What would you say is the next neighborhood to experience really good housing price appreciation like the Paseo District? As I've said before, I'm interested in getting into real estate investing and would like to invest in these neighborhoods.

I'm no expert, but IMO, while there are affluent folks who own property in the Paseo district, it is hardly what I would call an affluent neighborhood, and has a long way to go before it would ever be considered as such. It was a high crime area in the not too distant past and there are still some pretty rough streets in and around the area. But, as far as investing in properties, I imagine now is as good a time as any before it does take off.

There are some million dollar homes in Paseo. But many are also over 200,000. Affluent may have been a bad phrase

The Paseo is still "up and coming" though its closer to gentrified today than it was a few years ago. The "rough" streets are becoming fewer and fewer.

What about the Plaza area closer to Classen or south of 16th St? Its a great area but seems to still be kind of marginal the closer you get to Classen or 10th. As popular as the Plaza is I think its just a matter of time before the entire area becomes gentrified.

I think Capitol Hill has a lot of potential, but that's potentially a 15-20 year play.

Invest how? Flip, rent, owner occupied?

Probably mostly rentals but flipping as well

There are some million dollar homes in Paseo. But many are also over 200,000. Affluent may have been a bad phrase

That would be more the exception than the rule as there are many more valued well below $150,000.

Two years ago I bought a house in Central NW Highlands (36th and Francis) for $75,000. Put about $24K in it, but got back around $19K from rent. Sold in in June for $118,999. After some concessions and such I got around $110,000. Not a bad turnaround.

The margins in flips are really low in OKC so unless you get it at auction or know someone in the know where you can get a property before it hits the market, I would suggest the "renovate and rent" strategy.

Worthy Cook, we need to talk!!! You are right on the profit margin!!!

I am currently flipping a house near NW 63rd and Meridian. I bought it for $85K, I will have about $22K in it, and will sell for around $131K. After the realtor beating I will take at 5%, I will net around $17K. This is the best margin flip I will have had in a while. I got lucky and found it word of mouth, bought directly from the seller. The thing that is going to kill me on this is mine will be totally remodeled, while most in this area sell with minimal updates, lowering the $ sq/ft comps, plus there was someone else looking at it, so I raised my offer some.... probably too much.

To answer the question asked, I really don't know. I have seen a huge spike in the asking price of 2BD 1BA, around 800-1,000 sq ft houses, what I would call a starter home. In fact, as soon as I am done with the above house, I am going to look for one of these 2BD 1BA houses to rent for a while, because they seem to be renting well, just have to screen hard, and hope I get a good renter.

Rent houses will, by far, be my main objective. What I'd really like to do is go on to be a developer and repurpose older buildings into apartments but that's a ways down the road. Why are profit margins for flips so low in OKC?

I had a great experience buying in Classen Ten Penn and selling 2 years later. I'm happy to share more info if you want to message me privately.

Yeah, I would think CTP would be a good investment area if you can find something in there that's reasonable. I know there is a lot of movement around the Linwood Blvd area and I could see that becoming the next Plaza. But it would have to be a long term hold, I would guess five years. There is also a lot of activity in the Military Park neighborhood, but it's pretty hit and miss.

Rent houses will, by far, be my main objective. What I'd really like to do is go on to be a developer and repurpose older buildings into apartments but that's a ways down the road. Why are profit margins for flips so low in OKC?

Because the sf of what is considered "a premium" is low in OKC. $150/sf is on the high end for most of the metro area.

If a flip-home sells pre-reno for $60/sf in OKC, in a better market it might bring $75-$85/sf. That home sold post-reno might bring $90/sf-$100/sf here and sell for $150/sf in a better market.

People will pay a premium for a move-in ready house. But when $140/sf is considered a premium for most of the market.

When you have such a low ceiling, it means that certain basic costs cover a larger percentage of the potential profit. 100 square feet of tile is not likely going to cost more in Denver than it does in OKC. But if you buy for $60/sf and sell for $90/sf vs. buy for $80/sf and sell for $120/sf even though you increased value by 50% in both, the raw cost of your materials was not 30% higher in the better market.

OKC is still a long play city. Renovate and Rent is a far better strategy in OKC right now because the opportunity for appreciation is high. You don't even have to hold on to something for 5+ years, but trying to turn something around in under 12 months is not a great idea in this market, especially in the core, where appreciation still has a solid trajectory forward.

The big problem there is obviously cash getting tied up, but because buy and hold is how the big money plays in this market, it forces the hand of the individual investor as well.

The 2 bed 1 baths are my best money makers. I highly suggest the Grady Musgrave area just north of 63rd and May. Area is full of 2/1 and are all usually in the low $100Ks. I bought all of mine for $100, $100, and$108/ft. Many are selling now in the $110's which makes me pretty happy. Most houses usually need some kind of refreshing, but none are total disasters. All three of my rentals in there get >$1,000/month. The reason is that there are very little apartment competition and you are still very close to plenty of desirable locations. Should keep you eye out in there for some.

The 2 bed 1 baths are my best money makers. I highly suggest the Grady Musgrave area just north of 63rd and May. Area is full of 2/1 and are all usually in the low $100Ks. I bought all of mine for $100, $100, and$108/ft. Many are selling now in the $110's which makes me pretty happy. Most houses usually need some kind of refreshing, but none are total disasters. All three of my rentals in there get >$1,000/month. The reason is that there are very little apartment competition and you are still very close to plenty of desirable locations. Should keep you eye out in there for some.

Yes, that is one of my target areas I always look at. I have always been outbid though....

The 2 bed 1 baths are my best money makers. I highly suggest the Grady Musgrave area just north of 63rd and May. Area is full of 2/1 and are all usually in the low $100Ks. I bought all of mine for $100, $100, and$108/ft. Many are selling now in the $110's which makes me pretty happy. Most houses usually need some kind of refreshing, but none are total disasters. All three of my rentals in there get >$1,000/month. The reason is that there are very little apartment competition and you are still very close to plenty of desirable locations. Should keep you eye out in there for some.

Before I just purchased my house in Edmond, I rented two houses in The Village. I know that's not this EXACT same area but very similar/close. First house I paid $950 a month and the second I paid $800. Both houses had been LOOOONG owned by the owners and therefore long paid off. They EASILY could have pulled in closer to $1200 for either house. And I would have paid $1200 for either house.

But anyway, my point is, having just been on the renter side of things, renting a home with a friend or significant other and having no kids, the 63/May area and The Village is absolutely awesome. Smack in the middle of the city. Eaay access to highways. Restaurants and grocery and activities all around. As someone who did rent in these areas, it's the best place in the metro to rent, sans renting for good public schools. Here in the next 5 years to 10 I will absolutely start looking into buying a house in these areas and pull the long con of renting/renovation. Obviously it can be hard to get good renters, but I lived in both of my houses for 2 years, and while that isn't a long time, I did no damage to either house, got 100% deposits back, and my second landlord even helped me find a lender for the house I've just bought. There are good renters out there, I promise! My second landlord did a credit check, and wouldn't allow anyone below a 640 credit score to rent from him. Which I thought was a pretty good idea.

The 2 bed 1 baths are my best money makers. I highly suggest the Grady Musgrave area just north of 63rd and May. Area is full of 2/1 and are all usually in the low $100Ks. I bought all of mine for $100, $100, and$108/ft. Many are selling now in the $110's which makes me pretty happy. Most houses usually need some kind of refreshing, but none are total disasters. All three of my rentals in there get >$1,000/month. The reason is that there are very little apartment competition and you are still very close to plenty of desirable locations. Should keep you eye out in there for some.

That's where I bought my first house, back in 1996. 3100 block of NW 68th. At the time, it was transitioning from original owners who had built the homes in the '50s (who were either dying or relocating to elder care facilities), to people like me who were starting out. The nine years I lived there it was a great blend of young and old who shared experiences and helped each other out. I'll always have good memories from that time.

It didn't seem like there were a ton of renters there when I owned the house, but I could be mistaken. Worthy Cook, would you say it's a majority of renters now, or just an increase? I have noticed there are tons more cars parked on the street than there used to be.

Just from looking at properties owners when I did a mailout there not too long ago, I would put it around 30-40% of the homes were owned by some kind of entity that had "LLC or Property" included in the owners name.

But unlike a lot of areas with a lot of rentals, the higher price of rent in the area keeps the quality of renters up, resulting in properties being taken care and therefore values, at minimum, staying put or slightly increasing year to year.

As for cars in the streets, plenty of houses have converted the one car garages to livable space. So that's my only guess why there could be an uptick to go with more rentals.

^^^^^

Gotcha, thanks! Glad to hear the renters are higher quality, too. It's funny, isn't it, how these homes were family + multiple children homes back when they were built, when people lived comfortably within 1500-1600 square feet of space. Then, in my era, they were considered "starter homes" for young couples who didn't have children. Now, I guess people are seeking even larger homes to start out in (to purchase), which is probably why you're seeing more renters.

^^^^^

Gotcha, thanks! Glad to hear the renters are higher quality, too. It's funny, isn't it, how these homes were family + multiple children homes back when they were built, when people lived comfortably within 1500-1600 square feet of space. Then, in my era, they were considered "starter homes" for young couples who didn't have children. Now, I guess people are seeking even larger homes to start out in (to purchase), which is probably why you're seeing more renters.

This is why I also think another correction in the market is coming... people are getting approved for more than they can afford... (unless you want to eat the cocking out of the windows). I don't think it will be near as bad as the last correction in 08, but it is coming!!!

What does everyone think of the square mile directly west of the Plaza district? The neighborhoods between Penn and May and 23rd and 10th?
I currently live in the area (Youngs-Englewood) and constantly see houses being re-done and a few being torn down and rebuilt while walking my dog.
Granted, I am biased because I live there and want to see more of this, but it does seem to be a trend.
I paid $88/ft for my place and paid more than double what the previous owner bought it for in 2001 (though I believe it was purchased as and converted from a duplex as 2 bed, 2 bath houses in the area are fairly rare), I feel like I stand to make a decent profit off of it in 5-7 years but could be mistaken.
Be interested to see what some of you who buy/rent professionally think of the area.

It's def an up and coming area, but problem is progress has been really slow. The Plaza is really active, as well as as Linwood and even Crestwood. I think where you live it is starting ramp up, because both sides are closing in. As long as it's kept in good shape I see not problem with the value continuing to rise. Only thing is in that area people have had rentals there for a long time and probably have no desire to update the property. So you will see a few nice houses followed by one that looks like it's about to fall over. It will take some time, but they will be eventually bought out or pressured to make their property look good.

That being said, not all but a few properties I have shown buyers in that area that we're marketed as "flips", we're just a sham. A true flip is obviously doing cosmetic, but also fixing problems such as foundation issues, plumbing, electrical, ect. Too many flippers, not just there, are doing all the easy cosmetic stuff and expecting to get top dollar. That all comes crashing down when they get hammered during inspections.

How do you feel about Classen North Highland Parked? It's still in its early stages of growth but i't smack in between Downtown, the Capitol and OUHSC. Several new homes have been built and many are being rennovated right now; and the Walcourt is about to be rehabbed. Seems like it could be a good place to build/buy.

What does everyone think of the square mile directly west of the Plaza district? The neighborhoods between Penn and May and 23rd and 10th?
I currently live in the area (Youngs-Englewood) and constantly see houses being re-done and a few being torn down and rebuilt while walking my dog.
Granted, I am biased because I live there and want to see more of this, but it does seem to be a trend.
I paid $88/ft for my place and paid more than double what the previous owner bought it for in 2001 (though I believe it was purchased as and converted from a duplex as 2 bed, 2 bath houses in the area are fairly rare), I feel like I stand to make a decent profit off of it in 5-7 years but could be mistaken.
Be interested to see what some of you who buy/rent professionally think of the area.

The problem with Young's Englewood is the school, gangs and the bedbugs. If you want a chance to make money then work on the school and drive out the gangs.

How do you feel about Classen North Highland Parked? It's still in its early stages of growth but i't smack in between Downtown, the Capitol and OUHSC. Several new homes have been built and many are being rennovated right now; and the Walcourt is about to be rehabbed. Seems like it could be a good place to build/buy.

And it goes to Wilson Elementary. It is a great area and the last area that is affordable in the Wilson boundaries.

Yeah, school system's are a good point, I bought my place as a "starter home" so I didn't do much research but should have thought about it for resale value. When I was shopping for house out of that square mile (May-Penn & 10th-23rd) I liked Crestwood the best, but there were hardly any homes for sale and they were a solid $30k more than the other neighborhoods. I didn't realize until much later that Crestwood was in a different elementary school district (Cleveland) instead of Hawthorne where Miller, Youngs, etc go.
Have not noticed any gang issues but I have only been there a year and am several blocks away from the main streets, definitely rather be where I am than where Wheeler Park plans on setting up shop though.
Overall, I am optimistic about the area- sure wish someone would turn the tire shops and other buildings on 12th into another Plaza though... haha

It's def an up and coming area, but problem is progress has been really slow. The Plaza is really active, as well as as Linwood and even Crestwood. I think where you live it is starting ramp up, because both sides are closing in. As long as it's kept in good shape I see not problem with the value continuing to rise. Only thing is in that area people have had rentals there for a long time and probably have no desire to update the property. So you will see a few nice houses followed by one that looks like it's about to fall over. It will take some time, but they will be eventually bought out or pressured to make their property look good.

That being said, not all but a few properties I have shown buyers in that area that we're marketed as "flips", we're just a sham. A true flip is obviously doing cosmetic, but also fixing problems such as foundation issues, plumbing, electrical, ect. Too many flippers, not just there, are doing all the easy cosmetic stuff and expecting to get top dollar. That all comes crashing down when they get hammered during inspections.

Pretty spot on analysis. Also, I would say it is worth having a structural engineer come look at these old 1920's houses before buying anything.
Speaking of houses that look like they are about to fall over...https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4828754,-97.5505396,3a,75y,192.35h,80t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sczkcWVTcn5oJtMR18OjrtQ!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656

And it goes to Wilson Elementary. It is a great area and the last area that is affordable in the Wilson boundaries.

Where might I find a map of school boundaries? I'm looking at the OKC PS website and I can't find anything.

Pretty spot on analysis. Also, I would say it is worth having a structural engineer come look at these old 1920's houses before buying anything.
Speaking of houses that look like they are about to fall over...https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4828754,-97.5505396,3a,75y,192.35h,80t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sczkcWVTcn5oJtMR18OjrtQ!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656

If I'm looking at houses in the core, I generally just assume that about $10,000 needs to be an assumed cost for foundation repair. It's worth looking for a property that is at least serviceable while that money is saved up, and if you find one that has already had work done, that's just a bonus.

Where might I find a map of school boundaries? I'm looking at the OKC PS website and I can't find anything.

They are usually on the particular elementary school websites.

How do you feel about Classen North Highland Parked? It's still in its early stages of growth but i't smack in between Downtown, the Capitol and OUHSC. Several new homes have been built and many are being rennovated right now; and the Walcourt is about to be rehabbed. Seems like it could be a good place to build/buy.

It's already very expensive. The lots that are left are crazy high, and the homes that need to be renovated are almost as bad. We looked there for 2 years. Made one offer but couldn't hit the price point we wanted. It's a fantastic buy if you can find the right deal!

Where might I find a map of school boundaries? I'm looking at the OKC PS website and I can't find anything.

Here you go: https://www.okcps.org/cms/lib/OK01913268/Centricity/Domain/115/Maps/ElemPK4th.pdf

Zoomed in maps can be found by searching here: https://www.okcps.org/Page/303
This is the Wilson boundary: https://www.okcps.org/cms/lib/OK01913268/Centricity/domain/115/maps/Wilson.pdf

Zoomed in maps can be found by searching here: https://www.okcps.org/Page/303
This is the Wilson boundary: https://www.okcps.org/cms/lib/OK01913268/Centricity/domain/115/maps/Wilson.pdf

Thank you!!

What is the realtor/house flipper attitude towards the area surrounding the soon to be developed Wheeler District? Personally, I find it a tad difficult to be optimistic about the success of that development solely because of the surrounding area (and the fact that Wheeler does not plan on being gated). Is the real estate mood bullish on what the Wheeler District will do for the area south of the river? If so, it seems like snapping up some of the $12,000 houses in the immediate area could be a good move.

14083

What is the realtor/house flipper attitude towards the area surrounding the soon to be developed Wheeler District? Personally, I find it a tad difficult to be optimistic about the success of that development solely because of the surrounding area (and the fact that Wheeler does not plan on being gated). Is the real estate mood bullish on what the Wheeler District will do for the area south of the river? If so, it seems like snapping up some of the $12,000 houses in the immediate area could be a good move.

14083

I would say that its going to be a wait and see thing. I hope the vision is realized but I am not holding my breath at the moment. This will be competing against Strawberry Fields and whatever becomes of the Producers Co-op site. However, I will say that those who take a gamble will see the greatest reward if Wheeler is a big success. It would be like investing in the Paseo area or in SoSA 10 years ago.

What is the realtor/house flipper attitude towards the area surrounding the soon to be developed Wheeler District? Personally, I find it a tad difficult to be optimistic about the success of that development solely because of the surrounding area (and the fact that Wheeler does not plan on being gated). Is the real estate mood bullish on what the Wheeler District will do for the area south of the river? If so, it seems like snapping up some of the $12,000 houses in the immediate area could be a good move.

14083

I've looked at some of those, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I think it's gonna be a 20+ year investment. Right now the rental prices in that area are fairly low, but so are the home prices. You could buy a house and sit on it, but you're not gonna make any real money unless and until the Wheeler District is 3/4 complete.

What is the realtor/house flipper attitude towards the area surrounding the soon to be developed Wheeler District? Personally, I find it a tad difficult to be optimistic about the success of that development solely because of the surrounding area (and the fact that Wheeler does not plan on being gated). Is the real estate mood bullish on what the Wheeler District will do for the area south of the river? If so, it seems like snapping up some of the $12,000 houses in the immediate area could be a good move.

14083

I think a lot of people believe in Wheeler, but they just need to see the progress before jumping in. And there's really no rush to get down there. Even after Wheeler has legitimate Urban Development occupied, there will still be plenty of deals to be had.

The better argument for getting into the area now is that Capitol Hill could turn on the jets at some point.

Of course, the problem with the area is the housing stock is just not that great. The land, in the long-run, is what's going to be valuable.

From experience, some personal, a little more professional. A couple of hot areas have been discussed that I agree with - Crestwood & Linwood. I flipped a house in crestwood (2/1/2), paid 42k, put 44k in it, sold for 125k. It's just almost impossible to get in a property in either neighborhood with enough room to justify the time and expenses. For Linwood, anything under 200k is on fire. The one v two bath doesn't have a drastic impact on price. For reference, we are about to listt our house on the market once the kitchen, bath & utility room are finished (don't remodel and live in the property. Miserable) for $169k ($130/sqft) and we paid 125k ($96/Sqft) three years ago. Yes, we put some money in the property, but not much (10ish).

What is the neighborhood name for north of the OU Medical Area and south of NE 23rd, (OMG, you live in the ghetto!!) just kidding...

?

Someone told me recently that area is up to $140 sq/ft. maybe its spillover discount from Mesta Park

Not a lot of great restaurants just yet (I'll give props to Georges Happy Hog-love that place, great prices!)

Edit: lots of great historic houses, just like HH and Mesta before that pesky highway was built.

^

Lincoln Terrace.

What is the neighborhood name for north of the OU Medical Area and south of NE 23rd, (OMG, you live in the ghetto!!) just kidding...

?

Someone told me recently that area is up to $140 sq/ft. maybe its spillover discount from Mesta Park

Not a lot of great restaurants just yet (I'll give props to Georges Happy Hog-love that place, great prices!)

Edit: lots of great historic houses, just like HH and Mesta before that pesky highway was built.

We just bought in Lincoln Terrace 3 months ago. Absolutely in love with it. Super close to everything fun in downtown, midtown, and even the River. Seriously, you can't live within a 10 minute bike ride of downtown, midtown, and uptown unless you buy in Mesta or Heritage, which are outrageously overpriced. Also, the neighborhood is surprisingly walkable and the Capitol Park provides some grass for throwing a frisbee, running the dog, etc. You can still find homes in Lincoln Terrace for closer to $100 or $110, but you have to be patient or lucky. Best kept secret in OKC is in Lincoln Terrace: George's Happy Hog BBQ!!

Also, with The Walcourt getting a second life I think you're going to see even more investment start to flow over i-235 towards Lincoln. Buy now while it's at $120-140 before you start to see Mesta Prices!

Late to this chat. I'm in a little bit out of the loop but Classen TenPenn and south of that would be on my radar because of all the development happening in downtown west. I think Wheeler area is real long play but huge upside possiblities. I also think Lincoln Terrace and the area around OU Med are looking better all the time.

There seems to be a ton of opportunity all around OKC.

I also think Lincoln Terrace and the area around OU Med are looking better all the time.

Lincoln Terrace already is an affluent area.... you can't find a house listed there right now under 400k.

Lincoln Terrace already is an affluent area.... you can't find a house listed there right now under 400k.

That's not true. There are a bunch of nice little homes in Lincoln Terrace that can be had for under $400k. Many require some work, but I think that's what OP is looking for. Buying cheap in a neighborhood that will appreciate over time. We bought less than a year ago and paid under $100 a sq ft in a very nice part of Lincoln Terrace. Links below for support. I walk the neighbhorhood frequently and can think of at least 4 other homes that are for sale by owner that are surely listed for well under the $225k mark.

https://tinyurl.com/ydb38tdm

https://tinyurl.com/y7fe4p5t

https://tinyurl.com/yd8h5g8x

https://tinyurl.com/y98e439k

Those aren't in Lincoln Terrace. I agree that around the capital is a good area for this, but specifically, in Lincoln Terrace, it's already pretty affluent. That'd be similar to saying Putnam Heights is an up-and-coming area. The areas around it are, but PH is already largely there. I know it may seem like I'm being pedantic, but I think it's important to strictly define neighborhood boundaries.

AP - what are the boundaries for Lincoln Terrace?

Oklahoma City reports crime based on neighborhood associations. In their reports, they list the boundaries of the NAs. For Lincoln Terrace, it is listed as North: NE 21st, South: NE 14th, East: Phillips Ave., West: Stiles Ave.

If you are interested, this is the latest report the Neighborhood Alliance of Central Oklahoma has available. It is from January 18 - February 18. http://nacok.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/NA-Crime-Report-2-1-2018-to-2-28-2018.pdf

Oklahoma City reports crime based on neighborhood associations. In their reports, they list the boundaries of the NAs. For Lincoln Terrace, it is listed as North: NE 21st, South: NE 14th, East: Phillips Ave., West: Stiles Ave.
Thanks, AP!

Lincoln Terrace already is an affluent area.... you can't find a house listed there right now under 400k.

Yeah, your right, I meant the neightborhoods east of Lincoln Terrace and OU Med.

Yeah, your right, I meant the neightborhoods east of Lincoln Terrace and OU Med.

That would be the medical community. There are some good buys there and plenty of houses selling for around 100,000 to be flipped and sold in the 200,000s range

Those aren't in Lincoln Terrace. I agree that around the capital is a good area for this, but specifically, in Lincoln Terrace, it's already pretty affluent. That'd be similar to saying Putnam Heights is an up-and-coming area. The areas around it are, but PH is already largely there. I know it may seem like I'm being pedantic, but I think it's important to strictly define neighborhood boundaries.

You're not being pedantic at all! I totally agree we need to be specific when discussing boundaries. Thank you for the clarification and information. I knew the area was divided between Lincoln Terrace proper and the Medical Community Neighborhood, but I was mistaken about the boundaries. I thought the medical community was everything east of Culbertson. Clearly it is not. I am attaching an image which should show the correct boundaries that you pointed out. I do believe there are homes in this boundary that are well under the $400k mark. Also, although it is incorrect, Zillow has the entire Lincoln Terrace/Medical Community labeled as Lincoln Terrace, so from the uneducated home buyer's perspective Lincoln Terrace is not out of reach.

Anywho, thanks!