they closed the school and down sized to their current location. The cloistered Carmelite nuns in the Piedmont area also sold their convent grounds and left the state for the same reason. Many other religious communities of women as well as men are having to do the same all over the country due to falling numbers.

Villa Teresa is a private development. Rother Shrine isn’t? And they are separated by about a dozen miles. What’s the connection?

Yes Dob, that was my point.

The sisters, the desire of the Arch to get more women into the ministry. We had that incubator with Villa Teresa (I could be wrong), which was built by the original catholics who came to OKC if I'm not mistaken.

I went to a catholic school in OKC for elementary, we had nuns running everything and I recall Villa Teresa as being the "model" for all schools. Can't imagine those schools without the dedicated, spiritual women.

Just to let some of you know that Villa Teresa belonged to the Carmelite sisters. They are a different entity then the Archdiocese, they are a religious community. They have the Archbishop's permission to be in the Okc Archdiocese and work here and also have their mother house here. Because of the lack of new vocations they closed the school and down sized to their current location. The cloistered Carmelite nuns in the Piedmont area also sold their convent grounds and left the state for the same reason. Many other religious communities of women as well as men are having to do the same all over the country due to falling numbers.

Thank you for that OKLIP, I knew there was some connection but not being in OKC I didn't know why VT has shuttered; I just recall when it was announced and felt sad. I also thought that Catholic was rising, even in OKC but I could be wrong there as well. Sorry for moving us away from Rother Shrine; I do wish it success and hope they can resurrect the ministry of women in OKC Arch.

So related to The Cathedral of Our Lady of Perpetual Help, then how does somewhere like St Marks in Norman fit in. It's not the old style cathedral, but its pretty new and very nice. I went to a funeral there and it seemed like a very lovely place. There are so many churches, not just Catholic, that have the "old church" smell that's really off-putting to visitors. They smell of dying church. So while I'm glad to see some of the more historic places like Perpetual getting renovated to keep them in good shape, I wouldn't ignore some of other modern buildings. Or am i missing something in how these two are designated differently?

And it would seem obvious to me that if Rother was as big of a deal as he is said to be in this thread, then of course the Shrine will be THE place. it may be a bit before it gets there as it grows, but there's not comparison even to Perpetual and its beauty. I used to drive near Perpetual regularly when I was at OCU, and it was a nicely maintained church among the mess that was the area at the time. I'm very glad that the area is really starting to get some love as people renovate the homes too. But that's another topic.

wow lol. I don't mean to be rude but stating the smell of older Churches is the smell of a dying Church...what does that even mean? What an asinine comment

Thank you for that OKLIP, I knew there was some connection but not being in OKC I didn't know why VT has shuttered; I just recall when it was announced and felt sad. I also thought that Catholic was rising, even in OKC but I could be wrong there as well. Sorry for moving us away from Rother Shrine; I do wish it success and hope they can resurrect the ministry of women in OKC Arch.The community was originally formed to teach children in southeast Okla. The Bishop at that time (Okla had one diocese) invited them to come to Okc, with generous donors they were able to buy several properties and turn them into what was Villa Teresa. From there they also staffed a number of Catholic Schools. Over time they grew but in the 70;s to the present their numbers shrank as they attracted less and less women. Older sisters died so the numbers have shrank to what it is today. As I stated in an above post there are other forms of consecrated life for women besides being religious. There are some religious communities in other parts of the country that are in deed growing.

Also note that the shrine parish is going to attract the rapidly growing Catholic hispanic population. The parishes on the south side have been busting at the seems so a much larger church building as well as other buildings is needed.

Took my grandson to DPS off I-240 and Shields Blvd., to take his driver's test. Went by the Rother Shrine Church, the church and
Tepeyac Hill replica are visible from 89th Street. On the way back we took I-35 north from Moore and you could see the Church from the expressway.

Simply breath taking view of this $50 million Shrine and Church. ODOT needs to begin work on I-35 signage directions to the Rother Shrine complex.

This was bit surprising. The Archdioces of Oklahoma City is renovating an old building to the west of the church into a building with classrooms named Santo Toribio Romo Annex to BSR Shrine.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/100+SE+89th+St,+Oklahoma+City,+OK+73149/@35.3763483,-97.5059079,469m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x87b21461fcb5b055:0xc4e37 638f1c6083e!8m2!3d35.3765984!4d-97.507872!16s%2Fg%2F11bw49xd9x?entry=ttu

This was bit surprising. The Archdioces of Oklahoma City is renovating an old building to the west of the church into a building with classrooms named Santo Toribio Romo Annex to BSR Shrine.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/100+SE+89th+St,+Oklahoma+City,+OK+73149/@35.3763483,-97.5059079,469m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x87b21461fcb5b055:0xc4e37 638f1c6083e!8m2!3d35.3765984!4d-97.507872!16s%2Fg%2F11bw49xd9x?entry=ttu

That is quick information. I sold them that building and we just closed two days ago late in afternoon. It was nice to get money back from the church after paying catholic school tuition for three

BTW, Discover Oklahoma had a nice piece about the Shrine on last Sat's show.

Is it the old RC club ?

Is it the old RC club ?

Yes. We bought it from them and remodeled it

This was bit surprising. The Archdioces of Oklahoma City is renovating an old building to the west of the church into a building with classrooms named Santo Toribio Romo Annex to BSR Shrine.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/100+SE+89th+St,+Oklahoma+City,+OK+73149/@35.3763483,-97.5059079,469m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x87b21461fcb5b055:0xc4e37 638f1c6083e!8m2!3d35.3765984!4d-97.507872!16s%2Fg%2F11bw49xd9x?entry=ttu

Interesting...I thought there was still going to be another new building built on the campus to mirror the museum and gift shop building

Interesting...I thought there was still going to be another new building built on the campus to mirror the museum and gift shop building

I believe that is still in plans to build an educational building at some point but was under the impression that this met a short term need and would give them more time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXu2d3Tpw6A