I just checked and Embark doesn't appear to have stopped sharing transit data with Google; on my Android phone I can get transit directions from Children's to the 'Peake no problem. Even includes delay info. Maybe it's an Apple thing?

Yes, it DOES appear to be an Apple thing in OKC, but Apple does show transit info from other cities.

When we consider the non-student average age group who attends OU football games or other OU sports/ events I pretty sure that not very many of them (who often have health issues) are going to want to walk from the stadium all the way to the rail road tracks east of the Duck pond and stand around in the heat, cold and wind….Almost all of these people can make arrangements to park much closer and would continue to do so if the system is slow/time wasting and keeps people out in the elements to long. There are many commuting students and employees who would feel the same…

I don’t want a commuter rail / transit system that targets poor people for its ridership. It needs to be as user friendly as possible for everyone from the very start even if it cost significantly more.

My friends and I take the Heartland flyer from downtown OKC to Norman now for games that kickoff between 11AM and 3:00PM. Depending on a lot of variables, we'll take it back to OKC for the same games.We have to walk from downtown Norman to the stadium and the walk isn't that bad considering that traffic is awful for hours before and after games and it isn't much different than walking to your car unless you pay enough to have a spot right by the stadium.It's perpetually delayed on the ride back into OKC but we never care. It's a lot better than waiting in traffic, taking a $80 uber, or driving after drinking all day/night. Even with one scheduled departure time to and from Norman and a mile away from the stadium, I would take the Train every time. It's comfortable, cheap, and takes you close enough to the stadium to make it worth it. There are a decent amount of people that take the train now in this limited capacity, I'm sure it would kill it with a closer station and higher frequency.

I think you have kind of a scewed prospective of the demographics of non-student game attendees. Elderly people with health issues make up a very small percentage of the crowd and are still getting to and from the stadium currently with some walking involved whether that be a shuttle from Lloyd Noble or elsewhere or a parking spot in the stadium. If those people are hell bent on parking and driving, then the train won't be a good service for them no matter how long they have to wait or walk. There is a ton of waiting involved no matter how you get to and from Norman, so I don't really think a short walk to a train waiting area where you have to wait 30 minutes in a covered area would be that big of deal, especially when it bypasses the hour plus wait in traffic just to get back to downtown OKC.

For older people… which is what the majority of OU’s football crowd is these days that is too far especially if they are sitting on the west sides of the stadium…There are thousands of parking spots either for sale or that require a donation that are either closer or would not require as much wasted time in arriving back home. Many are located near restrooms, food and shelter with heat and air.

The OU event station needs to be located on a short spur line in a building located north of OU’s Track and Field facility in an area that is now a large parking lot. This would save a lot of time and effort by anyone who would ever use the system, even for everyday use.

Lol, that's hilarious and completely unrealistic. There is not need to build an additional ROW to bring it a block closer. The Duck Pond is fine. It's a shorter walk than most people currently have to their cars and would definitely be a shorter wait time from the stadium to their final destination than the nightmare of traffic out of Norman. They could provide golf cart or other services to handicapped individuals from the stadium to the station. I lived by Sarkey's and we had all sorts of elderly and young people alike parking in our yard for every game that had no issue walking to the stadium and liked how close we were...and the duck pond is two blocks closer.

LOL, l'm fine with your suggestion about the spur but l sit on the west side and the crowd is far younger than it was 10 years ago. lts not a bunch of blue-hairs. ln my section, average of about 45. Older folks can't stand up an entire game.

Yeah, we have a pretty healthy mix in our area on the east side but I would guess it's an even distribution between about 25-55 all of which stand for most of the game.

Lol, that's hilarious and completely unrealistic. There is not need to build an additional ROW to bring it a block closer. The Duck Pond is fine. It's a shorter walk than most people currently have to their cars and would definitely be a shorter wait time from the stadium to their final destination than the nightmare of traffic out of Norman. They could provide golf cart or other services to handicapped individuals from the stadium to the station. I lived by Sarkey's and we had all sorts of elderly and young people alike parking in our yard for every game that had no issue walking to the stadium and liked how close we were...and the duck pond is two blocks closer.

There is the perfect spot for a station where the pocket park is located between the creek and tracks. Then an easy walk to the stadium or into campus down Brooks. OU will continue to expand to the east toward Trout Ave over time and the area to the east of Trout to Boyd to Brooks will fill in with more high density apartments. If anything OU should make Brooks more of a gateway into campus by raising and improving the bridge over the creek and creating better sidewalks/lighting/landscaping, right now it is not in the best shape.

When we consider the non-student average age group who attends OU football games or other OU sports/ events I pretty sure that not very many of them (who often have health issues) are going to want to walk from the stadium all the way to the rail road tracks east of the Duck pond and stand around in the heat, cold and wind…

You understand that it's an open air stadium, right?

You understand that it's an open air stadium, right?

You do understand there are hard limits to how long people can stay outdoors when the weather is not near perfect.

We want them staying at the game as long as possible…We want maximized ridership for everyday use and to not cause people to waste their valuable time. We need to minimize peoples walk in bad weather.

I think you have kind of a scewed prospective of the demographics of non-student game attendees. Elderly people with health issues make up a very small percentage of the crowd and are still getting to and from the stadium currently with some walking involved whether that be a shuttle from Lloyd Noble or elsewhere or a parking spot in the stadium. If those people are hell bent on parking and driving, then the train won't be a good service for them no matter how long they have to wait or walk. There is a ton of waiting involved no matter how you get to and from Norman, so I don't really think a short walk to a train waiting area where you have to wait 30 minutes in a covered area would be that big of deal, especially when it bypasses the hour plus wait in traffic just to get back to downtown OKC.Older doesn’t equal “Elderly” and even younger people can have heath issues.
A train station in my suggested location makes it a better a service for everyone…A station on the current tracks is well off the beaten path for a lot of people…Many young lady's will consider it an unsafe path at night.
There are several faster ways out of Norman after a football game than the suggested roads

Lol, that's hilarious and completely unrealistic. There is not need to build an additional ROW to bring it a block closer. The Duck Pond is fine. It's a shorter walk than most people currently have to their cars and would definitely be a shorter wait time from the stadium to their final destination than the nightmare of traffic out of Norman. They could provide golf cart or other services to handicapped individuals from the stadium to the station. I lived by Sarkey's and we had all sorts of elderly and young people alike parking in our yard for every game that had no issue walking to the stadium and liked how close we were...and the duck pond is two blocks closer.
You have this totally backwards …..There are thousands of parking spots on level ground on a level walking path that are far closer to many buildings that offer shelter, food and restrooms …that a train station on the current tracks is nowhere near in the amounts needed…fans need these things before and after games!The closer they are the better….My location does this, yours does not.

You do understand there are hard limits to how long people can stay outdoors when the weather is not near perfect.

We want them staying at the game as long as possible…We want maximized ridership for everyday use and to not cause people to waste their valuable time. We need to minimize peoples walk in bad weather.

They're outside for 3-4 hours in an open air stadium. Standing under a covered platform for 30 minutes at most isn't going to kill anyone.

Older doesn’t equal “Elderly” and even younger people can have heath issues.
A train station in my suggested location makes it a better a service for everyone…A station on the current tracks is well off the beaten path for a lot of people…Many young lady's will consider it an unsafe path at night.
There are several faster ways out of Norman after a football game than the suggested roads

Uh, what?!? You mean all the young ladies that walk daily to and from the expensive new apartments on Brooks that take up half of the sidewalk between the stadium and the train tracks? Have you even been east of the stadium since 1985? Not sure why anyone would think that walk was dangerous, especially when you're walking through tailgates, by apartments and with hundreds of people after a game.

You realize that your location and the train tracks are less than two blocks from each other on foot, right? It's off the beaten path now because there is no reason to walk that direction unless you live or parked there but it would definitely be on the beaten path if it was a where a train dropped you off and picked you up.

You can take whatever roads you want, but it takes 20-30 minutes to get away from the stadium to whatever road you take out of Norman after games.

You have this totally backwards …..There are thousands of parking spots on level ground on a level walking path that are far closer to many buildings that offer shelter, food and restrooms …that a train station on the current tracks is nowhere near in the amounts needed…fans need these things before and after games!The closer they are the better….My location does this, yours does not.

I just think your definition of close is different than the rest of the world's. You are acting like a 2 block difference between the track and field facility and the train tracks is the end of the world which is hilarious when most people walk half a mile or more to get from where they park to the stadium. The city/university couldn't justify the cost of losing the university parking to build a train station and lay track (which I'm not even sure would be feasible) to put a station at your location vs. the empty lot right by the RR ROW. It wouldn't make that much difference in ridership.

There is the perfect spot for a station where the pocket park is located between the creek and tracks. Then an easy walk to the stadium or into campus down Brooks. OU will continue to expand to the east toward Trout Ave over time and the area to the east of Trout to Boyd to Brooks will fill in with more high density apartments. If anything OU should make Brooks more of a gateway into campus by raising and improving the bridge over the creek and creating better sidewalks/lighting/landscaping, right now it is not in the best shape.

Agreed.

You do understand there are hard limits to how long people can stay outdoors when the weather is not near perfect.


Then you need to talk to Lincoln Riley about his offense creating 4 hour long games.

Then you need to talk to Lincoln Riley about his offense creating 4 hour long games.

I think Lincoln would take that criticism pretty well. If he's anything like the team, he'd certainly have a hard time getting defensive over it.

I just think your definition of close is different than the rest of the world's. You are acting like a 2 block difference between the track and field facility and the train tracks is the end of the world which is hilarious when most people walk half a mile or more to get from where they park to the stadium. The city/university couldn't justify the cost of losing the university parking to build a train station and lay track (which I'm not even sure would be feasible) to put a station at your location vs. the empty lot right by the RR ROW. It wouldn't make that much difference in ridership.
People say they want walkability and trains that take people to the centers of activities for very real reasons …. Your vision to see what is possible with future development in this location is exceptionally limited!

Uh, what?!? You mean all the young ladies that walk daily to and from the expensive new apartments on Brooks that take up half of the sidewalk between the stadium and the train tracks? Have you even been east of the stadium since 1985? Not sure why anyone would think that walk was dangerous, especially when you're walking through tailgates, by apartments and with hundreds of people after a game.

You realize that your location and the train tracks are less than two blocks from each other on foot, right? It's off the beaten path now because there is no reason to walk that direction unless you live or parked there but it would definitely be on the beaten path if it was a where a train dropped you off and picked you up.

You can take whatever roads you want, but it takes 20-30 minutes to get away from the stadium to whatever road you take out of Norman after games.

That’s according to you…Other people have other thoughts and ideas about what makes for a great game day experience and one of those for many people is to minimize the exposure to bad weather but also having close by desired amenities that do not exist at the stadium or near the current tracks...You still have this have this backwards.

Many young lady's will consider it an unsafe path at night because they don’t live near the tracks making it off the beaten path for the vast majority and there are wide open areas they would not like to walk at night. If you don’t know this you don’t know very many women very well at all !!!!!!!!

Nothing has been published that I know of…. but OU has desired a new parking garage on the northeast side of campus…Why not build the new garage in the parking lot north of the OU track location and then build the train station on the inside of the garage, probably on the second floor.

Somewhere a large heat and air conditioned space could be created with restrooms….This saves other OU land for other uses. It provides already needed parking and perhaps park and ride opportunity’s which could make nearby property more valuable, creating more redevelopment opportunities.

OU also desires a new basketball arena. One of the items mentioned about the Rock Creek & I- 35 arena proposal was that it would make travel easier for those fans coming from OKC…Since that is apparently no longer an option ….why not build a new arena directly north of the proposed garage / train station where OKC metro people could take the train to OU basketball games.

This is a winter sport; a short walk across the street is far preferable…In this location the facility would likely see higher use for other events…and like many other universities….would be a great place for activities on a football game day.

More people near Campus Corner more often helps those merchants and the Norman tax base.

People say they want walkability and trains that take people to the centers of activities for very real reasons …. Your vision to see what is possible with future development this location is exceptionally limited

The train goes through downtown Norman, within half a mile of campus corner, within four blocks of the stadium. OU and private developers are actively building out dense development toward the tracks on Boyd, Brooks, and Main...that is the definition of walkability. Regardless of your vision for future development of that area, the area between Jenkins and the tracks is being targeted for both dense residential development and further campus development. Both private developers and the university have been picking up lots in the area for years now and you can see some of the results of that with the new apartments on Brooks and Trout. The next part to go to residential development will be Page Circle.

What's limited would be the feasibility of even building train tracks to the location you suggested. It just makes zero sense in any way. For one, there is no where to put it and two, it would be cost prohibitive with limited benefit, and three, It would take up space that the university is surely saving for a higher use than parking eventually. Game day or general commuter trains would also at least need the ability in the future to run south to south Norman, Purcell, Pauls Valley, and Ardmore. A two block spur would make it unnecessarily more difficult and time consuming to add a southern route. There is already a University bus stop within a stones throw of the train tracks on Brooks...it's like the University was preparing for the future development of that location...

That’s according to you…Other people have other thoughts and ideas about what makes for a great game day experience and one of those for many people is to minimize the exposure to bad weather but also having close by desired amenities that do not exist at the stadium or near the current tracks...You still have this have this backwards.

Many young lady's will consider it an unsafe path at night because they don’t live near the tracks making it off the beaten path for the vast majority and there are wide open areas they would not like to walk at night. If you don’t know this you don’t know very many women very well at all !!!!!!!!

Most young women I know don't consider walking around campus, near the duck pond, or near the upscale apartments on Brooks at night to be dangerous. It isn't any less open than the large parking lot you want to put the station in. At any rate, a large university train platform would likely have security of some sort there late at night anyway. There are also campus buses that can drop students, etc off at the bus stop right next to the train station if they prefer not to walk. You have to build for the future and that is the direction the campus is expanding, there is no room to run train tracks into the campus. It will not be off the beaten path in the near future.

The train goes through downtown Norman, within half a mile of campus corner, within four blocks of the stadium. OU and private developers are actively building out dense development toward the tracks on Boyd, Brooks, and Main...that is the definition of walkability. Regardless of your vision for future development of that area, the area between Jenkins and the tracks is being targeted for both dense residential development and further campus development. Both private developers and the university have been picking up lots in the area for years now and you can see some of the results of that with the new apartments on Brooks and Trout. The next part to go to residential development will be Page Circle.

What's limited would be the feasibility of even building train tracks to the location you suggested. It just makes zero sense in any way. For one, there is no where to put it and two, it would be cost prohibitive with limited benefit, and three, It would take up space that the university is surely saving for a higher use than parking eventually. Game day or general commuter trains would also at least need the ability in the future to run south to south Norman, Purcell, Pauls Valley, and Ardmore. A two block spur would make it unnecessarily more difficult and time consuming to add a southern route. There is already a University bus stop within a stones throw of the train tracks on Brooks...it's like the University was preparing for the future development of that location...

No! The feasibility of building train tracks to the location I’m suggested is very highly feasible with proper engineering …It’s really very elementary and very straight forward…

Since this would incorporate a large parking garage…. the largest increased cost would be the elevated spur to the second floor…
This is a 50 to 100 year decision…it’s well worth the additional cost of doing this right from the very start.

No! The feasibility of building train tracks to the location I’m suggested is very highly feasible with proper engineering …It’s really very elementary and very straight forward…

Since this would incorporate a large parking garage…. the largest increased cost would be the elevated spur to the second floor…
This is a 50 to 100 year decision…it’s well worth the additional cost of doing this right from the very start.

Though in 50-100 years the campus and density will probably extend east of the tracks making the current train route more central and further south which would create a larger need for the train to run south of the stadium. It seems like creating a spur would make running it south more difficult. That just seems like a ton of extra work with very little benefit.

Though in 50-100 years the campus and density will probably extend east of the tracks making the current train route more central and further south which would create a larger need for the train to run south of the stadium. It seems like creating a spur would make running it south more difficult. That just seems like a ton of extra work with very little benefit.

I think it is more likely that the campus continues south rather than east across the train tracks. The university already owns the land and I just don't see them using up all of their available space even in the long term.

Though in 50-100 years the campus and density will probably extend east of the tracks making the current train route more central and further south which would create a larger need for the train to run south of the stadium. It seems like creating a spur would make running it south more difficult. That just seems like a ton of extra work with very little benefit.

There are other train stations with this configuration. They pull into the station from the main line then go back to the main line before proceeding…But in this case, most travel for events would center on the OU station….Placing any train station as close to the center of activity... including for everyday use is desirable in virtually all situations. We have the ability to do this.

There is very limited land to the east…Good luck converting the Duck Pond land into an area for major development.

Most of the available OU land sits on the south end of campus at or near OU's research park…For now they could be serviced by busses…. But the goal is to see OU research expanded by large amounts. Eventually a N/S monorail or light rail system from this part of campus to my proposed train station may be considered. It's far better if this stops near my proposed site than if the station is along the current tracks.

I suppose if we had enough capacity that a special south bound train may be feasible. I have spoken with OU people from Ardmore and Purcell who said they would use a special OU event train. The Nobel foundation is full of OU friendly people…Perhaps they would buy the south bound train?

I think Lincoln would take that criticism pretty well. If he's anything like the team, he'd certainly have a hard time getting defensive over it.

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You do understand there are hard limits to how long people can stay outdoors when the weather is not near perfect.

We want them staying at the game as long as possible…We want maximized ridership for everyday use and to not cause people to waste their valuable time. We need to minimize peoples walk in bad weather.

Interesting argument. I don't know where to start... Do we start by asking more about this outdoor "hard limit" people must obey? Do people pack up and leave mid-2nd quarter? "Sorry, everyone. Just hit the hard limit. I must now find indoor docking station." Or should we discuss the argument that people taking a train are somehow wasting "their valuable time," but people in gridlocked traffic are apparently living their best possible life? Finally, the real concern here is the desperate social need to "minimize peoples walk in bad weather" because we all know how walkers can melt and freeze... or just hit their outdoor time "hard limit."

I'm just kidding around, soonerheart. No hard feelings.

Interesting argument. I don't know where to start... Do we start by asking more about this outdoor "hard limit" people must obey? Do people pack up and leave mid-2nd quarter? "Sorry, everyone. Just hit the hard limit. I must now find indoor docking station." Or should we discuss the argument that people taking a train are somehow wasting "their valuable time," but people in gridlocked traffic are apparently living their best possible life? Finally, the real concern here is the desperate social need to "minimize peoples walk in bad weather" because we all know how walkers can melt and freeze... or just hit their outdoor time "hard limit."

I'm just kidding around, soonerheart. No hard feelings.


Having worked outside with healthy people in some of the most extreme cold and wind that can be found on the mid great plains I can tell you the hard limits are different for different people and that this is self-determined by smart preparation, desire and the ability to tolerate discomfort….Wasting time outside in bad weather while not on task cuts into the amount of time on task..... As people age most eventually have lower and lower hard time limits even in good WX. Many people still in their 30’s & 40’s be hitting their hard limits quicker than they known…It sneaks up on everybody before they are ready.

It’s important to note for the sake of OU that it’s the older people who usually have the most money to spend or donate. Keeping them happy always seems smart.

Some of the northern stadiums have heated areas and or have enclosed their stadium areas below and heat them. Some have heated fields....Others who have high heat problems sometimes have fans & misters. OU has added cooling stations this season which were largely ineffective IMHO…

If you learn them and park in a smart spot you can find your way out of the football congestion with relative ease …Because I know the shortcuts and because of where I park it takes me about 5 more minutes than normal to drive home on a OU game day. I have a reserved spot near clean restrooms about 400 to 500 yards from the stadium. I will be fine with my personal logistics but this isn’t about me.

Yeah, we have a pretty healthy mix in our area on the east side but I would guess it's an even distribution between about 25-55 all of which stand for most of the game.
My Dad attended and stood until he was 88. He walked from parking in the Campus Corner area and never complained until he had a stroke. I'm 60 and do the same, and have gone to games since l was 7-8. I have no problem standing but l now think about it and feel it. 20 years ago, l never gave it a thought. Walking from the duck pond station would be a joy. There are ricksha's (not sure how to spell) if need be and my Dad would have been happy to use one if he needed. Being in that stadium is truly one of my happy-places. Some of my most and least favorite memories come from being in school and being in that stadium. I would give anything if my Dad could be here to enjoy it again. Sorry for getting off track.

I think those hard limits are different when it comes to being in the elements for work versus being outside for fun. OU games seem like fun and places people want to be regardless of weather, so I just don't see why these hard limits are even a thing.

Also, you speak of the elderly as needing to be kept happy. Most of those who donate probably already have their close parking spot, so the train is not for them. The train is for those of us, like me, who will never have a parking spot so close. The train might even help alleviate traffic stress making game day better for all involved. When looking at Google Maps of the Duck Pond area, the walk is not that great. Most people using the train would have to walk that distance, if not more for parking.

I have been given the opportunity twice this season to go to an OU game, once for homecoming and once for bedlam. I declined because I did not want to deal with traffic in and out of Norman nor the parking hassles. If there was a game day train, I would have snatched these in a heartbeat.

I think those hard limits are different when it comes to being in the elements for work versus being outside for fun. OU games seem like fun and places people want to be regardless of weather, so I just don't see why these hard limits are even a thing.

Also, you speak of the elderly as needing to be kept happy. Most of those who donate probably already have their close parking spot, so the train is not for them. The train is for those of us, like me, who will never have a parking spot so close. The train might even help alleviate traffic stress making game day better for all involved. When looking at Google Maps of the Duck Pond area, the walk is not that great. Most people using the train would have to walk that distance, if not more for parking.

I have been given the opportunity twice this season to go to an OU game, once for homecoming and once for bedlam. I declined because I did not want to deal with traffic in and out of Norman nor the parking hassles. If there was a game day train, I would have snatched these in a heartbeat.

I believe almost all of us can agree that a train would help OU attendance, reduce congestion and help with everyday needs….

The question I have is to what degree and what current and future OU development could be enhanced by the location of a train station if its located in a large new parking garage that OU already desires. This location is close to the stadium and other important destinations.

The hard limits are different depending on the activity and conditions but they are still very real….Many people leave games early because of exposure to heat & cold…..but as you suggest some leave early or don’t even attend because of traffic….Many people don’t know the quicker ways out of town on a game day.

This is a follow up to the potential new OU Basketball arena location.

One of the desires of the I-35 Rock Creek arena location was to have an entertainment district built nearby.

Building a new arena on the NE corner of Jenkins and Brooks is within walking distance of Campus Corner, and the OU Student Union. They already have most of the desired entertainment options. This saves a large amount of money in development cost and allows the I-35 Rock Creek land to be used for other projects. People who say they don’t like urban sprawl should like this.

Building the train station just to the south of a new arena in a large parking garage that OU wants to build anyway, along with other parking options solves many of the logistical problems that have been complained about .

It’s also within walking distance for students living in the dorms, most Greek houses and some of the nearby apartments. The Cart Buses and shuttles could operate out of the bottom floor of the new proposed parking garage/ train station.

I don't know much about Norman or the campus layout, but from looking at google maps it looks like you are wanting a spur to move the station ~1200ft closer to the stadium? Am i understanding this correctly? I do not think that would be necessary at all unless i am missing something.

I don't know much about Norman or the campus layout, but from looking at google maps it looks like you are wanting a spur to move the station ~1200ft closer to the stadium? Am i understanding this correctly? I do not think that would be necessary at all unless i am missing something.


It would be located in a large new parking garage that OU wants to build anyway.

It would be more capable of handling large events and offer a far larger area of substantial shelter with heat / AC and restrooms.
The needed utilities such as steam and chilled water are close by this location.

The trains are going to need service and mechanical attention somewhere….

Why not do this in part of the parking garage building….This building would also offer trains protection against our large hail and other weather hazards.

RTA UPDATE

Oklahoma City voted unanimously (Councilmember Salyer was absent) today to approve the RTA Trust Indenture.

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Del City voted to approve the trust indenture last night.

Still remaining...Midwest City votes next week...Moore votes the first week of December.

No! The feasibility of building train tracks to the location I’m suggested is very highly feasible with proper engineering …It’s really very elementary and very straight forward…

Since this would incorporate a large parking garage…. the largest increased cost would be the elevated spur to the second floor…
This is a 50 to 100 year decision…it’s well worth the additional cost of doing this right from the very start.

If there was a firm commitment to build the commuter rail, l bet the RTA could solicit a builder to construct a station and parking garage FOR the RTA in exchange for being approved to build a condo/apt/office/retail/hotel complex around it.

The trains are going to need service and mechanical attention somewhere….

Why not do this in part of the parking garage building….This building would also offer trains protection against our large hail and other weather hazards.

Judging from the maintenance buildings for Denvers rail system, you need a larger building and a switch yard for extra cars

I know y'all rail but their needs to be buses as well as rail even moreso.

I know y'all rail but their needs to be buses as well as rail even moreso.

The advantage of adding rail is it allows the bus lines to be optimized for shorter routes with more frequency. The goal of the RTA is to create an intermodal network that better serves the public.

The advantage of adding rail is it allows the bus lines to be optimized for shorter routes with more frequency. The goal of the RTA is to create an intermodal network that better serves the public.

Exactly. The RTA is not all about trains.

The RTA and future regional transit system would provide a greatly expanded bus system serving the entire regional transit district. While rail transit excites the public and drives support and development of most regional transit systems, bus transit remains the backbone of those systems. Without an extensive bus system providing connectivity to and from rail stations, rail transit is much less effective and ridership suffers. That’s why bus system expansion is the first step in the development of any new regional transit system. As a result, bus system ridership soars, as bus transit service reaches thousands of more riders who were not previously being effectively served by the old system.

I like to use Salt Lake City's regional transit system as a great model for OKC to emulate. Shortly after Salt Lake began operations of its first rail transit line in 1999, bus and rail ridership soared to nearly 29 million annual riders. Now, twenty years later with an extensive bus, light rail, commuter rail, streetcar and BRT regional system, Salt Lake's ridership is approaching 50 million annually. Here are the 2016 numbers:

System
125 bus routes - 484 buses - 6196 active bus stops
1 bus rapid transit line
3 light rail lines
1 commuter rail line - 89 miles - 16 stations
1 streetcar line

Average Daily Weekday Boardings
Bus - 46,373
Rail - 78,489

Annual System Ridership
45,572,702

Here's the UTA system map for Salt Lake County showing the extensive bus network overlain on the commuter rail, light rail and streetcar lines.

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If it's a great bus system you want, it's a great bus system you'll get with an RTA and regional transit system.

Great editorial...

Journal Record Editorial: Is Middle America ready for commuter rail? (http://journalrecord.com/2018/11/26/ray-is-middle-america-ready-for-commuter-rail/)

RTA UPDATE

Midwest City voted unanimously to approve the RTA Trust Indenture last night. Five cities in...one to go.

Moore City Council votes next week. If you're a transit supporter and you live in Moore, please contact your City Council representative and ask for their support.

Forgive me if this has been answered but is there some reason Mustang, El Reno and Yukon aren't involved? Seems a line west would be beneficial

Forgive me if this has been answered but is there some reason Mustang, El Reno and Yukon aren't involved? Seems a line west would be beneficial

From what I heard and read, the cities itself where not interested as their population density is still very low.

Somebody else will be able to give you more information.

They were included/invited, but opted out at this time.

RTA UPDATE

Moore City Council voted unanimously to approve the RTA Trust Indenture on Monday night. All six founding members have approved the historic agreement, which now goes into affect. The next step will be the appointment of individual trustees to the board of the RTA by the various city councils. Oklahoma City appoints two members, while Norman, Edmond, Moore, Midwest City and Del City each appoint one member. Starting early next year, the RTA will begin work on a comprehensive regional transit system plan and initiate discussions with BNSF, UP and SWC on utilizing their rail corridors for commuter rail service.

Hutch - there is a lot of rhetoric going around that say we still won't see service for 10-15 years. With as long as the streetcar took I guess this makes sense, but is that your feeling as well?

Hutch - there is a lot of rhetoric going around that say we still won't see service for 10-15 years. With as long as the streetcar took I guess this makes sense, but is that your feeling as well?

There are two difficult and critical steps to getting a regional transit system into operation. The first we just accomplished with the approval of the RTA Trust Indenture between the cities.

The second is getting voters to approve a dedicated transit funding source. Once permanent funding is secured, the RTA can begin issuing bonds and receiving federal matching funds. At that point, system development can begin. Bus system expansion would likely take place in the first 3-5 years. During that period, Commuter Rail, BRT, Streetcar and Hub planning and development will commence, with initial rail service coming online in years 7-10.

If we passed a funding measure tomorrow and really got after it, we could have a comprehensive metro-wide bus system and initial Commuter Rail line in operation within 7-10 years. But there's the kicker. The clock doesn't start until the member cities of the RTA are willing to ask the public to vote on a dedicated funding source, which is currently limited by state statute to sales tax. And we would need at least 1/2-cent to fund a modest system. And that's where it becomes very political.

As Oklahoma is the only state in the country that doesn't allow cities to utilize ad valorem taxes to help fund city services, sales tax is the only option. As such, municipalities are very protective of their sales tax base, as they frequently seek voter approval for various temporary sales tax measures to fund public safety, storm water and other needs. Further, community development programs like MAPS and Norman Forward that are heavily supported by local chambers of commerce and the business community rely on temporary sales tax for funding.

So, the answer to when we will have the initial bus and rail services of a regional transit system up and running really depends on when the various city council's decide to allow the citizens to vote for transit funding. And much of that decision depends on when our municipal and business leaders decide that regional transit is important enough to be willing to let go of a small share of the sales tax pie. If it's in the next 3-5 years, initial operations could be 10-15 years away. If they sit on their hands for another decade, it will be 2035-2040 before those services are in place. We really can't afford to wait that long.

If you're a transit supporter and understand how critical a regional transit system is to ensuring our transportation and economic future, as well as improving our quality of life, it's imperative that you continue to let your city council members and community leaders know how important it is that we get going sooner rather than later.

I moved all the recent BRT posts to this thread:

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=44738

Apologies if someone like Hutch posted about this previously, but there's been lots of questions about cities that opted out of the RTA joining in the future. We had an ACOG CAC meeting last night and we got an RTA update (nothing we don't already know here), but I asked the question about cities like Mustang and Yukon joining in the future. The way the RTA is structured, cities CAN join later, but because they opted out of the initial "buy-in" (the $2M put up by the founding members), they will not be voting members, they will be at the mercy of the voting (founding) members going forward. The voting/weighting structure will not change as other cities are added, even though those cities will have to help fund the system as members. We were told this is similar to how other RTAs have done things.

Also, unfortunately, ACOG expects an RTA-wide funding vote won't take place for 3-4 years, 2 at the absolute earliest. That was disappointing to hear.

Mayor Holt just announced that he is appointing Governor Brad Henry and Mary Melon to be OKC's representatives on the newly-formed RTA.

https://twitter.com/davidfholt/status/1083745842928992256

Very exciting news! Great leadership is critical to the success of the RTA. Mayor Holt's appointment of Brad Henry and Mary Melon will go a long way to ensuring that success.

I just hope they staff the board with folks who KNOW transit. Urban Pioneer would be a great board member, and perhaps someone from another city with successful regional transit.

We do have great people but it's important to focus on the product and people knowledgeable/successful on it and not just great people we like or can run a business.

Why are Henry and Melon such great assets to regional transit in OKC?

The next critical and difficult step in creating a regional transit system is passing a region-wide dedicated funding referendum. That will require much more than technical studies and a system plan. The most important aspect of it will be public education and a successful marketing campaign.

Consultants and transportation professionals at ACOG can handle the technical planning. But we'll need an RTA Board with strong leadership skills who know how to manage and win a major public campaign initiative. In that regard, we need a major public figure with broad regional support to lead the RTA Board and champion the effort. That person will become the "face" of regional transit for OKC in the years ahead. I believe Governor Henry will serve that role well. And it's my understanding that he is excited and enthusiastic about his new role.

While Governor Henry and Ms. Melon will definitely need to do some homework to get up to speed with regional transit systems in general and all of our planning efforts and projects to date, that's not an issue. And what they bring to the table in terms of professionalism and public support and confidence is invaluable for the critical steps ahead.

If it helps to ease concerns, I've been appointed to the RTA Board. So, there will be at least one Board member with comprehensive institutional knowledge of where we've been and how we got here over the last decade. And you can be sure that I'll share what I know with the other Board members to make sure our decisions are fully-informed.

I'm incredibly excited!! I feel like I've asked this before, but I simply don't recall the answer and I can't seem to find it looking back in this thread... I know there are some variables that will affect the timeline, but if you had to guess how far off we are from inaugurating commuter rail service along the BNSF corridor, what kind of time frame do you think is most probable?

Also, keep in mind that until a permanent funding source is approved by the voters, the RTA will not be involved in the development and operation of any transit systems. And once funding is approved, the first thing the RTA Board will do is begin hiring the necessary full-time staff of transit planners, engineers, accountants, attorneys and other professionals with backgrounds in rail and bus transit development and operations to design, build, expand and run the regional transit system. So beyond the initial planning and marketing efforts, the primary work of the RTA Board down the road will be organizational oversight, including providing overall program direction and authorizations for annual budgeting, which could be in the hundreds of millions of dollars. So it's imperative that there are RTA Board members with the necessary governance, legal and financial backgrounds and experience to successfully oversee a large organization of that nature.

If it helps to ease concerns, I've been appointed to the RTA Board.
For my part, this is outstanding news. Congratulations, Hutch! Serve us well.

YES, congrats Hutch. I'd also recommend UP and several others who are active on OKCTalk to be part of the board. Its really a movement that we need transit minds and political to come together (as you mention).

Cheers!

https://twitter.com/ACOGOK/status/1096096173918687232

RTA launch event