On Thursday I was driving on I-240. Along the curve at the Lawton exit I noticed the lane markers are so faded they seem almost invisible. Heading east they seem no better. How can this be safe? I would think federal regulations would kick in somewhere and require the state to have some level of adequate visibility.
How does ODOT get away with this?

It's the new normal. I think the state isn't buying the special reflective paint anymore, and just gets whatever is on sale at Ace Hardware. If you drive I-40 with any regularity, you soon notice places with the exact same problem, the lane markers are for all intents and purposes faded to nothing. You want some REAL fun, drive on I-40 near Meridian. During the construction they repainted lanes, then when the dust was settled they painted over SOME of the lane markers, and scraped up some of the others. In the right light, you can tell no difference between the painted markers, the painted-over markers, and the divots. Now add in all the areas where there are either no lights at all, or the lights are out, and we're about one step away from Mad Max driving rules.

^^^ This reminds me of the story about a man who went to work for the DOT painting lines on the highway. His 1st day on the job he painted over a mile’s worth of lines. On his 2nd day he only painted 1/2 mile. On his third day he only managed ¼ mile. At the end of that 3rd day the superintendant drove up and said “ on your 1st day you really did well. Over 1 mile. Your 2nd day only ½ mile, and only ¼ mile on your 3rd day. What happened?.”

The worker said “Sir, I really couldn’t help it. Each day I just kept getting farther and farther away from the paint bucket.”

Not to mention when it rains, those lines absolutely vanish. Oof.

Not to mention when it rains, those lines absolutely vanish. Oof.
Yes, completely. It's scary sometimes.

The disappearing lane markings are a problem all over the metro. Partially because so many drivers here can't stay between the lines.

Missouri DOT uses pavement markings that are made of thermoplastic material that is epoxied to the highway. Obviously they last a lot longer because they don't chip away at the edges like paint does. I've wondered why OkDOT doesn't use them, because it's not like we have to worry about plows scraping them up as much as MoDOT does.

I've seen them in a limited capacity in Norman, but it looks like just a test. You can tell when you see them because they have a hexagon pattern molded into them to increase traction.

Is a median being built on Western between NW 18th and 23rd? I drove on it today and saw that the pavement has been cut out in the middle.

Not sure what they're doing there. They previously did work on each side, then cleaned up and have now moved to the middle. I never figured out what they were doing on the sides either.

^^^^^^
They replaced curbs and sidewalks on both sides and made the crosswalks and entire sidewalk system ADA-compliant. Now they are installing medians with pedestrian refuges at crosswalks. The street is being brought down from four lanes to two with slip lanes at turns and with bicycle lanes.

This is/was the only four lane stretch between 16th and 50th; completely unnecessary and lended itself to unsafe speeds and driver behavior at merges. This is a huge improvement in safety for all modes.

There are electronic signs set up on Western stating that Western, just north of Reno, will be closed starting on the 7th (tomorrow). I'm guessing this is the start of the Boulevard construction?

Excuse me, not slip lane. Left turn lane (as opposed to center turn lane).

Okay, I hate to constantly complain about this, but seriously what is up with the streetlights not working/being on around here? Every time I drive home there are entire lengths of I-35, I-40, I-44... even 39th St. Expressway... where the lights aren't on. In other areas it's just a bunch of random lights that are out, but it's the dark stretches that really get me. It makes it nearly impossible to see when it's raining, too.

Same answer as last time. People steal the copper before the installers are even back at home base, and we're too damn dumb to use anything else apparently.

Okay, I hate to constantly complain about this, but seriously what is up with the streetlights not working/being on around here? Every time I drive home there are entire lengths of I-35, I-40, I-44... even 39th St. Expressway... where the lights aren't on. In other areas it's just a bunch of random lights that are out, but it's the dark stretches that really get me. It makes it nearly impossible to see when it's raining, too.

Report it:

https://okc.gov/residents/action-center/report

And keep reporting it. I believe somebody said that there's a dropdown for OG&E as a selection now, not sure how well it works WRT the problem actually getting to OG&E and them fixing it, though. Sucks we have to do this, seems like OG&E should have someone driving around the major highways putting all the broken/out streetlights on a list and fixing them (along with finding a permanent fix). I don't use the highways much at night, so I don't have much of a chance to report it, but if I notice any lights out, I will definitely report it/them.

Wonder if this is something that can be reported to the Corporation Commission too, although not sure how much good that would do...

Interesting article on the street light problems Tulsa's been having: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/repairs-cost-near-million-since-copper-thieves-began-killing-lights/article_47bddfd2-8bd0-540b-9fab-8cd5e4e9ea4b.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

Okay, I hate to constantly complain about this, but seriously what is up with the streetlights not working/being on around here? Every time I drive home there are entire lengths of I-35, I-40, I-44... even 39th St. Expressway... where the lights aren't on. In other areas it's just a bunch of random lights that are out, but it's the dark stretches that really get me. It makes it nearly impossible to see when it's raining, too.
I read an article that said they are going to start using “new” techniques to make it harder if thieves to steal the copper.

I read an article that said they are going to start using “new” techniques to make it harder if thieves to steal the copper.

I think the bigger problem is the thieves on Lincoln who refuse to pay for infrastructure while giving revenue breaks to the corporations who do not need it to operate a successful business.

I read an article that said they are going to start using “new” techniques to make it harder if thieves to steal the copper.

Shouldn't be that hard to do that - use aluminum like Tulsa (and probably many other) cities have done, and don't put access plates anywhere on the pole or make it impossible for anybody to access them without super-specialized expensive tools (yeah, I know, they'd have to figure out ways to maintain them, but surely someone somewhere has pulled this off).

Okay, I hate to constantly complain about this, but seriously what is up with the streetlights not working/being on around here? Every time I drive home there are entire lengths of I-35, I-40, I-44... even 39th St. Expressway... where the lights aren't on. In other areas it's just a bunch of random lights that are out, but it's the dark stretches that really get me. It makes it nearly impossible to see when it's raining, too.

OG&E actually maintains street and highway lighting, but they only send a crew out for repairs if they are notified there is a problem - they don't monitor the lighting at all. According to their website: To report a street light outage, please contact Customer Service from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. weekdays at 405-272-9741 (Oklahoma City) or 800-272-9741 (all other areas). We’ll do our best to get it working as quickly as possible.

Changing to aluminum in a system originally designed for copper could be very difficult. Let’s say a run of lights required #4 copper. That same run would require #2 or #1 aluminum. It’s probable that the conduits are not oversized originally and the larger aluminum conductors simply won’t fit. Definitely not by code and possibly not at all.

What was the reasoning behind letting OG&E handle this instead of ODOT?

What was the reasoning behind letting OG&E handle this instead of ODOT?

Unions.

Unions.
Truly?

What was the reasoning behind letting OG&E handle this instead of ODOT?
What I was told a long time ago was that at one time ODOT had to either buy a bunch of vehicles and equipment plus hire manpower to basically go into the electrical distribution business or contract it out. They decided to contract it out and OG&E was really the only local business qualified.

Truly?

I don't have inside information, but as I understand it, yes, truly. It's a matter of Bob can't tell me what to do, and Joe can't tell me what to do, but Henry is allowed to tell me what to do. So Bob and Joe have to submit requests to me via Henry. If Bob and/or Joe try to tell me what to do (or even worse, take it upon themselves to do it for me), there will be hell to pay. So if ODOT were to fulfill the dream of having people drive around to check lights, then they would be reporting them the same way, via the form/email/phone/highly trained carrier pigeon/smoke signals/whatever to OG&E.

It's really sad in the morning when the news shows a chopper shot of traffic & the roadway is not visible, just darkness. I report to OG&E both unlit light & poles that have knocked down all the time, they normally do fix them, but yes, it's an endless battle

maybe store the copper wiring in secure areas, with real security perhaps? would be much cheaper in the long run and the lights would stay on.

I wonder if we're having this problem here in the Seattle area (with many more meth/drug heads); I personally have not seen any lights off here. I wonder why it is so prevalent in OKC (and apparently Tulsa) when it's not here with our much larger population (and druggie) base.

Maybe OKC can benchmark on what Seattle/WSDOT does.

Changing to aluminum in a system originally designed for copper could be very difficult. Let’s say a run of lights required #4 copper. That same run would require #2 or #1 aluminum. It’s probable that the conduits are not oversized originally and the larger aluminum conductors simply won’t fit. Definitely not by code and possibly not at all.

I think you're making good point, since I assume Cu is a better conductor than Al so the wiring can be smaller. But one has to wonder why the long range transmissions wiring is Al and not Cu. Perhaps because Cu can't handle the voltage (would melt)?

Anyway, maybe time to invest in Al replacement - esp when they are doing reconstruction anyway and perhaps LED lighting for lower operation costs. Must be cheaper than having all of your Cu stolen then having to spend the same (or more) to replace it.

this is another idea OKC could get behind:

The Tulsa Police Department is also pushing to change state law to make it more difficult to sell stolen metals to scrap metal dealers.

I think you're making good point, since I assume Cu is a better conductor than Al so the wiring can be smaller. But one has to wonder why the long range transmissions wiring is Al and not Cu. Perhaps because Cu can't handle the voltage (would melt)?

Anyway, maybe time to invest in Al replacement - esp when they are doing reconstruction anyway and perhaps LED lighting for lower operation costs. Must be cheaper than having all of your Cu stolen then having to spend the same (or more) to replace it.
Aluminum weighs much less than copper, even when it's steel reinforced aluminum. If copper was used for transmission, I assume the distance between poles would have to be much shorter due to the extra weight (not only for the sake of the pole, but to keep the wire from breaking or stretching esp. when there's an ice storm). Copper wire is also more expensive than aluminum wire.

i cant believe this isn't getting more fanfare.
http://kfor.com/2017/12/04/odot-approves-contracts-to-ease-traffic-nightmares/
"The Dallas junction will also be getting another lane to ease construction along there.

That more than $5 million project will start no later than April 2."

NB and SB I-35 ramps will be widened for an additional lane. They're finally going to do something to this abominable interchange

i cant believe this isn't getting more fanfare.
http://kfor.com/2017/12/04/odot-approves-contracts-to-ease-traffic-nightmares/
"The Dallas junction will also be getting another lane to ease construction along there.

That more than $5 million project will start no later than April 2."

NB and SB I-35 ramps will be widened for an additional lane. They're finally going to do something to this abominable interchange

I hate what ODOT has done with this interchange, but this will help.

Is it called the "Dallas Junction" for historical reasons? The name never made sense to me, but I didn't grow up in OKC.

I'm not even sure what "Dallas Junction" might be referring to. I-35/240? I-35/235/40?

I-35/235/40
This one.

I'm not even sure what "Dallas Junction" might be referring to. I-35/240? I-35/235/40?

The latter.

I believe the name originated well before I-44 / I-240; When traveling along I-40 you'd see the I-35 south exits that with the Dallas name on them.

Glad to see the improvements here. Too bad this doesn't address I-235 to I-35, as 1 land is an exit only as SE 23rd (I think) so it is a bottleneck with only 1 true thru lane.

Glad to see the improvements here. Too bad this doesn't address I-235 to I-35, as 1 land is an exit only as SE 23rd (I think) so it is a bottleneck with only 1 true thru lane.

SE 15th. It wouldn't be a bottleneck if people knew how to use that lane UNTIL it becomes an exit lane.

The latter.

I believe the name originated well before I-44 / I-240; When traveling along I-40 you'd see the I-35 south exits that with the Dallas name on them.

I kind of figured that was the junction it had to be, but unless I totally missed it this project seems completely out of the blue. I've long been aware of the I-35/240 and I-235/44 and even I-35/44 projects, but this is the first I've heard of any planned changes to this one.

I prefer to call it the Crossroads of America because it is the only point in the country where two cross-national freeways meet (besides MSP, which isn't the same since I-35 actually splits). I-40 (Cal to N Carolina) and I-35 (Texas to Minnesota; really Mexico to Canada) meet at this crossroads; along with spur I-235.

There's no other crossroads like this in the nation.

"Receiving commission approval was a contract for a more than $5 million project in downtown Oklahoma City with a statewide impact. This project will modify portions of the I-35/I-235/I-40 junction, commonly known as the Dallas Junction, to add an extra north and southbound I-35 lane between M.L. King Ave./Eastern Ave. and S.E. 15th St. Currently, all I-35 traffic must move into a single exit lane to navigate through the junction with I-40, causing considerable traffic safety and congestion issues. The project is expected to begin in spring 2018 and take about five months to complete."

https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=38452

I kind of figured that was the junction it had to be, but unless I totally missed it this project seems completely out of the blue. I've long been aware of the I-35/240 and I-235/44 and even I-35/44 projects, but this is the first I've heard of any planned changes to this one.

Has been on the radar since they screwed the original rebuild in the late 70's. What moron thought that a major N-S Interstate highway could pass through a major interchange with only ONE LANE in each direction? By the 70's, they should have known better.

Since the cost is only $5 million, I'm assuming they are going to cram the additional lanes onto the existing Oklahoma River bridges with narrower than normal lanes. Once again we are settling for the cheap solution. Also, I haven't been able to figure out how they will handle 5 lanes down to 3 southbound before the SE15th exit. That's going to be a MAJOR cluster.

Has been on the radar since they screwed the original rebuild in the late 70's. What moron thought that a major N-S Interstate highway could pass through a major interchange with only ONE LANE in each direction? By the 70's, they should have known better.

Since the cost is only $5 million, I'm assuming they are going to cram the additional lanes onto the existing Oklahoma River bridges with narrower than normal lanes. Once again we are settling for the cheap solution. Also, I haven't been able to figure out how they will handle 5 lanes down to 3 southbound before the SE15th exit. That's going to be a MAJOR cluster.

I read exit lanes added only, north and southbound. I didn't see anything about new lanes on the bridge ? I think they might merge the exit lanes together before they hit the bridge southbound. The same could happen to the northbound exit also.

I read exit lanes added only, north and southbound. I didn't see anything about new lanes on the bridge ? I think they might merge the exit lanes together before they hit the bridge southbound. The same could happen to the northbound exit also.

Preliminary engineering drawings are linked below (warning, *giant* .pdf file). Sheet 1 shows the general edges of the project and sheets 40-44 give the new lane configurations.

On NB I-35, they're simply adding a second exit only lane to the right of the current exit only lane, meaning there will now be two exit only lanes NB I-35 to EB I-40. The new, right-most exit only lane will turn into an exit only for Eastern/MLK Ave. The new concrete will start just north of the Oklahoma River bridge and will continue all the way to the Eastern/MLK Ave. exit. NB I-35 will be painted for this additional exit only lane for starting 800 feet south of the north bank of the river, so I guess the bridge will have slightly narrower shoulders (you lose 6 feet on each side) than it currently does.

For SB I-35, a new left lane will be added (new concrete) starting just west of the ditch that crosses under Reno Ave. and I-35/I-40 just west of Bath Ave. This new left lane and the current left-most lane will act as two exit only lanes for SB I-35. These two lanes will continue to the north bank of the Oklahoma River. At that point the new concrete ends and there will be 5 lanes traversing the Oklahoma River southbound (currently there are four). That left-most lane will be asked to merge into the current left-most lane as the bridge is crossed, ending approximately 400 feet south of the south bank of the Oklahoma River.

http://www.odot.org/contracts/a2017/plans171116/500_1611_NHPPI-3500-(062)SS_3044406/000%20FULL%20FILE.pdf

tl;dr New lanes to be painted both directions on the I-35 Oklahoma River bridge, resulting in slightly narrower shoulders than are currently present.

^^^^ Thanks ^^^^

Ditto, thanks a lot for finding that file and linking it for us.

Has been on the radar since they screwed the original rebuild in the late 70's. What moron thought that a major N-S Interstate highway could pass through a major interchange with only ONE LANE in each direction .

The same one who only put one lane in each direction on I-44 at the Hefner Parkway. But I guess west bound I-44 has been somewhat improved in that area, although it can be harrowing at times merging with Parkway traffic and folks trying to exit 23rd St.

i wish they'd stripe the new lane so the left lane for I-35 S stays the exit only lane and the #2 lane can go south or stay on I-40 W. That would lower the number of lane changes needed.
sorry for the crudity of this drawing.

14313

I moved all the posts on the streetlight outages to its own thread:

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=43907

Southwest 119th at Western could use a bit of work. It is ROUGH right there at the crosswalk.

Southwest 119th at Western could use a bit of work. It is ROUGH right there at the crosswalk.

The whole intersection needs to be rebuilt with double left turn lanes for Western s/b to 119th e/b.

Was happy to see the resurfacing of Classen from 12th to 16th street as that road was in pretty bad shape. However, the new road surface seems to be much higher than the old one leaving massive potholes where the utility lids are. I thought I busted a tire I just hit one so hard.

Was happy to see the resurfacing of Classen from 12th to 16th street as that road was in pretty bad shape. However, the new road surface seems to be much higher than the old one leaving massive potholes where the utility lids are. I thought I busted a tire I just hit one so hard.

Manhole covers will be reset flush with the pavement. It requires concrete work that has to be done when it is warmer outside.

Does anyone know what's going on with the installation of new signage and/or sensors of some kind along I35 from I40 down to Norman? They've been pouring concrete for the bases of the signs for the last several weeks and are now starting to put our safety barrels. Just wondering what this project is all about.

Was happy to see the resurfacing of Classen from 12th to 16th street as that road was in pretty bad shape. However, the new road surface seems to be much higher than the old one leaving massive potholes where the utility lids are. I thought I busted a tire I just hit one so hard.

Also drive that area frequently, probably some sloppy path work; however, did find this on the recent GO Bonds approved September, 2017:

Object ID: 218: https://data.okc.gov/portal/page/viewer?datasetName=PROP%20%201%20-%20Streets&view=table
Along N Classen Avenue from NW 13th Street to NW 48th Street; and the area bounded by and including N Blackwelder Avenue, N Shartel Avenue, NW 30th Street, and NW 25th Street

PROP 1 - Streets Sidewalks $1,490,000.00

Also drive that area frequently, probably some sloppy path work; however, did find this on the recent GO Bonds approved September, 2017:

Object ID: 218: https://data.okc.gov/portal/page/viewer?datasetName=PROP%20%201%20-%20Streets&view=table
Along N Classen Avenue from NW 13th Street to NW 48th Street; and the area bounded by and including N Blackwelder Avenue, N Shartel Avenue, NW 30th Street, and NW 25th Street

PROP 1 - Streets Sidewalks $1,490,000.00

Yes! I believe Zach Nash (PR for the city) cleared up that what I mentioned was being addressed. It does indeed appear to be fixed.

Does anyone know what's going on with the installation of new signage and/or sensors of some kind along I35 from I40 down to Norman? They've been pouring concrete for the bases of the signs for the last several weeks and are now starting to put our safety barrels. Just wondering what this project is all about.

I was noticing this too. I wonder if it is part of the I-240/I-35 and I-235/I-35/I-40 interchange. Since the capacity of both of those are increasing, maybe they are adding additional signage to help get drivers into the proper lanes sooner.

message boards maybe?

Well, there are already message boards on I-35 so I doubt these are just for message boards. And the signs are on both NB and SB I35 all the way to Norman. I guess we'll find out soon what they're for!