Have you ever tried getting to the game from OKC? It's miserable. May be a hard sell.

It's really not that bad. The most recent times I've driven into Norman a few hours before the game I think there was a 5-10 minute delay. What route are you taking?

Hopefully Norman will finally get a Walk-Ons that has been talked about since 2019.

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=45300&highlight=walk+ons

It's really not that bad. The most recent times I've driven into Norman a few hours before the game I think there was a 5-10 minute delay. What route are you taking?

I agree, I've never had a problem. I like to go a bit early and soak up the ambiance.

Leaving can be harder but I typically stay after the final whistle and have a drink or meal and let traffic clear out a bit.

It's really not that bad. The most recent times I've driven into Norman a few hours before the game I think there was a 5-10 minute delay. What route are you taking?

I usually go down Sooner. But I'm thinking that Lindsey being shut down so people can tailgate there will impact other routes.

Amtrak leaves OKC at 8:25am and returns at 9:27pm. It's walkable along the Canal. Make it happen. ;)

I used to do this all the time for 11 and 2:30 kickoffs. It was awesome (and no one ever noticed that we smuggled roadies onboard at 8 AM lol). It’s not perfect for everyone but if you live neardowntown and want to really take in game day…it’s hard to beat.

I take the ten mile flats to and from Norman on Gamedays. We get there about an hour or 2 before games to wonder around. We park on Cruce just east of Berry and walk. Traffic is no big deal since we stay off the highways and aren’t in the immediate stadium area.

I usually go down Sooner. But I'm thinking that Lindsey being shut down so people can tailgate there will impact other routes.

that section of lindsey was already closed on game days ..

I used to do this all the time for 11 and 2:30 kickoffs. It was awesome (and no one ever noticed that we smuggled roadies onboard at 8 AM lol). It’s not perfect for everyone but if you live neardowntown and want to really take in game day…it’s hard to beat.

Now just imagine doing this with commuter rail: 30 min headways with stops in DT Edmond, north OKC, midtown OKC, Santa Fe Depot, Moore and downtown Norman. OU would be the "end of the line" and a short walk down Brooks to the stadium

Now just imagine doing this with commuter rail: 30 min headways with stops in DT Edmond, north OKC, midtown OKC, Santa Fe Depot, Moore and downtown Norman. OU would be the "end of the line" and a short walk down Brooks to the stadium

I've taken CalTrans from San Jose to a SF Giants game.

It was awesome. Almost everyone aboard was going to the game and the last stop was right across the street from the stadium. Returning the other way was just as easy and fun. I've done something similar for Yankees, Mets and Cubs games.

There may be no better use of regional mass transit than moving large groups of fans in and out in an efficient and stress-free way.

I used to do this all the time for 11 and 2:30 kickoffs. It was awesome (and no one ever noticed that we smuggled roadies onboard at 8 AM lol). It’s not perfect for everyone but if you live neardowntown and want to really take in game day…it’s hard to beat.

22 min on the way down arrives at 847am

38 min on the way back arrives at 927pm (i wonder why the additional 16 min?)

Now just imagine doing this with commuter rail: 30 min headways with stops in DT Edmond, north OKC, midtown OKC, Santa Fe Depot, Moore and downtown Norman. OU would be the "end of the line" and a short walk down Brooks to the stadium

I’ve imagined this many times…why can’t we have nice things??? Lol

22 min on the way down arrives at 847am

38 min on the way back arrives at 927pm (i wonder why the additional 16 min?)

I think it has to do with freight traffic but can’t remember. Maybe the train is just tired after a long day.

I've taken CalTrans from San Jose to a SF Giants game.

It was awesome. Almost everyone aboard was going to the game and the last stop was right across the street from the stadium. Returning the other way was just as easy and fun. I've done something similar for Yankees, Mets and Cubs games.

There may be no better use of regional mass transit than moving large groups of fans in and out in an efficient and stress-free way.

did this from downtown Chicago to a cubs game as well and it was a blast. Also highly recommend doing the big game train (heartland flyer OU/TX train) at least once. They bring in a couple of dining cars with skylights, 98% of the train is going to the game and it drops you off at union station in Dallas. Takes a little longer, especially on the way back but is much less stressful than driving in I-35 game traffic. A really fun time if you aren’t on a strict schedule.

did this from downtown Chicago to a cubs game as well and it was a blast. Also highly recommend doing the big game train (heartland flyer OU/TX train) at least once. They bring in a couple of dining cars with skylights, 98% of the train is going to the game and it drops you off at union station in Dallas. Takes a little longer, especially on the way back but is much less stressful than driving in I-35 game traffic. A really fun time if you aren’t on a strict schedule.

I remember taking the DART to the cotton bowl as a kid and getting cursed at by Texas fans. It was quite an experience.

Would it ever be possible for OKC and Norman to run additional lines throughout the day? How cool would it be if you could catch a train from Norman to Bricktown and vice versa on the hour?

Would it ever be possible for OKC and Norman to run additional lines throughout the day? How cool would it be if you could catch a train from Norman to Bricktown and vice versa on the hour?

Not on the current rail lines. Over 35 freight trains run through Norman every day.

Oh man - after reading this thread it is clear that our great fortune to build a new house just west of campus with a huge bonus room could become a huge windfall. I took a look at AirBnB rates for football weekends in Athens for similarly sized and located homes, and the rate for two nights was $5000-11000. I've generally been opposed to using our home for AirBnB, but having the ability to rake in that much three or four weekends in football season is pretty compelling. The location is also walking distance to CC which would only enhance the visitor experience overall. None of this was even the slightest consideration when we took down our old house and built new.

I've heard from a couple of different sources that this big Campus Corner project is either completely stalled or dead.

To get it done, the University would have to come in as a partner and then use eminent domain for some holdouts. As you can understand, President Harroz doesn't want to put resources into this and then use eminent domain on what will be a very controversial project. A lot of alums would be upset about a complete scrape of the area, and that's political capital the school does not want to spend, as there are a ton of big things in the works.

Was also told OU is fully behind the new basketball arena at University North Park. Seems like that project is going forward and is quite likely to happen.

I've heard from a couple of different sources that this big Campus Corner project is either completely stalled or dead.

To get it done, the University would have to come in as a partner and then use eminent domain for some holdouts. As you can understand, President Harroz doesn't want to put resources into this and then use eminent domain on what will be a very controversial project. A lot of alums would be upset about a complete scrape of the area, and that's political capital the school does not want to spend, as there are a ton of big things in the works.

Was also told OU is fully behind the new basketball arena at University North Park. Seems like that project is going forward and is quite likely to happen.

Makes sense. His job isn't to upset alums and the surrounding area. This will get ripped to shreds on here, but I understand why he isn't doing it, if the university would have to upset those relationships.

Plus, as you said, that capital needs to be used for better things, which are in the works.

Is there any sort of an ETA yet on when the new arena would be completed? Feel free to move this to the UNP thread if needed.

Is there any sort of an ETA yet on when the new arena would be completed? Feel free to move this to the UNP thread if needed.

They want to get going and have a formal announcement soon to help both basketball coaches in recruiting.

Still lots of hoops to jump through but this is definitely heating up and I'm pretty darn sure it's going to happen. Lots of work being done behind the scenes.

I was not in favor of a total demo/redo, but Campus Corner needs serious help. I wonder how many people actually go to other places and see how much better things can be?

Whatever became of the project that was going to replace the gas station?

I was not in favor of a total demo/redo, but Campus Corner needs serious help. I wonder how many people actually go to other places and see how much better things can be?

Whatever became of the project that was going to replace the gas station?

what sad is that the holdout owners are problem the problem owners that have helped to bring down Campus Corner to what it is now

It could be better, but Campus Corner is very near 100% occupancy, and that wasn't the case for a long time.

Lots of those bars/clubs are packed with students when school is in session.


If this bigger project is doomed, I'm not sure how to make it much more than it is now or what that would look like.

OU owns a significant chunk of developable land in west CC - currently parking lots along University Blvd. That and the First Pres. Church property are about 1/4 of Campus Corner. I think you start with redeveloping those pieces into mixed-use (housing with ground floor retail) and work your way north. Leave the "historic" portion of CC intact along Boyd, Buchanan and Asp and rebuild the edges especially along University Blvd. and north toward Symmes.

I was not in favor of a total demo/redo, but Campus Corner needs serious help. I wonder how many people actually go to other places and see how much better things can be?

Whatever became of the project that was going to replace the gas station?

Would love to see this project revived as creative/co-working office space over ground floor retail on Boyd

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/normantranscript.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/1/78/178f14ea-7458-5d39-b441-2cab868d8137/5955d20e159bb.image.jpg

Since it is stalled/dead, where exactly was this supposed to go?

Since it is stalled/dead, where exactly was this supposed to go?

The plan was to demolish everything in Campus Corner and go up several floors with retail/restaurants at ground level and residential/hotel above.

Would have also included structured parking.

Makes sense. His job isn't to upset alums and the surrounding area. This will get ripped to shreds on here, but I understand why he isn't doing it, if the university would have to upset those relationships.

Plus, as you said, that capital needs to be used for better things, which are in the works.

Well said. No sense in tearing everything down when there’s a good chance nothing comes of it. I hated the Stage Center as an empty piece of concrete but seeing what has become of that lot in the years since it was torn down, doing that with a larger area like Campus Corner that is near capacity in one of the densest parts of Oklahoma all for the development to stall over a necessary component being unmotivated would be beyond maddening, even more so given the history of that around Central Oklahoma.

Well said. No sense in tearing everything down when there’s a good chance nothing comes of it. I hated the Stage Center as an empty piece of concrete but seeing what has become of that lot in the years since it was torn down, doing that with a larger area like Campus Corner that is near capacity in one of the densest parts of Oklahoma all for the development to stall over a necessary component being unmotivated would be beyond maddening, even more so given the history of that around Central Oklahoma.

Agree completely. 100%

The plan was to demolish everything in Campus Corner and go up several floors with retail/restaurants at ground level and residential/hotel above.

Would have also included structured parking.

Right, but would this include everything bordering University, Buchanan, and Asp from Boyd to Apache? or was it just to go up to white? Are Greek house and that tobacco place on campus corner? Would First Presbyterian have been demolished?

Right, but would this include everything bordering University, Buchanan, and Asp from Boyd to Apache? or was it just to go up to white? Are Greek house and that tobacco place on campus corner? Would First Presbyterian have been demolished?

I mapped everything out here:

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=47713&p=1238309#post1238309

It could be better, but Campus Corner is very near 100% occupancy, and that wasn't the case for a long time.

Lots of those bars/clubs are packed with students when school is in session.


If this bigger project is doomed, I'm not sure how to make it much more than it is now or what that would look like.

I just don’t understand why it has/had to be a full scrape and start over or nothing. It seems as though large enough contiguous swaths of it could be purchased to build some fairly transformative developments.

I’m glad the university isn’t getting involved. I’m not sure what reasoning they would use to justify it but that would seem to be a big time abuse of eminent domain.

^

I'm sure the developers know they can't get all the property they need without eminent domain, thus they reached out to OU in order to make them a partner with that power.


In any event, it doesn't look like that is going to happen and I'm not sure if OU even seriously considered that arrangement.

^

I'm sure the developers know they can't get all the property they need without eminent domain, thus they reached out to OU in order to make them a partner with that power.


In any event, it doesn't look like that is going to happen and I'm not sure if OU even seriously considered that arrangement.

Sounds like they dodged a bullet. New infill development on parking lots and areas to the north would be welcomed though

I've heard from a couple of different sources that this big Campus Corner project is either completely stalled or dead.

To get it done, the University would have to come in as a partner and then use eminent domain for some holdouts. As you can understand, President Harroz doesn't want to put resources into this and then use eminent domain on what will be a very controversial project. A lot of alums would be upset about a complete scrape of the area, and that's political capital the school does not want to spend, as there are a ton of big things in the works.

Was also told OU is fully behind the new basketball arena at University North Park. Seems like that project is going forward and is quite likely to happen.

As stated earlier in this thread, the Oklahoma Supreme Court has ruled that Oklahoma Government can not use eminent domain for economic development. Board of County Commissioners of Muskogee County v. Lowery(2006). The Oklahoma constitution forbids it. The landowners, represented by the OFB Legal Foundation, appealed their case to the Oklahoma Supreme Court, and in 2006 the Court expressly held the Oklahoma Constitution provided more protection for private landowners than the U.S. Constitution, and that economic development, without any other rationale, does not create a legitimate public purpose or public use. The Court noted that “[t]o permit the inclusion of economic development alone in the category of ‘public use’ or ‘public purpose’ would blur the line between ‘public’ and ‘private’ so as to render our constitutional limitations on the power of eminent domain a nullity. If property ownership in Oklahoma is to remain what the framers of our Constitution intended it to be this we must not do.” Therefore, Oklahoma landowners can successfully challenge a proposed condemnation by showing that the proposed use is not allowable under Oklahoma law.
https://www.mcafeetaft.com/eminent-domain-part-1-limits-on-the-power-of-eminent-domain/

I mapped everything out here:

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=47713&p=1238309#post1238309

Everything in those pics would have been demolished?

Glad this isn’t happening. Develop the huge lot between the Presidents house and Noun before even considering razing an area. That is a huge lot that could become something special if there really is energy to pursue dense, mixed use developments.

I agree. I like some of the architecture on the C. Corner. It should be quaint enough that small business owners can affordvto lease out space. The proposal kind of seemed like "gentrification" of a nice place that didn't need to be done.

I'm just glad they won't be tearing down Skinny Slims. Love that place. (Sarcasm)

I'm just glad they won't be tearing down Skinny Slims. Love that place. (Sarcasm)

lol. the amount of skinny slims jokes my friend group has made ever since we first heard about this redevelopment, has been priceless

As I've posted before here. At first I was devastated by the idea of Campus Corner being razed. Then the more discussion the more I accepted the idea. Even got completely behind it. Then yesterday when I heard it wasn't going to happen I have to admit something deep inside gave a sigh of relief and cheered.

I still think closing the streets that run through it to make it more walk-able then build a garage seems like a no brainier.

I'd hate to lose spaces like the old Harrods.

As I've posted before here. At first I was devastated by the idea of Campus Corner being razed. Then the more discussion the more I accepted the idea. Even got completely behind it. Then yesterday when I heard it wasn't going to happen I have to admit something deep inside gave a sigh of relief and cheered.

You and me both. Surprised I didn't see you sitting next to me on the roller coaster LOL.

Glad this isn’t happening. Develop the huge lot between the Presidents house and Noun before even considering razing an area. That is a huge lot that could become something special if there really is energy to pursue dense, mixed use developments.

That's been my argument (though I did warm up to the scrape and bake proposal). There's a bunch of parking lot space in and around CC and after that's used up, there are plenty of underutilized buildings with little to no historic/aesthetic value that can be razed for a higher and better use. I just think a ton can be done with what is there (both building stock and empty space) and think that approach could lead to a better final product than scraping all of it and starting over.

That's been my argument (though I did warm up to the scrape and bake proposal). There's a bunch of parking lot space in and around CC and after that's used up, there are plenty of underutilized buildings with little to no historic/aesthetic value that can be razed for a higher and better use. I just think a ton can be done with what is there (both building stock and empty space) and think that approach could lead to a better final product than scraping all of it and starting over.

Completely agree. OU, through both its existing property around campus corner and maybe through the strategic purchase of other CC property, needs to raise the bar in the area by developing higher quality retail (restaurants, hotels, stores, merchandise, etc.) . Put the pressure on the current CC landlords to up their game. Right now they aren't motivated to do so and, as a result, you have some less than desirable tenants that have crept in. The university can be the catalyst to make this an outstanding area while preserving the historic character of it. The amount of private development student housing that has occurred east and north of CC makes it ripe for bigger development. Student housing, I might add, that is leased primarily by the wealthier students. They have the money to spend.

Completely agree. OU, through both its existing property around campus corner and maybe through the strategic purchase of other CC property, needs to raise the bar in the area by developing higher quality retail (restaurants, hotels, stores, merchandise, etc.) . Put the pressure on the current CC landlords to up their game. Right now they aren't motivated to do so and, as a result, you have some less than desirable tenants that have crept in. The university can be the catalyst to make this an outstanding area while preserving the historic character of it. The amount of private development student housing that has occurred east and north of CC makes it ripe for bigger development. Student housing, I might add, that is leased primarily by the wealthier students. They have the money to spend.

OU is constitionally barred from using eminent domain for economic development purposes.

Obviously.

I’m not talking about using eminent domain. Just buying property as anyone else would. The University has slowly, selectively and strategically bought up tons of properties around the perimeter of campus (in particular to the east) that, to my knowledge, didn’t involve exercising eminent domain. Just strategic acquisitions. For example, they own a random property just down the street from my house on the southeast corner of Flood and Lindsey that had nothing to do with eminent domain.

Obviously.

I’m not talking about using eminent domain. Just buying property as anyone else would. The University has slowly, selectively and strategically bought up tons of properties around the perimeter of campus (in particular to the east) that, to my knowledge, didn’t involve exercising eminent domain. Just strategic acquisitions. For example, they own a random property just down the street from my house on the southeast corner of Flood and Lindsey that had nothing to do with eminent domain.

the university also regularly uses Eminent domain to acquire property around its perimeter

the university also regularly uses Eminent domain to acquire property around its perimeter

Do they regularly do that though? It seems like by and large the sales are voluntary. There are several tracts of land near a house I used to rent in college (that my landlord sold to the university) and it seems like they would've been taken by eminent domain by now if they were that trigger happy with it.

I don’t buy that OU “regularly uses Eminent domain”. In my experience, it’s been voluntary sales like PhiAlpha said. Boulder needs to back up his claim.

Would love to see this project revived as creative/co-working office space over ground floor retail on Boyd

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/normantranscript.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/1/78/178f14ea-7458-5d39-b441-2cab868d8137/5955d20e159bb.image.jpg
This was the project that was supposed to replace the gas station. I was really excited about this because it included structured parking. Oh well.

I don’t buy that OU “regularly uses Eminent domain”. In my experience, it’s been voluntary sales like PhiAlpha said. Boulder needs to back up his claim.

agreed. i think there is an assumption that anytime the university makes a land purchase, that it was eminent domain, and i think that is probably the very rare exception, not the standard

They absolutely do not routinely or normally utilize eminent domain for property acquisitions. They have and can, but not routinely. They buy and sell property all the time in various locations for various reasons. Just watch the Regents agenda and you'll see these transactions. They aren't eminent domain driven. I know several folks that have voluntary sold property east of Jenkins. OU puts feelers out and slowly, methodically builds a portfolio properties for whatever the purpose. They also routinely divest of properties for whatever reason, usually for a profit. They have an in-house real estate group as well as a contract agency.

agreed. i think there is an assumption that anytime the university makes a land purchase, that it was eminent domain, and i think that is probably the very rare exception, not the standard

ok OU regularly threatens ED to acquire property .. either way .. it is a tool that they make sure it known when they want property

ok OU regularly threatens ED to acquire property .. either way .. it is a tool that they make sure it known when they want property

Someone should make sure those property owners are aware that there are pills/treatments for that so that they can make an informed decision.

Someone should make sure those property owners are aware that there are pills/treatments for that so that they can make an informed decision.

lol

ok OU regularly threatens ED to acquire property .. either way .. it is a tool that they make sure it known when they want property

and of course, you have proof of this claim, correct? that OU is threatening land owners that if they don't sell, OU will use Eminent domain? because that is a very serious charge of extortion you are leveraging, one that might be criminal in nature.

I don’t buy that OU “regularly uses Eminent domain”. In my experience, it’s been voluntary sales like PhiAlpha said. Boulder needs to back up his claim.

This +1

Again, if there's really a push to improve Campus Corner then develop the following lots:

- Large parking lot between the Presidents house and Noun
- Parking lot at White & Asp in the heart of Campus Corner
- Re-develop the properties with Campus Corner Market and the strip mall to the East. Really poor use of those properties
- Parking lot north of Hideaway

Redeveloping these properties could transform Campus Corner if done well.

Razing the walkable buildings never made sense with these other lots. If it must happen, any loss of surface parking could easily be replaced by a parking garage being included in the development between the Presidents house and Noun.