I guess with the new i-44 walmart, is it safe to say this pipe dream of cleaning up the i-240 corridor is over?

Based on the work done so far, the work currently being done, and the work still planned, I'm going to say it isn't over.

If you are referring to the Envision 240 project, I would say it is dead. Website is gone.

I strongly suspect that the WalMart at I-44 and SW 104th and the retail development that is starting around it, along with the Lariat Landing work just a bit north and west along the new Portland, is going to make any substantive changes along I-240 a difficult proposition. The prior effort seemed centered around "urbanizing" it, which I think was a non-starter as it's not an urban area.

The biggest change along I-240 that needs to happen is for those nasty apartments and hotels along and east of May right up to that church on the south service road to go away, but so long as the property owners there are happy with the income being generated as-is they'll not have much incentive to change them. The frustrating thing is those hotels seem to be magnets for all manner of unsavory "stuff" that manages to hit the news every now and then.

As far as new retail, the Odom development on the north side of I-240 east of Penn seems very successful just as it is, and the long-term construction at the I-240/I-35 interchange likely precludes some work in that area as well. So I think it may just be a matter of realizing that superimposing a plan on that broad an area perhaps isn't the best approach, because not the *entire* area needs the *same* kinds of help.

If you compare the I-240 development to Memorial or the Moore area, then it isn't successful. Unfortunately, there seems to be zero interest in revitalizing any part of the area south of the river outside of the Capitol Hill area.

I realize I'm asking this on a board where people have actually said "something needs to be done with Crossroads Mall" (something already has), but has work actually stopped in this area? I admit, I've not been in a couple months, but the last time I was there there was active construction, which also has been discussed on this board (www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=42683). Sure, yet another check cashing/payday loan place might not be the best addition, and sure, we might prefer private property to be spruced up, but the city has very limited influence there. Were sidewalks not added as promised (I have to admit, not only have I not been there in a couple months I also don't walk the area, so I've less than no idea). It seems the last time the death knell was sounded (www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=28955&page=12) it mostly boiled down to street maintenance and mowing, which apparently the city asked the South OKC Chamber for help on that, does anyone know what their reply was? It's only been two and a half months since Pioneer Pies closed, but I imagine something is going to be done there sooner rather than later.

If you compare the I-240 development to Memorial or the Moore area, then it isn't successful. Unfortunately, there seems to be zero interest in revitalizing any part of the area south of the river outside of the Capitol Hill area.

I guess I don't understand what you're expecting. You can't force the apartment owner to bulldoze their properties because the city doesn't think they look nice enough (even if they really don't); the Penn development north of I-240 and east of Penn just expanded and new shops are going in, and as for the rest, you have a mixture of car dealerships, general retail, a big (if admittedly ugly) Office Depot, and then some big-box stores like Lowe's and Wal Mart toward I-35. What kind of revitalization are you looking for?

And most of those apartments are owned by large property groups out of state, not a local businessperson. Therefore, they have zero interest in polishing up the place when it is genterating revenue with the current condition. Therefore, you aren't going to get any help from them. I think the guy that was heading that improvement gave it much more than the college try, but he was just getting nowhere, especially with all the apartments along the route.

Honestly I'd be happy with the city just mowing and doing even a little big of landscaping, and repave the rest of the service roads that I had thought they were supposed to. Other than that I don't think it needs much. I agree with the sentiment of getting rid of all the nasty apartments, but I doubt that's going to happen. Sometimes you have the manage your expectations.

Honestly I'd be happy with the city just mowing and doing even a little big of landscaping, and repave the rest of the service roads that I had thought they were supposed to. Other than that I don't think it needs much. I agree with the sentiment of getting rid of all the nasty apartments, but I doubt that's going to happen. Sometimes you have the manage your expectations.

Bingo. Lots of simple smarts there :)

There's the Oklahoma way!

There's the Oklahoma way!

You say that like it's a bad thing. Not everything can be brand new, super modern, and ultra urban. Sometimes a little sprucing up is all an area needs.

According to his LinkedIn profile, Vince Howie - the project director for Envision 240 - left in August 2015. The latest information I can find about Envision 240 dates to March 2015, when they were gearing up for a petition drive to create a Business Improvement District, but nothing since. Envision 240 appears to be dead, sadly - but just for giggles I e-mailed the South OKC Chamber of Commerce to see if they had any additional info.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Not everything can be brand new, super modern, and ultra urban. Sometimes a little sprucing up is all an area needs.You're right, not everything can be brand new and I would be happy to see sprucing up as well. But this whole corridor needs a 100 million dollar or more upgrade to be what it truly deserves.

You're right, not everything can be brand new and I would be happy to see sprucing up as well. But this whole corridor needs a 100 million dollar or more upgrade to be what it truly deserves.

Which would include what, in your view, if I may ask?

Got an answer back: Envision 240 isn't dead, but they're playing the long game. They've gotten a little under 45% of the businesses to buy-in to the BID so far, but the numerous out-of-state property owners and management companies that inhabit the area are making the process more challenging. Once they get above 50%, then they can take it to the City Council to be voted on. They still hope to establish the BID if possible, but have no definite timeline due to the challenges they're facing. I asked about the website but have not yet gotten a response to that question; I'll update you all when I do.

Which would include what, in your view, if I may ask?
Complete reconstruction and widening of I-240. Widened and reconstructed service roads. Reconstruction and improvements to nearby streets. Incentives to nearby businesses to improve their aesthetics. A new park or two in various locations along the freeway.

Complete reconstruction and widening of I-240. Widened and reconstructed service roads. Reconstruction and improvements to nearby streets. Incentives to nearby businesses to improve their aesthetics. A new park or two in various locations along the freeway.

I-240 honestly does not need further widening - at least not within the scope of the proposed Envision 240 BID, as it's 6 lanes wide from I-44 to I-35. The biggest bottleneck right now is the I-35/I-240 interchange, which is (slowly) being replaced and widened. That said, I agree with you that the service roads absolutely need an overhaul - preferably all concrete - though widening would probably not be feasible (nor really necessary) as there wouldn't be enough ROW for it. The highway itself could use a good deal of further beautification, with more trees here and there, as well as cleaning, painting, and pedestrian access upgrades under each overpass. I'd absolutely agree with incentives and other ways to put pressure on businesses within the BID to improve and maintain their appearances. At minimum, if we could just upgrade the seas of parking all over the place to current code, with more landscaping, that would be wonderful and an instant image upgrade. As for the park, the only real place that I could see one go in along this corridor would be in the open land on the NE corner of I-240 and Santa Fe, but with the ramp reconfiguration as part of the I-35/I-240 interchange project, that's going to become a prime corner and I think it'd be highly unlikely for the City to put a park there.

I'm not a heavy I-240 user, primarily because I actively avoid it. I find it to be one of the most dangerous stretches of highway in the metro. The speed limits (both the posted and effective ones) are too high for the on-/off-ramp situation. The removal of some of the Shields ramps and the rebuild of the I-35 interchange should help a lot. I would probably also delete the ramps at Walker, as Santa Fe/Walker/Western are too close together to allow safe merges. I don't know that I would widen the entire "corridor", but I would advocate repainting it to allow for full inside shoulders (I don't think it has these now), 2 thru lanes in both directions, and an outside exit only lane between Santa Fe and Western, then Western and Penn, etc. Not sure that would totally fit in the current ROW or fix all the problems but it seemed reasonable just sitting here spitballing. I think it would force cars to travel more slowly, like 55 or 60 instead of 70 in the inside lanes and 65-slamonbreaks-65again in the outside lanes, reduce unsafe lane changes, and make merging safer since traffic would be traveling more slowly. A widened super-highway in a land-locked retail and dense residential corridor doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I-240 honestly does not need further widening - at least not within the scope of the proposed Envision 240 BID, as it's 6 lanes wide from I-44 to I-35. The biggest bottleneck right now is the I-35/I-240 interchange, which is (slowly) being replaced and widened. That said, I agree with you that the service roads absolutely need an overhaul - preferably all concrete - though widening would probably not be feasible (nor really necessary) as there wouldn't be enough ROW for it. The highway itself could use a good deal of further beautification, with more trees here and there, as well as cleaning, painting, and pedestrian access upgrades under each overpass. I'd absolutely agree with incentives and other ways to put pressure on businesses within the BID to improve and maintain their appearances. At minimum, if we could just upgrade the seas of parking all over the place to current code, with more landscaping, that would be wonderful and an instant image upgrade. As for the park, the only real place that I could see one go in along this corridor would be in the open land on the NE corner of I-240 and Santa Fe, but with the ramp reconfiguration as part of the I-35/I-240 interchange project, that's going to become a prime corner and I think it'd be highly unlikely for the City to put a park there.
There is definitely enough ROW for service road expansion but as for I-240 they need to plan ahead before it gets to the point where it does need widening which will be within the next decade.

There is definitely enough ROW for service road expansion but as for I-240 they need to plan ahead before it gets to the point where it does need widening which will be within the next decade.

After doing some research, it looks like 3-lane-per-direction facilities like I-240 are generally understood to be good for an AADT of up to approximately 100,000 VPD. According to ODOT (http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/Maps/aadt/2015/UrbanMap.pdf), I-240 carried approximately 108,000 VPD in 2015. I'm not sure what the actual design capacity of the highway is, but after learning this I can certainly see your point of view. An additional lane per direction would allow the highway to carry up to 130,000 VPD. That said, there are other, more pressing capacity issues in the Metro; namely, I-44 between I-40 and the OK-74/39th Expy/I-44 junction (167,600 VPD maximum on a 130,000 VPD facility), I-44 between the I-240/I-44 junction and I-40 (132,600 VPD maximum on a 100,000 VPD facility), and I-35 between Indian Hills Rd and I-40 (141,500 VPD maximum on a 100,000 VPD facility). Of course, all of this also assumes that my understanding of this is correct. In short, I personally believe that, especially with the state's funding situation, a widening of I-240 isn't (and shouldn't be) a priority... at least for now. Beautification and repair of this highway, on the other hand, most certainly!

Yeah and personally I would widen the service roads before the freeway.

Another thing I forgot to add is sidewalks and sheltered bus stops.

I'd agree that I-44 probably needs another lane first. I'd take it all the way down to 240 though. It's bumper to bumper down to the 44/240 split.

I really wish the city would at least re-pave the frontage roads. I think it's crazy that they have been as bad as they are for so long with one a few patches put in.

There are a couple of places that we really need to add some right turn lanes or something. Frontage westbound to May southbound badly needs a righthand turn lane. It causes traffic to back up 1/4 mile on to the freeway every day. Fixing the light timing would help that flow too.

In terms of beautification, im not sure what you can really do. Landscaping isn't really an option. You dont want trees/etc in the area between the interstate and the frontage because of their risk as a crash hazard if someone veers off. Maybe near the bridges or something though? At the same time, where's that money coming from and how are you going to maintain it? Throw trees in there and the grass underneath will die and the mowers will have a hell of a time getting it done right. Maybe more something like Crepe Myrtles? But you (should) trim those. Im not sure what a good solution is there.

If the road and gone below grade, you could do things like the Creek Turnpike through Jenks. The extra space reserved for future lanes gave the opportunity for greenspace as well as trees. But there's no frontage there either....just butts up to homes and a wall. But it is pretty. :P