For example, for one particular project, I think I pledged $1000 over five years, so it's coming out of my bank at like $5/wk. Sure I could cancel that recurring payment, and break my pledge, but barring that, they're going to get their $1000 I "pledged".

It's going to be a beautiful shrine but I wish it was in a more beautiful place. That area is rather industrial with auto shops and lumber yard across the street. Also, there's a sex shop on the corner and a bar next to that.

Like Okarche? Where Rother was actually from?

http://www.ourladyofvictory.org/content/images/Museum_Tours/OLVfinal_crop550.jpg
The proposed basiicila will be larger yet similar to Our Lady of Victory, National Shine & Basilica (Father Nelson Baker Shrine) in Lackawanna, NY
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/791/26509816957_70a7217b07_b.jpg


The growth of the Roman Catholic Church is prolific on our south side with enormous growth in parishes like St. James the Greater, Sacred Heart, Little Flower, Holy Angels, Immaculate Conception, St. Paul Apostle (Del City), St. Philip Neri (MWC); these churches can't expand fast enough.

Kudos to our archdioceses. Hope they decide to make the basilica a cathedral for the Oklahoma City archdioceses. There is a need for a mega 2,000 seat basilica in Oklahoma City & a Shine for Father Stanley Rother. My hope is that Pope Francis will be here for the dedication & beatification ceremonies.

This will be one of the largest Roman Catholic Churches in the west south central region.

So I was visiting some friends out in Buffalo, NY last week and, while on our way to the Buffalo and Erie Botanical Gardens, happened to get to see the exterior of the Our Lady of Victory Basilica... If the one built here looks anything like the one in Lackawanna, the building will be stunningly gorgeous. I'm a little sad that ours won't be anywhere near as visible to passersby - the Our Lady of Victory Basilica is right on the corner of a relatively busy intersection so it really really stands out - but it should still be really, really pretty.

^ i'm thinking the complex will have pretty good visibility from i-35...

^ i'm thinking the complex will have pretty good visibility from i-35...

Just used Google Maps to double check my recollection of the view from I-35... People will likely be able to see the dome and the parapets/towers (not sure of the proper name) but they won't get to see any detail unless they intentionally drive onto the property. What impressed me so much about Our Lady of Victory was how huge and immediate it felt just driving by it, because it's literally at the corner of the intersection. The details of the architecture pop out at you as you drive through the intersection. It's an amazing way to show it off. I'm sure ours will still be beautiful regardless, though.

Just used Google Maps to double check my recollection of the view from I-35...

yeah... i just checked google maps for myself and you're right. due to the overpass on 89th, i was thinking that this section of 35 was higher above grade than what it really is. the strip centers along the frontage road really obstruct the view.

^ i'm thinking the complex will have pretty good visibility from i-35...
Because of the size of this structure it will be highly visible from I-35.

.

https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960_blur-79414743cfc9282bca677ea1a04460a5.jpg
The Boldt Co. will join design architects Franck and Lohsen, of Washington, D.C., and project architects ADG, of Oklahoma City.
The shrine will include a 2,000-seat church, a 200-seat chapel, a museum and a pilgrim center, which will tell the story of Rother’s life and martyrdom. An event center and education building will be added in front of the main church.
“The committee found The Boldt Company leadership to be highly capable and good communicators with a deep understanding of the mission and purpose of the shrine,” Molly Bernard, chairman of the shrine selection committee, said in a news release...


Capital campaign continues

Funding for the shrine is part of the archdiocese’s first-ever capital campaign entitled “One Church, Many Disciples.”

Construction of the shrine is the central element of the $65 million campaign.

To date, the campaign has raised more than $56 million, and Coakley recently announced a challenge goal of $80 million.

About $39 million of the total will be put toward completing the church and shrine.

Peter de Keratry, executive director of stewardship and development for the archdiocese said if the campaign continues its success, and pledges are paid over time, the archdiocese expects to be able to break ground on the shrine in early 2020.

Archdiocese selects company to build Rother shrine: http://digital.newsok.com/Olive/ODN/Oklahoman/default.aspx

Oklahoma City Catholic Archdiocese surpasses fundraising goal for Rother shrine

https://newsok.com/article/5608762/oklahoma-city-catholic-archdiocese-surpasses-fundraising-goal-for-rother-shrine

The gold course has been closed for few months and one building was torn down.

Does somebody have a timeline of what is coming to share ?

What is next ?

The gold course has been closed for few months and one building was torn down.

Does somebody have a timeline of what is coming to share ?

What is next ?

that's a really good question.. i drove by the other day, and kept thinking how different this area is going to look in a few years. curious when anything will actually get started on it

My understanding is that the project is currently in the middle of about a year of pre-construction (value added designs, planning, regular design, budgeting, etc.) . What I've heard for a realistic expectation is for the project to start late Q4 this year.

https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960_blur-79414743cfc9282bca677ea1a04460a5.jpg

https://francklohsen.com/images/resized/images/uploads/blessed-stanley-rother-shrine/blessed-stanley-rother-5_1351_938_80.jpg

According to the Sooner Catholic (March 10, 2019 p. 3) the Father Stanley Rother Shine & 2,000 seat Basilica ONE CHURCH, MANY DISCIPLES has exceeded its challenge goal of $80 million with $81,568,843 gifts/pledges to date 102%.

Sooner Catholic: https://ecatholic-sites.s3.amazonaws.com/20256/documents/2019/3/Sooner%20Catholic%203-10-19.pdf

awesome... maybe this will start soon. i think think this will look amazing from I-35 as i drive by everyday.

awesome... maybe this will start soon. i think think this will look amazing from I-35 as i drive by everyday.

Will not start until late Quarter 4 of 2019

https://twitter.com/okbizeditor/status/1160685296712933376

https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-WDNBJbMI_5iM-fKfocCTh3AZKSYGDrHzUIMX7EAqFF5-zC5wHFBAKOm5Dy36RzTc6F676llwJijNHGM9Rx73ng/messages/@.id==AGfE4n51yUjqXVQUtwwZqMBgjX4/content/parts/@.id==2/thumbnail?appId=YMailNorrin&downloadWhenThumbnailFails=true&pid=2
Oklahoman, August 14, 2019

A shrine to the former Okarche priest who was murdered in Guatemala is one step closer to reality.

The Most Rev. Paul S. Coakley, archbishop of the Catholic Archdiocese of Oklahoma City, on Tuesday announced that the groundbreaking for the Blessed Stanley Rother Shrine will be Nov. 3. at SW 89 and Interstate 35.

The event from 3 to 5 p.m. will include children's and family activities. It is free and open to the public.

Rother was serving as a priest with the Oklahoma City Diocese when he was killed in his parish rectory in Santiago Atitlan, Guatemala.

“The groundbreaking for the shrine will be a significant moment in the life of the Church in Oklahoma and for the broader community,” Coakley said. “The shrine is being built to honor Blessed Stanley Rother, an Oklahoma original and the first U.S.-born priest and martyr ever beatified. It will be a place of pilgrimage where the faithful will come from near and far to honor Blessed Stanley at his final resting place and to seek his intercession for their many needs. It will be a place of welcome, serving all people.”

The $40 million shrine will include a 2,000-seat church, a chapel where Blessed Stanley will be buried, an education building, an event space and several areas designated for shrines and devotion. The Spanish colonial-style church will be the largest Catholic church in Oklahoma. The property also will include a $5 museum and pilgrim center where visitors will get an experience that leads them through the life, witness and martyrdom of Blessed Stanley, the archdiocese said in a news release. The church will help accommodate the growing Hispanic population whose parishes are significantly overcrowded, the release said.

Design architect for the project is Franck & Lohsen Architects in Washington, D.C., supported by the local architectural firm ADG. The general contractor is The Boldt Company in Oklahoma City with Cooper Project Advisors serving as the owner’s representative. To RSVP for the groundbreaking, email rsvp@archokc.org. Tickets are not required.

The Oklahoman articles are getting better.

But still, only thing left out is how long it will take to complete the shrine. ....

The Oklahoman articles are getting better.

But still, only thing left out is how long it will take to complete the shrine. ....

Oklahoman articles are getting better? Pete, The Gazette & The Oklahoma City Free Press may have a lot to do with that.

Met Father Rother the year he spent at Corpus Christi Catholic Church in OKC. Found him to be a very concerned person, firm, fair, serious faithful & helpful always greeted you with respect; smiled and a genuine person on the up-and-up; more serious and concerned than most priests I've met, truly an impact person who made a difference in the lives he touched.

The Rother Shine & Basilica will be a $100 million project that will combine beauty, art & simplicity for a basilica, a characteristic of Father Rother, an ordinary man; it will make the south side an enclave for visitors, guests, pilgrims, poor, rich, pure in heart & curiosity seekers from far and wide.

Father Rother, an ordinary man, a good shepherd who knew his flock. The Shine & Basilica will be a testament, shine & memorial in remembrance of a man who blended with the fold.

An interesting article about the Shrine here:

Building on a Prayer
https://www.constructor-digital.com/ngcs/0419_july_august_2019/MobilePagedArticle.action?articleId=1503677

Building $100 million basilicas while sitting on the findings of "independent" investigations into clergy sex abuse.I wonder what Rother would have thought about that.

We Catholics that donated the money for the shrine, donated it for the shrine to be built. The Archdiocese did not take it out of some hidden bank account to build it.

The Rother Shine & Basilica will be a $100 million project that will combine beauty, art & simplicity for a basilica, a characteristic of Father Rother, an ordinary man; it will make the south side an enclave for visitors, guests, pilgrims, poor, rich, pure in heart & curiosity seekers from far and wide.

Father Rother, an ordinary man, a good shepherd who knew his flock. The Shine & Basilica will be a testament, shine & memorial in remembrance of a man who blended with the fold.
I believe he would condemn abusers and those that aid them whether Catholic, Baptist, non-denominational, teachers, priests, preacher, or parents. At the same time he honored the saints before him.

The issues are totally separate as much as the haters want to conflate them.

Are there examples of him condemning abusers? After all, these things were happening during his time 50+ years ago, too.

Are there examples of him condemning abusers? After all, these things were happening during his time 50+ years ago, too.

You obviously have no idea who Rother was or what he stood for. Making controversial statements trying to sow doubts about a truly holy man is small indeed, or worse.

Correct. I have no idea who Rother was or what he stood for. It was an honest question with no ulterior motives. Do such examples exist? If so, it would be kind of you to provide one or two.

Correct. I have no idea who Rother was or what he stood for. It was an honest question with no ulterior motives. Do such examples exist? If so, it would be kind of you to provide one or two.

I know it sounds crazy today, but sexual abuse was not a top of mind subject back in the era Father Rother was alive. It would be easy for me to believe that he was never in a position that required a direct statement. Although, I believe his life story that I have read suggests that he was a pure heart that was opposed to all human abuse and indignity.

Thanks, Dob. I read a bit about Rother since this morning. While I did not find any examples of him speaking out about abuses by the church, he did speak out about atrocities that our government was committing at the time. He was absolutely correct about what was going on and that's what got him killed. The Oklahoma Gazette did a fairly detailed profile in 2006 for anyone who is interested in his story:

Heart of a martyr (https://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/heart-of-a-martyr/Content?oid=2947451)

Does anyone have a transcript of the March 1981 homily described in the article?

I also recommend this book for a history of Father Rother https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NLCPVDB/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
I was a teenager at McGuinness when Father Rother was killed. I have also attended St Charles Borromeo for most of my life. Our parish helped support his mission in Guatemala while he was alive so we were very much aware of how he was risking his life by staying. The part our government played in the Guatemalan civil war is disturbing to say the least.

Mayor to join Rother shrine groundbreaking


http://digital.newsok.com/Olive/ODN/Oklahoman/get/DOK-2019-10-26/image.ashx?kind=block&href=DOK%2F2019%2F10%2F26&id=Pc0100100&ext=.jpg&ts=20191026132916
(pic, Oklahoman 10-26-19 Saturday edition)

Mayor David Holt will participant in the groundbreaking for the Blessed Stanley Rother Shrine set for 3 p.m. Nov. 3 at SE 89, between Shields Boulevard and Interstate 35.

The ceremonial groundbreaking by the Oklahoma Roman Catholic leaders will signal the construction of the Blessed Father Stanley Rother Shine & the 2,000 seat Roman Catholic Church Basilica planned for Oklahoma City.

“It will be a place of pilgrimage where the faithful will come from near and far to honor Blessed Stanley at his final resting place and to seek his intercession for their many needs. It will be a place of welcome, serving all people,” Archbishop Coakley said.

Link: http://digital.newsok.com/Olive/ODN/Oklahoman/default.aspx

Does the catholic bible have Exodus 20:4 ? Or is that just words from the Ancient Past? Spend more time on these things than what Christ actually wants us to do.

That's difference in the faith brian. I'm not Catholic and not a fan of Catholicism, but time spent ridiculing other denomination is not time well spent. Catholics out there, please correct me if i'm wrong here, but this is NOT idolatry. They pray THROUGH the saints because the view is that man does not pray directly to God. The saints are merely a means to the end. In Protestantism, we don't understand that because we have a different, and more direct, relationship where we do talk directly to God.

You can dig whatever you want out of whatever translation of the Bible that you want, and it will either help or hurt whatever argument you have. That's why we have denominations and partly why we have the split between Catholicism and Protestantism. At the end of the day, we're all part of the same team though. So why try to "prove them wrong"?

This campus is going to be a value-added project for Christianity regardless of what group is building. It's going to serve the community in ways that the Catholic Church cannot in OKC right now. We should be happy for them.

It's called intercessory prayer. It's no different than asking your friends to pray for your mom in the hospital.

That's difference in the faith brian. I'm not Catholic and not a fan of Catholicism, but time spent ridiculing other denomination is not time well spent. Catholics out there, please correct me if i'm wrong here, but this is NOT idolatry. They pray THROUGH the saints because the view is that man does not pray directly to God. The saints are merely a means to the end. In Protestantism, we don't understand that because we have a different, and more direct, relationship where we do talk directly to God.

You can dig whatever you want out of whatever translation of the Bible that you want, and it will either help or hurt whatever argument you have. That's why we have denominations and partly why we have the split between Catholicism and Protestantism. At the end of the day, we're all part of the same team though. So why try to "prove them wrong"?

This campus is going to be a value-added project for Christianity regardless of what group is building. It's going to serve the community in ways that the Catholic Church cannot in OKC right now. We should be happy for them.

As a Catholic you certainly can and are taught and encouraged to pray directly to God. Asking the Saints to intercede is like asking Mom to talk to Dad on your behalf. You certainly can talk to Dad directly and may have a great relationship, but it doesn't hurt if Mom is on your side too.

There are so many misconceptions spread about the Catholic faith it is hard to believe it is done innocently. Misrepresentations have been spread for hundreds of years, particularly by Protestants trying to discredit the church based in Rome.

Years ago as a young Catholic we were discouraged from attending events at other denominations (not so today), but it only led to ignorance and spread falsehoods. It is much better that people actually find out what the REAL beliefs of other faiths are before spreading gossip and falsehoods.

It's called intercessory prayer. It's no different than asking your friends to pray for your mom in the hospital.

Yes. Most of my Protestant friends regularly ask me to pray for things for them. I am sure this is in addition to them praying directly to God, not instead of. And, I doubt they think I have more pull than they do. :)

I have friends that are Catholic too. So my questions are what is definition of Catholicism ? And is the Pope Christ on earth?

I have friends that are Catholic too. So my questions are what is definition of Catholicism ? And is the Pope, Christ on earth?

The Catholic (meaning "universal") church is believed to be the one church founded by Christ. It traces it's origins directly to Peter from whom all legitimate Popes descended. Cardinals are descended from Christ's Apostles. Other Christian denominations split from the Catholic Church because of doctrinal or political differences, and sometimes social. The Orthodox Church contests which is the true descendant church, but they both started from the same place. Many believe it is semantics whether the Orthodox split from the Catholics or the Catholics from the Orthodox. They went their separate ways, but share most doctrinal beliefs.

No, the Pope isn't Christ or God and no one claims he is. He is head of the Catholic Church. He is believed to be the current in the uninterrupted line of succession from St. Peter, a direct charge of Jesus. Other denominations and faiths have other structures to lead them which may or may not rest the final authority in a singular person.

The Catholic (meaning "universal") church is believed to be the one church founded by Christ. It traces it's origins directly to Peter from whom all legitimate Popes descended. Cardinals are descended from Christ's Apostles. Other Christian denominations split from the Catholic Church because of doctrinal or political differences, and sometimes social. The Orthodox Church contests which is the true descendant church, but they both started from the same place. Many believe it is semantics whether the Orthodox split from the Catholics or the Catholics from the Orthodox. They went their separate ways, but share most doctrinal beliefs.

No, the Pope isn't Christ or God and no one claims he is. He is head of the Catholic Church. He is believed to be the current in the uninterrupted line of succession from St. Peter, a direct charge of Jesus. Other denominations and faiths have other structures to lead them which may or may not rest the final authority in a singular person. Seems to me that the Catholic faith is more based on merits and rituals than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, it just gives that impression

Seems to me that the Catholic faith is more based on merits and rituals than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, it just gives that impression

What’s your point?

Seems to me that the Catholic faith is more based on merits and rituals than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, it just gives that impressionsounds like to me your just bitching for no reason

Seems to me that the Catholic faith is more based on merits and rituals than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, it just gives that impression
Sounds like you know absolutely nothing about it. But spreading falsehoods is fun, right?
But maybe you are just saying that because you mistake works done because of faith for ones done to try to earn points with God. If going to church to worship God and praying is ritual only then I guess the real Christians are those who don’t go to church, don’t pray, judge others, and are arrogant enough to believe that they alone possess the keys to God.

Does the catholic bible have Exodus 20:4 ? Or is that just words from the Ancient Past? Spend more time on these things than what Christ actually wants us to do.

The Catholic bible has seven more books than the protestant bible. Yes, Exodus 20:4 is there, and this shrine is not what that scripture was about.

That's difference in the faith brian. I'm not Catholic and not a fan of Catholicism, but time spent ridiculing other denomination is not time well spent. Catholics out there, please correct me if i'm wrong here, but this is NOT idolatry. They pray THROUGH the saints because the view is that man does not pray directly to God. The saints are merely a means to the end. In Protestantism, we don't understand that because we have a different, and more direct, relationship where we do talk directly to God.

You can dig whatever you want out of whatever translation of the Bible that you want, and it will either help or hurt whatever argument you have. That's why we have denominations and partly why we have the split between Catholicism and Protestantism. At the end of the day, we're all part of the same team though. So why try to "prove them wrong"?

This campus is going to be a value-added project for Christianity regardless of what group is building. It's going to serve the community in ways that the Catholic Church cannot in OKC right now. We should be happy for them.

You are close... we ask the saints to pray for us. Being raised protestant and coming into the Catholic church 8 years ago it took me a while to understand what that really meant. However, we do pray directly to God through the Our Father prayer, and through our prayer intentions for those in need of prayer. And you are correct, we are all brothers and sisters in Christ.

I have friends that are Catholic too. So my questions are what is definition of Catholicism ? And is the Pope, Christ on earth?

The Pope is not Christ on Earth. The Pope is the authority over the church on Earth and that authority is given through Christ. Catholic is derived from Greek meaning "universal". She holds the traditions and practices from the church's beginning, including the sacraments of communion, baptism, reconciliation, marriage, the holy orders, annointing of sick.

Sounds like you know absolutely nothing about it. But spreading falsehoods is fun, right?
But maybe you are just saying that because you mistake works done because of faith for ones done to try to earn points with God. If going to church to worship God and praying is ritual only then I guess the real Christians are those who don’t go to church, don’t pray, judge others, and are arrogant enough to believe that they alone possess the keys to God. No spreading falsehoods, just asking questions.

Seems to me that the Catholic faith is more based on merits and rituals than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, it just gives that impression

The Catholic faith is not based on merits at all. It is a celebration of the liturgy of the word and the liturgy of the eucharist. In my 8 years as a Catholic there isn't any merits... at all. The faith's practice... liturgy of the word, the eucharist, reconciliation, adoration... all of it is ordered to strengthen your personal relationship with Christ. The focus is not on the traditions themselves, but ultimately what is achieved... staying in a state of grace with Christ.

The fundamental different has always been that Protestants believe in being saved by faith alone, and Catholics believe in being saved by faith and works... works meaning helping the poor, visiting those in prison, etc.

Don't hesitate to PM me if you have any questions.

The Catholic faith is not based on merits at all. It is a celebration of the liturgy of the word and the liturgy of the eucharist. In my 8 years as a Catholic there isn't any merits... at all. The faith's practice... liturgy of the word, the eucharist, reconciliation, adoration... all of it is ordered to strengthen your personal relationship with Christ. The focus is not on the traditions themselves, but ultimately what is achieved... staying in a state of grace with Christ.

The fundamental different has always been that Protestants believe in being saved by faith alone, and Catholics believe in being saved by faith and works... works meaning helping the poor, visiting those in prison, etc.

Don't hesitate to PM me if you have any questions.

I might offer that the Catholics also believe in salvation through faith, but the works are the result of the faith. They are a symptom, not the reason for salvation. Basically, it says that if you are saved you should want to act correspondingly. Acts don’t replace faith.

Again not a Catholic (I'm Disciples of Christ and pretty hardcore against the whole Catholic organization), but seems like (and this shouldn't surprise anyone here) that a lot of people outside of Catholicism have a misunderstanding about a lot of the points of the faith and have developed their own opinions without truly understanding it. The whole merit/confession/etc thing is VERY misunderstood, as well as the saints, which is what started this whole mess on the previous page. I'm not going to pretend to understand it all myself, but i'm also not going to ridicule. They're on the same team I am here. But i wouldn't spend time ridiculing another non-Christian faith either....what purpose does that serve except to give Christianity a bad name? We're supposed to be the reflected light of the Lord and that behavior would fades that reflection.

But i'll go back to my previous statement, what does that have to do with building this structure? The Universal Church covers both Catholic and Protestant. Most Protestant denominations even include phrases in believing in the "Holy Catholic Church" in some of the hymnal prayers. If you don't know what that means, i would high encourage you to do some research on it through some REPUTABLE sources. Again, this campus is going to help serve more people in a single facility than can currently fit in multiple facilities. If you've ever been in places like First Presbyterian Church on Western, you can appreciate the grandeur of the large structure for a service. The resources to help the community from consolidating the efforts makes a big impact too.

I'm not a fan of the design chosen, BUT it more accurately reflects who this person was and what his mission work focused on. A Gothic structure wouldn't make any sense!

Ground has broken on this project!

https://www.news9.com/story/41265315/catholic-leaders-break-ground-on-shrine-for-honored-priest

http://www.cooperpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Church-Exterior-1-1100x619.jpg

https://archokc.org/pictures/2019/3/Camera4.jpg
Blessed Father Stanley Rother Shrine
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/mZNqAdsYxH8KBfC5zXyf0bXnWVdCW47qnOQ5G8OFWOhPfSGM5B YZDdHA_M6y_lm9D5VMbo1X6y0evXYhXmlezErfUXFvvIwLxEnl 81t_4kj3tEbFaf975ef3WSEJcg

https://archokc.org/photoalbums/bl-stanley-rother-shrine/Altar%20and%20Reredos.jpg

Oklahoma City's Basilica will be the largest Roman Catholic Church in Oklahoma.

https://archokc.org/photoalbums/bl-stanley-rother-shrine/Sanctuary2.jpg

Hello,

They have been clearing and leveling the site with heavy equipment for over a week now.

Good to see some projects going forward and people working in these complicated period.

Seems to me that the Catholic faith is more based on merits and rituals than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, it just gives that impression

Much more complex than that--and it kind of sounds like the greatest exposure to the Church you have had has been what some highly biased and ill-informed minister told you at some point. Catholic doctrine is a combination of scripture and tradition and there is a huge diversity of opinion within the Catholic church as to what is true and what is not. For example, the Catholic Church does not subscribe to the idea that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. And to get in to what the official position is, you'd almost have to be a lawyer with some sort of database access to the conclusions of various figureheads--and that'd still be open to interpretation.

It's one of the things I really appreciate about the Church--rather than simply accepting everything at face value, there is a lot of debate and consideration and scholarship and philosophizing over just about every concept imaginable. You probably wouldn't find too many Catholics, for example, who would be all that comfortable with someone proof-texting them to prove some sort of doctrinal point and much of that work was done by some of the Western world's greatest historical thinkers. Folks like St. Jerome, St. Thomas Aquinas, etc.

I really appreciate my Catholic education and the opportunity to do such deep dives into Church history and philosophy. An understanding of Church history is an understanding of Western European history, and you can't really have one without the other.

Seems to me that the Catholic faith is more based on merits and rituals than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, it just gives that impression
That’s sounds pretty hateful. Are you an evangelical?
It’s comments like that which make me glad I don’t go to baptist church anymore.

Any chance we can keep thread dedicated to construction updates?

Work has started and is beginning to go into full swing. This project will be larger than a lot of people realize. I wish we had better streets in this area.

Any chance we can keep thread dedicated to construction updates?

Work has started and is beginning to go into full swing. This project will be larger than a lot of people realize. I wish we had better streets in this area.
It will be a few hundred feet west of I-35.

It will be a few hundred feet west of I-35.

And bounded by 4 lane SE 89th on the north and 6 lane divided S Shields on the west. You've obviously never been in this area.

I predict many of the properties on the east end facing I-35 will one by one disappear. I expect the church to acquire every property all way up to the Countryside Village. They will either get it through direct purchase or someone in the church purchasing it and donating it to the church. A church that size is going to need access from every direction it can get.