Apparently they've had high theft and low sales at that location and decided it wasn't worth renewing their license

I would be shocked if theft was so bad at that particular Target that the response would be to remove all the alcohol and not get the license renewed. You never know I guess, but that seems a stretch to me. That whole area is nice and hardly a high crime area. But…who knows.

Regarding theft, it's darn hard to steal a bottle of wine or a six-pack of beer.

They don't carry small bottles of alcohol in any form. Just seems to be an odd explanation.

Regarding theft, it's darn hard to steal a bottle of wine or a six-pack of beer.

They don't carry small bottles of alcohol in any form. Just seems to be an odd explanation.

But, you make it out of the store, it is corporate policy to not chase down thrives (liability issue).

Apparently they've had high theft and low sales at that location and decided it wasn't worth renewing their license

Wonder if they got caught selling to a minor?

i have been loving all of the stories here lately about how Best Buy has been successful in beating theft, by just having more people to work the floor.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/24/business/best-buy-shoplifting-prevention/index.html

At Pep Boys a few years ago we just smothered them with customer service.

i have been loving all of the stories here lately about how Best Buy has been successful in beating theft, by just having more people to work the floor.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/24/business/best-buy-shoplifting-prevention/index.html

The problem is it makes brick-and-mortar stores even less competitive due to their overhead.

Sam's and Costco have a good model IMO.

I do a lot of Amazon shopping, but for me personally, online will never replace my ability to walk around and see and touch items like clothing, go try them on, and instantly switch sizes or decide against them. There's something to be said still for being able to put some items in your hands and feel the fabric. Lord knows Amazon is full of cheap Chinese fake brands for all kinds of junk these days. The marketplace has really been reduced in quality over the last 5 years, same goes for Walmart's marketplace that sells mostly not walmart crap.

Now if you send me a coupon for something that i already know the size i want, like jeans, I'll get that online if you ship it to me for free. For most men's wear, this is pretty easy. But sometimes the difference between a M and an L or M and a S depending on what you're getting, can be a big difference in if it fits or not. I don't want to order both online and always have to take one back, or take 2 weeks to get the right one just because i didn't want to leave my house to shop.

Maurice's (among others) has a good option that melds the two. You can go in to the store and order items if they don't have your size and have them delivered to the store for free. You can then go try it on and either give it back to them as a return, or walk out with it because you've already paid for it (they charge when it ships). I like that when I'm buying a gift for someone so I'm not paying shipping, but I can still keep the very noticeable label on the box from giving it away at home. I know my wife would immediately know it was something for her lol.

The problem is it makes brick-and-mortar stores even less competitive due to their overhead.

Sam's and Costco have a good model IMO.

Costco did announce they had an increase in "shrink" (stealing) but they said it was due to the new self checkout system that they solved by adding a picture on the Costco membership and 2 people to watch the self-checkout area. The one in Moore always seems to have a couple people watching it and helping customers. Jeez, I love Costco.

Costco did announce they had an increase in "shrink" (stealing) but they said it was due to the new self checkout system that they solved by adding a picture on the Costco membership and 2 people to watch the self-checkout area. The one in Moore always seems to have a couple people watching it and helping customers. Jeez, I love Costco.

They also check your receipt on the way out, as does Sam's.

They also check your receipt on the way out, as does Sam's.

That's not really possible at other stores though. Since Sam's and Costco are clubs, it's in the agreement that they check your receipt when you leave. By being a member, you've agreed to that. At any other store that's not so. Once the transaction has happened, transfer of ownership has occurred even if you're still in the store.

That's not really possible at other stores though. Since Sam's and Costco are clubs, it's in the agreement that they check your receipt when you leave. By being a member, you've agreed to that. At any other store that's not so. Once the transaction has happened, transfer of ownership has occurred even if you're still in the store.

That's not at all the way the law works... Walmart and Best Buy have done it and I'm sure others have done it as well. Technically, you could refuse and they can't force you, but they can retain you if they suspect you are shoplifting.

On top of that, most states -- including Oklahoma -- have a Shopkeeper's Privilege law:


there are 3 basic components to the shopkeeper’s privilege: (1) a reasonable belief that a person has stolen or is attempting to steal; (2) detention for a reasonable time; and (3) detention in a reasonable manner.

https://www.lawyers.com/legal-info/consumer-protection/protections-for-consumer-purchases/receipt-checks-at-stores-are-they-worth-the-hassle.html

That's not at all the way the law works... Walmart and Best Buy have done it and I'm sure others have done it as well. Technically, you could refuse and they can't force you, but they can retain you if they suspect you are shoplifting.

On top of that, most states -- including Oklahoma -- have a Shopkeeper's Privilege law:



https://www.lawyers.com/legal-info/consumer-protection/protections-for-consumer-purchases/receipt-checks-at-stores-are-they-worth-the-hassle.html

almost all big box stores have express policy's against ANY physical act against any customer or suspected shoplifter .. the rightly are scared of getting sued .. because as stated in your link they have to have a reasonable suspicion of shoplifting for shopkeepers privilege to apply and refusing to show a receipt is not reasonable suspicion

almost all big box stores have express policy's against ANY physical act against any customer or suspected shoplifter .. the rightly are scared of getting sued .. because as stated in your link they have to have a reasonable suspicion of shoplifting for shopkeepers privilege to apply and refusing to show a receipt is not reasonable suspicion

The point is, lots of stores ask you to show your receipt.

That in itself is not a gray legal area.

Serious question, could we see a store like Target move to a membership model like Costco or Sams?

Costco makes nearly all their profit on memberships alone, and the membership mentality builds brand loyalty.

Would it reduce theft, while at the same time give Target a guaranteed revenue stream? The membership model is taking over everywhere else from streaming services to car washes.

Serious question, could we see a store like Target move to a membership model like Costco or Sams?

Costco makes nearly all their profit on memberships alone, and the membership mentality builds brand loyalty.

Would it reduce theft, while at the same time give Target a guaranteed revenue stream? The membership model is taking over everywhere else from streaming services to car washes.

No. If they went that route, it would be through a new store venture (like Sam's Club to Wal-Mart, for example). Target is a department store, not a bulk grocery store. I don't see them changing industries and losing a lot of their goodwill.

The point is, lots of stores ask you to show your receipt.

That in itself is not a gray legal area.

Nor is it a gray legal area to decline the request and keep walking. Imo a lot of this problem in Wal Mart or Target is the self check out. This "feature" needs to be evaluated weighing employee savings against shrinkage.

Nor is it a gray legal area to decline the request and keep walking. Imo a lot of this problem in Wal Mart or Target is the self check out. This "feature" needs to be evaluated weighing employee savings against shrinkage.

People stole before self checkouts. A lot of the self checkouts "scream" at you if you don't set your item just right in the bag or forget to scan something.

I think theft is up currently because of all of the various videos online showing people waking into stores, grabbing what they want, and walking out without repercussions. They know that store employees can't/are trained not to be confrontational. Until that changes, through private security or similar, theft percentages I think will remain or grow from the current levels.

Target and Walmart probably like the drive up option as a method to reduce theft, but the people using that feature probably weren't the ones stealing in the first place.

People stole before self checkouts. A lot of the self checkouts "scream" at you if you don't set your item just right in the bag or forget to scan something.

I think theft is up currently because of all of the various videos online showing people waking into stores, grabbing what they want, and walking out without repercussions. They know that store employees can't/are trained not to be confrontational. Until that changes, through private security or similar, theft percentages I think will remain or grow from the current levels.

Target and Walmart probably like the drive up option as a method to reduce theft, but the people using that feature probably weren't the ones stealing in the first place.

Self check does have loss- countless stories about people ringing up half of their items (Walmart neighborhood markets don't even need you to place in bagging at all), but the majority of the theft is like you said- people just walking out. I have a friend in LP at the highest volume Target in the metro. The amount of grab and walk/runs in over the top. They are trained not to leave the store in a chase because the danger increases as you cross the store line. Every place that I managed was prevention over apprehension, as our life was not worth the merchandise. I can say in all honesty that I broke that rule numerous times because unfortunately you do take the theft personal.

Self check does have loss- countless stories about people ringing up half of their items (Walmart neighborhood markets don't even need you to place in bagging at all), but the majority of the theft is like you said- people just walking out. I have a friend in LP at the highest volume Target in the metro. The amount of grab and walk/runs in over the top. They are trained not to leave the store in a chase because the danger increases as you cross the store line. Every place that I managed was prevention over apprehension, as our life was not worth the merchandise. I can say in all honesty that I broke that rule numerous times because unfortunately you do take the theft personal.

Any idea on how much shrinkage is driven by employees?

The problem is it makes brick-and-mortar stores even less competitive due to their overhead.

Sam's and Costco have a good model IMO.

A lot of that may be due to the lower item count and bulkiness of the inventory. I'm sure Walmart knows better than anyone that its a lot easier to prevent shrinkage at a Sam's club than at a Walmart. They deploy receipt checkers at Supercenters, but they seem to be limited to looking for bigger items.

Any idea on how much shrinkage is driven by employees?

It is usually higher than you think. Averages for the 3 main shrink (loss) are: internal (employee) 35-45%, external (orc’s, etc) 35-40%, paperwork 20-30%. Most theft is a crime of opportunity, given that if an individual thinks they can get away with it they will try. Those percents are: 80% will steal given the opportunity, 10% will always steal, and 10% will never steal. The more theft, the higher stuff costs to offset the loss. Retail is seeing huge thefts compared to years past. This could be part of the inflation around pricing both ways - steal because it costs more- cost more because stealing is up.

The past year has brought an avalanche of data that have major retailers reconsidering self-checkout. Walmart has been testing fewer self-checkouts and hiring more cashiers. A lot more. The twist is that the data says customers will use regular cashier based checkout as long the queue is never more than two deep. We can expect cashiers in numbers far beyond what we saw before the self-checkout era. The huge upside for big retail is that it would all cost dramatically less than maintaining the current hybrid. Theft at self-checkout, angry customers/workers dealing with technical glitches, it’s all brought on a new way of looking at the checkout process. If this is the first you have heard of this, get ready. Here’s some good reading if you’re interested.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/10/self-checkout-kiosks-grocery-retail-stores/675676/ (paywall)
https://archive.ph/mUFXy (no paywall)

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/13/business/self-checkout-stores-shopping/index.html

It is usually higher than you think. Averages for the 3 main shrink (loss) are: internal (employee) 35-45%, external (orc’s, etc) 35-40%, paperwork 20-30%. Most theft is a crime of opportunity, given that if an individual thinks they can get away with it they will try. Those percents are: 80% will steal given the opportunity, 10% will always steal, and 10% will never steal. The more theft, the higher stuff costs to offset the loss. Retail is seeing huge thefts compared to years past. This could be part of the inflation around pricing both ways - steal because it costs more- cost more because stealing is up.
Stealing isn’t caused by inflation. That’s just political thinking. In fact, stealing increases costs and prices and you can argue that increased stealing increases inflation. People are honest or not, and unfortunately more people keep thinking there are many justifications for being dishonest. Stealing because of opportunity is just low moral character. Character is not what you do in the light, but what you do when no one is looking. Start calling them what they are….THIEVES. You seem to think 90% of people are thieves…. I don’t buy it. I just think thieves and dishonest people justify their dishonesty by claiming everyone does it so it is ok.

80% of WHO will steal, given the opportunity? The general public?! I refuse to believe that only 20% of the people in this country (or any country, frankly) are generally honest. There’s no way that’s not bad data.

I think those numbers have been conventional wisdom in business for decades. I recall hearing it in the 1970s when I worked at the IGA. It does not imply every employee is an organized criminal. It means everybody will "accidentally" cut open a box of cookies and share the "spoiled" product with the other employes around break time; load their plate with extra fries at lunch break; take a quart of oil for their car etc... The point of that observation is to help businesspeople to get their operation more closely aligned with the 10% who never steal and away from the 10% who always steal.

Funny story from the background of the movie "Casino" is that the FBI secretly recorded a mobster management council meeting in Kansas City where Carl Thomas, who was overseeing their Las Vegas skimming operation from his position as Slots-A-Fun operator, explained the entire enterprise in depth. One item he mentioned was "Leakage", which was employee embezzlement. Less than 10%, Thomas was adamant that it wasn't worth the risk of trying to eliminate it, but several mobsters were incensed that someone would steal part of the money they stole.

Define "generally honest". Just check out threads about self-checks on this site and you will probably find at least 1 person who says "Well that's their fault" if a self check out machine failed in the customers favor. They think they have the moral high ground. The same can be said with a struggling parent who found an opportunity to steal. Doesn't happen widely across the population, but small increased opportunities add up.

I never said 90% of people are thieves, but you can't judge a book by its cover, so you don't know who the thief is or is not. Thief of product/money/time- could literally be anyone. I used to train my cashiers on proper money handling techniques like actual counting back from what the customer pair (example- total $80.20, paid with 100, cashier counts back .80cents makes 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 5 makes 90, 10 makes 100. How many times have you been given the wrong amount in your favor and you did not return it- that is theft, its not your "tip". I would love to believe more people are honest- man I want that for sure.
Political thinking it is not- why would you even go directly to that. Another example- say your person with questionable moral character has 35.00 dollars to spend on a pair of shoes for their child at back-to-school and the pair costs $40 bucks. They can not buy the shoe or look for a cheaper shoe or they can decided to steal if given the opportunity. They had full intention to purchase but decided against it and stole. Nothing political about it. It literally happens everyday. Stealing is not a red/blue thinking thing. If you want to go political- I am a registered democrat but wish shoplifters were prosecuted. Currently that is a huge argument in some larger west coast based cities that vote the same as I- crime is rampant and it is because of lax policy. I was in this field for 27 years- I do know what I am talking about and not like what Floyd says to Red "I do believe you are talking out of your a$$".

The past year has brought an avalanche of data that have major retailers reconsidering self-checkout. Walmart has been testing fewer self-checkouts and hiring more cashiers. A lot more. The twist is that the data says customers will use regular cashier based checkout as long the queue is never more than two deep. We can expect cashiers in numbers far beyond what we saw before the self-checkout era. The huge upside for big retail is that it would all cost dramatically less than maintaining the current hybrid. Theft at self-checkout, angry customers/workers dealing with technical glitches, it’s all brought on a new way of looking at the checkout process. If this is the first you have heard of this, get ready. Here’s some good reading if you’re interested.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/10/self-checkout-kiosks-grocery-retail-stores/675676/ (paywall)
https://archive.ph/mUFXy (no paywall)

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/13/business/self-checkout-stores-shopping/index.html

Honestly, I would like to do away with checkouts all together. I'd probably shop at a Zero-contact store, like the Amazon brand brick-and-mortar stores, if we had any around here.

On a separate note, the new pay-by-palm thing at Whole Foods kinda creeps me out....

The past year has brought an avalanche of data that have major retailers reconsidering self-checkout. Walmart has been testing fewer self-checkouts and hiring more cashiers. A lot more. The twist is that the data says customers will use regular cashier based checkout as long the queue is never more than two deep. We can expect cashiers in numbers far beyond what we saw before the self-checkout era. The huge upside for big retail is that it would all cost dramatically less than maintaining the current hybrid. Theft at self-checkout, angry customers/workers dealing with technical glitches, it’s all brought on a new way of looking at the checkout process. If this is the first you have heard of this, get ready. Here’s some good reading if you’re interested.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/10/self-checkout-kiosks-grocery-retail-stores/675676/ (paywall)
https://archive.ph/mUFXy (no paywall)

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/13/business/self-checkout-stores-shopping/index.html

Interesting how the two Stillwater super Walmarts do check out differently. The W. 6th one is 100% self-checkout, while the N. Perkins Rd. one has both ways available. When there, I'll go to a cashier if not busy to show support for their job. But if cashiers are busy, I'll use self-checkout. Not often but sometimes may have to wait for one to become available. I think I like the arrangement at the Perkins Rd. Walmart a little better.

Honestly, I would like to do away with checkouts all together. I'd probably shop at a Zero-contact store, like the Amazon brand brick-and-mortar stores, if we had any around here.

On a separate note, the new pay-by-palm thing at Whole Foods kinda creeps me out....

i dont mind paying with my phone but the minute you make me pay with my palm or with a micro chip i am done

i dont mind paying with my phone but the minute you make me pay with my palm or with a micro chip i am done

Paying with your phone is literally paying with a microchip

I did read the Retail group that said 95 billion (45 billion theft alone) in sales was from theft ended up being false and overstated. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/organized-retail-crime-trade-group-half-of-all-missing-merchandise/

Shrinkage is not just shoplifting, it's also employee theft (anyone who has ever worked in retail knows this is a huge problem) and damaged goods.

Shoplifting is a cost of doing business and a calculation. Most stores just budget it in rather than hire a security guard or more staff.


Side story about employee theft... I worked at Orbach's when I was in college along with about 10-15 other college guys. One day we were all summoned for a mandatory meeting and interrogated about theft. I was shocked but they never let on as to the nature of the problem so I was confused as to why the owners were so upset. Some time later, I found out a couple of the guys had been taking entire racks of suits out through the loading dock. I never thought about how easy it would be to do something like that.

And working at a mall, there was an entire network of people that would steal from their employer then trade the merchandise for money or for merch from another store. Now with eBay and Craigslist, it's super easy to fence anything stolen.

Shrinkage is not just shoplifting, it's also employee theft (anyone who has ever worked in retail knows this is a huge problem) and damaged goods.

Shoplifting is a cost of doing business and a calculation. Most stores just budget it in rather than hire a security guard or more staff.


Side story about employee theft... I worked at Orbach's when I was in college along with about 10-15 other college guys. One day we were all summoned for a mandatory meeting and interrogated about theft. I was shocked but they never let on as to the nature of the problem so I was confused as to why the owners were so upset. Some time later, I found out a couple of the guys had been taking entire racks of suits out through the loading dock. I never thought about how easy it would be to do something like that.

And working at a mall, there was an entire network of people that would steal from their employer then trade the merchandise for money or for merch from another store. Now with eBay and Craigslist, it's super easy to fence anything stolen.

I worked at Orbach's too!! When I was 17 or 18. I did layaway and gift wrapping.

Shrinkage is not just shoplifting, it's also employee theft (anyone who has ever worked in retail knows this is a huge problem) and damaged goods.

Shoplifting is a cost of doing business and a calculation. Most stores just budget it in rather than hire a security guard or more staff.


Side story about employee theft... I worked at Orbach's when I was in college along with about 10-15 other college guys. One day we were all summoned for a mandatory meeting and interrogated about theft. I was shocked but they never let on as to the nature of the problem so I was confused as to why the owners were so upset. Some time later, I found out a couple of the guys had been taking entire racks of suits out through the loading dock. I never thought about how easy it would be to do something like that.

And working at a mall, there was an entire network of people that would steal from their employer then trade the merchandise for money or for merch from another store. Now with eBay and Craigslist, it's super easy to fence anything stolen.

Years ago, I owned a company that worked with our clients' merchandise and I had what I thought was a secure storage area with check-in and out of items. One day I got wind of an employee taking something valuable home from the storage. I put out a general announcement that we had something missing and that if anyone knew where it was and returned it I would not call in insurance and the police. The next morning I had piles of returned merchandise. I had no idea of the number of employees that had guilty consciences and had be taking merch from a "secure" lock-up. We had always done background checks, etc., so I thought I had a really honest, good group of employees. Opened my eyes.

And yes, we changed our security systems and merchandise handling procedures. LOL.

Relatively low-paid staff + millions in merchandise + eBay/Craigslist is a problem with no clear answer, so that's another thing you just have to budget for.

I still have no idea what the Orbach's employee thieves did with racks of suits. Back then, you usually had to work through at least semi-organized crime to shift merchandise like that and would only get pennies on the dollar. Now, you see all this new-in-box merch on eBay and just know most of it was stolen from somewhere.

Go on to eBay and look at how many walkie talkies and handheld barcode scanners there are, I used to work in a large retail operation and these would go missing every week to the point where we didn't have enough for people to do their job and would have to send some home. It was a constant cycle of re-ordering. Time theft is also a huge issue with some companies, it's amazing what some people will do to avoid actually doing their job.

Go on to eBay and look at how many walkie talkies and handheld barcode scanners there are, I used to work in a large retail operation and these would go missing every week to the point where we didn't have enough for people to do their job and would have to send some home. It was a constant cycle of re-ordering. Time theft is also a huge issue with some companies, it's amazing what some people will do to avoid actually doing their job.

Sensor tag and spiderwrap removers as well.

Time theft is also a huge issue with some companies, it's amazing what some people will do to avoid actually doing their job.

I often see employees at Sam's Club hiding out somewhere in the store (not the breakroom or outside) jacking around on their phone.

I had a Target drive up order a few months ago where when I got home there was one of their iPhone scanner things in one of my bags. I did give it back.

The Memorial and Penn Target has a bunch of storage containers in their parking lot. Are they about to do another mini remodel or add something?

The Memorial and Penn Target has a bunch of storage containers in their parking lot. Are they about to do another mini remodel or add something?

This is the only building permit I could find for that store and it's from July:


Interior remodel of Ulta at Target sales floor pad. Work to include new finishes and electrical scope.

This is the only building permit I could find for that store and it's from July:

Maybe that's it. Inside they had a space cleared out in the clothing section. May just be setting up some new displays.

Maybe that's it. Inside they had a space cleared out in the clothing section. May just be setting up some new displays.

I'd bet that's what it is, they don't have the ULTA beauty section yet.

They began work on the ULTA Beauty section today at the Quail Springs store. A large amount of parking is fenced off with storage. There isn't any signage indicating what it is but just a ceiling-to-floor covering for that whole section. Nice to see it moving along!

Edmond Target has numerous storage trailers on the west side of the parking lot. Any word on what's happening?

Only thing cleared out in the store was the Deli at the front, which appeared to be related to a power outage or similar.

Edmond Target has numerous storage trailers on the west side of the parking lot. Any word on what's happening?

Only thing cleared out in the store was the Deli at the front, which appeared to be related to a power outage or similar.

Its probably to add Ulta. Same thing they did with Penn and Norman stores.

Its probably to add Ulta. Same thing they did with Penn and Norman stores.

And the Ulta part is always completely picked over and busy in Norman. Big market for makeup I guess.

Edmond Target has numerous storage trailers on the west side of the parking lot. Any word on what's happening?

Only thing cleared out in the store was the Deli at the front, which appeared to be related to a power outage or similar.
The deli being cleared out might be to due with the recall of the Boars Head

And the Ulta part is always completely picked over and busy in Norman. Big market for makeup I guess.

Interesting because there is an Ulta right across the street in the Bryant Square shopping center, but I guess it's convenient.

Didn't realize it was such a large scale renovation for just makeup.

The deli being cleared out might be to due with the recall of the Boars Head

Oklahoma is not one of the 13 states affected by the recall

Oklahoma is not one of the 13 states affected by the recall

Even the new one that's 7 million lbs of meat (everything that one factory produced)?

Even the new one that's 7 million lbs of meat (everything that one factory produced)?

While the product recalls increased, the targeted area of 13 states did not.
Sprouts has a full deli of Boars Head

Interesting because there is an Ulta right across the street in the Bryant Square shopping center, but I guess it's convenient.

Didn't realize it was such a large scale renovation for just makeup.

My thoughts too... Ulta is right around the corner from Target at Penn and Memorial also.

My thoughts too... Ulta is right around the corner from Target at Penn and Memorial also.

I'd guess convenience or people using the 5% target card.

I'm sure the agreement mandates that these Ulta Expresses are in most if not all the Super Targets. The small hit they take in the standalone stores would be a small price to pay to have direct access to Target's customer base.