The families of the missing gathered at the Church as well. I forget things like that until I start thinking about it. I recall taking things up there - it was just gut wrenching. I guess this all flows into the history of the property as a community landmark.

The Jewel Box was where all the media gathered to keep them separate from the families. Governor Keating, the mayor, various other leaders, as well as celebrities, etc. all used the Jewel Box for press conferences. Those first few days I remember being amazed at the way the community came together, and how quickly the food and supplies showed up, and kept showing up.

I'm really concerned about the Jewel Box and the church. Does anybody have contacts with Ed Harris (the actor)? He has a significant emotional investment in the Jewel Box. Martha Knott believed in Ed and Ed still credits Martha and the Jewel Box when discussing his career. He literally became an actor while at the Jewel Box. I know he's very good friends with Martha's son, Robert, also an actor, and a writer in Los Angeles (who. in fact, was selected by Robert Parker's estate to continue the Parker series - and to great acclaim.). I can't help but think he and Robert and maybe others might be interested in helping save FCC and the truly legendary theatre in the round that is the Jewel Box.

A couple of great articles:

https://www.npr.org/2014/03/08/287296921/the-unforgettable-performance-ed-harris-doesnt-remember
https://therake.com/stories/icons/method-man-ed-harris/

Oh, and be sure and check out OKC Mod's three-part series on the church - great pictures too!
https://okcmod.com/2016/08/celebrating-60-years-a-history-of-the-first-christian-church-part-1/

Petition has been started to save this building. I signed it.

https://www.change.org/p/okie-mod-squad-landmark-the-first-christian-church?signed=true

https://kfor.com/2019/02/05/group-creates-petition-to-save-first-christian-church-in-oklahoma-city/

^

There have been rumors floating around that the iconic structure may be demolished by possible purchasers of the property.

As a reminder, it is not located in a design or historic district and therefore demolition is a simple matter of obtaining a permit that does not require any sort of approval process. About as tough as getting a garage sale permit.

Yes, but wasn't it Don's father who was the reason for the church's heyday? Seems things really started going downwards when the senior Alexander died and Don took over.
No. Don was successful for quite some time after his dad died. There was some sort of dispute and split in the congregation in the mid to late 90s. I don't know the story or exact time period.

No. Don was successful for quite some time after his dad died. There was some sort of dispute and split in the congregation in the mid to late 90s. I don't know the story or exact time period.

I can say the congregation was dwindling in the early 90s. The church got a major boost from hosting the Red Cross after the bombing, but they had started downhill, financially, at least as early as '92. The dispute and split you speak of must have happened a bit earlier than you estimate, and I can't remember what it was that caused the rift.

Either way, the church has been in decline since, at least, the early 90s.

^

There have been rumors floating around that the iconic structure may be demolished by possible purchasers of the property.

As a reminder, it is not located in a design or historic district and therefore demolition is a simple matter of obtaining a permit that does not require any sort of approval process. About as tough as getting a garage sale permit.

Similar to Founders Bank, so yeah, demo could happen at any time with pretty much no notice.

Demolition of iconic First Christian church deemed 'imminent' (http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=580-Demolition-of-iconic-First-Christian-church-deemed-imminent)


Ward 2 Councilman Ed Shadid received notice from a member of the board of the First Christian Church of Oklahoma City, 3700 N. Walker Ave., that the church property was under contract to a buyer who would only complete the purchase on the condition that existing buildings — including the iconic sanctuary — be demolished.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/firstchristian022219a.jpg


Shadid was invited to speak to the church board to better educate it on the possible roadblocks that might present themselves and stand in the way of the property sale. Shadid was told the potential buyer has become nervous due to recent publicity surrounding a possible demolition.

Shadid said that he would be in the Okalhoma City Council meeting at that time and could not attend.

Over the last several months, rumors have circulated that there was a plan in place to raze the structure, once promoted on postcards as the “Church of Tomorrow.”

Due tor related concerns, Shadid brought up the subject at the most recent city council meeting on Feb. 12, recognizing that the city might need to take action or risk losing yet another building with historic and architectural significance.

Just in the last few years, the city has seen the demolition of Stage Center and United Founders Bank, and nearly lost the Donnay Building at Classen Circle before Braum’s Ice Cream and Dairy Store’s plans met public opposition and were ultimately withdrawn.

Because First Christian does not fall within the geographic boundaries of a city design review committee, demolition merely requires a simple permit that is often issued the same day an application is submitted.

Oklahoma City Council can vote to designate any property within city limits as a historic landmark. Once in place, an owner or future buyer would be required to obtain approval from the Historic Preservation Commission before any significant exterior modification can be made, including partial or full demolition.

As the current owner is likely to oppose such a move, positive votes from at least 7 of 9 council members would be necessary. Only a simple majority is required without owner opposition.

Shadid said he will introduce a historic landmark resolution for the church property at the March 12 council meeting. Although there is a meeting scheduled for next Tuesday, the deadline for placing an item on the meeting agenda has passed.

For over a year, the church has attempted to sell the property, which is comprised of several buildings set on a scenic 32-acre plot bordering the historic neighborhoods of Crown Heights and Edgemere Park.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/firstchristian022219b.jpg


The site at NW 36th Street between Walker Avenue and Interstate 235 drew an ambitious commercial development proposal in 2008 that was ultimately withdrawn due to public backlash.

In addition to the soaring domed sanctuary that was built in 1956, the property also includes the Jewel Box Theatre, an office building for Oklahoma Disciples, Trinity School and a large amphitheater.

Indications are that the church now has less than 100 members and due to the size of the main sanctuary, now hold services in an ancillary building instead.

There is currently a petition drive to save the buildings by local preservationist Lynne Rostochil, who was involved in a similar movement in support of the Donnay Building.

Rostochil's grandfather, architect R. Duane Conner, designed First Christian,.

Thus far, over 3,800 have signed the petition, which can be viewed here: https://www.change.org/p/okie-mod-squad-landmark-the-first-christian-church

No! This city must take a stand. This includes the historic Jewel Box Theatre - a theatre in the round that continues to have sell-out shows. Can Mayor Holt call an emergency meeting? Can they vote to override the agenda deadline for Tuesday’s meeting and take a vote on historic landmark status then? But it may be gone by Tuesday. This is all hands on deck for all that feel Oklahoma City deserves to keep this beautiful campus. Leaders - step up. Money and the ability to do whatever one wants in this city should NOT be absolute.

^^^ this!!!

Could the church site be repurposed as one of the Wellness Centers the city wants build, get a sponsor to operate or become part of parks & recreation. The theater & amphitheater has a lot of potential could be leased out by the city for weddings, picnics and multiple-events.

How about a law firm similar to what Dan Davis group did with the historic Calvary Baptist Church or the Arts Council of Oklahoma. A huge restaurant, cafeteria or food court. Interurban multi-denominational worship center supported by a number of churches, like a National Cathedral.

Parcel out (sell) different areas of this complex for various uses...

Let's save this structure much like we did with the Gold Dome.

Ownership rights and zoning allow this to be demoed Unless a buyer steps up that wants to keep the structure I likely will be gone soon

Guilt. It is our best hope, IMO.

The First Christian Church campus was a bold, visionary effort of the post WWII Disciples Of Christ to gain prominence in Oklahoma City and beyond. It was a great success and they benefitted socially and financially IMO. If they allow it to be destroyed, for any reason, then their effort will be shown to be a failure. If what I think I have read is true, and the fellowship has dwindled to less than 100 people (most over age 70), then mortality and legacy should be top of mind for them. What was a beacon for the eternal and life changing power of believing in the Lord Jesus Christ will be seen as another symbol of the arrogance of man in the name of their god. The outrage concerning this reflects the success of their original effort. This is not a commercial building. It has represented the eternal and destruction would be short sighted.

Beside, what are they gonna do with the money? Surely they aren't going to split it amongst themselves? money is like a vapor, it comes and goes. There's a reason it's called "cash flow".

I would be curious to know the state/condition of the building. Many years ago when we attended FCC there were significant maintenance issues, leaks, etc. The cost of keeping it in decent condition is pretty significant.

And I assume, regardless of that, the current leadership has decided to sell. So absent a big about-face, that ship has sailed and a new owner will decide the fate of the building and rest of the property.

I would be curious to know the state/condition of the building. Many years ago when we attended FCC there were significant maintenance issues, leaks, etc. The cost of keeping it in decent condition is pretty significant.

And I assume, regardless of that, the current leadership has decided to sell. So absent a big about-face, that ship has sailed and a new owner will decide the fate of the building and rest of the property.

I'm guessing you know how the Disciples of Christ structures property ownership? Is each congregation a separate entity that makes all decisions?

I'm wondering why all this rush to preserve wasn't done several years ago, when it went up for sale? Any talk now of preservation is too little, too late, and, unless someone has deep enough pockets to buy the property and preserve the structure, there's really nothing more to be done.

The congregation and the church have every right to sell the property to whomever they choose. I, personally, will hate to see Jewel Box gone, as it's been my theatre home for almost 30 years. The church has been in decline for the last decade or so, and the writing has been on the wall as to the fate of this property.

It sucks, yes. But all this talk and wailing about preserving and stopping the sale should have started many years ago.

It’s not too late. OKC literally just went through this with the Braum’s/Donnay building, which was saved through public pressure. If OKC should have learned one thing from its recent history, it’s to keep pushing to do the right thing or else the city will just end up a generic mass of replaceable anywhereness.

I'm wondering why all this rush to preserve wasn't done several years ago, when it went up for sale?

prop cause they were too busy trying to save every other historic and unique building that seemingly goes up for the chopping block like clockwork every month. ;)

I'm guessing you know how the Disciples of Christ structures property ownership? Is each congregation a separate entity that makes all decisions?

I’m not totally sure, but I believe the local entity owns the property and makes whatever decisions are to be made.

I'm wondering why all this rush to preserve wasn't done several years ago, when it went up for sale? Any talk now of preservation is too little, too late, and, unless someone has deep enough pockets to buy the property and preserve the structure, there's really nothing more to be done.

The congregation and the church have every right to sell the property to whomever they choose. I, personally, will hate to see Jewel Box gone, as it's been my theatre home for almost 30 years. The church has been in decline for the last decade or so, and the writing has been on the wall as to the fate of this property.

It sucks, yes. But all this talk and wailing about preserving and stopping the sale should have started many years ago.

I don’t think it is been for sale for several years. About a year IIRC. Lemme ask why the need to sell? This is not a commercial property with owners who have invested personal money or stand to gain from a sale?

I don’t think it is been for sale for several years. About a year IIRC. Lemme ask why the need to sell? This is not a commercial property with owners who have invested personal money or stand to gain from a sale?

Why don't the owners of the property have the right to sell? The first post in this thread is from 2016 announcing it as for sale, but there have been investors looking at this property for years, all scared off by the amount of money they'd have to pour in to keep the structure and make it sound.

Why don't the owners of the property have the right to sell? The first post in this thread is from 2016 announcing it as for sale, but there have been investors looking at this property for years, all scared off by the amount of money they'd have to pour in to keep the structure and make it sound.

And the sales price.

I'm actually still a registered member at this church. My wife and I actually went onto the property last week to a Trinity School event. The Trinity lease on the property exists until 2020. It will be a shame to see the school move as it brings a great deal of energy to the property in the way originally intended.

Other than the sales price, the reason the threat of demolition hasn't been an imminent threat is that the church membership has regularly expressed their desire that it not be torn down. I haven't seen the church finances in some time, but there was a fairly healthy endowment that kept the property up while I was attending there. Even though membership was dwindling, it's the endowment that staved of the sale. My guess is that those finances must be threatened, thus the sale.

Regarding some of the other comments on the previous page, the first Don Alexander was apparently incredibly charismatic and raised the funds for "The church of Tomorrow" in the early fifties. Alexander was also a politician. I believe a senator. The congregation actually had built the church at 10th and Robinson (now Frontline) and started this project under his leadership. It was an architectural marvel and featured in Life magazine. Shortly after the church was completed, Alexander was killed in a plane crash.

From the plane crash onward the membership dwindled. So almost immediately after the facility was built. It was essentially built around the charisma of one man. After the second pastor, Alexander's son, Don Jr. came back to the church and essentially stabilized the church. He was there for several decades. I had the pleasure of knowing him. The church had at least two schisms under him though. They pretty much divisions over the style of leadership. Younger people wanted the more non-denominational modern worship style over traditional worship. That may be over generalizing it. There may have been other issues too. Regardless, he made it through those two schisims and the old stayed and the young left. Don retired and moved into the mountains in Colorado.

I might try to go to this board meeting just to see what's up with the place. After I moved here from Texas twenty years ago, the membership and the facility have a special place in my heart. The congregation is incredibly sweet and the architecture of that place is pretty amazing. Despite what is being asserted, it is an incredibly sound structure. I installed the carillon system in the bell tower. That structure is now dual purpose and actually has AT&T antennas in it. There is also a large outdoor amphitheater that often escapes view. A larger than life statue of Don Alexander stands in front of Trinity School. The whole saga, period of time, and spirit of that era is extremely Kennedyesque.

^

Can you shed some light on where the sales proceeds will go?

Will they go to the national organization?

My understanding is that the congregation wants to stay together. I heard that they actually want to move into the Trinity School building. That may have changed but that would presume that the old youth center wouldn't be sold or that they would retain some sort of lease on that property. They also previously entertained moving or buying something somewhere else and moving entirely.

Regarding the national Disciple of Christ organization, I am not sure about that. The building just east of the dome facing 36th street is actually the state offices for the denomination. There are nearly a couple hundred Disciples churches in Oklahoma. Having the state offices there gives you some sort of idea as to how important and influential the complex used to be. If the church is dissolved, it may go to the state organization. I will ask our pastor about that.

I'm actually still a registered member at this church. My wife and I actually went onto the property last week to a Trinity School event. The Trinity lease on the property exists until 2020. It will be a shame to see the school move as it brings a great deal of energy to the property in the way originally intended.

Other than the sales price, the reason the threat of demolition hasn't been an imminent threat is that the church membership has regularly expressed their desire that it not be torn down. I haven't seen the church finances in some time, but there was a fairly healthy endowment that kept the property up while I was attending there. Even though membership was dwindling, it's the endowment that staved of the sale. My guess is that those finances must be threatened, thus the sale.

Regarding some of the other comments on the previous page, the first Don Alexander was apparently incredibly charismatic and raised the funds for "The church of Tomorrow" in the early fifties. Alexander was also a politician. I believe a senator. The congregation actually had built the church at 10th and Robinson (now Frontline) and started this project under his leadership. It was an architectural marvel and featured in Life magazine. Shortly after the church was completed, Alexander was killed in a plane crash.

From the plane crash onward the membership dwindled. So almost immediately after the facility was built. It was essentially built around the charisma of one man. After the second pastor, Alexander's son, Don Jr. came back to the church and essentially stabilized the church. He was there for several decades. I had the pleasure of knowing him. The church had at least two schisms under him though. They pretty much divisions over the style of leadership. Younger people wanted the more non-denominational modern worship style over traditional worship. That may be over generalizing it. There may have been other issues too. Regardless, he made it through those two schisims and the old stayed and the young left. Don retired and moved into the mountains in Colorado.

I might try to go to this board meeting just to see what's up with the place. After I moved here from Texas twenty years ago, the membership and the facility have a special place in my heart. The congregation is incredibly sweet and the architecture of that place is pretty amazing. Despite what is being asserted, it is an incredibly sound structure. I installed the carillon system in the bell tower. That structure is now dual purpose and actually has AT&T antennas in it. There is also a large outdoor amphitheater that often escapes view. A larger than life statue of Don Alexander stands in front of Trinity School. The whole saga, period of time, and spirit of that era is extremely Kennedyesque.

Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love for there to be someone who would invest the money to keep the buildings intact, and even improved upon. It's a shame it's even come to this, but the congregation has apparently agreed to sell to someone who wants to level everything, and I think that's their right, no matter how much I hate to see it all go. In the right hands, that property could be an amazing facility for the arts in Oklahoma City. That amphitheatre is very unique in addition to the Jewel Box and the sanctuary.

If the church had been able to let it go at a lower price, if the right investors had come along, if the city had a better process for protecting its historic buildings, if, if, if...

It's a bad deal for everyone except the only people who really have a say in the process, the church and the people buying the property.

Leaks were mentioned a few posts ago. The roof was redone and all the round skylights were replaced last year. We go by there daily taking my wife to work and there were lifts and crews for most of a year.

Barrettd, I think that is a fair assessment as the situation currently stands today. I guess the questions is how could it stand. Here are some statements sent to me by Ed Shadid by way of the OKC Planning Department as it relates to historic buildings.

Here are some Q&As

Historic Buildings Q&A

How can I help preserve a building?

Talk to your City Council representative and the Mayor’s office. You can also sign up to speak at City Council, Planning Commission and Historic Preservation Commission meetings.

What’s the difference between Historic Landmark zoning and the National Register of Historic Places?

Historic Landmark zoning is controlled by the City Council. The Council can change the zoning overlay to designate a property as a Historic Landmark.

The National Register of Historic Places is authorized by the U.S. National Park Service. It’s a symbolic recognition that a place is worthy of preservation.

What happens when you want to demolish a building without Historic Landmark zoning?

The only review is what’s required to get a demolition permit. Exceptions apply in design review districts like Downtown and Bricktown, where demolitions are subject to approval by review committees.

Who can zone a property as a Historic Landmark?

The City Council. The process is the same as any other zoning application:

• The property owner can request a zoning change through the Planning Commission, Historic Preservation Commission or the City Council. The commissions or the Council can also independently start the zoning change process.

• The commissions review the requested change and make a recommendation to the City Council.

• The City Council makes a final decision.

Does the owner have to agree with the Historic Landmark designation?

No. But if the property owner formally opposes the zoning overlay, the City Council can only designate it as a Historic Landmark with a supermajority of seven votes.

What does it mean when a property is designated as a Historic Landmark?

Exterior work, including demolition, is subject to approval by the Historic Preservation Commission.

What are Oklahoma City’s Historic Landmarks?

Wells Fargo Building (Whiskey Chicks), 115 E Reno Ave.
Calvary Baptist Church (Law Offices of Dan Davis), 300 N Walnut Ave.
St. Paul’s Episcopal Cathedral, 127 NW 7th Street
Sieber Grocery Building (The Sieber), 1309 N Hudson Ave.
Hotel Marion (The Marion), 110 NW 10th Street
Milk Bottle Grocery (LAUD Studio), 2426 N Classen Blvd.
Union Soldiers Cemetery (Oklahoma Veterans Cemetery), 2101 NE 36th Street
Freedom Center, 2609 N Martin Luther King Ave.

What's interesting is that it's sandwiched in-between two HP neighborhoods. While a new owner may be able to do whatever they want with it, I can't imagine that those two neighborhoods will just quietly let anything be built there. While they ultimately have no power to stop something, I can see them trying as hard as they can to make it a pain in the butt. It's my understanding that it was largely the resistance of those neighborhoods that resulted in a previous developer pulling out.

Is there any indication of what the buyer ultimately wants to do with the property?

Didn't the Humphreys have a grand(-ish) mixed-use proposal for this land at one time?

^

Yes, but the church and Jewel Box Theater were to be preserved.

What's interesting is that it's sandwiched in-between two HP neighborhoods. While a new owner may be able to do whatever they want with it, I can't imagine that those two neighborhoods will just quietly let anything be built there. While they ultimately have no power to stop something, I can see them trying as hard as they can to make it a pain in the butt. It's my understanding that it was largely the resistance of those neighborhoods that resulted in a previous developer pulling out.

Is there any indication of what the buyer ultimately wants to do with the property?

I can't remember if we even know who the buyer is at this point.

Even beyond demolition, a significant portion of that property would have to be rezoned.

Only the very corner of Walker and 36th is zoned C-3. The huge percentage is R-1, which only allows for single-family homes. There is a CUP-26 overlay but I believe that just allows for the operation of the school, and very limited use of the amphitheater.

So, demolition is only part of this. In order to build anything but a traditional housing tract (and even that would require platting through the planning commission), this property would have to go through rezoning which means formal notice to surrounding neighbors, public hearings, then ultimately approval by city council.

And good luck with that in general but particularly if you demolish or plan to demolish the church.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/firstchristianzoning.jpg

https://newsok.com/article/5623926/demolition-imminent-for-landmark-first-christian-church

The title of Steve's article looks familiar...

https://newsok.com/article/5623926/demolition-imminent-for-landmark-first-christian-church

The title of Steve's article looks familiar...

what? completely different... the words are in a different order, and hey calls it a landmark, not iconic...

So, demolition is only part of this. In order to build anything but a traditional housing tract (and even that would require platting through the planning commission), this property would have to go through rezoning which means formal notice to surrounding neighbors, public hearings, then ultimately approval by city council.


Certainly doesn't sound easy.

Unfortunately, it sounds like a recipe for another historic tear down that only results in empty space for an indeterminate amount of time.

Certainly doesn't sound easy.

Unfortunately, it sounds like a recipe for another historic tear down that only results in empty space for an indeterminate amount of time.

agreed... sadly a while ago i would have been okay with this... and i was okay with tearing down stage center to get the project that was shown to us... but after seeing that turn into nothing, and then the loss of the Gold Dome... i'm all for saving this now.

Only the very corner of Walker and 36th is zoned C-3. The huge percentage is R-1, which only allows for single-family homes. There is a CUP-26 overlay but I believe that just allows for the operation of the school, and very limited use of the amphitheater.

It kind of looks like the path of least resistance would to maybe do one of those gated housing developments, like those in Nichols Hills by the Golf Course.

And in that context, maybe they could preserve some of the current assets for community use and fund maintenance through the HOA...

Just thinking out loud...

Remember, the proposal by the Humphreys 10 years ago showed the church would remain and even that was withdrawn due to backlash by the neighbors.

I have a very hard time seeing how a large development would ever get past all the various public hoops, and I would deem the chances almost impossible if that plan also involved razing the church.


There is a reason why this awesome piece of property has remained undeveloped all these years.

Remember, the proposal by the Humphreys 10 years ago showed the church would remain and even that was withdrawn due to backlash by the neighbors.

I have a very hard time seeing how a large development would ever get past all the various public hoops, and I would deem the chances almost impossible if that plan also involved razing the church.


There is a reason why this awesome piece of property has remained undeveloped all these years.

True,

I lived in the area at the time and I seem to remember the biggest concern the neighborhood(s) had was traffic and traffic flow (big increase on Walker), largely due to the commercial aspects.

.... or, at least, that was their best strategy against a development they simply didn't want to see built.

agreed... sadly a while ago i would have been okay with this... and i was okay with tearing down stage center to get the project that was shown to us... but after seeing that turn into nothing, and then the loss of the Gold Dome... i'm all for saving this now.

It's interesting, because it certainly feels like there is a lot more support for preservation and restoration than just 15 years ago. I think a big part of that is that you can now easily point to multiple examples in OKC of how restoration can lead to economic resurgence and improved quality of life, even in the most neglected cases. Many seemed to used to think that was counter intuitive or even slightly communistic. Now the areas that have been restored and revitalized are pointed to as the city's identity.

Now, I think this one presents more of a challenge than something that is part of district or easily defined commercial redevelopment. I think the isolated projects like these make it harder to visualize anything but a total re-imagining. But looking at the plot Pete posted, it just seems like any developer is going to have a lot of land to develop, even if they kept the church and incorporated it somehow. And given the potential backlash from the neighborhood, doing so might actually create some good will...

But who knows. It's all speculation as we don't even know who wants it and what they want it for.

Regarding the re-zoning... if a housing developer bought the land to build houses, then there would be no re-zoning requirement, right?

agreed... sadly a while ago i would have been okay with this... and i was okay with tearing down stage center to get the project that was shown to us... but after seeing that turn into nothing, and then the loss of the Gold Dome... i'm all for saving this now.

Is the Gold Dome gone?

Is the Gold Dome gone?

opps.. i said gold dome. meant the founders national bank... was thinking of unique buildings and should have re-read before posting, as i was just kind of thinking and typing while looking at something else

Regarding the re-zoning... if a housing developer bought the land to build houses, then there would be no re-zoning requirement, right?


They would still have to file a plat through the planning commission for the individual lots.

opps.. i said gold dome. meant the founders national bank... was thinking of unique buildings and should have re-read before posting, as i was just kind of thinking and typing while looking at something else

NP. I feel better now.

http://www.news9.com/story/40017600/thousands-sign-petition-to-protect-iconic-dome-church-in-nw-okc?fbclid=IwAR0rh5SO-uSU5nwxjAq9NofRLb5fZ1izaavuPHBsyskeBt0Mes00gleEdbo

news video said the congregation is down to 50 members...

I think over the next 10-20 years this will be happening more and more with old churches.
Churches have tons of land and huge buildings they no longer need.

They would still have to file a plat through the planning commission for the individual lots.

Which would pass. As long as the new plat was in line with the adjacent neighborhoods. They would have no grounds to deny it.

Also of note is that is braums had demoed the Donnay building first Their simple rezoning request (remember they were just asked to change a r zoning to a c to match the entire surrounding property). Would have passed

Also if they had got to court they also likely would have succeeded

Another buyer entered the picture and saved the building

Unless another buyer steps forward soon. I think these buildings will get demoed

Remember, the proposal by the Humphreys 10 years ago showed the church would remain and even that was withdrawn due to backlash by the neighbors.

It's ironic that they may end up with something that is more affront to their sensibilities. Wasn't that concept similar to The Wheeler District based off of Seaside?

Remember, the proposal by the Humphreys 10 years ago showed the church would remain and even that was withdrawn due to backlash by the neighbors.

I have a very hard time seeing how a large development would ever get past all the various public hoops, and I would deem the chances almost impossible if that plan also involved razing the church.


There is a reason why this awesome piece of property has remained undeveloped all these years.

So in this one instance, we're all rooting for the NIMBYs. :)

So in this one instance, we're all rooting for the NIMBYs. :)

Feels weird, huh?

So in this one instance, we're all rooting for the NIMBYs. :)

One could argue they are to blame for this as well as they are responsible for the last proposal here falling through. That proposal would have saved this building and we likely wouldn’t be looking at a demolition here now.

One could argue they are to blame for this as well as they are responsible for the last proposal here falling through. That proposal would have saved this building and we likely wouldn’t be looking at a demolition here now.

So true.

Which would pass. As long as the new plat was in line with the adjacent neighborhoods. They would have no grounds to deny it.

Also of note is that is braums had demoed the Donnay building first Their simple rezoning request (remember they were just asked to change a r zoning to a c to match the entire surrounding property). Would have passed

Also if they had got to court they also likely would have succeeded

Another buyer entered the picture and saved the building

Unless another buyer steps forward soon. I think these buildings will get demoed

Yes, but I think this supports my argument that guilt is our best hope. Whoever decides to destroy the complex will have to feel it is worth being publicly named and blamed for doing so. They will have to realize that some future development they will work on will have to stand in front of many local groups, boards and agencies that they ran over, bypassed, or just exercised their legal right in this instance. Braum's didn't think it was worth it on Classen. They Humphreys family didn't think it was worth it at this location 10 years ago. OGE thought it was worth the risk with Stage Center. I think this is so radioactive that they can't even do the transfer between a few faceless LLC's from out of state for ten years before they come forward with a plan.

That proposal would have saved this building and we likely wouldnÂ’t be looking at a demolition here now.

Hard to say, really. We've seen it where developers say they are going to do this or that, but, when there's no oversight involved, there's still nothing to statutorily stop them from getting demo permits if they feel like it and doing what they want.

Again, I think there is a growing public sentiment for Oklahoma City's historic structures, but that really hasn't translated to much more official recognition. I mean, if the info from Shadid that Urban Pioneer posted is accurate and complete (and I have no reason to believe it isn't), we only recognize 8 buildings as historical landmarks in the entire city. That's 8 buildings remaining over the course of 130 years of development.

Hard to say what the net effect of Humphreys abandoning their plan for this site, in part due to public backlash, will be, but cultural apathy, even disdain, towards older structures in general has been a strong guiding force in development over the long haul and, more importantly, in our official policies about development. At the end of the day, Humphreys could have done what they wanted and, also, could have torn it down, regardless of the neighborhood's opinion. That's still the case here.

I recall Shadid was talking about the city needing some kind of preservation process. Is this actually something that's being created, or will it just be talked about forever?

I recall Shadid was talking about the city needing some kind of preservation process. Is this actually something that's being created, or will it just be talked about forever?

There is a process currently. It takes 7 of the 9 council votes. To get past an owner that is opposed

There is a process currently. It takes 7 of the 9 council votes. To get past an owner that is opposed

There is another process underway by the planning department that would go beyond the current way of doing things.

Aubrey McDermid said they are still about a year out. Been working on it for a while.

There is another process underway by the planning department that would go beyond the current way of doing things.

Aubrey McDermid said they are still about a year out. Been working on it for a while.

That is good to know. I wonder what it will look like