Just some personal observations...

I'm concerned for the existing Renaissance. There is absolutely no comparison between a 25 floor hotel attached to a convention/arena space, and a small hotel like this in bricktown. It's great to have it here and all, but if i have a choice between the two, i think i'll take the existing tower. How often does a hotel change flags from the original one, and it end up being a good thing? My concern is that it would be the start of a downward spiral for the existing hotel. At only 17 years old, it's a baby. Not too many people realize that the meeting space in the Cox Center is coordinated with the hotel as well. So when my previous employer rented room space during a tradeshow, we did our business out of the hotel offices and that includes the food service coordination. Just because the new CC shows up, dont expect the Cox to just stop doing business. It will take a major hit though. But with this construction, the Renaissance will be further away from the "action".

UnfrSakn mentioned Spaghetti Warehouse. I wonder why someone wouldn't just look at that space to convert? The structure is sound (i mean i guess as far as i know). Being warehouse space, it would have had sufficient floor height and similar column spacing. I'm sure negotiations were all part of the deal here though. Given what's happening, it might not surprise me to see a different flag take that building.

Danrutka mentioned Chelinos. The back side of that stretch of canal buildings has been an eyesore from day one. I'm hoping the blockage of the view by a garage and a building will help force more focus on the canal side. Personally, i think Chelino's is nasty, but somehow that place has managed to stay in business through all the changes in Bricktown.

For Parking, this is probably one of the few times that i feel like adding a garage will be a good thing. It's going to HAVE to be open to the public as well as hotel guests though. It's an area with very little parking available and would take the biggest public lot in the area. It's used pretty frequently for the lunch crowd. It's going to make things difficult during construction, but would actually make things better in the long run. My fear here is if another hotel takes the Spaghetti space, maybe some deal gets made, and then it's no longer publicly available. The lot just west of here near the tracks has a lot of business employee parking in it so weekdays are full, but it's open for weekends. But it's at that far west end of Bricktown. And we all know Okies are some lazy farts when it comes to walking......


I've thought the same. Hard to imagine what flag it will end up with.


Dr. Beard Face up thread mentioned that the owners are looking at a high end Westin...

Given its location, I'm not worried about the building's future. It's going to have a rough 5 years after the Cox CC closes down, but it will rebound nicely after that.

I think Lackmeyer said in at least one of his chats that the Spaghetti Warehouse bldg would require extensive renovation (but don't quote me on that), at least of the ground floor (there are holes in it, and it's just in pretty crappy shape overall), not totally sure about the upper floors, but I think they've been vacant for years, if not decades, so they're probably in not great shape either.

Having said that, this design is pretty cool, be really nice if it goes in as projected.

Requring extensive renovation pretty much describes every Brick town building that hasn't already received renovation. The Spaghetti Warehouse building is one of the few left to be renovated. Along with restoring the uhual building back to its former glory.

I just realized we're going to lose the Bricktown flagpole that flies the USA and Thunder flag. I'm okay with that though. These plans look fantastic and I really hope they approve this design!

Congrats, guys!

The scale fits in with Bricktown.

I made a thread for the project on SSP.

While I like this building, it would be nice to hear of something of this scale being built in Bricktown that isn't a hotel.

I agree, ^ are we not at saturation point yet for hotels down there? Looks very nice though.

While I like this building, it would be nice to hear of something of this scale being built in Bricktown that isn't a hotel.

This has been proposed but hasn't been able to get off the ground yet.

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=41114&highlight=cummins

The Cox will be demolished and redeveloped into normal lots that fit with the streetscape. So yes, the Cox will "stop doing business". Great move for the city. The property will be prime location.

Unless you have some insight into a plan no one else does, that's most definitely NOT on the map right now.



Dr. Beard Face up thread mentioned that the owners are looking at a high end Westin...

I wonder if that makes sense though. We've got a pretty nice Westin right now, and something on the same level is going to directly compete with that...within the same brand family. It's too far from the CC to get a Marriot family to take it, but the trick here is getting deals for Thunder games/etc. What the Westin and Current "R" have, is proximity to the 'Peake that the new CC and hotel will not have. One could say something similar for the soccer stadium, although that's a bit of a stretch since it's still quite a walk to get there even from the Myriad. I'm thinking those recurring customers like the teams and their entourages/media/etc. The wont will it on a normal day, but they can make a pretty good dent.

With the Skirvin/Colcord around the corner too, i'm wondering if the high-end hotelier brands are saturated. I have no idea really since i dont rent hotel rooms here. But each of them are large players in the game. I'm sure demographers are taking a hard look before they decide who's flag to fly there. Lacking a garage, a GOOD driveway (like the Westin), and zero meeting space whatsoever, has always been an issue IMO for the "R". Too much relied on the Cox being there....and it wont last forever. I dont think it's going anywhere any time soon, but it wont live forever. I still think the city will hold it until it's time to replace the Peake. Already own the land....and it's big enough of a lot that they can build more than just an arena when they do build. Not quite a Barklay's, but plenty of room for mixed-use/etc. on the superblock. No reason to chop it up either....doesn't get us anything since it doesn't alter access to anything by bringing the grid back there.

Unless you have some insight into a plan no one else does, that's most definitely NOT on the map right now.




I wonder if that makes sense though. We've got a pretty nice Westin right now, and something on the same level is going to directly compete with that...within the same brand family. It's too far from the CC to get a Marriot family to take it, but the trick here is getting deals for Thunder games/etc. What the Westin and Current "R" have, is proximity to the 'Peake that the new CC and hotel will not have. One could say something similar for the soccer stadium, although that's a bit of a stretch since it's still quite a walk to get there even from the Myriad. I'm thinking those recurring customers like the teams and their entourages/media/etc. The wont will it on a normal day, but they can make a pretty good dent.

With the Skirvin/Colcord around the corner too, i'm wondering if the high-end hotelier brands are saturated. I have no idea really since i dont rent hotel rooms here. But each of them are large players in the game. I'm sure demographers are taking a hard look before they decide who's flag to fly there. Lacking a garage, a GOOD driveway (like the Westin), and zero meeting space whatsoever, has always been an issue IMO for the "R". Too much relied on the Cox being there....and it wont last forever. I dont think it's going anywhere any time soon, but it wont live forever. I still think the city will hold it until it's time to replace the Peake. Already own the land....and it's big enough of a lot that they can build more than just an arena when they do build. Not quite a Barklay's, but plenty of room for mixed-use/etc. on the superblock. No reason to chop it up either....doesn't get us anything since it doesn't alter access to anything by bringing the grid back there.

We don't have a Westin right now. It changed to Sheraton a long time ago. Also Sheraton and Westin are both Marriott brands now anyway since there merger with starwood

Also the cc hotel will be closer to the Peake than these hotels as it will just be across the blvd.

Unless you have some insight into a plan no one else does, that's most definitely NOT on the map right now.




I wonder if that makes sense though. We've got a pretty nice Westin right now, and something on the same level is going to directly compete with that...within the same brand family. It's too far from the CC to get a Marriot family to take it, but the trick here is getting deals for Thunder games/etc. What the Westin and Current "R" have, is proximity to the 'Peake that the new CC and hotel will not have. One could say something similar for the soccer stadium, although that's a bit of a stretch since it's still quite a walk to get there even from the Myriad. I'm thinking those recurring customers like the teams and their entourages/media/etc. The wont will it on a normal day, but they can make a pretty good dent.

With the Skirvin/Colcord around the corner too, i'm wondering if the high-end hotelier brands are saturated. I have no idea really since i dont rent hotel rooms here. But each of them are large players in the game. I'm sure demographers are taking a hard look before they decide who's flag to fly there. Lacking a garage, a GOOD driveway (like the Westin), and zero meeting space whatsoever, has always been an issue IMO for the "R". Too much relied on the Cox being there....and it wont last forever. I dont think it's going anywhere any time soon, but it wont live forever. I still think the city will hold it until it's time to replace the Peake. Already own the land....and it's big enough of a lot that they can build more than just an arena when they do build. Not quite a Barklay's, but plenty of room for mixed-use/etc. on the superblock. No reason to chop it up either....doesn't get us anything since it doesn't alter access to anything by bringing the grid back there.

Where is our Westin?

Unless you have some insight into a plan no one else does, that's most definitely NOT on the map right now.




I wonder if that makes sense though. We've got a pretty nice Westin right now, and something on the same level is going to directly compete with that...within the same brand family. It's too far from the CC to get a Marriot family to take it, but the trick here is getting deals for Thunder games/etc. What the Westin and Current "R" have, is proximity to the 'Peake that the new CC and hotel will not have. One could say something similar for the soccer stadium, although that's a bit of a stretch since it's still quite a walk to get there even from the Myriad. I'm thinking those recurring customers like the teams and their entourages/media/etc. The wont will it on a normal day, but they can make a pretty good dent.

With the Skirvin/Colcord around the corner too, i'm wondering if the high-end hotelier brands are saturated. I have no idea really since i dont rent hotel rooms here. But each of them are large players in the game. I'm sure demographers are taking a hard look before they decide who's flag to fly there. Lacking a garage, a GOOD driveway (like the Westin), and zero meeting space whatsoever, has always been an issue IMO for the "R". Too much relied on the Cox being there....and it wont last forever. I dont think it's going anywhere any time soon, but it wont live forever. I still think the city will hold it until it's time to replace the Peake. Already own the land....and it's big enough of a lot that they can build more than just an arena when they do build. Not quite a Barklay's, but plenty of room for mixed-use/etc. on the superblock. No reason to chop it up either....doesn't get us anything since it doesn't alter access to anything by bringing the grid back there.

I think they'll keep the Cox Center until somebody comes in with a big plan to do something with that space. We probably need a combination of good plan, developer with money, and really high oil prices to get it done right. I think they'll sit on it and just let it operate until all those factors come together.

As a second convention center and a second arena, the Cox isn't that bad. It's certainly not nice enough to be the city's primary convention center, but it's not so much of an eyesore that the city will be itching to tear it down. I think they'll do a cost benefit analysis one the new convention center is up and running, and they'll see if there's an advantage to keeping the Cox. Theoretically you could host more conventions at the same time. You'd have an oil and gas convention or something at the new center, and maybe a classic car show or whatever at the Cox. As long as it isn't losing money, I think they'll keep it around for a while.

As valuable as the property should be, if we were to tear it down today, that would make 3 sides of the Myriad Gardens that were surrounded by empty (or mostly empty) lots. At least one of those sides needs to fill in first before we go adding another empty side.

The biggest issue in redeveloping the Cox Center is the tons of valuable parking spaces underneath.

If/when they build a new garage for the new CC and hotel that will help but those spaces serve lots of companies in the CBD right now and is completely full.

My bad, i guess i always think of it as the Westin and forget the Sheraton switch. D'oh! Its' only been like 10 years since it happened.....geez. im getting old.

Steve is reporting in this article (http://newsok.com/article/5540891) that this project was approved by the Bricktown Urban Design Committee yesterday and construction is planned to start in May.

Steve is reporting in this article (http://newsok.com/article/5540891) that this project was approved by the Bricktown Urban Design Committee yesterday and construction is planned to start in May.
I'm very happy about this being approved but kinda sad were losing the flagpole.

Steve is reporting in this article (http://newsok.com/article/5540891) that this project was approved by the Bricktown Urban Design Committee yesterday and construction is planned to start in May.

They have not yet filed their building permit and on a project this size, it often takes several months to get them approved, typically with several back-and-forth iterations before get final sign off.

May would be awesome but unlikely.

I'm very happy about this being approved but kinda sad were losing the flagpole.

It will not go away, It's being moved to another as yet undetermined location in bricktown.

They have not yet filed their building permit and on a project this size, it often takes several months to get them approved, typically with several back-and-forth iterations before get final sign off.

May would be awesome but unlikely.

Maybe they plan to begin taking down the flag, tearing up and removing the parking lot, and start doing site prep in May. Would technically be construction on the project but not necessarily the building.

Since May is practically gone and this site was still a parking lot today when I drove by, I'm guessing they're waiting til the streetcar construction in that direct vicinity is complete before moving forward?

Whats going on with this project? I pretty much forgot about it.

Waiting for the flagpole to move maybe

The flagpole isn't impacting the start; and in fact it's essentially been decided to let it go at this point. For some time, the start of construction has been projected to be this month. Even if it doesn't happen this month all systems are still go presently.

Building permits have not been issued as of yet.

The flagpole isn't impacting the start; and in fact it's essentially been decided to let it go at this point. For some time, the start of construction has been projected to be this month. Even if it doesn't happen this month all systems are still go presently.

Yeah, Richard McKown talked about the results of the design meeting (regarding the flag) at the last BID board meeting (incidentally I made a suggestion he seemed to like [which is not to say it's feasible] that I should PM you about), so I knew what was up with that, I just didn't know if they were waiting to proceed until that meeting happened, which if so may have pushed start times back I was thinking.

The hotel developer is in no way waiting for resolution on the flagpole issue and is free to proceed at any time.

Whats happening here?

Whats happening here?

They submitted their building permit application in May and the City came back to them with a request for tons more info and they haven't responded.

Usually a sign they are in no hurry to get started.

Is the city's request for more info publicly available somewhere?

Is the city's request for more info publicly available somewhere?

On the city's permit system.

The process is:

1. Applicant submits form and info in aid of a building permit
2. City staff reviews and come back with request for more details and clarifications
3. Applicant answers
4. City staff again reviews
5. Repeat 3 & 4 until building permit is issued.

This project has been stuck on #2 for months. That is usually a sign the developer is not in any hurry for various reasons, the most common being that the submission of a building permit application (step #1) almost always coincides with seeking construction bids and financing. When those things aren't going well (need to rebid project, revise plans to reduce costs, can't get financing) the developer is in no rush to move past step #2 until those issues are resolved on their end.

I had a chance meeting with the general contactor a couple of weeks ago. He was on site - visiting from Fayetteville - and was here photographing the site and making plans for things like crane location and construction barricades. He expects construction to proceed relatively soon, but just as we were discussing schedule I was pulled away by a phone call.

Has this project died? What’s the hold up?

Was just told today they are moving forward.

However, they still have not responded to the City's request for items needed for their building permit application that came in June of last year.

Was just told today they are moving forward.

However, they still have not responded to the City's request for items needed for their building permit application that came in June of last year.

That’s odd - but very good to hear they’re still moving forward.

There is some movement in the Bricktown Urban Design Committee regarding this project. It looks as though the owner has submitted revisions and received design approval.

There is some movement in the Bricktown Urban Design Committee regarding this project. It looks as though the owner has submitted revisions and received design approval.
Is there a copy of the agenda available somewhere? I looked at OKC.gov but only found general information about the committee, nothing about agendas.

https://www.okc.gov/departments/planning/meetings-and-events-calendar

Click on the meeting you want to view, and if the agenda is available you can access it from there.

I have that link as one of my home pages, and check it when I get to the office. It really helps me keep track of everything that is moving around town.

I was able to find the agenda for the March meeting linked at https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=4860&doctype=AGENDA, and that has the revisions PDF linked for download if you scroll down to 8.A.1 and click for the supporting matrials (the PDF download is at the bottom of the box over to the right).

The PDF link (https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=3975275) directly, though i understand that document links off the city website have a habit of not persistantly working and as such it may not work for anyone else.

https://www.okc.gov/departments/planning/meetings-and-events-calendar

Click on the meeting you want to view, and if the agenda is available you can access it from there.

I have that link as one of my home pages, and check it when I get to the office. It really helps me keep track of everything that is moving around town.


I was able to find the agenda for the March meeting linked at https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=4860&doctype=AGENDA, and that has the revisions PDF linked for download if you scroll down to 8.A.1 and click for the supporting matrials (the PDF download is at the bottom of the box over to the right).

The PDF link (https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=3975275) directly, though i understand that document links off the city website have a habit of not persistantly working and as such it may not work for anyone else.
Thanks to both of you! I apparently just don't know how to Google properly.

David, your direct .pdf link worked perfectly for me.

Any updates?

https://newsok.com/article/5606174/questions-emerge-on-bricktown-hotel-building-spree


latest report is work won't start for another few months

^

We've been hearing that for a year and a half.

Hope it turns out to be true this time.

Those properties east of 235 have really thrown a monkey wrench into things overall. Discount rooms so close to the core is giving other developers pause. And obviously the Omni will put pressure on the upper end of the market.

My fear is still the current Renaissance downtown becoming a rundown "OKC Hotel" or something like what happened to the Marriott on NW Expressway or old Holiday Inn in Norman. Would be a shame.

Agreed jonny. I'm very concerned about what's going to happen to the old hotel once the convention center opens and they lose all that income from meetings. Remember, this hotel still manages the meeting space at the Myriad (i'll always call it that).

The Norman Holiday Inn didn't survive either, it's totally closed. So that's not something to give confidence. And after this long, the one on the NW XWay hasn't gotten is flag back. So i feel like its probably doomed too. So what are we going to do downtown, treat it like the old Biltmore and impload it?

If it does close, i mean there's definite potential there for conversion to residential and office mixed-use. That atrium as part of a residential tower, pretty nifty. BUT, as residential, you're going to have to be looking at if from a NON-upscale side. I really feel like we've reached a point there that's tapping out in the larger downtown area. But this would be a rather large amount of whatever came in. And they'd have to figure out parking for residents. Just a thought.

The NW Exp hotel is under active renovation so hopefully will be flagged again at some point.

My fear is still the current Renaissance downtown becoming a rundown "OKC Hotel" or something like what happened to the Marriott on NW Expressway or old Holiday Inn in Norman. Would be a shame.

Checked in on the old Marriott on NW Expwy last week---they are working on rooms now and public spaces are next. They hope to have Embassy Suites flag before the end of the year. I am not holding my breath but the sales mgr seemed positive. Right now, walking in, there is no change, but it is coming, I have been assured.

Renaissance and Sheraton will be fine. They are the closest full service hotels to the CBD, and both are directly on the streetcar line. It’s possible they could change the concept at some point to be more attractive to different clientele, but I don’t see them having any trouble. The Sheraton has contracts with Southwest Airlines and United for overnight crews. I believe Southwest alone blocks up to 30 rooms a night. From my friend who is a Southwest pilot it is a favorite hotel for crews for overnighting due to proximity to Bricktown, but also far enough away that it is still quiet later in the evening.

^^^^^^
OK, literally none of those worst-case scenarios are going to happen. That hotel is still reasonably modern and in good shape, and probably on the best real estate downtown for a hotel (which obviously changes with the opening of the CC but not by THAT much). Depending on what flag it ends up with should it still lose the Renaissance flag, as long as it remains on a major reservation system it may even see room bookings INCREASE when the CC opens. It's a valuable asset which will be very appealing to an investor or investors if the current ownership chooses to sell.

Renaissance and Sheraton will be fine. They are the closest full service hotels to the CBD, and both are directly on the streetcar line. It’s possible they could change the concept at some point to be more attractive to different clientele, but I don’t see them having any trouble. The Sheraton has contracts with Southwest Airlines and United for overnight crews. I believe Southwest alone blocks up to 30 rooms a night. From my friend who is a Southwest pilot it is a favorite hotel for crews for overnighting due to proximity to Bricktown, but also far enough away that it is still quiet later in the evening.

Yep. We see Southwest crews all of the time in Bricktown.

I wonder if the Fairfield Inn has something to do with the delay on this hotel. It is the same developer, and OCURA sold them the land for the Fairfield Inn with a time limit to develop it. The Renaissance may have taken less priority, just as the Body Works site has taken less priority than the NW Expressway Marriott.

Any updates?

Any updates?

There hasn't been any movement on the permitting side, and that's a bad sign.

I think this is dead. I saw a tweet somewhere (cannot find now) saying they are putting the flagpole back up and the construction is cancelled. Yay another parking lot save for B Town.

That's too bad because this was to be a nice, full-service hotel rather than all the 100-room, HVAC-through-the-wall places of which there are many.

I think this is dead. I saw a tweet somewhere (cannot find now) saying they are putting the flagpole back up and the construction is cancelled. Yay another parking lot save for B Town.
https://twitter.com/_Bricktown/status/1095681640666402819

I'm not surprised because actions (zero movement in the permitting system) speak louder than their constant assertions in the Oklahoman that all is well.

But it's a big bummer nonetheless.

I'm not surprised because actions (zero movement in the permitting system) speak louder than their constant assertions in the Oklahoman that all is well.

But it's a big bummer nonetheless.

i think it died because the Oklahoman kept talking about it... aren't they the ones that always say, if you talk about a project, it will die??? lol

I really kind of wondered about this project after word came out the parking garage was being scrapped as they consistently said that a parking garage adjacent was a must for this happen. That actually was a decent parking garage(though it could have been worlds better) and would have cleared way for other lots to be developed. Sad that Bricktown lost this development and the 10 story building down the street. Oh well, it's only a matter of time before Bricktown really booms. I'm not all that sad about the Bodyworks site not happening as that really wasn't the best development.

10-story full-service hotel set to move forward in Bricktown (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=638-10-story-full-service-hotel-set-to-move-forward-in-Bricktown)

After more than two years of delays, the much anticipated Marriott Renaissance project in Bricktown is moving forward.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/marriott080719g.jpg


OKCTalk was first to report (http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=363-First-look-at-proposed-Marriott-Renaissance-hotel-in-Bricktown) the plans in February of 2017, but then the project stalled with the developer Andy Patel being noncommittal about the hotel's future.

But yesterday, Patel refiled his design plans for the site at Sheridan and Oklahoma, as the previous approval had expired.

Lisa Chronister of the Oklahoma City Planning Department said that Patel is seeking to have the building permits issued so he can start work, but first needed to have the design reapproved by planning.

Patel told the planning department that the original plans have not changed, which called for a 10-story building of brick and bronze metal cladding with 182 guest rooms.

Unlike most the hotels that have opened in Bricktown and the central core in the last few years, the new Marriott Renaissance would be a full-service facility with an on-site restaurant, a concierge, room service and other luxury amenities.

The high-profile corner is known for a huge flagpole and American flag that was recently put back into service. Patel's plans call for the flagpole and surface parking to be demolished.

As detailed in our Downtown Hotel Summary (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=34292), the new Marriott Renaissance would add to the 2,946 current room total in the urban core, with 887 more rooms under construction, including the 605-room Omni convention hotel.

As building permits had been filed and approved some time ago, construction could start relatively quickly.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/marriott080719h.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/marriott080818a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/marriott080818b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/marriott080818c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/marriott080818d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/marriott080818e.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/marriott080719a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/marriott080719b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/marriott080719c.jpg

“It’s about damn time” - LeBron James