Combining the end of spring to beginning of summer months in one thread.

As you can see by the map below, the rain was extremely random and local to places over the past week. For the week ahead, very quiet weather on tap - highs in the 80s, lows in the 60s. Next chances of rain look low, but maybe something around Friday/Saturday. Enjoy the late spring weather!

http://www.mesonet.org/data/public/mesonet/maps/realtime/rainrfc.96hr.png

Looks like Severe weather comes back into Oklahoma Next Week!!

I dont think a 40% chance of storms is worth two exclamation points. Calm down Bobby.

I dont think a 40% chance of storms is worth two exclamation points. Calm down Bobby.

I've never known anybody who loves destruction as much as he does. I am sure he would change his tune if he was ever in the direct path of a tornado.

Looks like Severe weather comes back into Oklahoma Next Week!!

Bobby, have you ever considered valium? lol

I dont think a 40% chance of storms is worth two exclamation points. Calm down Bobby.


Bobby, have you ever considered valium? lol

These two comments made me literally LOL. Thanks for the Monday pick-me-up!!

I think he got excited prematurely. Nothing really showing up of interest, except for some showers.

I think he got excited prematurely. Nothing really showing up of interest, except for some showers.
And/or he sees what he wants to see even when it's more desperate hope than reality.

I think he got excited prematurely. Nothing really showing up of interest, except for some showers.
Probably not the only thing he does prematurely.

Looks like Severe weather comes back into Oklahoma Next Week!!

Have you ever heard the pounding roar of a tornado passing over your head or nearby? I have twice and don't care to experience it for a third time. If you haven't, it sounds like the drying cycle when your car is in an automated car wash.

Hey anon, anyone see any long-term "heat domes" cranking up as they often do this time of year?

Yes. Right now the GFS is creeping 100s towards C OK by late next week, then a brief cooldown for a couple days before it builds back even stronger as we head toward July. Long-range model forecast has full blown heat-dome characteristics all over it.

There is a low chance of storms developing tonight and trying to skirt southeasterly from NW OK. Really hope this happens as this could be the last legitimate shot @ a drink OK will get for a while.

Hey anon, anyone see any long-term "heat domes" cranking up as they often do this time of year?

Looks like we have our first ozone alert today.... so the heat dome can't be far behind.

It looks like next Wednesday is our best shot at severe weather here in the metro!!

It looks like next Wednesday is our best shot at severe weather here in the metro!!

Well, by-gollie, lets put our helmets on NOW so we can frolic through the hailstorm when it gets here!!!

It looks like next Wednesday is our best shot at severe weather here in the metro!!

I realize its just done for trolling, which necessarily implies I shouldn't respond, but whether manufactured or real, your meteorological bloodlust is eerily and creepily shocking.

I realize its just done for trolling, which necessarily implies I shouldn't respond, but whether manufactured or real, your meteorological bloodlust is eerily and creepily shocking.

I am just trying to get the word out to folks so they can be aware of what may be coming our way so as to making plans for next week etc as a heads up.

I am just trying to get the word out to folks so they can be aware of what may be coming our way so as to making plans for next week etc as a heads up.
Thank you kind sir. We are forever grateful.

I am just trying to get the word out to folks so they can be aware of what may be coming our way so as to making plans for next week etc as a heads up.
You mean like Chicken Little?

Wednesday - Friday next week is beginning to look more promising for rain/storms. Details won't be known until closer to that timeframe.

Wednesday - Friday next week is beginning to look more promising for rain/storms. Details won't be known until closer to that timeframe.

Just like I have been saying it would be all along.

Just like I have been saying it would be all along.

The relative accuracy of the statement was never in dispute. It was the display of met bloodlust that occupies so much of your soul that most of us in this thread find very, well, disturbing. For your sake.

For Those With Storm Anxiety, Just The Threat Of Bad Weather Can Be Agonizing

http://kgou.org/post/those-storm-anxiety-just-threat-bad-weather-can-be-agonizing

For Those With Storm Anxiety, Just The Threat Of Bad Weather Can Be Agonizing

http://kgou.org/post/those-storm-anxiety-just-threat-bad-weather-can-be-agonizing

Interesting read. I can identify a bit with Rick Smith, at least when I was a kid. When I heard even a "Severe Thunderstorm Watch" was out, I didn't want my parents to take me out anywhere. I was absolutely terrified of getting caught in a horrible storm. Drove my dad nuts, but he's just a miserable old fossil now. The change for me as I got older was to learn more about weather in general and storms in particular, how they work, and when and what constitutes situations where action is really necessary. And as much as I picked up then, I've picked up nearly as much again learning from our old friend and former contributor Venture and now Anon here.

Learning when to be concerned is the biggest trick to overcoming seven-day outlooks and overhyped warnings from TV guys of questionable motivations. Good post.

For me, it's pretty easy to know when to be concerned - radar. During severe weather, I watch the radar (mostly on TV with the sound on or off, depends on how obnoxious they're getting), and if the bad colors are getting worse, and it's moving towards me, I pay a bit more attention, otherwise I just go about my business. I got a UPS a while back and put my DVR and TV on it (but not the sound 'cos the amplifier would suck the life out of the battery almost immediately) so I could watch even when the power went out.

Interesting read. I can identify a bit with Rick Smith, at least when I was a kid. When I heard even a "Severe Thunderstorm Watch" was out, I didn't want my parents to take me out anywhere. I was absolutely terrified of getting caught in a horrible storm. Drove my dad nuts, but he's just a miserable old fossil now. The change for me as I got older was to learn more about weather in general and storms in particular, how they work, and when and what constitutes situations where action is really necessary. And as much as I picked up then, I've picked up nearly as much again learning from our old friend and former contributor Venture and now Anon here.

Learning when to be concerned is the biggest trick to overcoming seven-day outlooks and overhyped warnings from TV guys of questionable motivations. Good post.

That's the thing. For me, it's when they start talking tornadoes and/or a high-end severe event seven days out when we don't even know if all the ingredients will line up yet or where the risk area will be.

Ignoring Mike Morgan and instead following people like Aaron Tuttle and this forum, which give some of the more specific, geeky aspects of the setup, has helped ease anxiety. Knowing things like CAPE, shear, dryline location, triple-point location, cap strength, etc is beneficial.

I just don't understand all this fear over storms in the last few years? When I was growing up and most of my grown life we didn't have all this fear over silly storms people had more common sense I guess than to get all worked up into a tizzy about weather, I just don't get it why people need therapists for their fear of weather nowdays..

I just don't understand all this fear over storms in the last few years? When I was growing up and most of my grown life we didn't have all this fear over silly storms people had more common sense I guess than to get all worked up into a tizzy about weather, I just don't get it why people need therapists for their fear of weather nowdays..
May 3, 1999. My birthday. My 6 yr old daughter, my wife, our 3 wk old puppy, and myself, huddled in the closet under the stairwell to our bonus room in our house on SW 128th st. Two blocks south of Westmoore High School. For several hours, Gary England had been telling people that if you are not underground you will die. We had no underground or anyone near us did. Just prior to the tornado reaching our house, I had seen several "hail stones", actually compressed masses of hail stones about the size of a soccer ball hit our deck. Then as the tornado reached our house, with us in the closet, the windows all blew out of the house at once. Then you could hear the house coming apart in large chunks. As I sat there praying for it to end, I was also thinking that this is where we die. I was 48 and had had a good life. Likewise for my wife. But, I'm thinking my daughter is 6 and this is all the life she gets. How unfair to never get to grow up and live a full life. The whole thing lasted about 30 seconds and it was gone. The closet had remained intact and we as well. I opened the door and saw nothing but sky. In those 30 seconds everything we owned was gone. Now, I can deal with storms today, but, I'm very cognizant of when the possibility exist. Wife is ok, but bothered by lighting and thunder more so than before. My daughter, now 25, is scared to death anytime the weather "gurus" start to mention possible storms. I'm sure she has PTSD, as well as many other "kids" in the Moore area. Face death due to weather one time and you will be singing a different tune buddy. I hope you never have to face that and start your life over as a result of Oklahoma weather. I hope this gives you a clue why people are bothered by weather here. I most likely have wasted my time with you regarding this, I hope not.

I just don't understand all this fear over storms in the last few years? When I was growing up and most of my grown life we didn't have all this fear over silly storms people had more common sense I guess than to get all worked up into a tizzy about weather, I just don't get it why people need therapists for their fear of weather nowdays..

Growing up in Altus in the 60s and early 70s, I remember going to the shelter as a child, but I recall the residents growing tired of all the sirens and asked the city leaders to cut down on the warnings unless really necessary. I also remember a lot of joking as to going to the "fraidy hole" and being tough. I believe part of that was because Altus had not been severely hit, certainly nothing in comparison to Moore. To me, Moore was a game changer in the way in which people view tornadoes. I have a friend that lived through some of the Moore tornadoes, and his tales are really very scary and far worse than anything I experienced in all the years of living in Western OK.

I just don't understand all this fear over storms in the last few years? When I was growing up and most of my grown life we didn't have all this fear over silly storms people had more common sense I guess than to get all worked up into a tizzy about weather, I just don't get it why people need therapists for their fear of weather nowdays..

Really? Ask the people in Moore, Midwest City, Del City, El Reno, and Piedmont why they get anxious. Ask any of the emergency medical personnel (like myself)why they get in a tizzy? Are you really that dense? Are you new here? Did you go through any of it? You sir need to just stop trolling...or stop being a douche....or both.

Watched the Edmond tornado head towards me and lift a half mile away earlier this decade. Worked for the fire department back then and went straight from the shelter to the truck to dig through houses looking for injured people. Pulled a lady who had a heart attack during the storm from her basement. Good friends of mine broke down after they responded to assist Moore with a rescue that turned into a recovery at Plaza Towers Elementary. My best friends sister worked at Briarwood Elementary and was injured when it collapsed.

Having stared down a tornado, having responded to dig through the wreckage, and having witnessed the impact on people, it is easy to see why people "overreact".

I actually live in Moore and have lived in Oklahoma my entire life. I have been close to several of the tornadoes that have come through Moore and been impacted by the 99 tornado with damage to my home. and yes I agree it was a bad thing as well as all the others were also, I still get pumped when severe weather season comes it is exciting monitoring and tracking the storms. I am ready and know what to do if one comes my way and I will know about it because I have studied and become even more knowledgeable concerning weather since the 99 tornado, I am constantly reading and looking at the models and getting different views on the weather situation setup for every storm system that comes through. The day of an event I start by briefing myself with the latest data early that morning and I constantly check it every hour throughout the day until things start cranking then I have several computer monitors I will put up radars on and chat as well as monitoring the local stations on the tv in my computer room. If people would calm down and educate themselves about the weather and not run around panicking every time the wind blows or a cloud looks scary things would be a lot better. Just like everything else now days people have just gotten dumber not smarter and it shows I see it everyday.

People have gotten dumber. Maybe someday we will know if it's the parents of dead grade schoolers who are scared of storms, or if it's the people posting how excited they are about deadly storms without regard of how it affects other people.

It is truly one of life's great mysteries.

Edited to add:

To clarify: there is nothing wrong with appreciating the spectacle of nature during a storm. I enjoy watching the storms, there is something strangely beautiful about the lightening and thunder tearing trough the sky. Listening to the rumble of the thunder as you can hear it getting closer to you and passing by. It's amazing how nature can form a tornado and level a city. It's awesome and magnificent and terrifying all at once.

I also love explosions and giant booms. The fireballls are beautiful, feeling that shockwave is pure adrenaline, the destruction awe inspiring. I wouldn't talk about how awesome and exciting explosions are while someone is blowing up stuff in Oklahoma City. I wouldn't call people who suffer from PTSD or who have lost a family member to an IED dumb because they are freaked out by fireworks and explosions, telling them they just need to educate themselves more about the dangers and learn how to protect themselves.

You can appreciate destructive powers, you can be educated on how to minimize the risks, and you can also be completely inconsiderate about the damage and hurt you are causing to others at the same time.

Not to get off on a whole new direction but with all the tornadoes in OK, are basements just not possible with the red OK clay soil? Is it the sandstone? or are home builders still putting one up one everyone to save costs? I have a basement with clay soil in Denver and dont want to be without one again for many reasons.

From what I've heard it's the moisture and droughts that affect the clay due to high water tables.

http://www.npr.org/2013/05/22/186082385/basements-not-an-option-for-many-homes-in-oklahoma

^^^^^^
That article is more accurate than most on this topic, specifically because of the acknowledgement of the frost line and economy of scale issues. The clay and water table bits are more urban legend than reality. There are many different types of soil here, and water tables vary wildly by location. Blaming those things for a lack of basements in OK is a red herring.

The main reason we don't have basements is because of the shallow frost line. A builder doesn't have to dig very deep for stem walls, and a slab just sits on the ground. It's cheap.

Builders in colder places (pretty much anywhere north of here) have to dig below a much deeper frost line, so he cost of the foundation absorbs most of he cost of building a basement. If you can include a basement for not much more than the cost of a house WITHOUT a basement, why wouldn't you do so?

And since so few homes here get basements, the local building trades have mostly forgotten how to do them. AND, since so few contractors here specialize in them, it again adds to the expense of doing one for the few who want them. It's self-perpetuating.

A lot of older homes in OKC have basements. My house has one and I really like having it in case of a tornado. They don't build them very often anymore for whatever reason. My guess is cost. I think storm shelters are a notch above a basement in terms of safety during a direct hit. Even with my basement I would be worried in an F4/F5 but you could ride one out in a storm shelter. The biggest fear with storm shelters is the possibility of them flooding. There were a few stories of people drowning in them back during the 2013 storms.

^^^^^^
That article is more accurate than most on this topic, specifically because of the acknowledgement of the frost line and economy of scale issues. The clay and water table bits are more urban legend than reality. There are many different types of soil here, and water tables vary wildly by location. Blaming those things for a lack of basements in OK is a red herring.

The main reason we don't have basements is because of the shallow frost line. A builder doesn't have to dig very deep for stem walls, and a slab just sits on the ground. It's cheap.

Builders in colder places (pretty much anywhere north of here) have to dig below a much deeper frost line, so he cost of the foundation absorbs most of he cost of building a basement. If you can include a basement for not much more than the cost of a house WITHOUT a basement, why wouldn't you do so?



Well...yes and no...the high water table isn't really a myth per se. It's a contributing factor to the importance of proper waterproofing that becomes an issue. If you don't waterproof properly (as that interview noted), an OK basement *will* leak, and that's often due to high water tables....but building something to be truly water tight (at least conventionally, with sealants and wraps on the out-facing walls, etc) gets expensive. So, while it can be done, it isn't done very often.

Now, technology has evolved considerably even in the last decade or so, and depending upon how a basement is built, it might even be possible to mitigate some of that initial structural expense with interior sealants (in fact, my mom's storm cellar which leaked like a sieve since it was put in back in about 1975 was finally fixed once and for all just a few years ago with an interior concrete sealant product), but I don't see a builder around here willing to be a guinea pig for it :)

I, frankly, would love to have a basement.

^^^^^^
That article is more accurate than most on this topic, specifically because of the acknowledgement of the frost line and economy of scale issues. The clay and water table bits are more urban legend than reality. There are many different types of soil here, and water tables vary wildly by location. Blaming those things for a lack of basements in OK is a red herring.

The main reason we don't have basements is because of the shallow frost line. A builder doesn't have to dig very deep for stem walls, and a slab just sits on the ground. It's cheap.

Builders in colder places (pretty much anywhere north of here) have to dig below a much deeper frost line, so he cost of the foundation absorbs most of he cost of building a basement. If you can include a basement for not much more than the cost of a house WITHOUT a basement, why wouldn't you do so?

And since so few homes here get basements, the local building trades have mostly forgotten how to do them. AND, since so few contractors here specialize in them, it again adds to the expense of doing one for the few who want them. It's self-perpetuating.

This right here is why new construction in Oklahoma doesn't have basements. Same for Texas, Arkansas, Georgia, etc. I know most new homes in Colorado have basements for the frost reason alone but what I'm not sure about is where the "line" is drawn. What about Wichita or Kansas City? A friend once told me St Louis has a lot of basements, and I think I've heard the same about Omaha.

Finished basements are great, I much prefer them to unconditioned attic spaces for storage and especially for a play area if you have kids. They stay nice and cool in the summers too. And yes the obvious benefit if there is a tornado.

This right here is why new construction in Oklahoma doesn't have basements. Same for Texas, Arkansas, Georgia, etc. I know most new homes in Colorado have basements for the frost reason alone but what I'm not sure about is where the "line" is drawn. What about Wichita or Kansas City? A friend once told me St Louis has a lot of basements, and I think I've heard the same about Omaha.

Finished basements are great, I much prefer them to unconditioned attic spaces for storage and especially for a play area if you have kids. They stay nice and cool in the summers too. And yes the obvious benefit if there is a tornado.

In the small town I grew up in near Hutchinson Kansas practically every home had some kind of basement/root cellar and a lot of people spent more time in their basements than they did their ground level.

We knew an elderly couple that had an immaculate ground level home but spent all their time in their basement. They even had an old cast iron, wood burning stove, that she did all her cooking/baking in.

Well...yes and no...the high water table isn't really a myth per se. It's a contributing factor to the importance of proper waterproofing that becomes an issue. If you don't waterproof properly (as that interview noted), an OK basement *will* leak, and that's often due to high water tables....but building something to be truly water tight (at least conventionally, with sealants and wraps on the out-facing walls, etc) gets expensive. So, while it can be done, it isn't done very often.

Now, technology has evolved considerably even in the last decade or so, and depending upon how a basement is built, it might even be possible to mitigate some of that initial structural expense with interior sealants (in fact, my mom's storm cellar which leaked like a sieve since it was put in back in about 1975 was finally fixed once and for all just a few years ago with an interior concrete sealant product), but I don't see a builder around here willing to be a guinea pig for it :)

I, frankly, would love to have a basement.

Without question waterproofing is important. As it is in markets all over the country where most homes DO have basements. Just as in the rest of the country, there is no uniform soil type in Oklahoma - or even the OKC metro - and there is also no uniformly-high water table. In some places it's high; in some places it is low. It depends on the soil type, geology and even the elevation of a particular house or neighborhood. For instance in the downtown area if you build near the new central park your basement floor would be near/at/below the water table, but if you build in SOSA you could probably do a TWO-LEVEL basement that would stay dry. Again, it is mostly a red herring in this discussion.

The real, fundamental reason we don't tend to have basements here (as I mentioned above) is the relatively shallow frost line. Builders don't have to dig deep to build here, so the option of cheaply excavating just a little more to add a basement doesn't exist here like it does in colder climates. Since so few builders do them these days, very few contractors exist who specialize in them, which once again drives the price higher. That is pretty much the beginning and the end of the story.

In the small town I grew up in near Hutchinson Kansas practically every home had some kind of basement/root cellar and a lot of people spent more time in their basements than they did their ground level.

We knew an elderly couple that had an immaculate ground level home but spent all their time in their basement. They even had an old cast iron, wood burning stove, that she did all her cooking/baking in.
Ditto. Grew up in Hutchinson and I'd say 95% of all homes had a basement. Most everyone I knew had finished rooms, game rooms, bedrooms, laundry rooms, etc in the basement. Almost all of my close friends had their bedroom in the basement. In the winter time when we couldn't be outside, during jr high and into high school we would play knee basketball in some friends basement. Was a lot of fun, but, we tore up a lot of knees and our basketball coach was none to happy about it. Basements can basically double the square footage of ones home.

I spent half my childhood in STL. I would say almost all houses had them. I loved it. But I wasn't the homeowner and didn't have to deal with its issues. Ours leaked. We did take shelter there a couple of times during tornadoes, so we were glad to have it. Almost everyone I have known has had a leaking basement. I actually am happy NOT to have one here as I have just seen too many expensive issues with basements.

Storm chances have decreased for C OK for this week. We should see dryline fire severe storms this evening, but this will be a TX PH/W OK border event. Storms will die quickly with sunset.

A better shot for C OK on Wednesday, but that is only if storms can back-build from NE parts of the state toward MO. Chances here are low.

One more weak shot on Thursday afternoon with storms firing down in SW OK. But don't hold your breath.



Looking ahead. We may have a tropical system coming into the southern GOM next week which could have an impact on OK's weather.

Ouch, it looks like we might have our first 100 degree day on Saturday

NWS upped the slight risk to cover most of central OK for tonight.

https://mobile.twitter.com/NWSNorman/status/875084888436813825/photo/1

I, frankly, would love to have a basement.

People shouldn't be dumb enough to build a basement near the bottom of a valley in town. A doctor did that anyway for his new office and ended up with water in the basement.

Ouch, it looks like we might have our first 100 degree day on Saturday

Ha, ha, it's been downgraded to 99.

Ditto. Grew up in Hutchinson and I'd say 95% of all homes had a basement. Most everyone I knew had finished rooms, game rooms, bedrooms, laundry rooms, etc in the basement. Almost all of my close friends had their bedroom in the basement. In the winter time when we couldn't be outside, during jr high and into high school we would play knee basketball in some friends basement. Was a lot of fun, but, we tore up a lot of knees and our basketball coach was none to happy about it. Basements can basically double the square footage of ones home.
My parents had a couple of old rental homes with small basements in Stillwater. They were creepy. My childhood friend had a basement where he kept his electric train. It didn't seem very homey down there, either. I bet homes with basements in Stillwater are well under 50%.

Ha, ha, it's been downgraded to 99.

Weathermen misforcasted the high for today. It is not going to get close to 100.

Mom & dads old house off of NW 36th and May has a basement. Put in around 1955 or 6. Dry as a bone. I thought of making it my bedroom in high school but I would have had to go right by their bedroom to get to it. Would have made it hard to come in at the hours I did. Shameless plug, it will be for sale sometime this fall.

Mom & dads old house off of NW 36th and May has a basement. Put in around 1955 or 6. Dry as a bone. I thought of making it my bedroom in high school but I would have had to go right by their bedroom to get to it. Would have made it hard to come in at the hours I did. Shameless plug, it will be for sale sometime this fall.

Interesting, it must be on one of the hills around there. The house we bought last year at 35th/Venice doesn't have one, and everybody kept telling us about the flooding that happened/happens in that area all the time and for decades past (Deep Fork Creek, I guess, before they made it into a concrete drainage ditch). I'm kind of surprised any houses have them in Venice, but it is kind of hilly, and some of the houses on Venice Blvd *are* kind of multi-level, so they might have some sort of basement too, once you get further south. The house should sell quickly, the ones that have been up for sale go within a month or so recently, we've seen.

Interesting, it must be on one of the hills around there. The house we bought last year at 35th/Venice doesn't have one, and everybody kept telling us about the flooding that happened/happens in that area all the time and for decades past (Deep Fork Creek, I guess, before they made it into a concrete drainage ditch). I'm kind of surprised any houses have them in Venice, but it is kind of hilly, and some of the houses on Venice Blvd *are* kind of multi-level, so they might have some sort of basement too, once you get further south. The house should sell quickly, the ones that have been up for sale go within a month or so recently, we've seen.You're about a block and a half away. M & D's house is on Miller between 36th and 37th. Not in a low spot but definitely not on a hill. And yes, when I was a kid in the 60s Deep Fork flooded a lot. Sometimes pretty badly.

Rain and storm chances increase for Friday afternoon as the tropical system comes up from the SE and is met with a falling boundary out of the NW. The best chances will be in S and SE OK, but C OK could still see development. More potential chances over the weekend, as we may have pop-up style showers and storms lingering behind.

Looking ahead to next week, temperatures will drop off noticeably below average and rain chances will begin creeping up as we head through the week.

Rain and storm chances increase for Friday afternoon as the tropical system comes up from the SE and is met with a falling boundary out of the NW. The best chances will be in S and SE OK, but C OK could still see development. More potential chances over the weekend, as we may have pop-up style showers and storms lingering behind.

Looking ahead to next week, temperatures will drop off noticeably below average and rain chances will begin creeping up as we head through the week.

Awesome news!

Ok. I think I must have gone to high school with a few of you. :)

Guys we need some rain. :(

Yes, we do. Localized parts of C OK haven't had meaningful rain in over a month.

30 day rainfall map:

http://www.mesonet.org/data/public/mesonet/maps/realtime/rainrfc.720hr.png

Quite a bit of Oklahoma, possibly the majority of it, is running behind normal 30 day rain amounts.