This property is now for sale.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/3700nwalker.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/3700nwalkera.jpg


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Someone let Wayne Coyne know so he can turn it into an alien welcoming center.

There is a growing list of church properties for sale. Others I've noticed recently are Northwest Christian at the corner of 30th and May and Open Arms near the intersection of Penn and 30th.

Wasn't this part of (or the same property) that the Humphrey's tried to develop awhile ago?

Any chance the Humphreys get involved? Didn't they have a pretty sweet Crown Heights proposal sometime back that got NIMBYd?

I do not want to see this church go anywhere, but the rest of that property needs to be developed.

Yes, that was Grant Humphreys that previously attempted to develop the undeveloped part of this property.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/3700nwalkere.jpg

Yes, that was Grant Humphreys that previously attempted to develop the undeveloped part of this property.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/3700nwalkere.jpg

I'd LOVE to see this come back! But he seems to not care about anything outside of Carlton Landing.

Wonder what will become of the Jewel Box Theatre?

I'd LOVE to see this come back! But he seems to not care about anything outside of Carlton Landing.


Duuuuude...Do the words, "Wheeler District" ring a bell?

Duuuuude...Do the words, "Wheeler District" ring a bell?

Yeah, but that is mostly Blair. Grant is focused on CL.

At 8.2 million asking price, whatever goes there will have to be dense and intense. Good luck getting the nearby neighborhoods to go along with that.

Yes, the Crown Heights and Edgemere Park neighborhoods are well-organized and had a lot to say about the previous Humphreys proposal.

At 8.2 million asking price, whatever goes there will have to be dense and intense. Good luck getting the nearby neighborhoods to go along with that.

It would all need to be rezoned to PUD, but with all the changes that have been made in Midtown/AA/Plaza to an extent, the neighbors may be more excited about a more walkable community in addition to what they have on Western. Like you said, the development will need to be dense and expensive ($100mm+), but having a grocery store, residential, etc. in that area may be more appealing 8 years later.

Duuuuude...Do the words, "Wheeler District" ring a bell?

I thought that was Blair and that Grant was focused on Carlton Landing? My apologies if I'm mistaken.

This sale makes me sad although not unexpected. I am a associate member at First Christian and went to many services there in years past. Don Alexander was a great pastor. Plus our company wired up the carillon bells up in the tower many years ago. We have a great historical file on the property's architecture in our archives.

How does this affect the Trinity school?

People in OKC be like

Did someone say iconic?
https://bdn-data.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2012/08/10047161_H8231703-600x359.jpg

I was too lazy to incorporate it into the photo

I thought that was Blair and that Grant was focused on Carlton Landing? My apologies if I'm mistaken.


I think you had it right and it is me that owes an apology. For being a jerkus. A jerkus maximus.

^^^^^^^^^^
Despite the fact that Grant is the face of CL and Blair is the face of Wheeler, both have had involvement with each (and certainly, so has Kirk). That said, Grant actually LIVES at CL full-time, and anyone who has visited will quickly realize why he devotes most of his time to it.

I visited for the first time just last week, and it's pretty much impossible to communicate in words - or even in pictures - the scale of this project. It is truly a full-blown TOWN they are building; NOT simply a housing addition. It will take a generation to complete, and although I'm sure there will be other projects for Grant it will be no disappointment if that town ends up being seen as his life's work. I was pretty blown away by where they are at this point, and they have really only scratched the surface of what the town will become.

Visiting CL only made me more excited for Wheeler, where Blair and the family development company will be applying many of the lessons they have learned at Carlton. Wheeler will be better for this experience.

BTW - and I have no idea whether they'd be interested in this property and would actually guess not due to their current very large projects - if the Humphreys family took this on today I would expect the plans would change significantly from what is shown above. Reference the original plans for he airpark as an example of why I would expect this to be the case. Their approach to land development has evolved greatly since that project was proposed.

I think you had it right and it is me that owes an apology. For being a jerkus. A jerkus maximus.

No problem, Doctor!

People in OKC be like

Did someone say iconic?
https://bdn-data.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2012/08/10047161_H8231703-600x359.jpg

I was too lazy to incorporate it into the photo

I got bored... Photoshop is fun.

http://i.imgur.com/r3Y7vKM.jpg

I got bored... Photoshop is fun.

http://i.imgur.com/r3Y7vKM.jpg
LOLZ! That's hilarious!

I hope that somehow at least the sanctuary/dome can be saved as part of whatever mixed use development eventually goes there. And it would be great if the development could use some of the architecture for inspiration, such as the flat stonework on the walls.

I got bored... Photoshop is fun.

http://i.imgur.com/r3Y7vKM.jpg
Haha thank you sir! You win the internet today!!! ������

The dome could serve as covered parking. Just clear out the sanctuary, open up that wall of windows, and drive right in! That way you keep the icon in place but provides guests with a bit of shelter. Maybe build a short multi-level parking deck under there!

One could probably turn that entire church structure into retail if they were so inclined. I'd hope they'd keep the dome intact somehow, but who knows? That piece of land would seem pretty valuable.

There's an upscale strip center (not quite a lifestyle center) in Fort Worth that incorporates an historic Community Chapel that is operated by a non-profit and was there before the shopping center was built. It's used for weddings and other events. Maybe something like that could be done.

There's an upscale strip center (not quite a lifestyle center) in Fort Worth that incorporates an historic Community Chapel that is operated by a non-profit and was there before the shopping center was built. It's used for weddings and other events. Maybe something like that could be done.

Is this the same one where Central Market is?

Is this the same one where Central Market is?

Yes, that's the one I'm referring to.

Any word on what's going to happen to this Church? Think it will get torn down for some big-box style development

Any word on what's going to happen to this Church? Think it will get torn down for some big-box style development

I don't want to say too much, as I am not sure about real estate type stuff (as in when is it ok to say stuff). Nothing is final and the process has just started, so take it with a grain of salt, but much of what I'm hearing leads me to personally believe that the structure itself is safe, and at least one potential new use would maintain its legacy in a positive way.

Hopefully that's vague enough... ;)

I don't want to say too much, as I am not sure about real estate type stuff (as in when is it ok to say stuff). Nothing is final and the process has just started, so take it with a grain of salt, but much of what I'm hearing leads me to personally believe that the structure itself is safe, and at least one potential new use would maintain its legacy in a positive way.

Hopefully that's vague enough... ;)

How about a brewery and taproom? :)

I found out some details on this over the weekend that is NOT good news for any of us. The sale comes from the issue that the building has an insane amount of asbestos in it. The entire dome is reported to be made out of the stuff. So i'm thinking we're pretty much going to call this place gone and the cleanup/demo is going to probably be slow and methodical and add a lot of cost to whomever wants the land.

The Disciples of Christ regional office that's on the same land, is planning on moving. I understand there is a school in the far north end of the lot. Not sure what will come of that.

Fantastic - i'm hoping your information is right on this and mine is wrong. My info is church to church info, so i'm not within that congregation to know exact details.

I found out some details on this over the weekend that is NOT good news for any of us. The sale comes from the issue that the building has an insane amount of asbestos in it. The entire dome is reported to be made out of the stuff. So i'm thinking we're pretty much going to call this place gone and the cleanup/demo is going to probably be slow and methodical and add a lot of cost to whomever wants the land.

The Disciples of Christ regional office that's on the same land, is planning on moving. I understand there is a school in the far north end of the lot. Not sure what will come of that.

Fantastic - i'm hoping your information is right on this and mine is wrong. My info is church to church info, so i'm not within that congregation to know exact details.

It seems to me that this is the beginning of a narrative to try to justify tearing it down. The dome itself is made out of thin shell concrete, not asbestos. I would not be surprised if mechanical rooms and such may have ductwork and thermal systems insulated with it. However, the majority of the surfaces throughout the complex are hard surfaces such as concrete, steel, granite, marble, etc. I have had to run wiring throughout and am careful about the environments that I crawl around in. This sounds suspicious to me.

And maybe this is a tactic by the undisclosed parties not just to justify tearing it down but to help scare off potential contenders and force a reduction in price. Widespread rumors about rampant asbestos would be a highly effective narrative in achieving that goal.

Asbestos is only dangerous if disturbed.

Even if the dome contains it, that wouldn't matter unless you were going to tear it down or substantially remodel it in some way.

Asbestos is only dangerous if disturbed.

Even if the dome contains it, that wouldn't matter unless you were going to tear it down or substantially remodel it in some way.

This is what I've always heard too.

Tearing down the sanctuary of 1st Christian would be nearly criminal. Most people only know it from the outside but the reall wonder is inside. As you might expect, because of the dome and acoustics, a microphone is unnecessary. However what most people don't know is the unique air conditioning system.

Along the west side of the building is a pool that has cooling fountains. There are ducts that feed water into ducts that run under the old part of the building that are significant in distance. Air and water both circulate through the duct system and the air is cooled by evaporation. Even on hot summer days, a/c isn't needed.

I know of no other sytem like it. I went there and worked there a while and I dont recall there being asbestos. I recall a lot of blown texture but my understanding is the dome is concrete.

Blown, or any surface texturing are always suspected ACM. Don't know if anyone has sampled and analyzed. Further, asbestos was commonly added to concrete products before the late 70's. That said, if it was in concrete it should not be friable ACM and therefore unregulated by the State of Oklahoma. My impression is that the presence of ACM will not have much influence in the decision to demo or not demo this building. ACM is typically a much bigger deal when the building is being renovated for future occupancy.

I found out some details on this over the weekend that is NOT good news for any of us. The sale comes from the issue that the building has an insane amount of asbestos in it. The entire dome is reported to be made out of the stuff. So i'm thinking we're pretty much going to call this place gone and the cleanup/demo is going to probably be slow and methodical and add a lot of cost to whomever wants the land.

The Disciples of Christ regional office that's on the same land, is planning on moving. I understand there is a school in the far north end of the lot. Not sure what will come of that.

Fantastic - i'm hoping your information is right on this and mine is wrong. My info is church to church info, so i'm not within that congregation to know exact details.

I can pretty much guarantee that asbestos had nothing to do with the sale. The fact that the congregation is down to 50-60 members does.

There was a bad split in the membership years ago that, I think, had something to do with the long time pastor. It never recovered from that split.

There was a bad split in the membership years ago that, I think, had something to do with the long time pastor. It never recovered from that split.

There was a lot of politics, and a lot of bad decisions.

Recall seeing this egg shell shaped structure in many encyclopedias in the 60s; it was originally referred to as Oklahoma City's Church of Tomorrow.


http://okchomesellers.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/2011_06_09_08_50_18-640x403.jpg
First Christian Church (Space-Age Architecture), aka the Church of Tomorrow (1956)

There was a lot of politics, and a lot of bad decisions.

That's too bad. Disciple's churches typically have a smaller congregation anyway. I'm a member of one, so I know the struggle of keeping relevant in times when the flashy churches seem to draw people away in droves. And in the Baptist dominated south, it's somewhat difficult given the pretty heavy differences in views. To be honest, i dont think most people actually know what the DoC's views are, but often get intermingled with Methodism. And I'd say they're pretty similar. Having grown up Methodist and switching later, i didn't feel like my world changed or anything. Now had i gone from Methodist to Church of Christ or something....yeah that would have been a shock lol.

It's always a shame when politics gets in the middle of a church and causes a struggle. It's especially troubling if the pastor contributes to it. ESPECIALLY a long-term one (i'm not speculating on this case, i dont know squat about what happened). Multi-generational churches seems to have a lot of issues with things like that because of the conflicting views between the ages of members. I feel extremely lucky that my congregation has been able to grow and change (and even move locations) to keep relevant. And location is a part of this story that FCCOKC would probably never recover from. The socio-economics of an area tie directly back to attendance and as the economics of an area trend down, so does attendance....the smaller ones tend to close...survival of the largest really. And for FCCOKC, even housing the regional office couldn't help it enough. The age of the congregation, im sure, was a major factor in this. I dont know the inside details, but it's a story told over and over, and it's very sad. Im concerned about what Refuge is going to do. At only a year old, it's a church within a church and won't make it if they dont get some help on the location.

https://newsok.com/article/5620075/okcs-jewel-box-theatre-faces-uncertain-future-as-first-christian-church-is-up-for-sale

End of an era for the Jewel Box Theatre inside the First Christian Church. Not sure how the church will finish the season without a production director, or what this means for the Jewel Box, but, as a longtime friend of Chuck and the Jewel Box, I'm sad to see his tenure end so unceremoniously.

If I had to guess, I'd say this is the last season of the Jewel Box in that building, but that's a completely uninformed guess. The church has no idea what work goes into producing a season of live theatre, nor do they have any interest in maintaining the standards they've had for the previous 61 years.

Are there any notable possible buyers? Is the price just too high?

It seems to me that this is the beginning of a narrative to try to justify tearing it down. The dome itself is made out of thin shell concrete, not asbestos. I would not be surprised if mechanical rooms and such may have ductwork and thermal systems insulated with it. However, the majority of the surfaces throughout the complex are hard surfaces such as concrete, steel, granite, marble, etc. I have had to run wiring throughout and am careful about the environments that I crawl around in. This sounds suspicious to me.

I used to go to that church and worked on the grounds as a kid. l don't recall talk of asbestos, even when kids painted the dome, but l've been about everywhere there and don't recall it. As for ductwork, it is as unique as anything you will ever see.

Outside the dome is a water pool with a fountain. Water from the pool is channeled into a tunnel system running under the dome section. The tunnel is large enough for a walkway and a channel for the water. Air is pumped through the tunnel and cools the dome segment via evaporation of the water in the tunnel like a huge swamp cooler. The water is then pumped back out into the pool for circulation. The tunnel zig zags a couple of hundred feet IIRC.and does a great job of providing a/c. This building should serve some historical or architectural significance and be preserved.

l would think a small professional company office of some sort would work best. Utilities for the rest of the classroom and Jewell Box are traditional.

Or maybe one of those TV churches. What a PR and civic duty coup to acquire this church and all thag valuable land.

Im surprised that Mr Tweed has been there that long. He was my sister's drama teacher at Jarman Jr High in MWC back in the early 90s. He had left by the time i got to Jarman a few years later. I remember him being pretty tough on the kids but he encouraged them to work with Jewel even back then. I went with my family up to the Jewel to meet him one day to look at costumes. All i really remember from that long ago is how weird it smelled in there. LOL.

Im surprised that Mr Tweed has been there that long. He was my sister's drama teacher at Jarman Jr High in MWC back in the early 90s. He had left by the time i got to Jarman a few years later. I remember him being pretty tough on the kids but he encouraged them to work with Jewel even back then. I went with my family up to the Jewel to meet him one day to look at costumes. All i really remember from that long ago is how weird it smelled in there. LOL.

Holy crap! I hadn't clicked on the link until I read your post. Mr. Tweed was one of my teachers in high school at Del City, mid-90s. Great guy. I had wondered what he was up to.

On a related note, I've had a hard time finding old teachers on Facebook. It's amazing how all my male teachers have the first name "Mister" and all my female teachers were named "Mrs".

Im surprised that Mr Tweed has been there that long. He was my sister's drama teacher at Jarman Jr High in MWC back in the early 90s. He had left by the time i got to Jarman a few years later. I remember him being pretty tough on the kids but he encouraged them to work with Jewel even back then. I went with my family up to the Jewel to meet him one day to look at costumes. All i really remember from that long ago is how weird it smelled in there. LOL.

That prop/costume room has always smelled weird. I went up there for the first time in about ten years a few months ago, and it had the same odor.

I think he left Jarman for Del City, but he didn't retire from teaching until recently (meaning the past 5-10 years, I think).

It's a cool and unique building for sure. That congregation just never caught up with the times. I recall I used to attend Youth Orchestra rehearsals there in the early/mid 90s in their youth building. I remember that it looked basically unused for 20 years prior. Nothing was new. There were a handful of memorial plaques on the wall for dead children. None were recent. A dying/dead youth program doesn't ever bode well for a church congregation.

The Church itself is a treasure, though the acoustics leave a lot to be desired.

I believe there was a bad internal feud with much of the congregation and the pastor who was there into the later 90s. That portion of the congregation left and it wasn't the same after.

That is correct. Don Alexander was the long time pastor there. He was a fantastic speaker. Things were pretty good there in the 80s with a strong childrens program, MDO, etc. It all came apart in the late 90s.

https://newsok.com/article/2719370/local-church-dispute-gets-ugly-congregation-at-odds-over-pastor

That is correct. Don Alexander was the long time pastor there. He was a fantastic speaker. Things were pretty good there in the 80s with a strong childrens program, MDO, etc. It all came apart in the late 90s.

https://newsok.com/article/2719370/local-church-dispute-gets-ugly-congregation-at-odds-over-pastor

Yes, but wasn't it Don's father who was the reason for the church's heyday? Seems things really started going downwards when the senior Alexander died and Don took over.

Probably so - we went there in the early 80s into the early 90s and it was still a pretty strong church but with an older congregation base and you could sort of see the writing on the wall, especially in hindsight.

They had some fun events - their Halloween/Fall Harvest event was awesome. They did hay rides down by that creek with a tractor and people jumped out and scared the kids - it was a can't miss event in our view.

My wife was actually teaching kindergarten there the morning of the Murrah building bombing.

My wife was actually teaching kindergarten there the morning of the Murrah building bombing.

I was working at Jewel Box at that time. That day we had a show that was supposed to open, we canceled, obviously. It was my job to call the volunteers for the week and let them know the opening would be postponed. One of our volunteers, I learned a day or two later, had died in the Murrah building.

The families of the missing gathered at the Church as well. I forget things like that until I start thinking about it. I recall taking things up there - it was just gut wrenching. I guess this all flows into the history of the property as a community landmark.