I'm caught up in the city effort to extort money from the citizens, I mean crack down on people with gravel driveways. Anyone have a recommendation for a licensed paving contractor that does residential driveways?

How about room additions? Since it looks like I might be pouring concrete, I might just go ahead and enlarge my garage while I'm at it.

Not to minimize your problem, but at one time, there was a home in Nichols Hills that had a gravel driveway. Granted, it's not OKC, but it's a beautiful home that was completely rebuilt on Wilshire very near the West boundary of the town. I haven't been through that area recently, so it might have changed.
C. T.

You're rubbing salt in my wounds!

Have you considered asphalt? It would be cheaper than concrete (I am assuming you have a flat driveway). If it is an angled driveway I would stick with concrete.

That's a shame. We have some $400K+ homes in my Edmond neighborhood with gravel driveways. They keep them groomed and remove any gravel that floods into the streets. Hasn't been an issue. I prefer a solid surface driveway myself, but their's look fine since they are maintained. Reminds me, I need to patch, fill and top coat my two driveways this Spring.

Yep. OKC is stupid. There is no allowance for new gravel drives on homes even though storm water runoff is an issue and permeable driveways, like gravel, are an answer to part of that. This one is 60 years old, well kept, but does not meet the tight and ridiculous spec for grandfathering and continuing to use it legally. (Must be pre Oct 1 '88, perpendicular to property lines, less than 12' width and rectangular in shape. Mine is most of those, but not all.)

The lot is just under an acre. My driveway is about 100' long with two approaches. The approaches are 20' long. They have to be 6" thick concrete. The rest could be asphalt. From what I understand asphalt might be 20% or so cheaper but probably will need top coating, repairs or maintenance in 12-15 years. It looks like maybe $15K pave it all from what I read on the internet but I could shorten it up, put in a small drive for less. I don't really want to do that.

I'm going to retire at some point and would like more room for projects I currently work on at my work place. The large two car garage sits back from the house where the front of the garage is even with the back of the house. If I'm going to pave all the way from the garage another 80 feet or so to the street, I might make part of that concrete building slab instead of driveway and build more garage on it. I don't really want to do either but may end up forced into something. Third option is to pour driveway up to where I might add on to the garage, and leave the room in front of the garage to add on to it in the future. I'd like to talk to a room addition contractor to get an idea of cost for the big project, all drives and an add on.


Have you considered asphalt? It would be cheaper than concrete (I am assuming you have a flat driveway). If it is an angled driveway I would stick with concrete.

It's pretty flat but the lot has a slight slope to it, the drive is the low point on this part of the acre, and excess water that does not absorb into the yards or drive runs over the top of it and out into the street. It's going to take some expertise to not cause drainage and washout problems when I pave it.

Jose Lopez with Today's Landscape. 405-919-4424. He did our driveway and gate and did a great job.

Thanks!

Jose Lopez with Today's Landscape. 405-919-4424. He did our driveway and gate and did a great job.

yours looks great.. did he do the others down your way as well? I need mine done and was curious what he charged as it seems he did several down there.

What's the worst the city can do for not complying with this stupid law? I know lots of people out by me with gravel drives. They just charge a $200 fine and then move on down the road? Someone in my neighborhood built a shop to the side of their house instead of behind it. Really dumb cause it looks fine, but it was already built they can't make him tear it down. He paid a $500 fine, gave the city the finger and went on his business.

What's the worst the city can do for not complying with this stupid law? I know lots of people out by me with gravel drives. They just charge a $200 fine and then move on down the road? Someone in my neighborhood built a shop to the side of their house instead of behind it. Really dumb cause it looks fine, but it was already built they can't make him tear it down. He paid a $500 fine, gave the city the finger and went on his business.

I don't know what the worst thing they can do...but they can write a $100 ticket for each car parked in the drive every time they drive by. In my case, that's frequently two, sometime three or more. I talked to a man at the court house who was written multiple times for multiple cars. So far, I have one ticket. Waiting to see when/if the next one comes before I do anything drastic. We have thought about paving and adding on over the years though and this could be a resale issue, whenever that time comes. It's just money money money.

About every third house in my immediate area has similar issue, including on each side of me. So far, I'm the only one I've found who got ticketed in my hood. But there was a news story a month ago when this happened where they blanketed the NW side of town. Spotty blanket I guess.

How the hell can they ticket you for parking in your driveway? Where are you supposed to park.

How the hell can they ticket you for parking in your driveway? Where are you supposed to park.
They ticket each vehicle for being parked on an unpaved surface. the same as if you parked in your yard or popped the tire of your vehicle up on the curb.

Yep. They can ticket my housekeeper, visitors, delivery people, plumber and whoever else parks in my driveway. It's a total sham and money grab. Not much different than ticketing every person who walks into a building that has a code issue that changed over time, like not handicap accessible, or a million other things.

They ticket each vehicle for being parked on an unpaved surface. the same as if you parked in your yard or popped the tire of your vehicle up on the curb.

lol wtf. Is the city hurting for money? I mean I have a gravel pad in my back yard that has trailers parked on it. I did it so it was easy to maintain and looked better than being parked in the grass, even though that's what pretty much everyone does. I've never heard the term unpaved, I've always heard unimproved, although I may be thinking of covenants from HOA.

I mean if they are going to be that petty, can I sue them for the gravel roads out near my house that they maintain? I mean come on OKC.

The city owned street my illegal driveway connects to is a real piece of work.

The city owned street my illegal driveway connects to is a real piece of work.

Seems like that's the case with most city streets. I have some friends that live a mile from me live down a city owned gravel road and have gravel driveways off that road, I'd sure like to see the city tell them they can't have a gravel driveway.

Like others have said a nice maintained gravel driveway is no problem IMO. The city thinking otherwise is completely asinine.

Have you looked into chip seal? When completed and done right, it's just like asphalt.

Another cool product I saw demonstrated at World of Concrete a couple years ago is permeable concrete. It's poured in forms and troweled out just like regular concrete, but is made up of millions of small pieces of aggregate bonded together with Portland cement and other ingredients. It sets up hard the same as regular concrete, but allows drainage right through it. Very cool product. Looks cool too when completed.

Have you looked into chip seal? When completed and done right, it's just like asphalt.

Another cool product I saw demonstrated at World of Concrete a couple years ago is permeable concrete. It's poured in forms and troweled out just like regular concrete, but is made up of millions of small pieces of aggregate bonded together with Portland cement and other ingredients. It sets up hard the same as regular concrete, but allows drainage right through it. Very cool product. Looks cool too when completed.

I had to google it cause I was curious, it does look cool, like really nice pea gravel that doesn't have to be maintained. Thanks for sharing.

And, like regular crete, you can tint it just about any color you want.

And, like regular crete, you can tint it just about any color you want.

Interesting. I had not heard of it before.

Yep. They can ticket my housekeeper, visitors, delivery people, plumber and whoever else parks in my driveway. It's a total sham and money grab. Not much different than ticketing every person who walks into a building that has a code issue that changed over time, like not handicap accessible, or a million other things.

Could you build a gate that can't be seen through or over from the street instead and would that "fix" the problem? Not sure how much effort the city would go to in order to ticket cars if they had to climb over a gate to do it, and also not sure if the gate would have to conform to crazy specs from the city or cost as much or more as the repaving. Might also be a hassle to have to use a gate each time someone goes in or out.

I would have to fence most of the place. It would be less expensive to pave the driveway.

I would have to fence most of the place. It would be less expensive to pave the driveway.

Ah, yeah, for some reason I thought there was already a fence up.

So for the fun of it this morning I decided to count the number of gravel driveways on my way to work. According to google I live 6.3 miles using the route I drive from work to my house. Within that mileage, only counting driveways that touch the roads I'm on I counted 28 gravel driveways all withing OKC. This is only one direction from my house, I imagine if I went any other direction I'd get similar results. Just fascinating how many there are.

Criminals!

Criminals!

I'll be real interested to see if I see any of them start getting paved. I have my suspicion that there are so many in my area the city is ignoring it, and for all intents and purposes you are getting hosed.

They hit the NW side of town recently, where I live. The story doesn't really talk about people parking on established gravel driveways, mostly showing examples of people parking on grass. However, the city does not differentiate. If any one tire is not on hard paved surface they can and do ticket.

http://www.news9.com/story/34414837/okc-cracking-down-on-residents-parking-cars-on-grass

I bet I could find 30 cars on gravel within a few blocks of my house in about 15 minutes.

If they are ticketing vehicles on unpaved surfaces, why not just pave the actual part where the vehicles are parked and leave the rest graveled?

If they are ticketing vehicles on unpaved surfaces, why not just pave the actual part where the vehicles are parked and leave the rest graveled?

I've thought about that but knowing how these things usually go, I doubt it would fly. The code cited gives the spec for what is required for driveways on R1 less than 1 acre, which mine is. It says the approach will be paved, the drive will paved, gives depth width and other specs. It requires a licensed driveway contractor to pave it. Which is going to mean a code inspector to review and approve both the permit and the final installation. My bet is they will not approve a partial fix as meeting code, which binds the licensee, and also binds the homeowner. I can't do it myself. I can't hire someone to do it for me who isn't going to play by the city's rules, or it's a non-compliant driveway.
I have seen gravel driveways with a pad near the house for parking though.

I've thought about that but knowing how these things usually go, I doubt it would fly. The code cited gives the spec for what is required for driveways on R1 less than 1 acre, which mine is. It says the approach will be paved, the drive will paved, gives depth width and other specs. It requires a licensed driveway contractor to pave it. Which is going to mean a code inspector to review and approve both the permit and the final installation. My bet is they will not approve a partial fix as meeting code, which binds the licensee, and also binds the homeowner. I can't do it myself. I can't hire someone to do it for me who isn't going to play by the city's rules, or it's a non-compliant driveway.
I have seen gravel driveways with a pad near the house for parking though.

I was told by my contractor that there wasn't a permit needed to lay concrete at your house. I had a 1200 sq foot shop added to my place last year and they added on to my driveway and poured the slab well before they applied for a permit for the building. I mean maybe he wasn't completely truthful, but after the city inspected it they never once mentioned anything about the concrete even though I know it was over done for what any city code could be.

If that's true, I was thinking the same thing pour a pad in front of a garage or wherever people park and leave the rest. I'm wondering now if that's how people are getting by with it more out by me because most all IIRC have concrete pads that their vehicles sat on which means city can't ticket your car at least.

I was told by my contractor that there wasn't a permit needed to lay concrete at your house. I had a 1200 sq foot shop added to my place last year and they added on to my driveway and poured the slab well before they applied for a permit for the building. I mean maybe he wasn't completely truthful, but after the city inspected it they never once mentioned anything about the concrete even though I know it was over done for what any city code could be.

If that's true, I was thinking the same thing pour a pad in front of a garage or wherever people park and leave the rest. I'm wondering now if that's how people are getting by with it more out by me because most all IIRC have concrete pads that their vehicles sat on which means city can't ticket your car at least.

Believe me, I've thought about what if a pad appeared on my property where we typically park.

However...you need a permit to do just about anything at your house. Here's a couple of snips of the city code:

4200.1. Building Permits.

A.

Establishment. The City of Oklahoma City has previously established the process for obtaining a building permit.

B.

Required. Any owner or authorized agent who intends to construct, enlarge, alter, repair, move, demolish, or change the use or occupancy of a building or structure, or to erect, install, enlarge, alter, repair, remove, convert or replace any electrical, gas, mechanical or plumbing system, the installation of which is regulated by the Building Code, or to cause any such work to be done, shall first make application to the building official and obtain the required permit.

C.

Applicability. No building or site improvement shall be initiated, for any purpose, until a building permit has been issued stating that the building and/or site complies with all the building and health codes and ordinances, and with the provisions of this chapter. A building permit shall not be issued until the following permits, certificates and approvals are obtained:

(1)

Site plan approval.

(2)

Special exception use approval, if applicable.

(3)

Special permit use approval, if applicable.

(4)

Planned unit development approval, if applicable.

(5)

Certificate of Appropriateness, if applicable.

(6)

Certificate of Approval, if applicable.

(7)

Approval of a variance, if applicable.

(8)

Approval of a zoning map amendment, if applicable.



§ 13-402. - Paving contractor license.

Any person engaging in paving construction work must be licensed as a paving contractor by the City and must obtain all permits required by this Code and State and Federal regulations and laws. "Paving construction work" shall mean the contracting to make or provide, construct, remove, replace or maintain an impervious surface or other surface for the conveyance or transporting of persons or vehicles upon or across any public property less and except for persons solely in the business of providing sidewalks, driveway aprons and driveways as private work on private property. Upon payment of the license fee, a paving contractor license shall be issued by the Supervisor of Licenses.

4200.3. Site Plan Review for Building Permits.

A.

Establishment. The City of Oklahoma City has previously established the site plan review process for building permits.

B.

Applicability. Site plan review shall be required for all permitted uses as a condition of obtaining a building permit.

C.

Parties Entitled to Request Site Plan Review. Applications for site plan review may be filed by the owner of, or any person having a right of ownership in, any property in the City.

D.

Applications. Applications for site plan review shall be filed in accordance with the requirements of this section. The Public Works Director may waive a specific requirement of this section upon a finding that the waiver of any such requirement will not adversely affect conformance with the intent of the requirement.

(1)

Required Information.

(a)

All site plans shall be submitted to the Director in three clearly legible blue or black line copies.

(b)

All site plans shall contain the following information:

1.

North arrow.

2.

The plans must be drawn to a standardized scale.

3.

The legal description of the property written on the plan or attached, and identity of the location of the tract, with regard to corner of the section, block and street corners.

4.

All property lines accurately drawn to scale with the dimensions of each line numerically illustrated in feet.

5.

All adjacent street and alley rights-of-way, showing the centerline of each, the width and length of each, and any street names. Property lines shall be included as a part of these rights-of-way by showing dimensions from the centerline.

6.

The exact location, dimension and type of all easements that abut and/or are situated on the property shall be shown.

7.

The location of driveway approaches, width and length, of every driveway. Driveway work must be done by a licensed and bonded contractor, and a separate driveway permit must be issued.

And they told me when I was at city hall asking about driveways "You will need to hire a licensed contractor to put in a driveway."

I seem to remember you might have several acres. I have not read the code for lots that size but think they might be different than lots less than an acre like mine. One of my neighbors has over an acre and has 8 or 10 cars parked around on gravel pads in his front yard. I stopped by to see if he had been ticketed when I was ticketed. He said code enforcement has been by his place several times to verify his cars are parked on gravel, no tickets, no warnings for doing so. Permits for improvements would still apply, but maybe gravel is okay on larger lots, I don't know. Mine is just under an acre.

I seem to remember you might have several acres. I have not read the code for lots that size but think they might be different than lots less than an acre like mine. One of my neighbors has over an acre and has 8 or 10 cars parked around on gravel pads in his front yard. I stopped by to see if he had been ticketed when I was ticketed. He said code enforcement has been by his place several times to verify his cars are parked on gravel, no tickets, no warnings for doing so. Permits for improvements would still apply, but maybe gravel is okay on larger lots, I don't know. Mine is just under an acre.

Yes I'm over an acre. I know there was no permit pulled for my shop and the addition on to my driveway. Within my building permit there is a section about slab, and that passed city inspection, but nothing specifically for the part where I added on to my driveway. Which I figure if it were a problem they'd say something, because I have a small shed in my back yard that I had been using to keep lawnmower in and they put a warning when they were doing my shop inspection that it needed a permit. I told them I wasn't doing anything on that, it was existing when I bought the property numerous years ago and wasn't my problem they could go find the previous owners if they wanted to concern themselves with it 5 years later.

My neighbor directly across from me added a 15x20 pad on to the end of his driveway during the construction progress on my shop and he also told me he didn't get a permit. City has been out enough in my neighborhood during that time between my shop and the 3 new houses going in, so I'd have thought that if he was doing something that needed a permit they'd have let him know. To my knowledge nothing ever came of it.