Might take some time to fill the building but I am glad they are proceeding through it. OKC needs developments like this. I wish the condos in AA that were scrapped would have happened.

Any possible word on a commercial tenant? This seems perfect for a locally owned bodega or butcher shop.

Units at the Civic are still for sale several years after completion at less than half the price per SF.

This project will have better views but is otherwise pretty comparable.

Seems normal to me. The Argyle recently built in Hollywood is 20 or so story ultra luxury apartment with units starting minimum 4k a month. They informed me my unit will be one of several that no one has lived in yet as they will also be providing free butler service until the building is 90% leased as an incentive. This building has been open for a year now.

Someone has to take the leap in OKC. Are you sure these units are comparable the Civic Condos? They look nicer in the renderings though I haven't looked at the Civic Condos.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dthousingcomps021919.jpg

We don’t know the price for the Bower yet? Aren’t those almost finished?

What about 6100 Grand?

We don’t know the price for the Bower yet? Aren’t those almost finished?

What about 6100 Grand?

That list above is only for the downtown area.

Bower pricing hasn't been released.

Cirrus looks to be dead as well. Looks like charging $800,000+ for a condo is tricky.

Cirrus looks to be dead as well. Looks like charging $800,000+ for a condo is tricky.

But work is set to start on the townhomes (http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=44639) just to the west on NW 8th.

Will be interesting to see how they are priced and I understand they did a bunch of value engineering to keep costs down.

It's confirmed Cirrus is dead or just suspected due to no on site movement?

It's confirmed Cirrus is dead or just suspected due to no on site movement?

As far as I know, they have not been able to do any/much presale.

These condo projects usually can only be financed if you have a good chunk of presales.

From their FB page:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/leftframe030119.jpg

The listings they put up today dropped to $518 and $523 a sq. foot. Practically a fire sale from the $550-plus initially. :)

I personally think they are dreaming still but we'll see. Maybe they will sell a few for corporate housing.

Where are they listed?

Here is one of the listings...

https://www.trulia.com/p/ok/oklahoma-city/631-w-california-ave-210-oklahoma-city-ok-73102--2360756688

WOW - that price point is insane! Regardless of how nice they are inside, I have a feeling these will be a tough sell. $700-800K goes a LONG way even in Mesta or HH these days.

I agree these seem really expensive and I have no idea if they will sell.

But I do think the comparison with Mesta Park or Heritage Hills is a bit misplaced. It's a totally different buyer. A lot of people, myself included if I'm being honest, look at our personal places of residence in the vein of "How much space can I get for my money?" That's why suburbs have been popular. More square footage for the dollar.

But, I do think there is an emerging crowd that does not put a premium on that. Let's say $700-800K gets you 3000 SF in Heritage Hills or Mesta Park. You still have to furnish that space, you have to deal with old systems, with landscaping and yard mowing, with high utility costs, with an ongoing stream of repairs common with old houses.

Now, let's say you're a young professional (or maybe an NBA player?) with that same $700K-800K budget. You live differently. You don't have kids, maybe you don't want them, you're not interested in several bedrooms that you have to furnish and you're never going to use. You don't want to spend Saturdays and Sundays fixing things.

I'm not saying there are 100,000 of those people in OKC, however I think there are certainly more than six of them.

^I think you make great points and I agree with the basic theory. The one thing that appears a little off is this project in excess of $500 a foot and others that I think also fit the bill that you describe are at $350-$425 a foot. Maybe the finishes distinguish it, but that’s at least a question to ask.

Official MLS # are two at ~$551/ft, $523, and one at $518. HOA monthly dues not assigned yet but I would assume they are easily north of $850/month. Says they include insurance and maintenance.

I agree these seem really expensive and I have no idea if they will sell.

But I do think the comparison with Mesta Park or Heritage Hills is a bit misplaced. It's a totally different buyer. A lot of people, myself included if I'm being honest, look at our personal places of residence in the vein of "How much space can I get for my money?" That's why suburbs have been popular. More square footage for the dollar.

But, I do think there is an emerging crowd that does not put a premium on that. Let's say $700-800K gets you 3000 SF in Heritage Hills or Mesta Park. You still have to furnish that space, you have to deal with old systems, with landscaping and yard mowing, with high utility costs, with an ongoing stream of repairs common with old houses.

Now, let's say you're a young professional (or maybe an NBA player?) with that same $700K-800K budget. You live differently. You don't have kids, maybe you don't want them, you're not interested in several bedrooms that you have to furnish and you're never going to use. You don't want to spend Saturdays and Sundays fixing things.

I'm not saying there are 100,000 of those people in OKC, however I think there are certainly more than six of them.

I'm well aware of the differences between downtown living and Mesta/HH. As a former downtown resident who just bought in Gatewood, I'd say I'm extremely aware of what might drive someone to buy in either place. I guess instead of comparing the price point to Mesta/HH, I should have compared to other for-sale properties in downtown, and in general. That's really what I was getting at. $500/sqft is completely uncharted territory in OKC as far as I know.

They have a full floor option now listed for $1.55 Mill. 2975 feet. Over $520 a foot. 4 beds, 4 baths! :)

Haven't seen any work the last few weeks. Still moving forward?

Haven't seen any work the last few weeks. Still moving forward?

Was by there yesterday and they were working away.

Was by there yesterday and they were working away.

Weird. Must have been changing crews or waiting on material

Pete, seems this project has stalled. No movement in a couple of months. Any update?

I know they have been moving very slow; took this just a couple of hours ago:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/leftframe112119a.jpg

Ya, I drive by almost daily. Haven't seen any progress on it. Granted, I don't count how many windows they have up, but it seems they haven't made progress since about Aug/Sept.

I've never understood how they hoped to sell the units are the prices they are asking.

If financing hasn't dried up, maybe they stopped until they sold one so they could to a custom build out on it? That is my thought process.

There doesn't seem to be much progress:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/leftframe011220a.jpg

None for awhile now... Walked by it at lunch yesterday and there wasn't a single worker there.

No work since late August/early September.

Take it for what it's worth, but what I heard is that they are waiting for buyers to come in, put some money down, so they can finish them off individually rather than moving forward to complete them all at once.

All 5 are still active on the MLS and range from $518-$553/ft.

None for awhile now... Walked by it at lunch yesterday and there wasn't a single worker there.

I think they hired the people who worked on I-35.

Take it for what it's worth, but what I heard is that they are waiting for buyers to come in, put some money down, so they can finish them off individually rather than moving forward to complete them all at once.

All 5 are still active on the MLS and range from $518-$553/ft.

That makes some sense. I figured they would at least have it enclosed so that can build out the unit when it sells.

I got to wondering if this was an elaborate joke. If they were literally going to be Left [as a] Frame forever.

15782

The $300K in TIF money is being rescinded by the city, so I take that as a further sign of this project not going forward any time soon.

Let's give money to a developer to build homes in which the vast majority of people cannot afford. Seemed smart.

Lmao. Well, at least it doesn't look like a total eyesore in its current state or anything.

Lmao. Well, at least it doesn't look like a total eyesore in its current state or anything.

It really gives the city a mad Max vibe.

It really shows how far OKC has to go when it can’t support little projects like this that are a dime a dozen in other ‘real’ boom towns. No demand for office space leaving huge vacancies. Can’t even get a downtown grocer or CVS. Completely dead CBD after 6 I observed when I was in town for the last month. Not even a residential mid rise in the works. The city has come a long way but damn.

It really shows how far OKC has to go when it can’t support little projects like this that are a dime a dozen in other ‘real’ boom towns. No demand for office space leaving huge vacancies. Can’t even get a downtown grocer or CVS. Completely dead CBD after 6 I observed when I was in town for the last month. Not even a residential mid rise in the works. The city has come a long way but damn.

There have been hundreds of projects like this in OKC over the last decade or so.

This project was asking for far more per square foot than anyone else is charging.

Agree, PP. I do not think people who live in OKC can see the level of absolute incompetence on the part of developers and leaders both political and business. They seem to never be capable of developing a strategic plan that will catapult OKC to greater heights. When you live other places and compare it’s staggering the difference.

Agree, PP. I do not think people who live in OKC can see the level of absolute incompetence on the part of developers and leaders both political and business. They seem to never be capable of developing a strategic plan that will catapult OKC to greater heights. When you live other places and compare it staggering the difference.

You have to compare OKC to peer cities, not DC or L.A.

As for incompetent developers, these are people investing heavily in the community and sometimes projects just don't work out. For everyone that doesn't, there are scores that do.

Its current state of concrete gives me Stage Center vibes.

I think this project's skeleton rising up like this is a microcosm for OKC's downtown residential situation. Condos for rich people that don't want to live downtown anyways. You know who does want to live downtown? Young professionals that have 80K in student loan debt.

I'm sure the developers got involved with the best possible intentions but then construction costs were likely higher than anticipated and therefore they had to ask way-over-the-market prices to make the numbers work.

Hopefully, someone will take it over and finish it out.

There have been hundreds of projects like this in OKC over the last decade or so.

This project was asking for far more per square foot than anyone else is charging.
Where? The renderings of this building showed a smaller but upper end building. Luxury. Where have those been built?

Where? The renderings of this building showed a smaller but upper end building. Luxury. Where have those been built?

Dozens in SoSA alone.

Luxury units under construction now at Villa Teresa and The Hill.

Brownstones in Deep Deuce.

Dwellings at SoSA.

Many, many more.

Agree, PP. I do not think people who live in OKC can see the level of absolute incompetence on the part of developers and leaders both political and business. They seem to never be capable of developing a strategic plan that will catapult OKC to greater heights. When you live other places and compare it’s staggering the difference.



this is such a terrible take it would be funny if it wasn't so sad

In my 5 short years of real estate I have come to a pretty generic conclusion that Oklahoma City is more of a "build it, and they will come" type of setup. It is not an Austin, or other high end condo markets, where they can pre-sell hundreds of condos no sweat. We like to be able to see it and touch it here, and not just throw money at fancy pictures hoping that's what comes out on the other end. Part of the reason why the Elliot went away for now.

LFL I think just way underestimated construction costs and we're waiting for buyers to come and help them finish it out. Terrific idea and design, just a few years too soon IMO.

this is such a terrible take it would be funny if it wasn't so sad
Certainly not funny but I would categorize the number of sustained economic misfires over decades as sad. OKC has a history of broken promises, failed projects, substandard development etc. it’s really not debatable.

Certainly not funny but I would categorize the number of sustained economic misfires over decades as sad. OKC has a history of broken promises, failed projects, substandard development etc. it’s really not debatable.

OMG, so does every other major city. There are so many project's I've read about in Denver that have never happened and this is one of those "boom" towns. I've also seen projects that have been built, here in Denver, that were amazingly shoddy work. "Luxury" condo's were built with such cheap plumbing behind the walls that they were breaking the first winter. I saw the same thing by the dozen when I lived in Dallas.

The main difference is a much more variable economy and an abundance of private capital funds, venture capital and angel capital in those larger cities that isn't really available in OKC.

Dozens in SoSA alone.

Luxury units under construction now at Villa Teresa and The Hill.

Brownstones in Deep Deuce.

Dwellings at SoSA.

Many, many more.Those really aren’t anything exceptional except for the cool homes in Sosa. But those aren’t like the building proposed here. These small little luxury buildings are really something that adds cool elements to a city. Then we have cool developments like the Townhomes on grand which are a league of their own and just can’t seem to get off the ground. That’s all I’m saying.

PS, Sosa is a cool district but it is really sporadic in terms of development. It will take decades to fill at least if the current rate doesn’t increase faster in regards to new developments.

Those really aren’t anything exceptional except for the cool homes in Sosa. But those aren’t like the building proposed here. These small little luxury buildings are really something that adds cool elements to a city. Then we have cool developments like the Townhomes on grand which are a league of their own and just can’t seem to get off the ground. That’s all I’m saying.

PS, Sosa is a cool district but it is really sporadic in terms of development. It will take decades to fill at least if the current rate doesn’t increase faster in regards to new developments.

6100 Grand is priced extremely high as well. Just because a couple of developers don't budget properly is not in any way an indictment on everything else going on in OKC.

The fact they are even trying is a very good sign IMO.

There are tons of examples of positives -- no need to focus on the tiny percent that don't work out for various reasons.

You have to compare OKC to peer cities, not DC or L.A.


And, even if you do, it's not always as rosy as it seems in those top tier cities. A lot of those new luxury condos in major cities remain unsold. Once they made it harder for foreign plutocrats to launder money through US real estate, the demand for high end luxury condos slowed up a bit.

6100 Grand is priced extremely high as well. Just because a couple of developers don't budget properly is not in any way an indictment on everything else going on in OKC.

The fact they are even trying is a very good sign IMO.

There are tons of examples of positives -- no need to focus on the tiny percent that don't work out for various reasons.
I understand there is a lot of positive things happening around the metro. It’s great but let’s also keep perspective.

OKC still doesn’t have a single lifestyle center and almost every other city that has had its share of projects gone south already has these options.

Tuscana, UNP, Shoppes at Spring Creek, Bricktown Village, Lower Bricktown development, urban renewal, urban renewal v2 we just had in 2010s, and still it seems almost very really nice high end condo project doesn’t happen or gets postponed. Glimcher development in Nichols Hills has been scaled way back.

Of course there are exceptions but that seems to be what it is in OKC whereas in other cities it’d be the rule. This is the important thing to keep in mind, IMO. You can give a million explanations for each project I listed but it always seems like something happens that ruins unique projects in OKC. It’s slowly changing for the better and I recognize that:

I’ve looked at models for this development and 6100 grand and those are truly amazing developments in a league that isn’t offered in OKC right now. I’m saying Oklahomans seem to be cheap.

My comments aren’t intended to be negative but rather stating my observations that the city has a long ways to go even throughout all the progress it’s made.

If Chisholm Creek and Oak are built as proposed and all the current proposed projects in the pipeline really come through then it should catapult the city into a new league. If Stitt makes good on his promise of OK being a top ten state which would require a massive investment in state infrastructure it will also help a ton. Things look good ahead. That’s for sure.

^

OKC "has a long way to go" because one, small ill-conceived condo project stalled?

You are really reaching.

^^^^ that is not my point. I don’t know how else to phrase it.

The growth in OKC over the last 25 years is nothing short of astounding. OKC really was an undesirable city in the mid-1990s. Growing up in Tulsa, we saw it as far inferior... and it was in many ways. I used to joke that OKC's logo should just be a strip mall. Now, it has a good restaurant and bar scene, a freakin' NBA team, downtown amenities (library, ball park, canal, arena, two parks) and improved walkability and urbanism in the core. Midtown was just coming up when I moved there a decade ago and it's growth has been pretty impressive. I have brought people up from DFW numerous times who are just blown away by OKC's districts and offerings. Part of this is probably low expectations. And, of course, OKC has shortcomings in a lot of areas and a long way to go to be a great city, but it's in a totally different tier than it was previously. I say all this as someone who posts a lot of critiques and still think OKC allows a select few to make bad decisions for everyone else. These posts highlighting OKC's failures in such a dramatic way read as ahistorical and seem to be more personal. It's fine if you've had frustrating experiences with OKC, but people are going to push back on these broad/vague negative narratives.

There are only so many people in OKC who 1) want to live downtown, and 2) can afford a $500K+ condo/townhouse. Virtually all of the for-sale housing available downtown right now is in that price range.

I get that the price of land downtown is high, and so new construction will be high. But I think developers should make an effort to redevelop downtown-adjacent neighborhoods (like west of Classen between Linwood and Main) where land can probably be had for far more affordable prices. If they'd target the $250K price range, they could get a lot more buyers. We need a larger number of people living near downtown to support things like a grocery store, and other day-to-day shopping. Those kinds of normal everyday services would then establish themselves and would make downtown a more convenient place to live.