View Full Version : Lexford Park (formerly First Christian Church)



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10

mugofbeer
08-27-2019, 09:06 PM
No. Not vs tearing it down. But what I say might appear to be very cynical.
I’m predicting that arguments could arise over the cost of the property, method and cost of repurposing, and the new/different services impact on the neighborhood.
Racial and socioeconomic distrust and disagreements can quickly escalate. It can become a very heavy lift.

Yeah, l can agree with the cynical description. With explanations and demonstrations of renovation costs vs. new construction costs and consolidation of projects, l think people would be pretty pleased. Unless the location is just totally wrong, l think OKC residents are pretty value oriented?

lindsey
10-04-2019, 12:00 PM
Well, they are abandoning the property on advice of counsel. The church voted to "close" the pre-school/daycare but the pre-school/daycare is hoping to relocate. Does anyone have any ideas of where they could relocate? Many parents and teachers are left in a very bad situation if the pre-school/daycare can not be re-located. I do not believe it has to be associated with this church or any church.

Also, the whole thing smells to me. I wouldn't be surprised if the church is sold and demolished at night or something.

Womp Womp
05-27-2022, 12:06 PM
https://i.imgur.com/Hmzhehi_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

Walker has been blocked off, and they've got a guy in a bucket fiddling with the telecom equipment on the tower. Is this just routine maintenance or are they possibly prepping for further work?

David
07-05-2022, 02:50 PM
Steve reported on Twitter over the weekend that what looked like unpermitted demolition was happening to the building. Supposedly it turned out to be asbestos removal but it seems weird that there were no permits filed for the work (confirmed by the City of OKC twitter account).

Bill Robertson
07-05-2022, 03:28 PM
Went through asbestos abatement when I was a Facilities Manager for Kerr-McGee. It was 30 years ago so things might have changed but at the time there wasn't a permit requirement unless there was an "immanent danger to the outside atmosphere" or something like that. Ours was completely inside so our contractor didn't have to notify anyone. Again. At the time. Things might have changed since then.

Pete
07-05-2022, 04:08 PM
Unless there is new structure, electrical or plumbing, I don't believe there is a requirement for a building permit.

shawnw
07-05-2022, 04:30 PM
https://twitter.com/cityofokc/status/1544427168834506752


The City inspector learned the windows were removed to get equipment inside to perform asbestos abatement only. The contractor has a permit from DEQ to remove the asbestos. No other remodeling or demolition is taking place.

David
07-05-2022, 04:46 PM
Ahh, that makes sense.

mugofbeer
07-05-2022, 09:11 PM
Any idea who is paying for the asbestos removal? There is a LOT of it in the church and sprayed on the utilities underneath.

SEMIweather
09-26-2022, 08:23 AM
Saw several Midwest Wrecking trucks in the parking lot of this property on my way to work just now. Continuation of the asbestos removal, or is the building actually coming down?

Soonerinfiniti
09-26-2022, 08:40 AM
It seems so crazy that Crown Heights residents can hold this property hostage for years. Reminds me of when Heritage Hills residents were in an uproar over the apartments to be built at NW 13th and Walker. When built, it likely increased property values in the area.

Pete
09-26-2022, 09:13 AM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/first092622b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/first092622a.jpg

Jake
09-26-2022, 09:18 AM
Rip

Pete
09-26-2022, 09:19 AM
The demo permit was filed and issued early this morning and crews were already on site and started pulling it down by 8 AM.

stlokc
09-26-2022, 09:32 AM
This saddens me.

Now, I will be the first to concede that I had neither the time, money nor expertise to do anything with this myself. And it wasn't really part of my life at all so I had no personal stake. It's just generally such a shame that a use couldn't be found for this iconic structure. OKC has so few real architectural treasures.

I really hope that whatever takes the place here rises to the occasion and isn't some bland shopping center. This is a pretty important intersection in OKC, right in the heart of our most successful and thriving urban neighborhoods. What will developers be bringing to the table?

GaryOKC6
09-26-2022, 09:34 AM
They were not wasting any time. I am guessing that they dinn't want to give anyone time to protest.

Jake
09-26-2022, 09:35 AM
Out of the rubble will rise another dispensary.

Pete
09-26-2022, 09:36 AM
They were not wasting any time. I am guessing that they dinn't want to give anyone time to protest.

Yep.

They basically have someone file with the city and as soon as they pay the fee, they call/text the crew already on site and start demolition.

Happens all the time.

BoulderSooner
09-26-2022, 09:37 AM
this may signal the beginning of the end of this building

and boom

David
09-26-2022, 09:45 AM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/first092622b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/first092622a.jpg

RIP. Deep shame that nobody was ever able to make a better use development plan stick.

Martin
09-26-2022, 09:55 AM
oh wow... this makes me really sad. while i understand that there would be a challenge in finding a new use for the structure, it's sad that something so architecturally unique is lost.

moving forward... it would be nice to see something along the lines of the mixed-use proposal from around ten or so years ago come to pass here. i'm not sure that the surrounding neighborhood is willing to let that happen, though.

Pete
09-26-2022, 09:57 AM
I bet almost all of it will become housing.

Great location and beautiful piece of property.

They must have a buyer who didn't want to close until this was done, so the blood wouldn't be on their hands.

David
09-26-2022, 09:58 AM
If we had to lose First Christian for it I would want to see something big and mixed-use. Lots of apartment residents, some retail and/or restaurants.

Pete
09-26-2022, 10:03 AM
The very corner (less than an acre) is zoned C-3 which allows almost any type of commercial use.

But the remainder is R-1, the designation for single-family housing.

Nearby residents will fight like hell over any re-zoning. There are a ton of attorneys who own homes in Crown Heights and that neighborhood is highly organized -- maybe more so than anywhere in OKC.

Colbafone
09-26-2022, 10:03 AM
Come on now. You already know that's not what's coming. Whatever comes is going to be the most average of average developments.

dankrutka
09-26-2022, 10:09 AM
Just such a lack of imagination on the part of developers. They could have created an iconic housing development by reusing these buildings. Instead, they're for sure going to build something that could have been built in any city anywhere. It's an absolute shame. Oklahoma City is the city without a history.

David
09-26-2022, 11:07 AM
Come on now. You already know that's not what's coming. Whatever comes is going to be the most average of average developments.

Hope springs eternal.

Oski
09-26-2022, 11:19 AM
Will they spare the other building and the bell tower?

Pete
09-26-2022, 11:20 AM
Will they spare the other building and the bell tower?

I highly doubt any of that will be saved.

onthestrip
09-26-2022, 11:30 AM
oh wow... this makes me really sad. while i understand that there would be a challenge in finding a new use for the structure, it's sad that something so architecturally unique is lost.

moving forward... it would be nice to see something along the lines of the mixed-use proposal from around ten or so years ago come to pass here. i'm not sure that the surrounding neighborhood is willing to let that happen, though.


The very corner (less than an acre) is zoned C-3 which allows almost any type of commercial use.

But the remainder is R-1, the designation for single-family housing.

Nearby residents will fight like hell over any re-zoning. There are a ton of attorneys who own homes in Crown Heights and that neighborhood is highly organized -- maybe more so than anywhere in OKC.

It sucks that this was demolished but the biggest problem is not that, but the NIMBYism that will almost surely come no matter what is proposed. Any somewhat dense housing or any large retail will be fought by neighbors and for absolutely no good reason. Any argument they will make will not be bore out in reality. More traffic, cheaper housing, renters (gasp!), lack of beauty of the development will be what they throw against the wall to stop anything new. It will be a shame too because its a great site for denser housing and quality retail.

Pete
09-26-2022, 11:35 AM
Probably the highest and best use that would be somewhat palatable to the surrounding neighborhood would be something like the Waterford.

Or the modern equivalent, such as small-lot homes.

PhiAlpha
09-26-2022, 11:41 AM
Come on now. You already know that's not what's coming. Whatever comes is going to be the most average of average developments.

meh, if most of it ends up being single family housing, it will likely be pretty nice and connect with the neighborhood. Given how active the neighborhood is, I highly doubt this will end up being a halfassed development. I really think the best use of this lot would be all residential. Just seems too isolated from other commercial developments for that to make much sense and it’s basically in the middle of a neighborhood.

Edit: Basically what Pete said. Didn’t see his response before hitting send.

okatty
09-26-2022, 11:46 AM
I probably attended FCC for the first time sometime in the 70’s and then a lot during the 80’s and 90s. Our kids attended the pre-school and my wife actually taught there and was on the playground in April 19, 1995, the day of the OKC bombing. My kids are in their late 20s/early30s now and still remember and talk about the great fall carnivals they had there. We took our son in a little devil costume one year (oops). We have a lot of good memories relating to FCC, and today is a sad and nostalgic day in that regard.

BDP
09-26-2022, 12:48 PM
Probably the highest and best use that would be somewhat palatable to the surrounding neighborhood would be something like the Waterford.

Or the modern equivalent, such as small-lot homes.

This does make the most sense at this point.

I remember the proposal for a mixed use development there years ago that I believe the neighborhoods fought against. At the time, the concept was kind of exciting for OKC because we didn't have much, or any, of that in the city's core. If anything, just the concept of having another grocery option or other retail below 50th along with housing that created density seemed almost pioneering.

But so much has changed since then and some sort of OAK-like development in this location seems out of place. It definitely feels weird to say, but at this point, this city doesn't need another one of those. And, really, infrastructure wise, it'd be a weird fit. I don't know how, but 36th between Walker and 235 would have to be reworked. And not just to address NIMBY issues, but just to make it attractive to potential retailer tenants who would want convenient access for customers.

Some sort of single family housing focused development makes the most sense and that no longer equates to a lost opportunity to bring retail and services to the core, because we have a lot of that now, or, at the very least, a ton more than when this property first came up for redevelopment.

I think the real loss here is that could have been done without the demolition of the unique-to-OKC mid-century historic architecture. There's a lot of land there, and the assets destroyed today could have been integrated into a single family housing development in a way that would have elevated it, or at least differentiated it, from a Waterford type space. That would have taken work, vision, and investment, for sure, and I don't know what it would have taken to repurpose these buildings for, say, community centers or value added amenities for those buying houses in the development, but it could have been something really unique in a market that mixed use semi-dense housing developments aren't as much of a unicorn as it once was.

Basically, this will probably end up being a nice single family condo development, but it could have had architecturally significant midcentury assets as its signature.

soonerguru
09-26-2022, 01:05 PM
David Box was the same attorney involved with the sneak destruction of Citizens Bank on North May. It was handled the same way. NOTHING has been built there. It is just a scraped lot. I hate the way this city operates sometimes. So much of our taxpayer money invested to improve it from the armpit it was for decades, yet developers place little value in iconic architecture. And people in high places in OKC must hate trees because it is one of the most barren places in the USA. I am numb to this news in a way because it is SOP in OKC.

stlokc
09-26-2022, 01:38 PM
Great post, BDP!

I further agree that single family residential is the best use of this land. So what can be done to make sure that whatever comes blends well with the historic neighborhoods surrounding? I shudder to think of a development that looks like "NW 175th-and-wherever" with nearly identical 2500 SF boxes being introduced to this area.

bombermwc
09-26-2022, 02:39 PM
I know that this is no surprise to anyone and its' been a struggle to find a purpose for over a decade, but it still pains me to see this happen.

Bill Robertson
09-26-2022, 02:52 PM
Sad! I wish Crossings could have bought it when that was on the table a few years ago. But they're very watchful of getting the most for money they spend and just to make the building serviceable was going to cost a fortune.

Colbafone
09-26-2022, 03:28 PM
If it stays strictly as housing, it should be fine. But I'd just about bet my life savings that *if* there's any retail component in what's to come, it's going to suck. I REALLY hope I eat my words on that.

BDP
09-26-2022, 03:33 PM
I further agree that single family residential is the best use of this land. So what can be done to make sure that whatever comes blends well with the historic neighborhoods surrounding? I shudder to think of a development that looks like "NW 175th-and-wherever" with nearly identical 2500 SF boxes being introduced to this area.

At some point, hopefully, the market would dictate that it blends well with the neighborhood. But I don't think we even know who is interested in redeveloping it.

Also, "blends well" is very subjective. Does that mean "looks as close to the the 90 year old structures that surround it" or "a modern design that approaches detail to the same level of the older structures". Sometimes going for the former ends up being a bigger miss than going for the latter.

There are some newer builds in the area, specifically two just across 36th. They went for a modern deco look, I guess. If there's a commercial element to this, the developer would at least have precedent using those new builds against any resistance the neighborhoods might present.

If the developer wants to rezone it, they probably need to be ready for a protracted fight. I don't know if that would ultimately prevent a bad development, but if I were an investor, I think I would look for path of least resistance and work with the neighborhoods in order to start generating returns sooner rather than later.

Teo9969
09-26-2022, 08:42 PM
Isn't the density going to be decided ultimately by the sale price of the land? If the plot sells for $12M vs. $36M, you're going to get 2 very different developments.

I guess the question are the buyers going to care about Crown Heights NIMBYs? I would assume they would ultimately win any fight for rezoning. It's off a section line road with commercial at various points and I find it hard to believe investors are just going to let that land go for cheap out of fear of NIMBYs?

So I guess that's the question...now that the hard part has been done, how much is this thing going to sell for?

soonerguru
09-26-2022, 11:32 PM
Isn't the density going to be decided ultimately by the sale price of the land? If the plot sells for $12M vs. $36M, you're going to get 2 very different developments.

I guess the question are the buyers going to care about Crown Heights NIMBYs? I would assume they would ultimately win any fight for rezoning. It's off a section line road with commercial at various points and I find it hard to believe investors are just going to let that land go for cheap out of fear of NIMBYs?

So I guess that's the question...now that the hard part has been done, how much is this thing going to sell for?

Housing would be OK. Mixed use housing / commercial would be better. Any bets on this just becoming an ONCUE or weird strip shopping center with a giant parking lot? Sorry if that sounds cynical. Honestly, the snarky talk about NIMBYs seems wildly inappropriate given what is likely to land on this property, and what has happened here. This isn't going to be an example of upper-middle-class Edmond folks upset about a multi-family housing complex bringing in "differently compensated" people.

bombermwc
09-27-2022, 08:54 AM
To add more confusion to this, the whole plot apparently isn't going.

The church is still meeting in the youth/gym building, and they just put in a new AC unit. I dont think they would have paid for that if they were moving out any time soon.
Apparently the education building is also still being used.

The Disciples of Christ Regional Office is on the SE corner of the land. They are actually moving and downsizing as they move most of their staff to work remotely.

So that totally muds up the outlook on the timelines of what's going on.

David
09-27-2022, 09:33 AM
At some point, hopefully, the market would dictate that it blends well with the neighborhood. But I don't think we even know who is interested in redeveloping it.

Also, "blends well" is very subjective. Does that mean "looks as close to the the 90 year old structures that surround it" or "a modern design that approaches detail to the same level of the older structures". Sometimes going for the former ends up being a bigger miss than going for the latter.

There are some newer builds in the area, specifically two just across 36th. They went for a modern deco look, I guess. If there's a commercial element to this, the developer would at least have precedent using those new builds against any resistance the neighborhoods might present.

If the developer wants to rezone it, they probably need to be ready for a protracted fight. I don't know if that would ultimately prevent a bad development, but if I were an investor, I think I would look for path of least resistance and work with the neighborhoods in order to start generating returns sooner rather than later.

Those new buildings right across the street are part of why I'd like to see a mixed use development, it would be a fine area for a nice project as long as the zoning issues can be managed.


Housing would be OK. Mixed use housing / commercial would be better. Any bets on this just becoming an ONCUE or weird strip shopping center with a giant parking lot? Sorry if that sounds cynical. Honestly, the snarky talk about NIMBYs seems wildly inappropriate given what is likely to land on this property, and what has happened here. This isn't going to be an example of upper-middle-class Edmond folks upset about a multi-family housing complex bringing in "differently compensated" people.

I suspect there's very little chance of an OnCue or a strip mall. The surrounding neighborhood may not be at fancy Edmond prices but it is still a rather well to do area, they'll be out in force for any rezoning regardless but there's zero chance they wouldn't raise hell about a project of that sort.

Laramie
09-27-2022, 09:56 AM
Remember seeing a picture of that building when I attended St. Martin Deporres school in the world book encyclopedia as Oklahoma City 'Church of Tomorrow' and recall asking Father Francis X Schillo (our pastor & coach) did he know where the church was.

So, one day after we left Sacred Heart Gymnasium after beating St. James, Father Schillo (in a good mode) loaded us in his Station Wagon and we headed to charcoal oven hamburgers, then to Bishop McGuiness High School to scout our next opponent (John Carroll), on the way we stopped by the 'impressive' First Christian Church and it looked every bit of what I saw in World Book.

Wow, shouted a teammate, we're on the rich side of town, yep replied Father Schillo, and when we kick their butts or they kick ours, show good sportsmanship and remember a lesson well learned.

Well, the next week, we lost in overtime against JC and Father Schillo (in terrible mode) had some choice words for the two officials who didn't want to leave the gym until they were sure Father Schillo had left the premises (LOL).

All I can say is RIP Father Schillo, you were our father figure and 'one hell of a priest.' The First Christian Church was my memory of the 'classes of people' in OKC. It saddens me to see this church demolished because it took with it a chapter of my memories...

mugofbeer
09-27-2022, 10:00 AM
Remember seeing a picture of that building when I attended St. Martin Deporres school in the world book encyclopedia as Oklahoma City 'Church of Tomorrow' and recall asking Father Francis X Schillo (our pastor & coach) did he know where the church was.

So, one day after we left Sacred Heart Gymnasium after beating St. James, Father Schillo (in a good mode) loaded us in his Station Wagon and we headed to charcoal oven hamburgers, then to Bishop McGuiness High School to scout our next opponent (John Carroll), on the way we stopped by the 'impressive' First Christian Church and it looked every bit of what I saw in World Book.

Wow, shouted a teammate, we're on the rich side of town, yep replied Father Schillo, and when we kick their butts or they kick ours, show good sportsmanship and remember a lesson well learned.

Well, the next week, we lost in overtime against JC and Father Schillo (in terrible mode) had some choice words for the two officials who didn't want to leave the gym until they were sure Father Schillo had left the premises (LOL).

All I can say is RIP Father Schillo, you were our father figure and 'one hell of a priest.' The First Christian Church was my memory of the 'classes of people' in OKC. It saddens me to see this church demolished because it took a chapter of my memories...

This is almost like my childhood home being torn down. :(

David
09-27-2022, 11:24 AM
From Marty's coverage of today's City Council meeting: https://twitter.com/OKC_SPAN/status/1574791213202423810


Midwest Wrecking applied for a permit on Friday. The department flagged it, knowing it was sensitive. They consulted with legal staff throughout the weekend, and there was no legal impediment for them to approve the permit, which they did Monday morning.

This is a sad thing, losing a historic building, but I’m just not sure anything could have been done without it already having been designated as a landmark. Unfortunately that never happened. (Also it doesn’t prevent demolition, just lengthens the process.)

Cooper didn’t hear about this on Friday. City Manager Craig Freeman called him over the weekend. They spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to stop it.

TheTravellers
09-27-2022, 11:26 AM
https://www.thelostogle.com/2022/09/27/7-historic-okc-buildings-that-deserve-to-be-an-on-cue-2/

Pete
09-27-2022, 11:28 AM
That property has been for sale and in peril for years.

The time to do something was years ago, not after a demolition permit had been filed and there was zero recourse. Ed Shadid was still representing Ward 2 when this started to play out.

They could have passed motions to include that property in a design review overlay five years ago. Now all this hand-wringing is nothing but political posturing.

TheTravellers
09-27-2022, 11:28 AM
From Marty's coverage of today's City Council meeting: https://twitter.com/OKC_SPAN/status/1574791213202423810

They should've spent more time in the past however-many years trying to figure out how to stop it instead of just a day or two before the demo. And yes, I know they've done "things" about it, but never anything productive, as is evidenced by the pile of rubble (or cleared lot by now, probably).

BDP
09-27-2022, 11:47 AM
Housing would be OK. Mixed use housing / commercial would be better. Any bets on this just becoming an ONCUE or weird strip shopping center with a giant parking lot? Sorry if that sounds cynical. Honestly, the snarky talk about NIMBYs seems wildly inappropriate given what is likely to land on this property, and what has happened here.

And sometime NIMBY's can be right. Zoning exists for a reason. I can guarantee you everyone has a line that, if crossed, they would become a NIMBY. With few exceptions every homeowner is going to have some thoughts on what is built next door to them.

And, as far as I know, there isn't any publicly available proposal at this point, so there is nothing for anyone to take a NIMBY stance against. I'm pretty sure most in the area wanted for the mid-century assets to remain, just like most of us here. The church was an icon that I imagine most living there appreciated. I don't think anyone who appreciates the city and architecture in general would have wanted to trade them for an OnCue, so if that's what gets proposed, I'm not going to fault anyone for resisting it, let alone someone who owns a home next to it.


This isn't going to be an example of upper-middle-class Edmond folks upset about a multi-family housing complex bringing in "differently compensated" people.

That would seem out of character, just based on the fact that many people in the historic neighborhoods have been living there for decades and it's an area that has largely been a mix of "differently compensated" people and still is to an extent. It's definitely changed as the inner core has attracted more buyers all over the place, but the price per square foot for some Crown Heights and Edgemere houses is still very different than houses just a few blocks away in every direction. Seems to me if they wanted to live in a homogenized area of town, they chose wrong. But I would imagine that none of them were looking to live next to an OnCue.

BDP
09-27-2022, 12:02 PM
That property has been for sale and in peril for years.

The time to do something was years ago, not after a demolition permit had been filed and there was zero recourse. Ed Shadid was still representing Ward 2 when this started to play out.

They could have passed motions to include that property in a design review overlay five years ago. Now all this hand-wringing is nothing but political posturing.

This is so true. And the hand-wringing is especially cringey, since this basically was the same script used just about every time an OKC landmark is demolished. And after all the successful repurposing of historic assets over the last couple of decades that brought life and commerce back to the inner city districts, they still perceive it as politically untenable to use city government to try and protect more of them.

Do any of the overlays stop demolition? It's my impression that they have more influence on what is built, but not much sway over what is torn down.

Pete
09-27-2022, 12:05 PM
Do any of the overlays stop demolishing? It's my impression that they have more influence on what is built, but not much sway over what is torn down.

Yes.

If a property is in design review distract, they can't do anything without committee approval, which requires public notice, hearings and votes.

This is why the Gold Dome wasn't pulled down at 8 AM on the same day the permit was filed. The owner at that time (David Box) attempted to do just that and was stopped because a demo permit couldn't be issued without design review approval, which was not given.

BDP
09-27-2022, 12:12 PM
Yes.

If a property is in design review distract, they can't do anything without committee approval, which requires public notice, hearings and votes.

This is why the Gold Dome wasn't pulled down at 8 AM on the same day the permit was filed. The owner at that time (David Box) attempted to do just that and was stopped because a demo permit couldn't be issued without design review approval, which was not given.

Thanks. I guess it just seems so easy to tear things down in general that I assumed design review didn't have much to say about that part.

In the Gold Dome example, did Box even have replacement proposal at the time.

Pete
09-27-2022, 12:17 PM
In the Gold Dome example, did Box even have replacement proposal at the time.

Nope. IIRC, he tried to get the demo permit, was notified he'd have to go through the process with the Urban Design Committee, then dropped the whole thing.

He then tried to pull a ruse with TEEMCO (said he sold it to them when he really didn't) and when that fell apart, sold to the current owner.

onthestrip
09-27-2022, 01:15 PM
And sometime NIMBY's can be right. Zoning exists for a reason. I can guarantee you everyone has a line that, if crossed, they would become a NIMBY. With few exceptions every homeowner is going to have some thoughts on what is built next door to them.

And, as far as I know, there isn't any publicly available proposal at this point, so there is nothing for anyone to take a NIMBY stance against. I'm pretty sure most in the area wanted for the mid-century assets to remain, just like most of us here. The church was an icon that I imagine most living there appreciated. I don't think anyone who appreciates the city and architecture in general would have wanted to trade them for an OnCue, so if that's what gets proposed, I'm not going to fault anyone for resisting it, let alone someone who owns a home next to it.



That would seem out of character, just based on the fact that many people in the historic neighborhoods have been living there for decades and it's an area that has largely been a mix of "differently compensated" people and still is to an extent. It's definitely changed as the inner core has attracted more buyers all over the place, but the price per square foot for some Crown Heights and Edgemere houses is still very different than houses just a few blocks away in every direction. Seems to me if they wanted to live in a homogenized area of town, they chose wrong. But I would imagine that none of them were looking to live next to an OnCue.

Sure, but this is on a corner of a state highway and a section line road and you should expect that some density or busy commercial use might happen here. Because of this location, any NIMBY fighting these types of uses is just foolish and/or selfish and their opinions should not be given much weight in the matter, imo. Similar to Edmondites living 500 yards from I35 but get upset when someone wants to build a hotel on the 35 service road.

Bill Robertson
09-27-2022, 01:22 PM
To add more confusion to this, the whole plot apparently isn't going.

The church is still meeting in the youth/gym building, and they just put in a new AC unit. I dont think they would have paid for that if they were moving out any time soon.
Apparently the education building is also still being used.

The Disciples of Christ Regional Office is on the SE corner of the land. They are actually moving and downsizing as they move most of their staff to work remotely.

So that totally muds up the outlook on the timelines of what's going on.

I'm not sure the investment in an A/C unit would keep a potential development of the property from happening. It wasn't very long ago that all kinds of cranes and scaffolding were around the big egg and it was repainted and the round skylights either refurbished or replaced. That had to cost a small fortune and now it's in a landfill.

gopokes88
09-27-2022, 02:55 PM
David Box was the same attorney involved with the sneak destruction of Citizens Bank on North May. It was handled the same way. NOTHING has been built there. It is just a scraped lot. I hate the way this city operates sometimes. So much of our taxpayer money invested to improve it from the armpit it was for decades, yet developers place little value in iconic architecture. And people in high places in OKC must hate trees because it is one of the most barren places in the USA. I am numb to this news in a way because it is SOP in OKC.

I think a reasonable compromise/starting point is a demo permit contingent upon sale and funding of the new development.

Some old buildings can be saved, some can't. There is a balancing act for private property rights and public good.

The easiest thing to do would be to revise the permitting system to say "yes" once the sale occurs and funding is in place for the next development.

Oski
09-27-2022, 03:20 PM
There should be a MAPS project to acquire, renovate, and find good use for iconic buildings. Oops, we've already knocked down most of them, so ... never mind.

BDP
09-27-2022, 03:30 PM
Sure, but this is on a corner of a state highway and a section line road and you should expect that some density or busy commercial use might happen here.

Nah, that's silly. The church had been there since 1956. So that location was developed 66 years ago and not for "some density or busy commercial use". To suggest that anyone should have just expected it would one day be torn down for a gas station or some other "busy commercial use", and therefore shouldn't have bought a house there is just to ignore history and to place some weird expectation of clairvoyance on people who bought a house there in, say, the 80s. That part of Broadway wasn't even considered Interstate until 20 years after the church was built and that section of I-235 wasn't there until 1986. Most of those houses were built 50 years before that.


Because of this location, any NIMBY fighting these types of uses is just foolish and/or selfish and their opinions should not be given much weight in the matter, imo. Similar to Edmondites living 500 yards from I35 but get upset when someone wants to build a hotel on the 35 service road.

I'm not sure to which Edmonites or hotel(s) you are referring. So, can I ask when those houses were built relative to when that part of I-35 was completed in that area (if it helps I-35, was completed in OK in 1971, when Edmond had a population of about 16k) and what was torn down and rezoned to make way for the hotel(s)?