Surely there are communities with golf courses out there that guarantee the golf course won't be developed. If I bought a home specifically to be on a golf course, I'd sure want some kind of protection against it ever being developed.

Surely there are communities with golf courses out there that guarantee the golf course won't be developed. If I bought a home specifically to be on a golf course, I'd sure want some kind of protection against it ever being developed.

I had thought about that, but I'm not sure any sort of protection would be worth the paper it's written on. Any community course that was developed into something else was probably done so due to insolvency or some sort, so it's not like there's a recourse.

If I was interested in something like that, I guess I'd look for a long term, well established golf community with solid financials. Personally, I have no interest in owning a home where there's a possibility of someone hitting a golf ball through my rear window or walking through my backyard. But I'm anti social.

If the golf course went out of business, the grounds would quickly go to seed and start looking like the set of the “Walking Dead:” Tall grass & weeds, dying trees, overgrown paths, untended sand traps. Wildlife would return, and perhaps vandals & vagrants. There’s much to be said for a natural look, but I’m not sure that homeowners on the perimeter would welcome this over a development.

I have a feeling the residents are going to ultimately come to regret not embracing the proposed plan and fighting so hard against it. They just cannot accept that something is going to go there. Now it’ll just end up being a less refined something with the developer meeting the zoning and saying to heck with it in making it “nice”. Cut their noses off to spite their faces.

Just to catch people up it was voted down 3-2 by city council last night making the developers go back to drawing board

Does this give any hope in bringing back the golf course?

I have a feeling the residents are going to ultimately come to regret not embracing the proposed plan and fighting so hard against it. They just cannot accept that something is going to go there. Now it’ll just end up being a less refined something with the developer meeting the zoning and saying to heck with it in making it “nice”. Cut their noses off to spite their faces.

Spot on. Fight against a good proposal and will most likely end up with something much worse now.


Does this give any hope in bringing back the golf course?

Unless there is someone out there that wants to lose money operating a golf course, I would say no. This doesnt change the fact that a golf course will never come back here.

I have a feeling the residents are going to ultimately come to regret not embracing the proposed plan and fighting so hard against it. They just cannot accept that something is going to go there. Now it’ll just end up being a less refined something with the developer meeting the zoning and saying to heck with it in making it “nice”. Cut their noses off to spite their faces.
At Traditions, the neighborhood assn keeps the old course area mowed and kept. They still have the cart paths so it is actually a nice natural looking walking park. It isn’t a manicured golf course, but is more private and natural. It doesn’t have to be dire as you predict.

At Traditions, the neighborhood assn keeps the old course area mowed and kept. They still have the cart paths so it is actually a nice natural looking walking park. It isn’t a manicured golf course, but is more private and natural. It doesn’t have to be dire as you predict.

Will the Coffee Creek nbhd assoc have the money to pay well over a million $ to buy this property and then maintain it? unlikely. This seemed like a really good and reasonable proposal and they said no.

Similar to the Spring Creek lifestyle center that was proposed. Amazing upscale mixed use proposal and NIMBYs said no. Now they are more likely to get discount department stores and boring chain restaurants instead.

Do the developers have the option to file suit in District Court to overturn the City Council?

I hope they can overturn this vote.

I figured this was going happen. Edmond follows its status quo. There’s just some force in this town that stops any new truly unique development from happening. Apart from some smaller projects, every project that seems to get built is just more bland strip malls and garden style office buildings.

I have said this before on this forum, and this isn’t a particular dog on Edmond, but the OKC area in general. The OKC metro has got to be one of the biggest cookie cutter cities in the world.

This development along with Spring Creek and 18 on Park would have been truly unique developments that would added tons of character to the area yet those get shot down. For some reason a building like Uptown Grocery is seen as a win. Shame.

Hopefully some sense comes around to the council members in Edmond. But I wouldn’t get my hopes about this development. As I said, I’d love to see it. It much more than sustainable than what is there now.

https://kfor.com/2019/10/29/proposed-coffee-creek-development-passes-first-hurdle/

Well congratulations to the idiots who opposed the original proposal. The housing is coming whether they like it or not. That means more cars and more traffic. The difference is with the first proposal they would have been able to walk and live a healthier lifestyle having shops and stores right nearby. Now a car will be required with no alternative and the shops that would have been located here will be further away contributing to more sprawl and traffic. I love it!

Well congratulations to the idiots who opposed the original proposal. The housing is coming whether they like it or not. That means more cars and more traffic. The difference is with the first proposal they would have been able to walk and live a healthier lifestyle having shops and stores right nearby. Now a car will be required with no alternative and the shops that would have been located here will be further away contributing to more sprawl and traffic. I love it!

Added traffic, kids safety, overcrowding schools and harm property values. All the same old arguments that actually dont hold any water. The new traffic and possible Edmond students will be negligible. One new decent sized restaurant would create as much traffic as these homes would. I'd think new streets and homes is much better than an overgrown non-existent golf course.

^^^ +1

I know some here are going to take this message as non-constructive criticism but I love Edmond and want to see it do better. I was raised there and it’s my hometown but I will never understand why many there act like it is some premier community. I guess by the state you could make that argument but it’s aesthetics are really nothing to write home about and definitely not it’s infrastructure. It basically has the same bland four lane undivided streets like most of OKC and the shopping centers are hardly upscale. Though Edmond has its charms, there is a mentality I’ve noticed on many levels not the least of which is what always seems to be publicized in articles that love to exploit the NIMBYism in the town.

In the Edmond sun article, it quoted a guy a saying “this would make sense in Denton, Texas but I’ll be damned if that flies in Edmond,” or something to that tune. Smh

If anything property values will increase as long as this is done the right way. Community input is vital in ensuring the redevelopment of the golf course will be done correctly and in an upscale manner. But the shaking of costs and hesitance to change will only further disconnect communication from the developer.

Redevelopment of the golf course??? Thought the golf course was gone for good.

Redevelopment of the golf course??? Thought the golf course was gone for good.


I think he means all of the cookie cutter McMansions soon to be built on the existing land that use to be the golf course.

No McMansions with those lot sizes.

No McMansions with those lot sizes.

And, to be fair, there's not really even any McMansions in Edmond.

Piedmont or the Southside, sure, yeah, but not Edmond.

And, to be fair, there's not really even any McMansions in Edmond.

Piedmont or the Southside, sure, yeah, but not Edmond.
What do you consider a McMansion? There are 32 properties currently listed for sale in Edmond of more than $1 Million, and many of those up to $3 million.

There are a number of gated communities in Edmond that are filled with quite large and expensive homes. I would probably consider homes from 7,500 sqft to 14,000 sqft as mansions. Now, they are mostly pretty elaborate designs, so they may not fit the definition of MCMANSIONS.

^^^ +1

I know some here are going to take this message as non-constructive criticism but I love Edmond and want to see it do better. I was raised there and it’s my hometown but I will never understand why many there act like it is some premier community. I guess by the state you could make that argument but it’s aesthetics are really nothing to write home about and definitely not it’s infrastructure. It basically has the same bland four lane undivided streets like most of OKC and the shopping centers are hardly upscale. Though Edmond has its charms, there is a mentality I’ve noticed on many levels not the least of which is what always seems to be publicized in articles that love to exploit the NIMBYism in the town.

In the Edmond sun article, it quoted a guy a saying “this would make sense in Denton, Texas but I’ll be damned if that flies in Edmond,” or something to that tune. Smh

Did you ever stop to consider that people in Edmond like it the way it is and that's why things are done the way they are? I know you have some very specific opinions on how development should go, but I am just going to say that just because you are a fan doesn't mean it's just a plug and play way to make Edmond better for the people that live there. Most people that live in Edmond pick it because it is Edmond. Period. Your opinion of better doesn't necessarily seem better to everyone. Just sayin.

Now, with regards to this particular issue, the folks that live in Coffee Creek aren't going to like anything other than a golf course. That's why they bought where they did and anything other than that will be a no for them. So, this is a little different than the normal "not in my Edmond" mindset.

^^^^ in other news people have their own opinions... who knew. Obviously I’m aware of this.

Did you ever stop to consider that people in Edmond like it the way it is and that's why things are done the way they are? I know you have some very specific opinions on how development should go, but I am just going to say that just because you are a fan doesn't mean it's just a plug and play way to make Edmond better for the people that live there. Most people that live in Edmond pick it because it is Edmond. Period. Your opinion of better doesn't necessarily seem better to everyone. Just sayin.

Now, with regards to this particular issue, the folks that live in Coffee Creek aren't going to like anything other than a golf course. That's why they bought where they did and anything other than that will be a no for them. So, this is a little different than the normal "not in my Edmond" mindset.
I want to expand on this a bit as the premise of your post is malarkey, IMO. Assuming a community shouldn’t strive to be better and change is malarkey. If you were just whining about my opinion then that’s another thing. My opinions here are obviously my own and having said that I think it is important to realize there is a healthy desire in Edmond for change. People and developers see that and it is old mentality that is holding the city back.

But by all means keep defending the status quo. I figure it’s a matter of time if OKC keeps booming that a master planned community pops up and does it right. There’s just no way to push any meaningful change with your logic as everyone would be told “no because people in Edmond moved there for the way it is.”

But I’m not naive and I understand everyone has their own ideas about how to make a community better. I’m not god nor a dictator so I have no ways of forcing my views to become reality even I wanted to. Edmond doesn’t seem to be changing all that much other than a few spots and steady growth but that status quo of endless strip malls and cookie cutter subdivisions remains with few exceptions. At least Edmond is making an effort to build divided roads unlike OKC.

The residential development passed city council.

https://kfor.com/2019/11/12/developers-get-approval-for-plan-to-build-on-golf-course/

https://www.edmondsun.com/news/coffee-creek-lawsuit-dismissed-confidential-settlement-reached/article_18f12518-536a-11ea-93b8-9f27b6dc42cd.html?fbclid=IwAR0mQChHvArQzylmaEsTSbf EWC2V0PczODEq9D2FnwSb45Jugcj7v20wP30#utm_campaign= blox&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

I hope the commercial plan is still happening. The initial plans looked really cool and no doubt would have been a smash hit for Edmond just like Spring Creek expansion would have been.

I think the low activity of homes on the market is an indication that most in the neighborhood probably support this. They would much rather have services and goods like this than a crap golf course. Plus, many of those holes can't really be built so there will still be parks and trails running through there.

This is getting ready to go in front of the city council again, at least there city planning notice signs up. Curious what the new plan is going to be.

I think the low activity of homes on the market is an indication that most in the neighborhood probably support this. They would much rather have services and goods like this than a crap golf course. Plus, many of those holes can't really be built so there will still be parks and trails running through there.

Coffee Creek was far from a crap golf course and if you think people that bought in a golf course community, especially on a golf course lot, wouldn't prefer a golf course behind their house rather than a residential/commercial development, then I don't know what to tell you. I'm sure many there are resigned to it since they clearly don't have any control over it now anyway, but I can promise you the majority of Coffee Creek owners are still pissed/heart broken that their golf course is gone. I get the feeling that not many of you commenting on this are avid golfers or ever lived on a country club/golf course community.

Say what you will, but when I last played there it was $16 with cart on Golf Now for 18 holes at 2pm. Course was in horrific shape. This was a few years before it shut down. I also grew up on a course not too far from here. It might have been nice in the beginning but it just didn't hold up in the long run. Coffee Creek did this neighborhood and itself a disservice when they never changed the zoning of the golf course to Agriculture from residential. Looking at the master plan I still stand by my comments. Very few houses will have someone directly behind them. Most will have some sort of buffer where trails run through. A good amount will just be open space where the course was.

20 houses have sold in the last year. 5 are under contract. 5 are For Sale. Homes are still moving and selling, although not a ton. If this new proposal was a huge con for buyers no one would be looking in here.

Say what you will, but when I last played there it was $16 with cart on Golf Now for 18 holes at 2pm. Course was in horrific shape. This was a few years before it shut down. I also grew up on a course not too far from here. It might have been nice in the beginning but it just didn't hold up in the long run. Coffee Creek did this neighborhood and itself a disservice when they never changed the zoning of the golf course to Agriculture from residential. Looking at the master plan I still stand by my comments. Very few houses will have someone directly behind them. Most will have some sort of buffer where trails run through. A good amount will just be open space where the course was.

20 houses have sold in the last year. 5 are under contract. 5 are For Sale. Homes are still moving and selling, although not a ton. If this new proposal was a huge con for buyers no one would be looking in here.

Yeah Mike is spot on...no one who bought a house to live on the Golf Course is excited about this proposal and won't be about anything that isn't a golf course.

Let me be clear. I am not saying they shouldn't be mad about losing a golf course. I am saying that what is being presented as the development is probably best case scenario for a crap situation.

Let me be clear. I am not saying they shouldn't be mad about losing a golf course. I am saying that what is being presented as the development is probably best case scenario for a crap situation.

Fair enough

Signs from the dump all over the land that it’s going to be auctioned off. Hopefully the residents can purchase the land.

Not just this development, but Edmond will very soon gain a very bad reputation amongst developers and cause it to loose out on many high end developers to OKC. Oh well.

Not just this development, but Edmond will very soon gain a very bad reputation amongst developers and cause it to loose out on many high end developers to OKC. Oh well.

I think Edmond has lots of people with money, and a finite amount of land. They can afford to be NIMBY and difficult.

I think Edmond has lots of people with money, and a finite amount of land. They can afford to be NIMBY and difficult.Its not about whether they can afford it, it has to do with developing a desirable community. Edmond is desirable sure, but given the standards of Oklahoma it isn’t hard to see why. Edmond is going to loose out on future, quality developments if it keeps pushing away any developer that proposes something other than a cookie cutter development and point to a handful of downtown developments doesn’t cut it.

Press release:
********

Former Coffee Creek Golf Course to be Offered at Auction
The Heritage at Coffee Creek: A Mixed-Use Community

EDMOND, OK – Formerly known as Coffee Creek Golf Course, 189+/- acres will be offered at auction on Thursday, October 29, 2020. The Heritage at Coffee Creek: A Mixed-Use Community will be offered in six parcels allowing bidders to purchase all or part of the property with tracts ranging from 5+/- to 73+/- acres. The PUD has been approved by Edmond City Council and is ready for developers to begin work.

The PUD breaks the 189+/- acre site into four districts including: Mixed-Use Town Center Development, Mixed-Use Neighborhood Retail and Office Park Development, Medium Density Residential Development, and Traditional Residential Development. Open space and recreational areas are also a part of the plan.

“We have worked extremely hard to create a plan for a mixed-use community that the citizens of Edmond will enjoy and benefit from for years to come. The PUD has been approved by the Edmond City Council and is ready for developers to begin work. Although we’ve had some unforeseen circumstances in our personal lives and aren’t going to be able to see our vision come to fruition, our hope is that other developers and builders will take this incredible opportunity and capitalize on it,” said Kyle Copeland, Double Eagle Development, LLC, who purchased the land in 2017.

In reference to location at the southeast corner of Kelly Ave and Coffee Creek Rd., the Seller remarked, “There are few pieces of development land within the Edmond city limits with this kind of potential and we see a lot of value in that. This land is in a great central location near shopping, medical facilities, office complexes, schools, and parks. For those working in Edmond and Oklahoma City or have kids in Edmond Public Schools or Deer Creek Public Schools, this location is ideal. What an incredible opportunity to continue to build the Edmond community.”

A PUD encourages the efficient use of land resources and promotes innovation in planning and building for residential and mixed-use projects. This PUD supports the growth in Edmond for residential and office space as well as offering green space for relaxation and recreational activities.

United Country - Buford Resources Real Estate & Auction is representing the Seller. “We are excited for the City of Edmond, Coffee Creek residents, and the builders and developers interested in this property. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to purchase, what we’ve heard from numerous area developers, ‘one of the last pieces of great development land’ in Edmond. We believe this mixed-use community will be an asset to the city of Edmond and bring tremendous quality of life to those who are involved,” said Craig Buford, Broker.

The live auction will take place at the Hilton Garden Inn and Edmond Conference Center, 2833 Conference Dr., Edmond, OK 73034, on Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 10:00 AM. Interested parties can view the PUD, video, interactive map, and additional information via the property page on the real estate and auction company’s website, BufordResources.com. You can also contact Craig Buford at 405-833-9499 or cbuford@bufordresources.com.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coffeecreek1.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_u-KQOitpo

Now is the time to put up or shut up. These folks were so vocal about nothing being built so either they band together and buy the property or understand they live in a major city that is expanding and the current use wasn’t working and developers are charity cases. So if they can’t or don’t want to purchase the property then they need to work with the next developer instead of screaming no at everything.

Now is the time to put up or shut up. These folks were so vocal about nothing being built so either they band together and buy the property or understand they live in a major city that is expanding and the current use wasn’t working and developers are charity cases. So if they can’t or don’t want to purchase the property then they need to work with the next developer instead of screaming no at everything.

I'm going to guess that you aren't a golfer. lol.

At the time of the previous sale, the price was pretty low and to me was very suspicious. The residents could have easily come up with the type of money that this was sold for AND it was a fully maintained, running golf course. Now, at auction, I would guess the price will be significantly higher at auction and even if the price was doable, now there will be pretty high costs involved in reclaiming this land into a mature, working golf course.

As for the last sale, from the way I remember it was sold pretty much in secret, for a very low number, and just so happened to coincide with new ownership and a complete renovation/rebranding of Fairfax to Golf Club of Edmond which is just around the corner. Now, the owners will auction this and I can't imagine they won't get more than the low number they paid previously. Again, just the way I remember it.

I believe I had read that the golf course wasn’t doing well which led to the closure. A couple other courses around the city have shut down. I personally enjoy golf but I haven’t golfed in awhile. There are talks in LA of shutting down several courses and one of them in south central area is shutting down and being repurposed.

Golf, along with American football, is a sport that doesn’t seem to be growing much.

I get that it’s a bummer to move to a house on a golf course and have the course shut down. Perhaps a developer should come with a price to rebuild the course and increase HOA fees if the neighborhood wants it. I’m not sure how that would work. Otherwise what was proposed looked pretty nice and it’s a shame it didn’t work out.

I believe I had read that the golf course wasn’t doing well which led to the closure. A couple other courses around the city have shut down. I personally enjoy golf but I haven’t golfed in awhile. There are talks in LA of shutting down several courses and one of them in south central area is shutting down and being repurposed.

Golf, along with American football, is a sport that doesn’t seem to be growing much.

I get that it’s a bummer to move to a house on a golf course and have the course shut down. Perhaps a developer should come with a price to rebuild the course and increase HOA fees if the neighborhood wants it. I’m not sure how that would work. Otherwise what was proposed looked pretty nice and it’s a shame it didn’t work out.
Selling lots based on being on a golf course, and then later closing the course is classic bait and switch. It's a con.

This happened also at Traditions. Got extra money for the lots based on them backing up to a beautiful golf course.... and now they are looking into another back yard. Some developers have no shame.

People who buy in golf neighborhood need to make sure there are restrictions before they buy. It needs to be owned by the neighborhood, not by the developers.

I agree it is a bad deal but then again if there isn’t a promise the golf course will stay then that’s on the person who bought the house. Coffee Creek isn’t exactly a poor neighborhood. A bunch of the neighbors should band together and purchase it.

A lot of these golf course developments were developed under the assumption that price per rounds would go significantly up ($100/round) in the early 2000's. Unfortunately, that never came to fruition because the market was flooded with new golf courses shortly thereafter. Municipal golf courses have basically run private (owned) courses into the ground. Municipal courses have the ability to invest amounts of money into them without ever expecting a profit. Private courses have to fold because they can't compete with the amenities of municipal courses.

I don't blame the developers. The golf business will ultimately end up in two tiers, high-end private courses and municipal courses. No one will likely be able to make money on a golf course like Coffee Creek again.

I wonder about River Oaks.

I was out there a few weekends ago on a very nice Saturday and the course and clubhouse seemed dead.

It's a very pretty setting.

Selling lots based on being on a golf course, and then later closing the course is classic bait and switch. It's a con.

This happened also at Traditions. Got extra money for the lots based on them backing up to a beautiful golf course.... and now they are looking into another back yard. Some developers have no shame.

People who buy in golf neighborhood need to make sure there are restrictions before they buy. It needs to be owned by the neighborhood, not by the developers.

Con is a little strong, imo. In the case of Coffee Creek, the course was losing money hand over fist. But it was built back in 1991 and operated for decades. That would be one heck of a long con.

I wonder about River Oaks.

I was out there a few weekends ago on a very nice Saturday and the course and clubhouse seemed dead.

It's a very pretty setting.

membership is still strong and that club is in very good shape ..

A lot of these golf course developments were developed under the assumption that price per rounds would go significantly up ($100/round) in the early 2000's. Unfortunately, that never came to fruition because the market was flooded with new golf courses shortly thereafter. Municipal golf courses have basically run private (owned) courses into the ground. Municipal courses have the ability to invest amounts of money into them without ever expecting a profit. Private courses have to fold because they can't compete with the amenities of municipal courses.

I don't blame the developers. The golf business will ultimately end up in two tiers, high-end private courses and municipal courses. No one will likely be able to make money on a golf course like Coffee Creek again.

The issue isn’t that the golf course is a good business, but that the developers use the course to sell lots for more than they otherwise could BECAUSE of the expectation the course will be their backyards. The developers are free to pocket that extra profit and then double cross the homeowners and close the feature that earned them the profits in the first place. Classic bait and switch.

The "bait and switch" argument is a "woe is me" perspective. Is it "bait and switch" if you buy a house that backs up to a field and Walmart later gets it re-zoned? I don't think so.

Buyers have every opportunity to understand what surrounds their property and who owns the corresponding interests. The developer golf course issue is old news on the left and right coasts. Hand-holding can only go so far....

Ok, so we can bet it will never be a golf course again, now what should be done with the land?

It’s Edmond... so bet on typical cheap cookie cutter housing and strip malls.

I agree it is a bad deal but then again if there isn’t a promise the golf course will stay then that’s on the person who bought the house. Coffee Creek isn’t exactly a poor neighborhood. A bunch of the neighbors should band together and purchase it.

Lol. You are very quick to make everything easy with other people's money. If this was a Walmart with a sea of parking plopped in downtown OKC to replace Cox Center, for example, you'd be losing your mind. And, then being told that if you don't like it you should just buy the Cox Center to keep it from happening. See how ridiculous that sounds?

This isn't as cut and dry as you make it sound. And, you completely ignored my point that the home owners said they could have bought it for the low-ball price it was sold for previously, when it was still a developed golf course. That doesn't mean it will be sold now for the same price and it sure doesn't include the significant cost it would now need to make it a golf course again like it was at the time of the low-ball sale.

The home owners have every right to be pissed and the answer isn't, well sucks for you "rich" guys just buy it yourself. That's extremely naive, and in this case probably more about you having a history of hating Edmond and their ilk anyway so being an urbanist you couldn't care less about a golf course disappearing there anyway. But, that's just a guess based on your long history of posting on this board.

Lol okay Mike. Think what you want. It makes no difference to me. Zoning laws exists for a reason. Your comparison to the cox center site is absurd given it lies nearby the densest area in the entire state and has strict zoning and design review laws that affect its outcome.

Even if they would have bought it for the “low balled” price would that have meant they would be able to pay for the maintenance?

Anyways, we are where we are. What do you propose? Stop bitching. Do something about it. Talk to you elected officials. I don’t have the information you have but I know this is prime real estate and what was proposed was unique to Edmond. I also know golf courses are shutting down left and right in this country. I also know that Edmond is flush with cookie cutter retail malls.

So let’s see what happens then. If the neighborhood doesn’t want to pony up the money than someone that does will develop what they buy. That isn’t me “making things easy with other peoples money” that is me speaking the truth about this situation.

Just out of curiosity, are you a home owner here?

Lol okay Mike. Think what you want. It makes no difference to me. Zoning laws exists for a reason. Your comparison to the cox center site is absurd given it lies nearby the densest area in the entire state and has strict zoning and design review laws that affect its outcome.

Even if they would have bought it for the “low balled” price would that have meant they would be able to pay for the maintenance?

Anyways, we are where we are. What do you propose? Stop bitching. Do something about it. Talk to you elected officials. I don’t have the information you have but I know this is prime real estate and what was proposed was unique to Edmond. I also know golf courses are shutting down left and right in this country. I also know that Edmond is flush with cookie cutter retail malls.

So let’s see what happens then. If the neighborhood doesn’t want to pony up the money than someone that does will develop what they buy. That isn’t me “making things easy with other peoples money” that is me speaking the truth about this situation.

Just out of curiosity, are you a home owner here?

You completely missed the point and actually proved my comment about your feelings on Edmond. So, I'll chalk it up to naive.

I do not own in Coffee Creek. My folks own at Golf Club of Edmond/Fairfax. And, if the green behind their house was turned into anything other than a green, we'd be as pissed at you would be if they put a Walmart with a huge parking lot in the middle of downtown, no matter how much you deflect to avoid the fact.

The "bait and switch" argument is a "woe is me" perspective. Is it "bait and switch" if you buy a house that backs up to a field and Walmart later gets it re-zoned? I don't think so.

Buyers have every opportunity to understand what surrounds their property and who owns the corresponding interests. The developer golf course issue is old news on the left and right coasts. Hand-holding can only go so far....
WOW. What a classic bad comparison. Zero logic and zero empathy for buyers of property.
Hand holding? LOL. May as well say that if you are capable of getting the better of a buyer and it technically isn’t illegal, go for it. Great business ethics. Winning is everything, right? Profit over ethics is strong. Ethics is weakness. Is that correct? Make developers great again.

It’s Edmond... so bet on typical cheap cookie cutter housing and strip malls.

What a lazy characterization. You apparently know little about Edmond as a whole.

What a lazy characterization. You apparently know little about Edmond as a whole.

He has hated Edmond for as long as I can remember because they allow businesses with parking lots and don't adhere strictly to urbanist, walkable design. I remember when the new Walmart was announced for Harrah and he was going on and on about how horrible the decision was because of the non-urbanist design and the sea of parking. Lol. He hates anything that isn't urban and because he's too young he's apparently incapable of actually appreciating anything except what he likes.

The fact is, a lot of people don't like people that live on a country club or a golf course because they think, "well they are rich so who cares." What they don't stop to think about is that many of those homeowners are likely older folks that have worked hard their entire life to build equity in their homes, make some sacrifices and tough decisions over the years, and finally get their chance to own their forever retirement home on a golf course. It's the dream of a lot of people that are in retirement age right now, and it doesn't make them rich or able to just write a check and buy a golf course. I'm many cases this home and it's equity is not only their comfortable place to retire, but also the inheritance they are leaving their children. And, what has happened here is 100% legal, but it's a horrible thing that happened to those homeowners that this home means so much to. The whole world doesn't have the millennial attitude of, well it's been 2 years so it's time to move and get a different job and get all new stuff. Golf course is gone so just move.... That's not how this works.

But yeah, screw them and their problems because they are "rich" and live in Edmond.

You completely missed the point and actually proved my comment about your feelings on Edmond. So, I'll chalk it up to naive.

I do not own in Coffee Creek. My folks own at Golf Club of Edmond/Fairfax. And, if the green behind their house was turned into anything other than a green, we'd be as pissed at you would be if they put a Walmart with a huge parking lot in the middle of downtown, no matter how much you deflect to avoid the fact.


What a lazy characterization. You apparently know little about Edmond as a whole.
It’s not a cheap characterization at all and you are obviously with this city being a cookie cutter as possible. If it was so cheap than it should be easy for you to refute what I said about Edmond but you can’t.

I grew up here. I will likely buy a home in Edmond within the next 2-5 years. You don’t know anything about how I feel about Edmond other than the fact that I’m frustrated with its small town mentality that leads to horrible traffic and endless cookie cutter developments voting down real game changing developments for the city.

And I don’t want to hear about a handful of developments downtown renders what’s happening the majority of the city elsewhere irrelevant because it doesn’t.

As far as the coffee creek development goes, Mike. I’m not going to keep running circles with you. As I said, I love Edmond as it’s my hometown. I advocate for it all the time and write to councilmembers left and right on suggestions and ideas to make the city better. I am harsh on it often because it frustrates me so much some of the developments that have been pushed away. Rover just loves to run to Edmonds rescue and make the same repetitive statements every time someone criticizes Edmond.

I can name tons of great things about Edmond. But the topic were on it is one of Edmonds downsides. Assuming my opinion of Edmond based on this incident is a lazy characterization.