That was painful to watch especially against a bunch of average players. Can’t remember Russ ever playing that bad through all 4 quarters. Will take a while to get it together but they will need to play a whole lot better to win tonight.

It sucks because though im living in OKLAHOMA I couldn't find a local broadcast of the THUNDER game. I don't have fox sports so im kind of bummed I couldn't watch my squad play. 4 points though? ""Gots'ta be mo careful"! We will iron out the kinks eventually.

It might be until Christmas or later before the team begins to mesh well. None of the Big 3 are playing well together right now.

I think they're 2 or so passes each possession away from looking like your GSW, SA's, and to an extent CLE. PG 13 and Melo will appreciate being single covered as opposed to double/triple covered. Meanwhile everybody still collapses on Russ.

The offense still more or less looks the same, but the talent got better and it's going in the bucket more as a result.

Glad/Surprised they were able to keep it close at the end after being down double digits for most of the game. Paul George's shots simply were not falling. Like, reaaaally wide open ones. Team free throws are concerning (looking at you Roberson) but, overall, it was encouraging.

OKC lost to two really good teams. It happens.

The thunder are in good company. Same record as GSW

Can someone explain why 2Pat is getting like zero playing time?

I know it is early, but Roberson is looking horrible right now. I wouldn't mind seeing literally any other player get some of those minutes. Even the defense hasn't been that stunning.

Can someone explain why 2Pat is getting like zero playing time?

He's returning from an injury and not 100% yet. He'll definitely play a larger role when he's healthy and in shape.


I know it is early, but Roberson is looking horrible right now. I wouldn't mind seeing literally any other player get some of those minutes. Even the defense hasn't been that stunning.

Why do you say Roberson's defense hasn't been great? Roberson has to play for this team to be successful. He's a top 5 defensive player in the league and OKC needs him guarding players like Jimmy Butler. There is no one on the bench who even comes close to effecting the game the way he does defensively. Offensively, I fault Billy for not getting Roberson more active as a screener and pick and roll player. When Roberson is slashing to the basket he can more effective than hanging out on the perimeter. Having said that, Roberson has to get his mind right. It's clear that he's just psyched out at the line. Thinking way, way too much.

It probably doesn't go like that often cause his defender is already surrounding the paint. They get to help their team by surrounding Adams for PnR, and going unpunished for leaving him open at the 3.

PG13's shots were hitting the front of the rim, which is a sign of fatigue. He's averaging the most minutes on the team right now. Keep in mind this was the third game in 4 days, almost a scheduled loss after playing late Saturday and early Sunday.

It will come together in a week or two.

You just have to tip your hat to Andrew Wiggins. The kid is turning into the young Lebron James most experts thought he could become. I know he didn’t call “bank” on that last shot, but it was an amazing play nonetheless.

Though loss.

Give these guys time to jell. We have new additions to the team; they will need to adjust to one another.

You just have to tip your hat to Andrew Wiggins. The kid is turning into the young Lebron James most experts thought he could become. I know he didn’t call “bank” on that last shot, but it was an amazing play nonetheless.

Well I look at it as some karma for Melo.... in 2003 one and done Melo almost single handedly beat the Jayhawks for a National Championship and last night a former one and done Jayhawk stole his Thunder.

Well I look at it as some karma for Melo.... in 2003 one and done Melo almost single handedly beat the Jayhawks for a National Championship and last night a former one and done Jayhawk stole his Thunder.

True. Although I would also argue that our own Nick Collison played a big role in the Jayhawks' defeat that night. He shot 3/10 from the free throw line.

It probably doesn't go like that often cause his defender is already surrounding the paint. They get to help their team by surrounding Adams for PnR, and going unpunished for leaving him open at the 3.

Which is why you put Robes in a pick and poll as a screener. If he screens for a playmaker and his man is in the paint then they would get destroyed with either wide open jump shots or free runs to the basket. Both of those actions require Andre's defender to come up on him.

Roberson has to be used as a screener/cutter and needs to move on offense or else his minutes will be seriously limited and he'll be relegated to 'specialty defender' status. The arrival of Paul George makes Roberson less of a dire need in the starting lineup and Roberson with the bench absolutely annihilates spacing.

I'm aware of his defensive prowess as much as anyone, but him standing with his hands on his knees in the corner is inexcusable. His freethrows are obvious, but what's more frustrating is that he's been used like that for the past few years. Why?? He needs to move when he's on the floor or else he's borderline unplayable against teams that don't have dominate wing scorers.

Some of the blame rightfully falls on Roberson for his flaws, but if Billy doesn't utilize him properly when he's on the floor then he's as much to blame.

Even with Goerge, OKC doesn't have the luxury of just benching Roberson. Abrines was absolutely torched down the stretch. But, yeah, Roberson should probably play less against teams without dominant wings. If he can get his pyche right, I'd like to see his minutes swing between 15-20 (facing bad offensive wings) to 30-35 (facing great offensive wings).

True. Although I would also argue that our own Nick Collison played a big role in the Jayhawks' defeat that night. He shot 3/10 from the free throw line.

HAHA.... Umm... There's no reason to remember that! ;)

Small sample size obviously, but I thought Josh Huestis played decent defense last night and rebounded the ball well. Ferguson sprained his ankle which is why Huestis played in the first place, but I'd like to see him get some more minutes to see what he's like.

Dude's been in the G-League for like 13 years, see if he's useful or get rid of him.

#FreeHeustis

#FreeHeustis

I'm completely on the Huestis train. Team played much better defense when he was in for Abrines. (I think Abrines is going to be good btw, but he's obviously not a defender)

Roberson has to be used as a screener/cutter and needs to move on offense or else his minutes will be seriously limited and he'll be relegated to 'specialty defender' status. The arrival of Paul George makes Roberson less of a dire need in the starting lineup and Roberson with the bench absolutely annihilates spacing.

I'm aware of his defensive prowess as much as anyone, but him standing with his hands on his knees in the corner is inexcusable. His freethrows are obvious, but what's more frustrating is that he's been used like that for the past few years. Why?? He needs to move when he's on the floor or else he's borderline unplayable against teams that don't have dominate wing scorers.

Some of the blame rightfully falls on Roberson for his flaws, but if Billy doesn't utilize him properly when he's on the floor then he's as much to blame.

I get that people like his defense....I do too. But man its hard trying to convince yourself (myself) we need his defense when other teams completely disregard him in OUr half-court sets. Then we doubled down on him and sign him to another contract when Avery Bradley is out there who defends better than him and scores too. I like him and understand his defensive contributions but after so long we become insane to presume we can do the same things and get different results.

Then again, im sure I sound like such a hypocrite when expressing elation that we got carmelo Anthony yet expecting him to buckle down and play defense when it was never his strong-suit. I was skeptical at first but after the trade I have been all-in. Maybe we just need to give OUr thunder more time to gel? I do like and trust Coach Donovan so I bet he gets this all figured out

Avery Bradly does not defend better than Roberson.

Avery Bradly does not defend better than Roberson.

Roberson has his issues, but the number one problem with the anti-Roberson group is they refuse to admit that Roberson is an elite defender who changes the game on that end of the floor. He is head and shoulders above Avery Bradley not just because of his skill, but his defensive versatility (not saying I wouldn't consider a Bradley for Roberson trade). Part of this is that a lot of people see defense just being about effort, not as a skillset. Roberson has elite defensive skills that other players cannot replicate with effort.

I'm not tryhing to be a Roberson homer. His offesive problems, especially right now, are a real issue. But we can't ignore Roberson's track record of contributing to team success.

Per Fred Katz of the Norman Transcript, there are rumblings that Roberson had an injection in his knee before the season and Donovan hinted in interviews that he's "working his way back." Roberson isn't playing that well right now, but 2/3rds of the roster aren't really either.

It's been literally 3 games. Just give him and the team time. I have faith Roberson will be fine, as will the rest of the players.

I'm all for 'playoff Roberson'. But so far these first few games, it has been embarrassing. I felt horrible for him last night with those freethrows. His confidence has got to be at an all-time-low.

I feel terrible for the fans who have to watch his feeble attempts and the owners for paying him as a world class talent throwing up that garbage. I think the time has passed and he needs to start practicing the underhand technique of Rick Barry.

^^^^^Lol

I like Robertson I do. The guy is.....lets just call it ' challenged' on the offensive side of the ball, to say the least or be nice however you want to look at it. And its just my opinion but Avery Bradley is hands down better at guarding the 2 position. But that's why Andre is so valuable, the guy played as a big man at Colorado I believe. So he can grab boards and defend multiple positions.

But it doesn't matter what he does defensively when he handicaps the half court offensive sets. Its not hard to see it. Its clear as day. Guys just do not respect him and simply clog the lanes.

Look, I like Andre but.....Andrew wiggins? 10-20 for 27 points last night.

Like I said before. I trust coach Donovan to iron this out. Doubt there is a bigger THUNDER fan than me but I am also not blind.....he is a problem for us in OUr halfcourt offense....PERIOD! He sucks at free throws, he awkwardly shoots the ball before he jumps and the ball rolls off the side of his hand on the way there, he hairballs free throws....like, lmbo, the heck are we talking about here Lol.....he bet on his self and hit the free market then came right back to OKC.

Its like, why can't we acknowledge the guy is a decent defender that sucks offensively (stating the obvious) without being a hater? Its the truth.....just wish we could have AT LEAST given Avery Bradley a shot.....A better 2 guard defender and WAAAAYYYY better offensively!

If he was an ELITE defender surely somebody else would've out bid us. Lets stop kidding ourselves.

I think OKC_on_mines hit it on the head. The "problem" with the "haters" is that we've poorly argued that there'd be a better trade off with an average 2 way player. Call me out if I misinterpreted your point OKC_on_mines.

I thought I demonstrated that by pointing out the Kanter hypocrisy.

Spot on for half the point. I just have trouble with the notion that pointing out Andre being a handicap for OUr half court sets makes me anti-Robertson. I actually like the guy. I have always hoped he could mature into half of what Jimmy butler does (or cj mccollum, klay Thompson, kawhi Leonard, Avery Bradley, the old wesley mathews, etc).

I would argue the legitimacy of kanter till I was red in the face.....but he never developed defensively. All that footwork offensively and yet it never translate to defenisvley moving his feet into good position....he played in cement on defense.

I'm glad you like him. Seeing him made me wish we kept Thabo with his pump fake two step brick. Heck I'd have settled for Tony Allen, and I laughed when he was on the court.

Poor thabo Lol....he shot the 3 better when he want in OKC oddly enough.

Poor thabo Lol....he shot the 3 better when he want in OKC oddly enough.

I think its cause ball movement was a bigger deal on the Hawks than in OKC.

I feel terrible for the fans who have to watch his feeble attempts and the owners for paying him as a world class talent throwing up that garbage. I think the time has passed and he needs to start practicing the underhand technique of Rick Barry.

He said he tried it this summer and the results were not good. I'd say he should try harder.

I feel terrible for the fans who have to watch his feeble attempts and the owners for paying him as a world class talent throwing up that garbage. I think the time has passed and he needs to start practicing the underhand technique of Rick Barry.

It was recently reported that Roberson already tried it and didn't have success with it. I know we all think we have an answer to Roberson's free throw problems, but does everyone really think OKC and Roberson haven't been working on this endlessly? These are mental and skill problems, not a work ethic or lack of creativity problems. Some players worked tirelessly their entire careers to improve free throws and saw no results. In the case of some skills, hard work does not always lead to improvement.

^^^^^Lol

I like Robertson I do. The guy is.....lets just call it ' challenged' on the offensive side of the ball, to say the least or be nice however you want to look at it. And its just my opinion but Avery Bradley is hands down better at guarding the 2 position. But that's why Andre is so valuable, the guy played as a big man at Colorado I believe. So he can grab boards and defend multiple positions.

But it doesn't matter what he does defensively when he handicaps the half court offensive sets. Its not hard to see it. Its clear as day. Guys just do not respect him and simply clog the lanes.

Look, I like Andre but.....Andrew wiggins? 10-20 for 27 points last night.

Like I said before. I trust coach Donovan to iron this out. Doubt there is a bigger THUNDER fan than me but I am also not blind.....he is a problem for us in OUr halfcourt offense....PERIOD! He sucks at free throws, he awkwardly shoots the ball before he jumps and the ball rolls off the side of his hand on the way there, he hairballs free throws....like, lmbo, the heck are we talking about here Lol.....he bet on his self and hit the free market then came right back to OKC.

Its like, why can't we acknowledge the guy is a decent defender that sucks offensively (stating the obvious) without being a hater? Its the truth.....just wish we could have AT LEAST given Avery Bradley a shot.....A better 2 guard defender and WAAAAYYYY better offensively!

There's just no evidence to suggest that Avery Bradley is even in the vicinity of Roberson defensively. Roberson is an absolute elite defender - maybe top 5 in the entire league. Here's the comparison between Roberson and Bradley (https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Andre+Roberson&player_id1_select=Andre+Roberson&player_id1=roberan03&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Avery+Bradley&player_id2_select=Avery+Bradley&player_id2=bradlav01&idx=players). The overwhelming evidence suggests that not only is Roberson in a completely different defensive league to Bradley, he's probably a more effective player overall.

Here's the overall evidence:
- Roberson has twice the overall value (not defensively, overall!) of Bradley according to VORP (1.2 to 0.6)
- Roberson's win shares per 48 minutes (how many wins he contributes to overall) is 0.89 to 0.59
- Roberson has a higher overall box plus/minus at 0.0 to Bradley's -0.7
- Roberson even has a higher OFFENSIVE win share than Bradley at 3.6 to 2.3 and true shooting percentage .525 to .519 (Roberson shoots over 60% from the field to Bradley's 47%; BTW, I don't think Roberson is actually a better offensive player, but he can be effective in what he does as is evidence by his high field goal percentage)

Here's the defensive evidence:
- Roberson's defensive box plus/minus is 2.1 to Bradley's negative rating of -0.5 (that's a huge difference)
- Roberson's block percentage is 2.2 to Bradley's 0.6
- Roberson's defensive rebound percentage is 14 to Bradley's 9.5
The only stats that are in Bradley's favor are because he plays more minutes. You can argue that is important. But when Roberson is on the floor, he is clearly a better player and a dramatically better defensive player than Avery Bradley.

I used their career state above, but their stats from last season show the same results (see here (https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Andre+roberson&player_id1_select=Andre+Roberson&y1=2017&player_id1=roberan03&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Avery+Bradley&player_id2_select=Avery+Bradley&y2=2017&player_id2=bradlav01&idx=players)).

The stats pretty dramatically show that Roberson is not only way better defensively, but just better period. I know Roberson is frustrating, but we can't just start making up that Roberson isn't that good of a defender or player when he is. Season after season he has been in many of OKC's best lineups. Everyone is so focused on what Roberson can't do, they don't focus on what he does well. In general, most fans can't actually identify good defensive players anyway so they don't get credit.

I feel terrible for the fans who have to watch his feeble attempts and the owners for paying him as a world class talent throwing up that garbage. I think the time has passed and he needs to start practicing the underhand technique of Rick Barry.

Agree, he needs to try something (under hand, over hand, fingerling), because he continues to get the same bad results. Those large lunch-grabbers of his doesn't allow him to get a good feel for the ball. His odds are like tossing a quarter at the state fair lucky strike game--trying to center the quarter.

I'd be happy if he could at least hit the rim with those free throws.... Those two airballs were tough to watch... At least use the backboard.

Watching those two airballs made me wonder if he has a vision/depth perception problem at that range among the other issues with his shot.

The vision depth perception thing might be valid.

Maybe he just needs to get some glasses and he'll start shooting ~40% from 3. :wink:

Maybe he just needs to get some glasses and he'll start shooting ~40% from 3. :wink:

Maybe 39%... 40% is probably pushing it.

Okay, I'll bite. Maybe a teenage klutz becomes the star of his high-school basketball team when he magically acquires the abilities of his hero, NBA star Andre Roberson -- but the switch leaves Roberson unable to shoot free throws

.

Oklahoma City Thunder 114 - Indiana Pacers 96

Box score: http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400974811

Westbrook triple double: REB 10, AST 16, PTS 28

Think he averages another triple double this year?

Certainly possible. Rebounds will be the tough category.

Yeah. I think the assists go up. How about my guy Steven Adams ? Every year he gets better. Might be the best center in the league!

Yeah. I think the assists go up. How about my guy Steven Adams ? Every year he gets better. Might be the best center in the league!

Definitely among the best centers in the NBA. He'll get another crack at Utah's Rudy Gobert & Minnesota's Karl-Anthony Towns.

Oh yea. And he is still pretty young. But he is so unselfish. One of my favorite THUNDER!

Adams didn't have a good year last year. I think it had a lot to do with opponents would just crowd the lane. They can't do that this year with PG13 and HoodieMelo outside.

Felton has been a huge improvement over backwards James. Good to see 2Pat get some points last night, along with Huestis and Ferguson.

I'd be happy if he could at least hit the rim with those free throws.... Those two airballs were tough to watch... At least use the backboard.

Watching those two airballs made me wonder if he has a vision/depth perception problem at that range among the other issues with his shot.

Heard it was Dre's exceptionally large hands...

Did a quick comparison:

Former Thunder Players

Oladipo- 26.0 ppg
Kanter 14.3 ppg
McDermott 5.0 ppg
Smith, Ish 6,4 ppg
Jackson R 15.2 ppg
Lamb, J 15.8 ppg
Sabonis 11.2 ppg
Lavergne, J 6.0 ppg

Current Thunder players

Heustis 1.5 ppg
Ferguson .7 ppg
Grant 6.8 ppg
Hamilton, D 0.0 ppg
Singler 0.0ppg
Collison 0.0 ppg
Dozier 0.0 ppg
Felton 7.8 ppg
Melo 24.8 ppg
George 18.5 ppg

Our bench will be our achilles heel this year

lmao

Dozier hasn't even played a G League game ever, so yep he's a zero.

Singler and Collison more than likely won't see the court this year so yep they will be zero also.


So what I'm saying is they will have no impact to the season other than in practice.

Did a quick comparison:

Former Thunder Players

Oladipo- 26.0 ppg
Kanter 14.3 ppg
McDermott 5.0 ppg
Smith, Ish 6,4 ppg
Jackson R 15.2 ppg
Lamb, J 15.8 ppg
Sabonis 11.2 ppg
Lavergne, J 6.0 ppg

Current Thunder players

Heustis 1.5 ppg
Ferguson .7 ppg
Grant 6.8 ppg
Hamilton, D 0.0 ppg
Singler 0.0ppg
Collison 0.0 ppg
Dozier 0.0 ppg
Felton 7.8 ppg
Melo 24.8 ppg
George 18.5 ppg

Our bench will be our achilles heel this year

This is a weird analysis that randomly pulls players from over several years who are in very different situations and uses only raw stats, which really aren't instructive. Scoring more points does not mean that you're better. It may just mean that you're on a bad team and thus taking more shots.

More than anything though, the bench was the Achilles heel last season. Lol.

The bench units will be much better this season for multiple reasons, including (a) an elite scorer will stagger minutes with bench units, (b) the upgrades at point guard (Semaj to Felton) and power forward (Sabonis to Patterson) will be significant, and (c) some young players will likely improve, namely Abrines. Once the playoffs arrive I expect OKC to have a 9 man rotation (Starters + Abrines, Patterson, Felton, Grant). Anything beyond that is bonus. But, yeah, in the regular season, Ferguson and Huestis will get a chance to prove themselves and it could be bumpy at times. But, this bench is far more ready for the playoffs than last year when three of the main contributors (Kanter, McBuckets, and Sabonis) were basically benched against the Rockets. None of the top 9 will be benched from this year's team.

I think Felton is going to prove to be a really solid pickup for this team. He didn't light it up or anything last night, but it's so nice to have a reliable 2nd point guard that can control the flow of the game somewhat.

Carmelo hit it on the head last night when they asked about PG's off night. The main draw for him to OKC was they now have the ability for one of their stars to have an off night and still succeed. With 3 all-stars we can stagger our lineups where there won't be the giant offensive lull we have had in the past. Adams' is going to be a monster with the spacing our stars now command... can't wait for us to hit our stride.

This is a weird analysis that randomly pulls players from over several years who are in very different situations and uses only raw stats, which really aren't instructive. Scoring more points does not mean that you're better. It may just mean that you're on a bad team and thus taking more shots.

More than anything though, the bench was the Achilles heel last season. Lol.

The bench units will be much better this season for multiple reasons, including (a) an elite scorer will stagger minutes with bench units, (b) the upgrades at point guard (Semaj to Felton) and power forward (Sabonis to Patterson) will be significant, and (c) some young players will likely improve, namely Abrines. Once the playoffs arrive I expect OKC to have a 9 man rotation (Starters + Abrines, Patterson, Felton, Grant). Anything beyond that is bonus. But, yeah, in the regular season, Ferguson and Huestis will get a chance to prove themselves and it could be bumpy at times. But, this bench is far more ready for the playoffs than last year when three of the main contributors (Kanter, McBuckets, and Sabonis) were basically benched against the Rockets. None of the top 9 will be benched from this year's team.

Did a quick Comparison not Analysis

Shocking, dcsooner finds something to fit his MO of always finding the negatives in anything related to OKC

We were all set to pick up tickets and see OKC play the wolves up here in MSP tomorrow night, but my allegiance to my hometown Astros trumps that so I'll be somewhere watching game 3