I thought there was talk before of simply cutting the floors out creating a 13-14 ft ceiling.

Also, kind of funny that no TIF money is available for this when there's been countless other projects that questionably got tif money.

The decision has been deferred until 12/21/2021. This gives Marva time to figure out a gameplan for the redevelopment.

Tell me more...

OKC upgraded municipal auditorium (currently Civic Center Music Hall) in the original MAPS initiative; also recently recall this proposal in October 2020: https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/development/renovations-new-addition-planned-for-civic-center-music-hall/?back=super_blog

As for the old city jail, why would you need it (Eyesore). IMO there isn't anything significant about this structure other than it once being used to transfer those in temporary incarceration across the street to the county.

Too many bad memories of this place during the late 60s integration.

Demolish it and burn it. And when you're through with burning it--burn the ashes...

Given that, i wonder if there's any interest in turning it into a museum for civil rights?

Given that, i wonder if there's any interest in turning it into a museum for civil rights?

Just want to applaud the council for taking their time; being in no hurry to make a quick decision.

As far as a museum for civil rights bombermwc, city could use one because there is a lot of history that could be catalogued. Would prefer something closer on sight to the FAM museum near the old fairgrounds (Douglass High School). MAPS 4 has $25 million in funds for the Freedom Center an Clara Luper Civil Rights Center.

The trouble with the old jail site that some might question would be locking the famous civil rights leader's legacy up and entombing her memories in the very place that silenced her movement.

Seriously don't care what the city does with the old jail; if they can salvage it (Diversion Hub) and turn it into something useful like a MAPS 4 project; go for it. The Freedom Center & Luper museum project needs to be built on the eastside--preference at the old Freedom Center site 2609 N Martin Luther King Avenue or vicinity.

Given that, i wonder if there's any interest in turning it into a museum for civil rights?

What a great idea. Kuddos for thinking of it.

I thought there was talk before of simply cutting the floors out creating a 13-14 ft ceiling.

Also, kind of funny that no TIF money is available for this when there's been countless other projects that questionably got tif money.
This would make sense for largish rooms. Like meeting, conference, etc. rooms. I can't see three floors of not quite 7' storage areas.

I talked to Allison about this and those areas could be used for storage. That's not uncommon to have basements or shorter floors for storage especially older buildings. And I am not sure as I haven't ever been in the building, but I don't think that many are that low.I used to do quite a bit of service work in there. It was 30 years ago but I remember ceilings being really short and I'm only 5'7". I'm pretty sure the comment about it being the top 3 floors is right.

Whatever ends up I hope they remodel/refurbish the existing building. It "fits" the area.

With the jail being in the Arts District, have artist studios and rehearsal space for musicians ever been discussed? I'm sure the reno costs would be comparatively low, but I'm also guessing the city would have to pony up for something like this. Apologies if this idea has already been suggested/discussed.

With the jail being in the Arts District, have artist studios and rehearsal space for musicians ever been discussed? I'm sure the reno costs would be comparatively low, but I'm also guessing the city would have to pony up for something like this. Apologies if this idea has already been suggested/discussed.

Great idea... Also what about a memorial & museum dedicated to law enforcement who have given their lives answering the call of duty.

I am seeing how this area is a challenge....this is the working center of police, courts and incarceration for Oklahoma City. I'm not sure how attractive it is for "artists" with the "cop house" right next door? And a civil rights museum would be confronted with the ongoing image of arrest and incarceration being an outsized presence in the Black community.

One amazing thing that could happen is that the city use the building for the aim to enable prisoners to lead a life of social responsibility free of crime upon release. It would be groundbreaking for this state! I also don't think we need a museum about law enforcement, doesn't make sense to waste money on a project that won't be beneficial to our community.

This area isn’t a challenge. half million dollar condos, the civic center, bars, restaurants, apartments, breweries, and offices, are all within a 5 min walk from this location. Tearing this down to build a parking lot is ridiculous. We cheer when a parking lot is turned into a useful building in the core and then turn around and create more useless space by tearing down a building to build a parking lot. The 70s are over. We should have learned our lesson by now.

I am seeing how this area is a challenge....this is the working center of police, courts and incarceration for Oklahoma City. I'm not sure how attractive it is for "artists" with the "cop house" right next door? And a civil rights museum would be confronted with the ongoing image of arrest and incarceration being an outsized presence in the Black community.
But maybe in done right. Which would take input from the right parties. The idea could show that different, historically adverse, groups and ideas can come together.

The county jail is almost certain to be relocated at some point and then this property only becomes much more valuable and important.

The footprint is small; the old police/court building to the east would yield a fair number of spaces but I can't imagine the jail property would accommodate more than 10-20 cars. That is not going to make much difference and they can wait to redevelop this property.

Would a hostel not work? If things go my way I’ve always thought opening a hostel if get the money. I’m surprised OKC still doesn’t have a hostel downtown.

Just want to applaud the council for taking their time; being in no hurry to make a quick decision.

As far as a museum for civil rights bombermwc, city could use one because there is a lot of history that could be catalogued. Would prefer something closer on sight to the FAM museum near the old fairgrounds (Douglass High School). MAPS 4 has $25 million in funds for the Freedom Center an Clara Luper Civil Rights Center.

The trouble with the old jail site that some might question would be locking the famous civil rights leader's legacy up and entombing her memories in the very place that silenced her movement.

Seriously don't care what the city does with the old jail; if they can salvage it (Diversion Hub) and turn it into something useful like a MAPS 4 project; go for it. The Freedom Center & Luper museum project needs to be built on the eastside--preference at the old Freedom Center site 2609 N Martin Luther King Avenue or vicinity.

thing is, her movement was not silenced, and it is often the case that buildings where world events took place are either honored as museums or (sadly) torn down to forget that memory. I vote OKC should turn it into a museum - maybe not a civil rights museum but some sort of museum of OKC's history. ...

The county jail is almost certain to be relocated at some point and then this property only becomes much more valuable and important.

The footprint is small; the old police/court building to the east would yield a fair number of spaces but I can't imagine the jail property would accommodate more than 10-20 cars. That is not going to make much difference and they can wait to redevelop this property.

Pete, that's a great point and what I was wondering - why not just tear down the old police HQ and lab and build the darn parking lot (garage would be even better though) and leave the jail building alone? What's the hurry to tear down the multi-floor, historic building when you'd get max of 20 parking spots from it in the grand scheme of things.

Pete, that's a great point and what I was wondering - why not just tear down the old police HQ and lab and build the darn parking lot (garage would be even better though) and leave the jail building alone? What's the hurry to tear down the multi-floor, historic building when you'd get max of 20 parking spots from it in the grand scheme of things.

I'm not screaming conspiracy, and my memory is a little fuzzy, but I recall there is a struggle between the city and the police union regarding land and parking in this area. IIRC the union owns property in the area and wanted to build a parking garage, but neighbors complained about the height and it got scuttled. The city quickly focused on the old jail and police station block as the alternative, and that is why they keep coming back to demolition.

I'm not screaming conspiracy, and my memory is a little fuzzy, but I recall there is a struggle between the city and the police union regarding land and parking in this area. IIRC the union owns property in the area and wanted to build a parking garage, but neighbors complained about the height and it got scuttled. The city quickly focused on the old jail and police station block as the alternative, and that is why they keep coming back to demolition.

Yes.

The Police Union owns almost all the surface lots in this area, and there are plenty -- which makes tearing down a historic building for a handful of parking spaces all the more absurd.

The union wanted to build a garage on a lot they own directly south of the Civic Center but the city denied it.

The union was willing to let the city use their lots but not after this denial.

Lackmeyer had what seems like a decent idea in his chat today - use it as the MAPS4 diversion center. Seems very logical to me.

Looks like the City has decided to put in new windows before they transfer ownership, which is likely an incentive to Marva Ellard & Company, the only group that has ever shown real interest in renovating it.

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Diversion Hub considered this for their permanent home but the interior is in REALLY rough shape. The ceilings are very low especially on the upper floors and there's been water intrusion for years, likely resulting in serious mold issues. Then there is an huge volume of bird and other critter feces in the place.......clean-up will be quite a challenge.

That said, it is a cool looking building from the outside so maybe an accomplished developer can transform it into something unique and usable.

I wonder if you could functionally combine multiple floors? Maybe the answer is to demo the north and south sections and leave the center section, allowing for better use of the land up to the corners of Shartel & Couch/Colcord. In the Center Section, combine levels 2+3 & 4+5, and then build on top of level 6 to make a taller floor there.

The rest of the property would be new build anyway, so as much as I'd love to save the whole building, the property is already going to have substantial new construction and the usage of the area along Shartel is not ideal.

Yes.

The Police Union owns almost all the surface lots in this area, and there are plenty -- which makes tearing down a historic building for a handful of parking spaces all the more absurd.

The union wanted to build a garage on a lot they own directly south of the Civic Center but the city denied it.

The union was willing to let the city use their lots but not after this denial.

The lots are not owned by the police union(FOP), they are owned by the Oklahoma City Police Association.

The lots are not owned by the police union(FOP), they are owned by the Oklahoma City Police Association.

Can you expand on what that means?

Can you expand on what that means?

The OCPA provides opportunities for the welfare, health, morale and well being of OKC Police Dept employees and such other amenities as are desireable for those who share a professional interest in the Oklahoma City Police Department. The Fraternal Order of Police is an organization composed of sworn police officers. The FOP is the bargaining agent which negotiates police officer salary and benefits with the city.