There is currently $8.5 million allocated for 2017 to completely rebuild the clubhouse.

No funding source is identified but for the $9.25MM Lincoln club house project, they used a combination of General Obligation Bond plus golf revenue bonds. I believe the same was true for the big Earlywine project.

Also, for 2019 they have allocated $4.5MM for rebuilding of Hefner South Golf course including tee boxes, greens, bunkers, irrigation, signage, and cart paths.

The course and clubhouse were built in the mid 50's.



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This is the course I frequent. Very happy about that, though it is still in pretty good condition.

I have a bunch of fond memories of that old clubhouse and I bet a ton of others do as well.

I lived nearby and used to go with my dad when I was a kid, then later on my own as a young adult.

^^^^^^^
Same here. Definitely fond of the place, but time marches on. Also pretty fond of south course. Hope it doesn't change radically. It's a great one for a brisk walking round early in the morning. When they renovated the north course - while the upgrades were fantastic - it was in many ways a new course. Layout changed dramatically, and it became much less walking-friendly.

Lots of courses these days intentionally create situations that discourage walking (long green-to-teebox distances, for instance), to encourage cart use for revenue reasons. I know carts ostensibly speed up play too, but not if it is the wrong two people sharing a cart. I can tell you that when I was consistently decent (low-mid 80s playing it down on the south course) I was probably quicker on foot than in a cart. If you hit it straight and a course is cart paths only, you should be faster than a cart if you don't eff around on a tee box, with club selection and the like. If I was the first off the tee on a weekday morning I could play the south in about 2-1/2 hours.

Any idea on when there are plans to release renderings?

I don't think any renderings have been formally developed but you can bet it will end up looking like Lincoln and Earlywine, as those are very similar to each other.

I don't think any renderings have been formally developed but you can bet it will end up looking like Lincoln and Earlywine, as those are very similar to each other.

When did they redo Earlywine? I was just there Monday and that clubhouse is the same as I can remember it being for some time now and it's alright but nothing spectacular..... Now the new one at Lincoln is pretty impressive compared to what was there before.

Maybe it was just proposed?

The design is nearly the same as Lincoln.

Maybe it was just proposed?

The design is nearly the same as Lincoln.

Must have been... Clubhouse at Earlywine is very similar to what's at Hefner and Trosper currently.

Press release:

*******************


Oklahoma City’s Hefner Golf Club makes improvements as recovery from winter storms continues
07/28/2021

New sod, 6 acres of grass sprigs and a new irrigation system this fall are part of Lake Hefner Golf Club’s plan to make improvements and help the turf recover from the winter’s historic cold snap.

“The extreme temperatures this February damaged every golf course in Oklahoma City, and Hefner suffered the most out of our municipal courses. We understand it’s been frustrating for golfers, and we’re working on it,” said Head Golf Professional Brad Sliauter. “We’re making improvements now to make the experience better for golfers during the rest of the summer season, and our plans for the fall will take it even further before next spring.”

The unprecedented winter cold killed grass on Hefner’s fairways and collars around greens, making it harder for the course to bounce back in just one spring and summer season. OKC Golf has re-sodded the collars and added over 6 acres of grass sprigs in the North Course fairways, plus the No. 11 and No. 18 fairways on the South Course.

In early August, staff will fraise mow the driving range. The process tills the soil, removing the top layer of thatch and other material to help healthy turf regrow.

This fall, a new irrigation system will be installed on the South Course. It will help keep the turf healthy and help with weed control.

Lake Hefner Golf Club is one of Oklahoma City’s five public golf courses. Visit okcgolf.com for more.

The city has already replaced the Lincoln Park clubhouse and has started work on Earlywine. Also well under construction at the James E. Stewart Golf Course in northeast OKC.

Now, attention is being turned to replacing the clubhouse at Lake Hefner Golf Course and AHMM has been selected as the architects.

AHMM submitted a very preliminary concept which incorporates mid-century elements in a 2-level design to provide views of the lake.

Final design will happen in 2022 with construction starting thereafter.


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My concern is the large A frame roof with skylights. The wind from Lake Hefner can be ripping at times. I would hate the for that style of roof to turn out like the former Mutt's on 23rd street.

I have very strong sentimental ties to the old clubhouse, although as you can tell by the photos it really is in need of an upgrade.

My family moved to Oklahoma and bought a house very nearby the year before the clubhouse was christened. My dad was an avid and pretty good golfer and this was his home course when I was growing up. He would occasionally take me along and it was a big thing to a little kid to be included with his golf buddies. I remember getting milk with ice at that snack bar.

Later, after my dad passed, I inherited his clubs took up the sport myself; I often played that course.


Looking forward to having something really great on this spot but will miss the old building.

I am looking forward to the new clubhouse. As a frequent user of the OKC Trail system I can tell you that the new Lincoln Park Clubhouse is a fabulous place to stop and get a quick bite after a long ride, run or walk. I anticipate the Lake Hefner clubhouse would get a lot more use since the Bert Cooper Trail is so busy.

^

And the current setup is not only dated and limited, it almost completely ignores its lake setting.

The new facility should provide terraces and views that lots of people would enjoy, not just the golfers.


In many ways, Lake Hefner is still far underutilized and underappreciated.

Good point Pete. The Lincoln Park Clubhouse has a beautiful view of the course from the second floor. It is truly a lovely place to enjoy a nice rest on the trail.

The nicer rooms at the clubhouse at Lincoln Park are available for private events and I'm sure that would be the case here as well.

I love Lincoln but I have a strong sentimental attachment to Hefner, and know tons of people who feel the same way.

I think this is terrific. Hefner's courses deserve a nice updated clubhouse. Of course, I still haven't been to Lincoln since they put in the new clubhouse, and I barely ever play golf anymore, but Hefner has long been my favorite municipal course in these parts.

I have feelings for the clubhouse myself. Hefner is where I learned to play and played most Saturdays for many years. But it hasn't really been updated in a looooooong time and it does really need it.

I live nearby and really like to have an early morning breakfast. It's good and the view has been "OK" or so.

I hope they continue with good breakfast fare and better the view.
.

Hefner needs the update, but I hope it doesn’t mess up the food. Love their burgers and the stew.

My concern is the large A frame roof with skylights. The wind from Lake Hefner can be ripping at times. I would hate the for that style of roof to turn out like the former Mutt's on 23rd street.

My concern for the large skylights is the amount of hot sunlight beating through them during June, July, and August, particularly in the afternoon. Even with A/C going full blast it can still get uncomfortable sitting in the Sun.

My concern for the large skylights is the amount of hot sunlight beating through them during June, July, and August, particularly in the afternoon. Even with A/C going full blast it can still get uncomfortable sitting in the Sun.
Proper skylights filter the UV and have good thermal properties. It isn’t like putting regular glass up.
And proper engineers size the units according to the load. This isn’t being designed by amateurs.

Pete, has there been any movement on this project?

No, not much is going to happen until later next year.

New Hefner clubhouse moving forward (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=985-New-Hefner-clubhouse-moving-forward)

On Tuesday, City Council will consider a plan to demolish the existing clubhouse at Lake Hefner Golf Course and move forward with plans for a new 2-story facility.


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The original clubhouse was built in the 1950s with improvements dedicated in 1964. The new $8 million design by AHMM Architects will be constructed in two phases: a new two-story clubhouse with retail pro shop, grab & go food and beverage, office space, locker/shower rooms and restrooms and a 2nd-level restaurant and bar with a terrace that will provide views of the lake.

A future phase includes a two-story addition and demolition of the existing clubhouse and cart storage facility. The new building will include a banquet room and cart storage.

Funding will come from a 2017 general obligation and other sources.

Construction is scheduled to start in the spring of 2024 and the first phase is to be completed in the fall of 2025.



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this will be a great project

The existing facility is in really bad shape.

Having a nice bar and restaurant on the 2nd level with views of the lake will be a great addition.

What's going where the old clubhouse is? More parking?

What's going where the old clubhouse is? More parking?

Yes. The entire old parking lot will be redone.

Looks like they are also leaving room in the site plan for future expansion, if the opportunity arises.

Edit: we’ll, duh, they even show “future phase” in the conceptual at the top of the page.

This is the final configuration showing the old clubhouse removed:

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The existing facility is in really bad shape.

Having a nice bar and restaurant on the 2nd level with views of the lake will be a great addition.

Agree. I go over and eat lunch occasionally (very good burgers) and it is like stepping back in time. These will be great improvements.

This has long been needed but man I would really love them to get the course in a more playable and better conditioned state. I avoid going to Hefner in favor of Lincoln because it’s so bad out there.

This has long been needed but man I would really love them to get the course in a more playable and better conditioned state. I avoid going to Hefner in favor of Lincoln because it’s so bad out there.

I recently played the "new and improved" south course--it should not be open.

I recently played the "new and improved" south course--it should not be open.

Something had to go wrong with the "update" of the South Course. Not sure how much was spent, but it was closed for well over a year for work, which ended up being about half a year longer than they planned. I drove by this week and they are already laying new sod in parts of the course (at least from what I saw on hole 10). After all of the money they spent and closing the course for a year, it is still the worst muni course in the city. I wish they would have raised the money and actually done a renovation instead of whatever it is that they did.

Press release:

*********

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Construction on Lake Hefner Golf Clubhouse to begin in 2024
9/15/23

Construction is expected to begin in mid to late 2024 on a new clubhouse at Lake Hefner Golf Course, 4491 S. Lake Hefner Dr.

The modern, 18,000-square-foot, two-story building will showcase panoramic views of the golf course and Lake Hefner. It will include a pro shop, grab-and-go food and beverage area, office space, locker/shower rooms, a restaurant/bar and meeting space and will connect to the existing parking lot and cart trails.

The material palette for the clubhouse will highlight the surrounding area. Limestone walls will mirror the Lakeshore riprap and dam, while the oxide metal contains natural hues that will contrast against the Oklahoma City sky.

The existing clubhouse and cart storage will remain open until the new building is complete.

The architectural firm Allford Hall Monaghan Morris worked with the Oklahoma City Public Works Department, Parks & Recreation Department and the Golf Commission to design a clubhouse for all Lake Hefner users and City residents by appealing to more than just golfers.

“This clubhouse will be different from traditional golf clubhouses as it will cater to golfers and the public,” said Parks and Recreation Director Melinda McMillan-Miller. “The modern facility will provide a new place for residents to dine, shop, and experience Lake Hefner’s beautiful water views.”

The $11.8 million clubhouse is funded through the Better Streets Safer City 2017 General Obligation Bond program.

This project is out for bid.

Hopefully we see some movement this fall.

Project is getting more funding: https://journalrecord.com/2024/08/oklahoma-city-council-approves-8m-boost-for-mega-site-and-golf-clubhouse/

Project is getting more funding: https://journalrecord.com/2024/08/oklahoma-city-council-approves-8m-boost-for-mega-site-and-golf-clubhouse/


good deal ..


Golf clubhouse
Council members also allocated an additional $1.6 million in 2017 GO bond funds toward construction of a new $11.8 million clubhouse at Lake Hefner Golf Club.

The initial project cost was estimated in 2017. Inflation has caused a significant increase in construction material prices and bids received on July 3 all exceeded the available budget, City Manager Craig Freeman noted.

In a separate action, the council approved a $1,074,975 contract with architectural firm Allford Hall Monaghan Morris for the project.

A formal groundbreaking ceremony for the 18,000-square-foot, two-story clubhouse is set for Aug. 29. Completion is expected in early 2026.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge about golf, I don't play it, so I still have a lot to learn. From my perspective, $11.8 million is a substantial amount that could be invested in something that benefits a larger portion of the community. For example, $11.8 million could be used to acquire the Gold Dome and transform it into a public venue, such as a library, or something else. The Belle Isle Library is a great example; it benefits that neighborhood tremendously. This would be a better investment for the city, especially considering the negative impact of having an eyesore in a prime location. That’s just one example. My question is: is there any way to recoup some of that $11.8 million and allocate it to other projects, or will additional funds be required to maintain that facility in the future?

Please excuse my lack of knowledge about golf, I don't play it, so I still have a lot to learn. From my perspective, $11.8 million is a substantial amount that could be invested in something that benefits a larger portion of the community. For example, $11.8 million could be used to acquire the Gold Dome and transform it into a public venue, such as a library, or something else. The Belle Isle Library is a great example; it benefits that neighborhood tremendously. This would be a better investment for the city, especially considering the negative impact of having an eyesore in a prime location. ThatÂ’s just one example. My question is: is there any way to recoup some of that $11.8 million and allocate it to other projects, or will additional funds be required to maintain that facility in the future?

The good news is that they are not mutually exclusive in the same way that improvements to the city's golf course facilities didn't prevent the Belle Isle Library project. In fact, they are both funded by the same GO Bond approved by voters. They both benefit the community, but in different ways. I don't know the actual numbers, but Hefner is a heavily used course, and I was once told it is the most played course in the city (don't know if that's true or not). So, it certainly serves a lot people in the community. The courses are not free to play, so they do have operational income. Whether that results in a net profit to the city, I do not know. Things like the restaurant and the pro shop are open to and serve the whole community, not just those playing golf. Municipal golf courses are very common and it's nice for those that do want to play golf, but can't afford or want a country club membership to have access to a course. It's comparable to any recreation facility owned and maintained by the municipality.

The Gold Dome is a different animal, of course, but there are probably mechanisms the city can use to encourage or facilitate development. In an opportunity cost analysis, it probably makes more sense to compare it to what funds and methods are used to maintain and develop historic / landmark type buildings. Not sure if bond issues typically address such things. They're usually used for infrastructure projects and the city's librarys and golf courses are generally viewed as recreational, educational, and / or entertainment infrastructure. Not every project is going to serve every person's interests or needs, just as everyone doesn't use every road or highway infrastructure funded by Bond issues. There's really just no way to do that, obviously.

Reminder that a new TIF district was just established that would encompass the Gold Dome.

OKC and the state have a bunch of economic incentives and funding sources.

I don't utilize senior fitness centers, splash pads in public parks, skate parks, soccer fields or many other public amenities, but I'm glad we have them for people whose needs or tastes are different from my own. Economically competitive and socially healthy cities offer diverse options that may or may not appeal to everyone. Plus, as BDP mentions above, golf is a rare public amenity that generates significant revenue to cover its own expense. Quality municipal golf courses are frankly a must-have for any major city.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge about golf, I don't play it, so I still have a lot to learn. From my perspective, $11.8 million is a substantial amount that could be invested in something that benefits a larger portion of the community. For example, $11.8 million could be used to acquire the Gold Dome and transform it into a public venue, such as a library, or something else. The Belle Isle Library is a great example; it benefits that neighborhood tremendously. This would be a better investment for the city, especially considering the negative impact of having an eyesore in a prime location. That’s just one example. My question is: is there any way to recoup some of that $11.8 million and allocate it to other projects, or will additional funds be required to maintain that facility in the future?

I don't play golf and don't really understand the attraction. But, I do know it is a well-liked activity that it enjoyed by a large percentage of our population. Another part of being a well-rounded city and region. There are a large number of people involved with deciding how to spend our tax dollars, and this project was carefully vetted. I trust mu civic leadership.

I think the Gold Dome is a neato Mid-Century building. I also think is poorly designed for any current use, and has been horribly abused via incompetent maintenance that makes it almost impossible to save and reuse. I don't think it is more worthy than a long time and popular civic outdoor life area.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge about golf, I don't play it, so I still have a lot to learn. From my perspective, $11.8 million is a substantial amount that could be invested in something that benefits a larger portion of the community. For example, $11.8 million could be used to acquire the Gold Dome and transform it into a public venue, such as a library, or something else. The Belle Isle Library is a great example; it benefits that neighborhood tremendously. This would be a better investment for the city, especially considering the negative impact of having an eyesore in a prime location. That’s just one example. My question is: is there any way to recoup some of that $11.8 million and allocate it to other projects, or will additional funds be required to maintain that facility in the future?

the money to rebuild this club house (and the other ones OKC owns) were line items in the 2017 GO bond election so no

OBJECT_ID Location Proposition Section Budget_Amount
285 Melrose Park PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities Improve Existing Parks $1,100,000.00
286 Macklanburg Park PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities Improve Existing Parks $1,100,000.00
287 North Rotary Park PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities Improve Existing Parks $1,000,000.00
288 South Lakes Park PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities Improve Existing Parks $2,825,000.00
289 Earlywine Park Golf Clubhouse PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities Public Golf Facilities $10,450,000.00
290 Taylor Park PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities Improve Existing Parks $1,100,000.00
291 Wheeler Park PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities Improve Existing Parks $2,675,000.00
292 Douglass Park PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities New Parks $17,520,000.00
293 Washington Park PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities Improve Existing Parks $650,000.00
294 Douglass Park James Stewart Golf PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities Public Golf Facilities $5,500,000.00
295 Hefner Golf Clubhouse PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities Public Golf Facilities $11,880,000.00
296 Woodson Park PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities New Parks $10,800,000.00
297 Acquire and develop new neighborhood park in Wards 3, 4 and 8 PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities New Parks $10,000,000.00
298 Lincoln Park- Softball Hall of Fame Stadium improvements PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities New Parks $27,500,000.00
299 NW Oklahoma City - location to be determined PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities New Parks $5,000,000.00
300 Bricktown Ballpark Improvements PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities Improve Existing Parks $4,625,000.00
301 Will Rogers Park PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities New Parks $2,000,000.00
302 119th from May to Chelsea Chase PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities New Trails $700,000.00
303 Trail improvements along the S Grand Blvd Trail from the Oklahoma River and I-44 to E Reno near I-40 PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities Existing Trails $660,000.00
304 Greenway extending from Harvey and NW 22nd to NW 37th and Francis by following natural water features as possible PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities New Trails $1,325,000.00
305 Trail from Agnew across the Oklahoma River on abandoned rail PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities New Trails $1,900,000.00
306 In the vicinity of NW Expressway and W Wilshire Boulevard PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities New Trails $550,000.00
307 Trail signage PROP 5 - Parks and Rec Facilities Trail Wayfinding and Signage $3,300,000.00

Reminder that a new TIF district was just established that would encompass the Gold Dome.

OKC and the state have a bunch of economic incentives and funding sources.

I think it's on the National Register of Historic Places, so some federal incentives are probably in play as well.

At this point, I think it would make a cool Route 66 museum. But I don't know how bad of shape it's in.

Probably wrong thread to get too heavily into it here, though.

There should have been some funding earmarked to go towards the OKC and Putnam City High Schools to create or expand their golf teams.

My high school golf team is what hooked me.

There should have been some funding earmarked to go towards the OKC and Putnam City High Schools to create or expand their golf teams.

My high school golf team is what hooked me.

not from the city of OKC ...

There should have been some funding earmarked to go towards the OKC and Putnam City High Schools to create or expand their golf teams.

My high school golf team is what hooked me.

I don't know if they still do, but when I was in high school, the public courses gave our golf team free buckets of balls to hit on the range.

I don't know if they still do, but when I was in high school, the public courses gave our golf team free buckets of balls to hit on the range.

That's how it was in Tulsa. We'd go play at LaFortune, Page Belcher, and Mohawk which are owned by Tulsa county.

There should have been some funding earmarked to go towards the OKC and Putnam City High Schools to create or expand their golf teams.

My high school golf team is what hooked me.

It would seem that improving the public courses and facilities (which includes training facilities), would directly benefit OKC and PC school golf programs.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge about golf, I don't play it, so I still have a lot to learn. From my perspective, $11.8 million is a substantial amount that could be invested in something that benefits a larger portion of the community. For example, $11.8 million could be used to acquire the Gold Dome and transform it into a public venue, such as a library, or something else. The Belle Isle Library is a great example; it benefits that neighborhood tremendously. This would be a better investment for the city, especially considering the negative impact of having an eyesore in a prime location. That’s just one example. My question is: is there any way to recoup some of that $11.8 million and allocate it to other projects, or will additional funds be required to maintain that facility in the future?

Just because you don't play, doesn't mean there aren't a ton of people here and from surrounding communities that use all the courses on a day to day basis. The OKC metro has some very high quality municipal courses. The only thing really lacking at our municipal courses have been the dated club houses and other facilities but the great thing is that most of those were built between the 50s-70s and we're just now replacing them. Seems like a pretty decent investment.

After the renovations at the 5 OKC courses, Kickingbird in Edmond and Jimmy Austin in Norman a few years ago (Jimmy is kind of an outlier in this group but is still public), I would be willing to bet that our municipal/public courses and facilities will collectively be some of the best in the nation among metro areas, especially per capita (which is important when it comes to getting tee times). These are all going to be (or already are) country club quality facilities, and, in several cases country club quality courses, that everyone has access to for a reasonable price (except for Jimmy Austin which is pretty expensive and tough to get on if you're not an OU student or member). Having very nice and accessible public courses is a pretty big time amenity that not every city has in abundance and is a nice selling point for OKC.

That's how it was in Tulsa. We'd go play at LaFortune, Page Belcher, and Mohawk which are owned by Tulsa county.

pretty sure that belcher and mohawk are owned by the city of tulsa

Just because you don't play, doesn't mean there aren't a ton of people here and from surrounding communities that use all the courses on a day to day basis. The OKC metro has some very high quality municipal courses. The only thing really lacking at our municipal courses have been the dated club houses and other facilities but the great thing is that most of those were built between the 50s-70s and we're just now replacing them. Seems like a pretty decent investment.

After the renovations at the 5 OKC courses, Kickingbird in Edmond and Jimmy Austin in Norman a few years ago (Jimmy is kind of an outlier in this group but is still public), I would be willing to bet that our municipal/public courses and facilities will collectively be some of the best in the nation among metro areas, especially per capita (which is important when it comes to getting tee times). These are all going to be (or already are) country club quality facilities, and, in several cases country club quality courses, that everyone has access to for a reasonable price (except for Jimmy Austin which is pretty expensive and tough to get on if you're not an OU student or member). Having very nice and accessible public courses is a pretty big time amenity that not every city has in abundance and is a nice selling point for OKC.

I fully support public amenities, so don't get me wrong. What I’m suggesting is that we should prioritize investing public funds in projects with the highest impact—addressing immediate needs and benefiting the greatest number of people first, then working down the list. Transparency is crucial in this process. Is there a way to assess how many visitors a facility accommodates annually, the revenue it generates, the expenses incurred, and its overall economic impact on the neighborhood and the city? With this data, we can make more informed decisions about where to allocate funds—whether it’s for Golf Course A versus Golf Course B, the south side versus the north side, or the east versus the west, for example.

OKC isn’t an extremely wealthy city, and we have many challenges to address to attract businesses, families, and visitors, so it’s important to use our resources wisely. I’m confident that many initiatives could have a more significant impact than golf facilities, though I’m also certain that golf facilities offer more benefits than many other options. How does that list look? This seems like basic public investment strategy.

But I also understand that decisions about where to invest money aren’t always made this way. Like with MAPS, it often comes down to someone’s vision, and I accept that reality.

I fully support public amenities, so don't get me wrong. What I’m suggesting is that we should prioritize investing public funds in projects with the highest impact—addressing immediate needs and benefiting the greatest number of people first, then working down the list. Transparency is crucial in this process. Is there a way to assess how many visitors a facility accommodates annually, the revenue it generates, the expenses incurred, and its overall economic impact on the neighborhood and the city? With this data, we can make more informed decisions about where to allocate funds—whether it’s for Golf Course A versus Golf Course B, the south side versus the north side, or the east versus the west, for example.

OKC isn’t an extremely wealthy city, and we have many challenges to address to attract businesses, families, and visitors, so it’s important to use our resources wisely. I’m confident that many initiatives could have a more significant impact than golf facilities, though I’m also certain that golf facilities offer more benefits than many other options. How does that list look? This seems like basic public investment strategy.

But I also understand that decisions about where to invest money aren’t always made this way. Like with MAPS, it often comes down to someone’s vision, and I accept that reality.

Sounds to me that you have a personal vision of priorities and haven't researched much about how it is done in OKC. Watch the Mayor's "State of the City" address on YouTube, watch City Council meetings, hang out with the Chamber of Commerce people and City staff. There is a mind numbing amount of research and data out there.

I fully support public amenities, so don't get me wrong. What I’m suggesting is that we should prioritize investing public funds in projects with the highest impact—addressing immediate needs and benefiting the greatest number of people first, then working down the list. Transparency is crucial in this process. Is there a way to assess how many visitors a facility accommodates annually, the revenue it generates, the expenses incurred, and its overall economic impact on the neighborhood and the city? With this data, we can make more informed decisions about where to allocate funds—whether it’s for Golf Course A versus Golf Course B, the south side versus the north side, or the east versus the west, for example.

OKC isn’t an extremely wealthy city, and we have many challenges to address to attract businesses, families, and visitors, so it’s important to use our resources wisely. I’m confident that many initiatives could have a more significant impact than golf facilities, though I’m also certain that golf facilities offer more benefits than many other options. How does that list look? This seems like basic public investment strategy.

But I also understand that decisions about where to invest money aren’t always made this way. Like with MAPS, it often comes down to someone’s vision, and I accept that reality.

the GO bond issues are built with a task force aided by the public ..

they are then voted on prop by prop by the public ..

not in some back room ..

I fully support public amenities, so don't get me wrong. What I’m suggesting is that we should prioritize investing public funds in projects with the highest impact—addressing immediate needs and benefiting the greatest number of people first, then working down the list. Transparency is crucial in this process. Is there a way to assess how many visitors a facility accommodates annually, the revenue it generates, the expenses incurred, and its overall economic impact on the neighborhood and the city? With this data, we can make more informed decisions about where to allocate funds—whether it’s for Golf Course A versus Golf Course B, the south side versus the north side, or the east versus the west, for example.

OKC isn’t an extremely wealthy city, and we have many challenges to address to attract businesses, families, and visitors, so it’s important to use our resources wisely. I’m confident that many initiatives could have a more significant impact than golf facilities, though I’m also certain that golf facilities offer more benefits than many other options. How does that list look? This seems like basic public investment strategy.

But I also understand that decisions about where to invest money aren’t always made this way. Like with MAPS, it often comes down to someone’s vision, and I accept that reality.

I don't play golf except the occasional charity scramble. I personally could care less about the course BUT a lot of business people do and an amazing amount of business takes place on the golf course. Last time I played was with my banker closing a commercial loan. I know of least one business owner that moved here because it was easier to get tee times than it was in California, Pure speculation on my part but I would assume having nice courses are a draw for attracting new businesses and also young professionals to OKC. Part of a quality lifestyle.

Sounds to me that you have a personal vision of priorities and haven't researched much about how it is done in OKC. Watch the Mayor's "State of the City" address on YouTube, watch City Council meetings, hang out with the Chamber of Commerce people and City staff. There is a mind numbing amount of research and data out there.

I'm sure you're mingling with all the key players. I don't have a vision, I'm like decades behind you. Earlier, I asked a question: Is there a way to find a list of items with their associated impact factors? If you have that information, please share it with us. If you don't, once I find those, I'll share them with you, my best friend, Google, has been helping me. I'm confident that many studies have been conducted by smart people, which is why our Streetcar project has been so successful. But you know what could make it even better? Prioritizing something else with that money first, just to make a point.

pretty sure that belcher and mohawk are owned by the city of tulsa

Now that i think of it I think you are right. LaFortune and SouthLakes might be the county courses.