Anyone know why a Krogers affiliated store isn't in our market?

Anyone know why a Krogers affiliated store isn't in our market?
I graduated from high school with David Dillon, who was the CEO of Dillons/Krogers. I believe he is retired now. I last save Dave at our 40yr class reunion. At that time he was CEO and living in Cincinnati, hdqrs of Krogers. He has since back back to Hutchinson, I think. His grandfather started the Dillons stores in Sterling, Ks, many years ago. They, Dillons were hdqrd in Hutchinson. They were then bought out by Krogers and much of the operation went to Cinci. Anyway, I asked him at our last class reunion if they would ever be coming into Oklahoma, and, he said at that time just didn't seem to be a good fit for them. Whatever that means. IDK?

Whether we like it or not, Kroger is decidedly middle-market. It's not trying to be a deep discounter nor is it trying to compete with Whole Foods on wagyu beef, kale chips, and quinoa. The average Kroger reminds me of a slightly upscale Homeland, and we've seen that Homeland has been reeling a bit in OKC. Kroger is also similar to Homeland in that it allows certain stores to age rather disgracefully. Although it seems like that is a choice driven by the level of competition faced in each market.

In any event, It's just tough sledding for any grocer trying to thread the needle between discounting and selling rare granolas. When you add in OKC's commodity risk, it's easy to appreciate the CEO's concerns about fit.

And yet Crest seems to be doing quite well, and Winco, though it may settle down in time, is off the charts. I think the 'risk' in OKC is if you half-ass it like Homeland, so if that's what Kroger would do, then yeah, I can see why they're afraid.

And yet Crest seems to be doing quite well, and Winco, though it may settle down in time, is off the charts. I think the 'risk' in OKC is if you half-ass it like Homeland, so if that's what Kroger would do, then yeah, I can see why they're afraid.

Of course, but Crest ("rock bottom prices") and Winco (no bagging, no credit cards, etc.) fall firmly within the discounter classification.

I'm sure Kroger would do fine here, but most of the players recently entering the OKC market have skewed to the high end or to discounting.

Yeah, it's been pointed out many times... in general the only stuff that does well here is deep discount. You have your one Whole Foods in the most expensive metro zip code and so on, but in general this does ring true. If you think about the organic options we have even those are sort of at the discount end of the spectrum and their company mottos pretty much confirm this.

If you categorize Crest and Winco with Aldi, then you are most surely free to your opinion, but you're woefully incorrect. If you're going by corporate slogans, Walmart ("beware of falling prices", "everyday low prices", "save money, live better") is also in the same category, as is Target ("get more, pay less"). Isn't the motto of EVERY store (with the exception of Whole Foods, who wears their "Whole Paycheck" label proudly) some variation of "shop here and save"? Including the much-worshipped Trader Joe's, who in a recent radio spot said "Instead of wondering how to make shirt racks fit in the grocery aisle, we’re providing our customers incredible values on interesting products, every day."

https://www.traderjoes.com/digin/post/food-beverages

If you look at the "our story" section of the website, they talk about value and everyday low prices and keeping costs low and saving money. No, I'm sorry, but if we go by corporate buzzwords, everything is a "discounter". My point stands, Kroger would do very well here if they put in some effort, as others have shown. If they half-assed it, they would share Homeland's fate.

There are two big problems with the grocery market in OKC. One is how deeply entrenched Wal-Mart is. While Wal-Mart is stiff competition with mid-tier grocers everywhere, nowhere do they have the kind of market dominance that they do in OKC. The second is the alcohol laws here. Mid-tier grocers are being squeezed from the high end and the low end across the country. Many of them have focused on providing an extensive selection of beer and wine, wine tastings, etc in order to increase their profit because that's a very profitable market. The downtown Harris Teeter in Charlotte, during its early days, focused heavily on its beer/wine section. Problem is in Oklahoma they can't sell wine and they are stuck with 3.2 beer.

I am hoping that within a few years after the new liquor laws go into effect that the grocery market here corrects itself.

If you categorize Crest and Winco with Aldi, then you are most surely free to your opinion, but you're woefully incorrect. If you're going by corporate slogans, Walmart ("beware of falling prices", "everyday low prices", "save money, live better") is also in the same category, as is Target ("get more, pay less"). Isn't the motto of EVERY store (with the exception of Whole Foods, who wears their "Whole Paycheck" label proudly) some variation of "shop here and save"? Including the much-worshipped Trader Joe's, who in a recent radio spot said "Instead of wondering how to make shirt racks fit in the grocery aisle, we’re providing our customers incredible values on interesting products, every day."

https://www.traderjoes.com/digin/post/food-beverages

If you look at the "our story" section of the website, they talk about value and everyday low prices and keeping costs low and saving money. No, I'm sorry, but if we go by corporate buzzwords, everything is a "discounter". My point stands, Kroger would do very well here if they put in some effort, as others have shown. If they half-assed it, they would share Homeland's fate.

I don't know man, I travel a lot and what I see out there in the big wide world is nothing like what you are talking about here. There are tons of chains that focus on, and have buzz words, swirling around quality. You'll never convince me that we're a Denver or a Los Angeles or a take your pick. Considering of every chain I can think of that are the ones that focus on quality over cost, and we have exactly one maybe two of them here and they are both the smallest footprint stores they have in the costliest zip code we have, with exactly one store, I don't see how I'm not right if you take an honest look at the market.

There are two big problems with the grocery market in OKC. One is how deeply entrenched Wal-Mart is. While Wal-Mart is stiff competition with mid-tier grocers everywhere, nowhere do they have the kind of market dominance that they do in OKC. The second is the alcohol laws here. Mid-tier grocers are being squeezed from the high end and the low end across the country. Many of them have focused on providing an extensive selection of beer and wine, wine tastings, etc in order to increase their profit because that's a very profitable market. The downtown Harris Teeter in Charlotte, during its early days, focused heavily on its beer/wine section. Problem is in Oklahoma they can't sell wine and they are stuck with 3.2 beer.

I am hoping that within a few years after the new liquor laws go into effect that the grocery market here corrects itself.

The overriding mindset here is it has to be cheap; I think that hurts the grocery market more than the liquor sales issue. You can see it in the shopping options whether we are talking food or cars or clothing, or if we're talking about our governmental services, or even if we are talking about our historic structures and museums (e.g. the discussion always gets into money... there is never a "for the sake of art/beauty" argument). It's at the same time both this state's strongest point as well as its weakest.

We have a lot of poor people, and so of course value-focused chains are going to be more successful here than in the statistically average city. I think we need to be realistic and come to terms with certain realities here. That does not mean that we cannot have nice things. But I think it does mean we are not going to see a wave of Quality Company X populating every street corner for a long, long time if ever.

When I see Krogers, King Shoopers, Frys, Dillion's, in a lot of the markets I been to, I really think they could invade the okc market with success.

We've been lulled to sleep with Wal mart pricing, sure it may always stay good in some areas but I think you can drive the price of milk, fruits and vegetables and meat down with more competition.

Considering of every chain I can think of that are the ones that focus on quality over cost, and we have exactly one maybe two of them here and they are both the smallest footprint stores they have in the costliest zip code we have, with exactly one store, I don't see how I'm not right if you take an honest look at the market.

Yet better retailers who do take a chance on OKC almost always far outperform expectations.

The OKC market in terms of retail is plagued by two big problems; sprawl and perception.

If you categorize Crest and Winco with Aldi, then you are most surely free to your opinion, but you're woefully incorrect. If you're going by corporate slogans, Walmart ("beware of falling prices", "everyday low prices", "save money, live better") is also in the same category, as is Target ("get more, pay less"). Isn't the motto of EVERY store (with the exception of Whole Foods, who wears their "Whole Paycheck" label proudly) some variation of "shop here and save"? Including the much-worshipped Trader Joe's, who in a recent radio spot said "Instead of wondering how to make shirt racks fit in the grocery aisle, we’re providing our customers incredible values on interesting products, every day."

https://www.traderjoes.com/digin/post/food-beverages

If you look at the "our story" section of the website, they talk about value and everyday low prices and keeping costs low and saving money. No, I'm sorry, but if we go by corporate buzzwords, everything is a "discounter". My point stands, Kroger would do very well here if they put in some effort, as others have shown. If they half-assed it, they would share Homeland's fate.

It's certainly not wrong to say that Winco and Crest are closer to Aldi than they are to Kroger.

From Winco's website:


Bulk Bins – less packaging, big savings, more than 800 items (https://wincofoods.com/departments/bulk-foods/items/) by the pound…need we say more?
No gimmicks – prices are low and you don’t have to jump through hoops to get them. But if you’re looking for even more savings, you find printable coupons here (https://www.wincofoods.com/coupons).
We’re Open for 24 hour Savings, 7 days a week – except certain holidays (https://wincofoods.com/customer-service/faqs/#hours).
You bag your own groceries – this means you can arrange them how you like (find tips (https://wincofoods.com/work/bag-a-lot-of-savings/) here), and know you’re helping keep prices low.
We accept debit cards but do not take credit cards – another way we keep prices so low.


From Crest's website:

We buy direct from 150 manufacturers and the largest supplier in the state.
We do not spend large sums of money on advertising.
Low overhead. Pay no rent. Own our own facilities.
No games, no gimmicks or expensive frills.

Yet better retailers who do take a chance on OKC almost always far outperform expectations.

The OKC market in terms of retail is plagued by two big problems; sprawl and perception.

Agree that merchants always seem to underestimate the OKC market; disagree that sprawl is a problem. It's an *asset*, and it's part of why we're chronically underestimated. We have tremendous population and cost demographics around the west, southwest and south parts of OKC that are seemingly *perpetually* undervalued/underestimated, whether its for retail sales, restaurants, what-have-you. I think that misperception extends all the way down to the Norman area - there's a new LaMadeleine's going in that I think is too small and will *easily* outperform expectations when it opens - but it's taken that chain *years* to get into the central OK market for almost certainly those very same reasons.

Sprawl is something WalMart has recognized as an OKC asset and one they also recognize other retailers have overlooked and miscalculated, hence their decision to plop down grocery stores seemingly every 2,500 feet (sarcasm intended). They get it. They see all that money just waiting to be spent, and they're glad to take it where other retailers don't believe it exists. WalMart is laughing all the way to the bank.

People in the OKC area will pay for quality - to a point - and I think Crest is a model for precisely the kind of balance between low-end, no-name places like Aldi's and higher-margin places like Whole Foods. Crest has, *generally*, very good prices, but they're not some cheapskate operation; they have a meat counter, deli, sushi station, cheese market, and bakery. Homeland tried variations on that for *years* with their model and couldn't make it work without the worst prices in town, and guess what - they're all but dead here. Crest has figured out something that other retailers would be smart to emulate.

It's certainly not wrong to say that Winco and Crest are closer to Aldi than they are to Kroger.


So? No offense, but drawing a comparison and a subsequent conclusion in that manner is like saying the Earth is closer to the sun than Neptune, therefore the Earth is more like the sun.

To put Crest and Aldi's in even remotely the same basket is absurd on its face - Aldi's retail model is *entirely* different, with the no-name knockoffs being their raison d'etre for existing and offering the lower prices, on top of their barely-more-than-shelves-and-walls stores. Their interior feel is more like a bad 7-11 than a grocery store, to say nothing of the absence of such things like bakeries and meat counters. Not even an apples-to-oranges comparison; more like an apples to pancakes comparison. Yup, they're both grocery stores, but beyond that...

So? No offense, but drawing a comparison and a subsequent conclusion in that manner is like saying the Earth is closer to the sun than Neptune, therefore the Earth is more like the sun.

To put Crest and Aldi's in even remotely the same basket is absurd on its face - Aldi's retail model is *entirely* different, with the no-name knockoffs being their raison d'etre for existing and offering the lower prices, on top of their barely-more-than-shelves-and-walls stores. Their interior feel is more like a bad 7-11 than a grocery store, to say nothing of the absence of such things like bakeries and meat counters. Not even an apples-to-oranges comparison; more like an apples to pancakes comparison. Yup, they're both grocery stores, but beyond that...

Perhaps you are right insofar as store experience is concerned. However, I just don't consider Crest to be middle market. It's prices for most items are similar to or even better than Walmart, and it's fair to think of Walmart as a discounter.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-levitte/cheapest-place-to-buy-gro_b_5039301.html

Agree that merchants always seem to underestimate the OKC market; disagree that sprawl is a problem. It's an *asset*, and it's part of why we're chronically underestimated. We have tremendous population and cost demographics around the west, southwest and south parts of OKC that are seemingly *perpetually* undervalued/underestimated, whether its for retail sales, restaurants, what-have-you. I think that misperception extends all the way down to the Norman area - there's a new LaMadeleine's going in that I think is too small and will *easily* outperform expectations when it opens - but it's taken that chain *years* to get into the central OK market for almost certainly those very same reasons.

I think where sprawl becomes an issue is because, as has been discussed on this board before, most retailers when deciding a location will figure up how much money is concentrated within a 1, 5, and 15 mile radius of a specific location. OKC's sprawl results in these numbers coming in much lower than most comparable markets. As a result, retailers tend to pass over OKC while entering similar sized and even smaller markets. What retailers don't figure in is that people in OKC will typically drive farther to a destination than in most comparable markets.

Perhaps you are right insofar as store experience is concerned. However, I just don't consider Crest to be middle market. It's prices for most items are similar to or even better than Walmart, and it's fair to think of Walmart as a discounter.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-levitte/cheapest-place-to-buy-gro_b_5039301.html

Crest's locations in SW OKC and in Norman both present themselves as solid, middle-tier grocery stores. Those stores remind me very much of a Kroger or Harris Teeter. Their older stores are a notch below that but I would still consider them to be above an Aldi.

I lived 2 minutes from a Kroger for several years and all grocery stores to me all the same. Some things are going to be cheaper, some things are going to be more expensive, some things price the same. I think Crest has really good prices but I wish they did an ad. I know it saves them money but even online ad would be great. I think Wal-mart grocery are higher price and I never shop there. Braum's produce is better and cheaper than walmart. What I wish we really had was a Meijer. I'm afraid we are too far south for that though. :(

Crest's locations in SW OKC and in Norman both present themselves as solid, middle-tier grocery stores. Those stores remind me very much of a Kroger or Harris Teeter. Their older stores are a notch below that but I would still consider them to be above an Aldi.

This is a good point. A Crest in SW OKC could be considered a middle-market grocer, whereas a Crest in Edmond will almost always look like a discounter.

This is a good point. A Crest in SW OKC could be considered a middle-market grocer, whereas a Crest in Edmond will almost always look like a discounter.

I think you actually missed the point. It's not that the stores are located in certain areas but moreso, how the stores were built and the condition of the stores. The SW OKC and Norman locations are nice and newer stores compared to other locations in town. Not sure if you visited the various locations.

I think you actually missed the point. It's not that the stores are located in certain areas but moreso, how the stores were built and the condition of the stores. The SW OKC and Norman locations are nice and newer stores compared to other locations in town. Not sure if you visited the various locations.

We can go round and round on this all we like, but it's not going to change the fact that Crest holds itself out to consumers as a discounter. Perhaps you haven't visited enough middle-market grocers.

http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapid=4276651
http://www.news9.com/story/10036585/whos-cheaper-the-hunt-for-grocery-bargains
http://newsok.com/article/2713349

We can go round and round on this all we like, but it's not going to change the fact that Crest holds itself out to consumers as a discounter. Perhaps you haven't visited enough middle-market grocers.

http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapid=4276651
http://www.news9.com/story/10036585/whos-cheaper-the-hunt-for-grocery-bargains
http://newsok.com/article/2713349

I'm not trying to go round and round with you. Just think you're a little bit off base when classifying Crest. The tier of a grocery store, IMO, has a lot more to do than just pricing. It's also about customer service, cleanliness, services offered, etc. Im 99% certain that I've been in many more grocery stores than you have low-end to high-end. My wife and I used to exclusively shop at Tom Thumb, and when comparing it to the Norman Crest, place was a dump.

Well this thread turned into a "Crap on OKC" fest.

Well this thread turned into a "Crap on OKC" fest.

Yeah, pretty much. It seems there are two main camps. Kroger's isn't in OKC because they don't want to put in the work to succeed, or Kroger's isn't in OKC because they're too good for us. Like I said, people are entitled to their opinion, even when it has been proven incorrect. Others came in, did the work and are doing quite well, so rather than admit they were wrong people just crap on the ones who came to town and did the work.

Personally, as far as I'm concerned the thread was over and true hearts revealed when "What SW OKC considers cool would be considered gauche in Edmond" was thrown into the ring. That told me everything I need to know. It also told me that poster seems unaware that Crest's offices are in Edmond and a second store is being built there, so...

Yeah, pretty much. It seems there are two main camps. Kroger's isn't in OKC because they don't want to put in the work to succeed, or Kroger's isn't in OKC because they're too good for us. Like I said, people are entitled to their opinion, even when it has been proven incorrect. Others came in, did the work and are doing quite well, so rather than admit they were wrong people just crap on the ones who came to town and did the work.

Personally, as far as I'm concerned the thread was over and true hearts revealed when "What SW OKC considers cool would be considered gauche in Edmond" was thrown into the ring. That told me everything I need to know. It also told me that poster seems unaware that Crest's offices are in Edmond and a second store is being built there, so...

I can't help you if you think SW OKC is even close to being in the same socioeconomic ballpark as Edmond.

And whether Crest's corporate offices are located in a particular city is completely irrelevant to the question of the store's market position. But I like those Red Herrings. Please keep them coming.

Yeah, pretty much. It seems there are two main camps. Kroger's isn't in OKC because they don't want to put in the work to succeed, or Kroger's isn't in OKC because they're too good for us. Like I said, people are entitled to their opinion, even when it has been proven incorrect. Others came in, did the work and are doing quite well, so rather than admit they were wrong people just crap on the ones who came to town and did the work.

I think the correct answer is that Kroger isn't in OKC because Wal-Mart has too much of a stranglehold on this market. The liquor laws in Oklahoma also play a part as not being able to sell wine or full-strength beer eats into the profitability of a business that already has a very thin profit margin. Kroger isn't in Tulsa either.
Tulsa fortunately has a very high quality local mid-tier grocer, Reasor's, to fill the niche. OKC's counterpart, Homeland, is a disaster. The ideal situation would be for Kroger to buy out Homeland. I don't see that ever coming to fruition though.

not to dereail, but the "new" Reasor's in Brookside (41st and Peoria) is unbelievable!! A "mini-Wegman's". Sure wish there was something equivalent in OKC. . . .

Kroger long ago stopped trying to start from scratch in new markets. The M.O. has been to buy up regional chains and leave them with their original nameplates. With Walmart having grocery stores in pretty much every market, this is actually a smart business move on Kroger's part. They don't drain their financial resources trying to get established in a new market in a business that has razor thin profits. I really think the only way they get involved in this market is if they can get a good deal on one of the higher quality local chains.

I think the correct answer is that Kroger isn't in OKC because Wal-Mart has too much of a stranglehold on this market. The liquor laws in Oklahoma also play a part as not being able to sell wine or full-strength beer eats into the profitability of a business that already has a very thin profit margin. Kroger isn't in Tulsa either.
Tulsa fortunately has a very high quality local mid-tier grocer, Reasor's, to fill the niche. OKC's counterpart, Homeland, is a disaster. The ideal situation would be for Kroger to buy out Homeland. I don't see that ever coming to fruition though.

Truthfully, while I would like to see another national grocer here, I'd much rather see Reasor's or Crest buy Homeland. The new stores that Crest has been building (see Norman and SW OKC) compare very favorably with other mid-tier grocery stores that I've personally experienced in other markets, like Jewel-Osco and King Soopers - but truthfully, their older locations (like their current Edmond store) could use some improvement to make it look and feel like their newer stores.

Truthfully, while I would like to see another national grocer here, I'd much rather see Reasor's or Crest buy Homeland. The new stores that Crest has been building (see Norman and SW OKC) compare very favorably with other mid-tier grocery stores that I've personally experienced in other markets, like Jewel-Osco and King Soopers - but truthfully, their older locations (like their current Edmond store) could use some improvement to make it look and feel like their newer stores.

I agree completely.

I would love to see Reasor's or Crest buy Homeland moreso than Kroger. I agree that the newer Crest stores compare very favorably with the standard grocers in other markets. I do wonder how far OKC is from a downtown grocer or at least one in the urban core. A lot more people are living in the core in 2017 compared to 2010. I definitely think it could be supported, especially since the closest legitimate competition is Wal-Mart at Belle Isle.

. . . Reasor's, absolutely Reasor's. Yes the newer Crest Stores are nicer, but. . .when you look at the older stores, the older Reasor's have them beat by miles.

I can't help you if you think SW OKC is even close to being in the same socioeconomic ballpark as Edmond.

And whether Crest's corporate offices are located in a particular city is completely irrelevant to the question of the store's market position. But I like those Red Herrings. Please keep them coming.

And *you* obviously aren't up on your demographics - do you know where the highest per-capita income demographic in central OK is located? Nope, not Edmond as you incorrectly presume...it's in far SW OKC, in the area served by retail locations like Chatenay Square and populated with homes like Rivendell, Greenbriar, and Lakeridge. What's funny is that this was published in the Oklahoman a couple of years ago, but folks like you just perpetuate the incorrect, almost bigoted notions of what SW OKC is *in your head*. So about those red herrings....

Perhaps you are right insofar as store experience is concerned. However, I just don't consider Crest to be middle market. It's prices for most items are similar to or even better than Walmart, and it's fair to think of Walmart as a discounter.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-levitte/cheapest-place-to-buy-gro_b_5039301.html

Once again, no offense, but we have the fatal logical fallacy in the argument - Crest is cheaper than WalMart, WalMart is a discounter, therefore Crest is a discounter. The argument is just fundamentally flawed. That's like saying my kid is using a crayon, some crayons are red, therefore my kid is using a red crayon. It's as flawed as the previous argument.

How are Crest and WalMart different? Entirely different marketing strategies and business models; Crest doesn't advertise at all. WalMart essentially never owns its own buildings; they develop, rent, then abandon-in-place; Crest owns everything. Yet Crest's in-store experience is miles ahead of WalMart; Crest actively keeps their stores neat and clean, reserves restocking to late hours. Where are they similar? They both leverage bulk purchases, which is obviously an area where WM will always have an advantage.

Crest has undoubtedly stepped up their own store experience with their Norman and SW OKC stores as examples; their older Moore store, converted from a Homeland, is indicative of this. Aldi's hasn't changed theirs arguably since their inception; unbox it and shelve it has been their modus operandi essentially from day one. Crest is miles beyond that model.

And *you* obviously aren't up on your demographics - do you know where the highest per-capita income demographic in central OK is located? Nope, not Edmond as you incorrectly presume...it's in far SW OKC, in the area served by retail locations like Chatenay Square and populated with homes like Rivendell, Greenbriar, and Lakeridge. What's funny is that this was published in the Oklahoman a couple of years ago, but folks like you just perpetuate the incorrect, almost bigoted notions of what SW OKC is *in your head*. So about those red herrings....

Looks like you're wrong . . . again. And where's the Uptown Grocery in Moore? I know there's one in Edmond.

Edmond
The average household income for 73034 is $108,168.
The per-capita household income for 73034 is $40,129.
13.1% of households make over $200,000 a year.


Chatenay Square (Moore)
The average household income for 73170 is $95,178.
The per-capita household income for 73170 is $34,692.
6.6% of households make over $200,000 a year.

(https://www.incomebyzipcode.com/oklahoma/73170)https://www.incomebyzipcode.com/oklahoma/73034 (https://www.incomebyzipcode.com/oklahoma/73170)
https://www.incomebyzipcode.com/oklahoma/73170

I have to be honest, I don't get the hubbub over Kroger. I've only been in a couple of them, I guess, but they just seem like regular grocery stores to me.

... Crest actively keeps their stores neat and clean, reserves restocking to late hours....

Have to argue this point - the Edmond Crest was absolutely horrible about restocking during daytime hours (honestly, I haven't seen a grocery store that does restocking only at night for many many years, though) - on pretty much every Friday that we went, literally every 3rd or 4th aisle had huge pallet jacks and people restocking, made it a nightmare with the crowds that are omnipresent, sooooooooooo glad we don't have to go there anymore. Uptown is our store of choice (even though we live in Venice), and when Winco opens on 39th, we'll be there in a heartbeat.

...and when Winco opens on 39th, we'll be there in a heartbeat.

If your reason for avoiding Crest is restocking during daytime hours and crowds.... You're not going to enjoy Winco.

If your reason for avoiding Crest is restocking during daytime hours and crowds.... You're not going to enjoy Winco.

Actually, we moved far away from the Edmond Crest, so that's the main reason, and then we went to the one closest to us at 23rd/Meridian Crest *once* and probably won't ever darken its doorstep again, that was just horrible. From what I've seen, Winco has wider aisles and I don't think they have as many (or any) bumpouts as Crest does in the aisles, which complicates the restocking issue, so Winco may be workable. At least it'll be closer than Uptown, and less expensive, and have a wider selection of normal, day-to-day stuff (we'll probably end up going to Uptown every couple of months for some of their specialty stuff, not sure how Winco's meat/seafood counter, deli, and bakery will stack up to Uptown's).

If your reason for avoiding Crest is restocking during daytime hours and crowds.... You're not going to enjoy Winco.

I've never seen anyone restocking anything at a Kroger. This is one of the hallmarks of a middle-market store.

I have to be honest, I don't get the hubbub over Kroger. I've only been in a couple of them, I guess, but they just seem like regular grocery stores to me.

The one I used to frequent in Conway AR was like a slightly larger version of the 18th and Classen Homeland, so I'm as baffled as you are.

not sure how Winco's meat/seafood counter, deli, and bakery will stack up to Uptown's).

Seafood counters not bad. Meat (butcher) counter doesn't exist. I really like Winco's bulk section just for the variety of bulk items they carry.

The one I used to frequent in Conway AR was like a slightly larger version of the 18th and Classen Homeland, so I'm as baffled as you are.

If we had Krogers here people probably would have the same opinion of them as the stores we have. It's easy to glamorize something you don't have. Not condemning anyone for the behavior. I'm as guilty of doing it as anyone else is..... Ask me about Central Texas style BBQ sometime and I'll tell you stories about angels dancing around my head while eating it.

Seafood counters not bad. Meat (butcher) counter doesn't exist. I really like Winco's bulk section just for the variety of bulk items they carry.

Thx, good to know, not what I wanted to hear, but at least I know. So the butchers/fishmongers I know of close (relatively speaking) to us are Rhett's on Britton/May, Kamp's on Western/Wilshire-ish, and Gulfport Seafood on May/Wilshire. Are there any that are actually close to 36th/May?

Thx, good to know, not what I wanted to hear, but at least I know. So the butchers/fishmongers I know of close (relatively speaking) to us are Rhett's on Britton/May, Kamp's on Western/Wilshire-ish, and Gulfport Seafood on May/Wilshire. Are there any that are actually close to 36th/May?

Only if there is a carniceria in the area.... I know a lot of people are intimidated by the Latino markets but places like Morelo's and the other Mercados have some pretty nice meat counters.

Looks like you're wrong . . . again. And where's the Uptown Grocery in Moore? I know there's one in Edmond.

Edmond
The average household income for 73034 is $108,168.
The per-capita household income for 73034 is $40,129.
13.1% of households make over $200,000 a year.


Chatenay Square (Moore)
The average household income for 73170 is $95,178.
The per-capita household income for 73170 is $34,692.
6.6% of households make over $200,000 a year.

(https://www.incomebyzipcode.com/oklahoma/73170)https://www.incomebyzipcode.com/oklahoma/73034 (https://www.incomebyzipcode.com/oklahoma/73170)
https://www.incomebyzipcode.com/oklahoma/73170

And you, again, fail by cherry picking ONE zip code in the SW OKC area. This was not some arbitrary information I made up, this was a published, verified story in the business section of the Oklahoman that was specifically written in part to dispel the crap people like you try to petpetuate that SW OKC is a bunch of inbred trailer park hicks. I 100% stand behind the previous story/post. I condemn your hatred for SW OKC on its face.

Meanwhile, back to the thread.

And you, again, fail by cherry picking ONE zip code in the SW OKC area. This was not some arbitrary information I made up, this was a published, verified story in the business section of the Oklahoman that was specifically written in part to dispel the crap people like you try to petpetuate that SW OKC is a bunch of inbred trailer park hicks. I 100% stand behind the previous story/post. I condemn your hatred for SW OKC on its face.

Meanwhile, back to the thread.

I picked the zip code of the "elite" shopping center you referenced. Have you not learned anything about the news media in the last 12 months? I will trust the census bureau over the words of some hack journalist working for the DOK.

Also when did Moore become part of SW OKC? It's South OKC, no? So strange that such a huge expert about OKC wouldn't know that. And finally, if Moore is as rich as you claim, why doesn't it have a Whole Foods or an Uptown Grocery?

And you, again, fail by cherry picking ONE zip code in the SW OKC area. This was not some arbitrary information I made up, this was a published, verified story in the business section of the Oklahoman that was specifically written in part to dispel the crap people like you try to petpetuate that SW OKC is a bunch of inbred trailer park hicks. I 100% stand behind the previous story/post. I condemn your hatred for SW OKC on its face.

Meanwhile, back to the thread.

I also remember reading that article a couple years ago. South Metro had the highest per capita income.

A I condemn your hatred for SW OKC on its face.

Meanwhile, back to the thread.

My response was very similar to yours when I read the same messages. Alot of people are clueless to the amount of wealth in SW OKC. Wealth isn't determined by having a whole foods a mile away.

My response was very similar to yours when I read the same messages. Alot of people are clueless to the amount of wealth in SW OKC. Wealth isn't determined by having a whole foods a mile away.

To some, it is. Thankfully most aren't quite as shallow.

And I thought that CNN had the market cornered on Fake News. Wow!

http://www.pbodom.com/images/PDFs/commercialprops/Palagio_NormanTranscriptArticle.pdf

Honestly discount vs tru mid-tier doesn't really matter to me. What matters to me is if the place is clean, if you can get in and out quickly, and if they have what I need. No grocery store in central OKC currently meets all of that criteria. The 18th and Classen Homeland fails all three. Crests (both the newer and older formats), Uptown Grocery, or the remodeled Homelands all do meet this criteria. Reasor's in Tulsa does as well and it would be a huge, huge deal if they were to ever expand into OKC.

I am really hoping that SQ 792 helps fix the grocery market here. It may take several years to do it but it should help grocery stores here be a little more profitable which hopefully translates into nicer stores with more locations (especially central OKC which is a grocery store desert..still).

Honestly discount vs tru mid-tier doesn't really matter to me. What matters to me is if the place is clean, if you can get in and out quickly, and if they have what I need. No grocery store in central OKC currently meets all of that criteria. The 18th and Classen Homeland fails all three. Crests (both the newer and older formats), Uptown Grocery, or the remodeled Homelands all do meet this criteria. Reasor's in Tulsa does as well and it would be a huge, huge deal if they were to ever expand into OKC.

I am really hoping that SQ 792 helps fix the grocery market here. It may take several years to do it but it should help grocery stores here be a little more profitable which hopefully translates into nicer stores with more locations (especially central OKC which is a grocery store desert..still).

it is really surprising that none of the grocers have pulled the trigger for a quasi-downtown location. i think an urban target would absolutely crush it in Midtown.

Kroger coming to OKC – with a twist (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=768-Kroger-coming-to-OKC-%96-with-a-twist)

Kroger, second in size only to Walmart among grocers in the United States, will soon be entering the Oklahoma City market.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/kroger122121aa.jpg


Kroger Fulfillment Network, a subsidiary of the grocery company, has submitted plans for a 49,000 square foot warehouse buildout on I-35 just south of Britton Road.

The facility will stock around 10,000 items and serve as a transfer point for online orders that originate at the company's mega-hub in Dallas, one of 20 huge and highly automated warehouses being constructed throughout the country.

Several sources told OKCTalk that Kroger had been scouting the market for traditional store locations before the national COVID-19 pandemic. Now, it appears they will come to Central Oklahoma as a delivery-only service.

Two years ago, Kroger announced ambitious plans to focus on an e-commerce delivery model thereby reaching markets where there are no physical Kroger grocery stores. They have already opened in Florida where they had previously lacked any retail presence and will be taking the same approach in the Northeast.

Kroger seems to be planning the same tactic in the OKC area. Typically, such a 'spoke' facility will serve deliveries in a radius of 90 miles and create 150 jobs.

Unlike stores that use third-party gig-economy drivers, deliveries will be made by Kroger refrigerated delivery vans that offer elevated service by employees that will be able to manage order changes and answer questions.

Orders can be placed on the Kroger website or through their smartphone app. Through various forms of automation similar to Amazon facilities, the total cost is positioned to compete with in-store purchases.

The main Dallas facility is nearing completion and then the local delivery network will be established. Kroger could start delivering orders in the area by the end of 2022.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/kroger122121ba.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/kroger5a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/kroger4a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/kroger1a.jpg

this is fantastic news ..

I hinted at this in the thread about a West Edmond grocery store.

Between Kroger and Amazon, I believe most city MSA's will soon have very competitive grocery delivery models that will fill many existing holes and start changing the way people shop for groceries. This would mean fresh food would be available almost anywhere; food deserts, downtown and to the elderly and others who can't easily go get their own items.

Kroger is making an Amazon-like investment in infrastructure and will be using their own employees who will work with customers upon delivery to fix orders and answer questions.

The service has already taken off in Florida where like Oklahoma, Kroger has no retail stores.

The key is doing all this for reasonable fees (hence, the heavy automation) and by employees trained and enabled to satisfy any issues.

This is really wonderful. We shopped at Kroger growing up in the Dallas area. Those stores are very clean and tidy and no doubt that is a sign of good clean groceries coming out of a distribution center. Kroger is a nice upscale grocer and while I wish we were getting a brick and mortar store here. And though I won't personally use it, this delivery service should be pretty good for those in the market of grocery deliveries.

Not really thrilled this will be a delivery only service. Hopefully at some point they reconsider that and place a few brick and mortar stores.

Growing in Western Oklahoma I remember every Thanksgiving going to visit Grandparents in Hutchison KS and we would stop by Dillions and get a sack of their all purpose flour. It was seasoned and made the best fried chicken!

Not really thrilled this will be a delivery only service. Hopefully at some point they reconsider that and place a few brick and mortar stores.

Yeah, we just can't do delivery of produce and meat - we cook a lot and have to look at the ingredients in person, I don't want some random person deciding what to give us (we've seen the employees doing online shopping for customers pick stuff out and just nope). Also, we usually have some specific items that can't really be substituted for every few weeks, don't want to deal with that either. And finally, sometimes we see things that go well together and can make a meal out of, which wouldn't happen if we just ordered online. We don't have kids, and are picky/specific shoppers, so we're probably not the target demographic for them.