Pete,
Oakdale? Wow, I'm surprised you even knew about that place. My boys attended Oakdale which was originally a dependent district in Wicher, Oklahoma. Schools are part of the system of the county that they are physically located in. Somebody mentioned S. W. 82nd and that is true. Cleveland does go that far North. Fairview on S. W. 89th is in Cleveland County and part of the Moore school system (another place my older son attended for two years). We learned that when our boys finished 8th grade, that we could send our boys to any school system in Oklahoma County as long as we were willing to take care of transportation. Most of our kids went to Edmond and they did have an agreement to pick up our kids and bring them home. The ability of children in dependent schools (those that don't have grades k through 12) to choose any school in Oklahoma County is an Oklahoma county law. We chose Jones schools for our boys. And I'm sorry, I'm not sure if this helps anybody or not and I'm not sure it has anything to do with the thread. Oh well, it's not the first time I ran my mouth too much.
C. T.

CT, good info, but I do need to clarify one bit of information. The Oklahoma County-Cleveland County border is S 89th street. Cleveland County does not extend to SW 82; only the Moore school *district* does. SW 82nd is Oklahoma County all the way. Fairview Elementary, on the north side of SW 89th, is in *Oklahoma* county.

This is how dire the situation has become:

http://kfor.com/2017/08/17/oklahoma-city-public-schools-considers-legal-action-against-state-lawmakers/

This is how dire the situation has become:

http://kfor.com/2017/08/17/oklahoma-city-public-schools-considers-legal-action-against-state-lawmakers/

Gotta admit, my jaw dropped when I read the superintendent's message this morning.

This is how dire the situation has become:

http://kfor.com/2017/08/17/oklahoma-city-public-schools-considers-legal-action-against-state-lawmakers/

Most don't care enough to do anything about it. They will vote the same way come election time. Not realizing that by doing that, the youth of this state fall farther and farther behind (as well as the economy, since companies don't want to be where qualified candidates are scarce). Starts with elementary and high school, then moves up to college.

There is no city/state that can continue strong growth and competitiveness without a strong educational component.

I've been saying for a long time to stop giving tax dollars and cuts to big business and developers and start properly funding our schools.

We are completely mortgaging our future.

There is no city/state that can continue strong growth and competitiveness without a strong educational component.

I've been saying for a long time to stop giving tax dollars and cuts to big business and developers and start properly funding our schools.

We are completely mortgaging our future.

I agree with where you are coming from, this is my main complaint with all this. But what confuses me is you make statements like this, but then want us to raise the sales tax so citizens are having to front more of the burden.

Let's fix the problem and stop trying to fix the symptoms as they come up. We will never fix our education system doing it that way.

Those that aren't paying their fair share whether it be because of this or that, doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. They need to suck it up and pay their fair share.

And then you know what, if we are still in this hole, sure I'm all for getting us to a level where we can be proud of our education system. If at that point it means raising the sales tax a half a cent or whatever, I'm all for it.

Citizens completely bear the burden regardless of how schools are funded.

This initiative is merely a band-aid; a finger in the dike while the legislature can't even come up with over $200 million needed now, after already making ridiculous cuts to school funding.


We can either sit around and complain about what the state isn't doing -- and hasn't been doing for a long time -- or we can do something ourselves to stay afloat until they become more responsible.

And BTW, the reason we are so revenue strapped is due to not properly taxing O&G and giving absurd economic incentives across the board. It's a completely failed experiment in trickle-down economics.

None of this is going to be corrected in the 4 years this initiative would help cover.

Yes, thanks. As a fellow Jersey guy, I find it crazy (regardless of how it happened) that school districts seem almost completely separate from municipal boundaries. And to have 3 (+?) districts (OKC, PC, Western Heights) all well within OKC city limits, nevermind all the other examples? Yeesh.

+1, Exit 135.

+1, Exit 135.

15E. :cool:

Citizens completely bear the burden regardless of how schools are funded.

This initiative is merely a band-aid; a finger in the dike while the legislature can't even come up with over $200 million needed now, after already making ridiculous cuts to school funding.


We can either sit around and complain about what the state isn't doing -- and hasn't been doing for a long time -- or we can do something ourselves to stay afloat until they become more responsible.

And BTW, the reason we are so revenue strapped is due to not properly taxing O&G and giving absurd economic incentives across the board. It's a completely failed experiment in trickle-down economics.

None of this is going to be corrected in the 4 years this initiative would help cover.

So what are citizens? Is it all of us? Homeowners? Business owners? Companies?

Because your own wording alludes to both, which makes what you are saying very confusing. When I said citizens, I meant all of us that own homes and generally buy things in the store, explicitly excluding entities such as a business.

So with that it is absolutely not up to citizens to be completely burdened with funding schools. It's up to everyone, including those entities which are not paying their fair share, something you are agreeing with.

I'm going to go into much detail on the last one. I respect the hell out of you Pete, I mean that, but that last comment is exactly the poor attitude that leads to no change.

Overall I think we agree, everyone needs to pay their fair share, and at best this is a band-aid fix. I just happen to be on the side against a band-aid fix.

I have to say I'm not even following what you are trying to say or argue against.

My points are about this issue in general, not the opinion of any one person.

Something has to be done and soon and holding on to the idea that somehow at the state level this is going to be resolved in the near future is folly.

I have to say I'm not even following what you are trying to say or argue against.

My points are about this issue in general, not the opinion of any one person.

Something has to be done and soon and holding on to the idea that somehow at the state level this is going to be resolved in the near future is folly.

I mean I asked a question, not sure how to be much clearer than that.

You made the statement - Citizens completely bear the burden regardless of how schools are funded.

And I disagree. Because companies also share this burden.

Which you later agreed to. So it's rather you are using 2 different definitions of the word citizen, or you contradicted your own statement.

My point was when you say it's the 'citizens burden completely' this isn't true, because companies are not citizens (in my mind at least) and they also are a large contributing factor to education.

I too am not referencing anyone specific. I just want companies to pay their fair share and to stop being given tax breaks for every little thing they ever do.

I have to say, looking out of state for new work is looking more appealing everyday. Low cost of living and family has kept me in Oklahoma my whole life, but I really feel like I'm on a sinking ship sometimes.

So what are citizens? Is it all of us? Homeowners? Business owners? Companies?

Because your own wording alludes to both, which makes what you are saying very confusing. When I said citizens, I meant all of us that own homes and generally buy things in the store, explicitly excluding entities such as a business.

So with that it is absolutely not up to citizens to be completely burdened with funding schools. It's up to everyone, including those entities which are not paying their fair share, something you are agreeing with.

I'm going to go into much detail on the last one. I respect the hell out of you Pete, I mean that, but that last comment is exactly the poor attitude that leads to no change.

Overall I think we agree, everyone needs to pay their fair share, and at best this is a band-aid fix. I just happen to be on the side against a band-aid fix.

Then by all means, do something to create permanent fix. Oh wait, it won't happen. No matter how hard you try, it just won't happen. Hasn't in a decade. Legislators do not want to create new revenue streams, and keep blaming everyone but themselves. Band-aid fixes are all we can hope for in this corrupt state, where change never comes.

CT, good info, but I do need to clarify one bit of information. The Oklahoma County-Cleveland County border is S 89th street. Cleveland County does not extend to SW 82; only the Moore school *district* does. SW 82nd is Oklahoma County all the way. Fairview Elementary, on the north side of SW 89th, is in *Oklahoma* county.

SoonerDave,
I stand corrected. I should have checked the map before I made my comment. So, now I'm confused. Why would Moore schools extend out of Cleveland county ? By the way, my late wife was a school nurse in Moore and Fairview was one of her schools. Not that that makes me an expert, just a comment.
C. T.

I voted against the sales tax state question because I felt that a) sales tax is regressive b) ours is high enough and c) it would impede local initiatives like MAPs.

As much as the whole situation disgusts me, I'll probably go in for this one. I don't have kids, but the state of our schools is an embarrassment. I can complain that we need to increase production taxes and the like, but I don't see it happening. We're on track to becoming Brownbackistan II, and no one seems to care that a similar type of experiment failed just north of us. They just keep voting the same people in who are too busy sucking Big Oil's dick and suing the feds over point-scoring political items.

Besides, our taxes are low as hell here. I can afford to throw in a few hundred dollars a year so some teacher doesn't have to drive for Uber after hours since our reps are to gutless to do anything about it.

Vito's Restaurant (7521 N. May Ave) is a location for anyone to sign the Save OKC Schools Initiative Petition Mon-Sat from 5:00-10:00 pm. Can also pick-up/drop off petitions. IMO It's also the best Italian food in OKC www.vitosokc.com

I voted against the sales tax state question because I felt that a) sales tax is regressive b) ours is high enough and c) it would impede local initiatives like MAPs.

As much as the whole situation disgusts me, I'll probably go in for this one. I don't have kids, but the state of our schools is an embarrassment. I can complain that we need to increase production taxes and the like, but I don't see it happening. We're on track to becoming Brownbackistan II, and no one seems to care that a similar type of experiment failed just north of us. They just keep voting the same people in who are too busy sucking Big Oil's dick and suing the feds over point-scoring political items.

Besides, our taxes are low as hell here. I can afford to throw in a few hundred dollars a year so some teacher doesn't have to drive for Uber after hours since our reps are to gutless to do anything about it.

Agreed 100%. The sales tax initiative was well-intentioned (mostly) but as you said regressive, and especially harmful in a state that charges sales tax on groceries.

Honestly, I was in the "fix it at the state level" camp until I saw the reactions of my teacher friends to the 'No' vote on the 1% sales tax. They were all very disheartened, feel the people of this state don't value their work, and some have begun to explore job possibilities elsewhere. This doesn't necessarily mean I wish that particular SQ had passed, but I definitely support this initiative since it doesn't have the same problems: this tax is progressive, and all the money (ostensibly) is going to OKC teachers and staff, none for administrators and none for higher education.

Personally, I'm done waiting around while we hemorrhage teachers, and I'm not willing to sit and watch our great city be dragged down by the state legislature. Is this the best case scenario? Absolutely not. But it appears to be the best case that's actually realistic.

Agreed 100%. The sales tax initiative was well-intentioned (mostly) but as you said regressive, and especially harmful in a state that charges sales tax on groceries.

Honestly, I was in the "fix it at the state level" camp until I saw the reactions of my teacher friends to the 'No' vote on the 1% sales tax. They were all very disheartened, feel the people of this state don't value their work, and some have begun to explore job possibilities elsewhere. This doesn't necessarily mean I wish that particular SQ had passed, but I definitely support this initiative since it doesn't have the same problems: this tax is progressive, and all the money (ostensibly) is going to OKC teachers and staff, none for administrators and none for higher education.

Personally, I'm done waiting around while we hemorrhage teachers, and I'm not willing to sit and watch our great city be dragged down by the state legislature. Is this the best case scenario? Absolutely not. But it appears to be the best case that's actually realistic.

Well said. The shortage in teachers may actually be only beginning to accelerate. We have to do something. Good article by Ben Felder this morning describing worsening teacher shortage.

http://http://newsok.com/two-thirds-of-districts-reported-hiring-was-worse-than-last-year-according-to-a-new-survey-of-school-districts-across-the-state/article/5561051

Well said. The shortage in teachers may actually be only beginning to accelerate. We have to do something. Good article by Ben Felder this morning describing worsening teacher shortage.

http://http://newsok.com/two-thirds-of-districts-reported-hiring-was-worse-than-last-year-according-to-a-new-survey-of-school-districts-across-the-state/article/5561051

Link doesn't work.

Link doesn't work.

http://newsok.com/article/5561051

Not OKC school-specific, but a really good article about making schools better by a guy that helped start the Center for Collaborative Education (CCE) - an advocacy and support organization that would facilitate the expansion of our network of small, democratic schools across New York City.

Only democratic schools will save us (http://www.salon.com/2017/09/17/only-democratic-schools-will-save-us-2/) (notice it's a small "d") :)

They have the required signatures and will be filing today to be included on the ballot.

Press release coming soon.