Surplus money. What's your remedy...

Very simple remedy, spend it on one or more of the MAPS 3 projects that put in one of the requests for additional funds.

Very simple remedy, spend it on one or more of the MAPS 3 projects that put in one of the requests for additional funds.

I understand what you are saying. What I believe is really behind the surplus from MAPS 3 to MAP 4 (not that I agree) is this:

These so called surplus funds will give the MAPS 4 an early jump on construction. Which of the 16 projects will receive priority construction... The horse-shows here are committed to stay if a new facility is built. New coliseum will get additional funding from outside entities, like the existing hotel-motel tax. Could IFR return to OKC from Guthrie (Lazy E now owned by Gary McKinney, Texas group).

We approved the momentum with MAPS 2-3-4... At what point does MAPS projects pay off by attracting more out-of-state revenue that will allow us to beef up city's general fund. Before MAPS, we were stuck in this cycle of paying bills with nothing to generate or attract new revenue while the city's infrastructure aged...

Let's get real horse shows are moving to Fort Worth!!! 14,000 seats compare to 5,000 permanent seats. 450 million dollars compare to 89 million dollars. Were would you have your show at???

Let's get real horse shows are moving to Fort Worth!!! 14,000 seats compare to 5,000 permanent seats. 450 million dollars compare to 89 million dollars. Were would you have your show at???

There would be no way the city is going to build a Taj Mahal facility on par with Ft. Worths. The huge negative to the Ft. worth facility is space around it for stables, trailors, parking, access, etc.

Let's get real horse shows are moving to Fort Worth!!! 14,000 seats compare to 5,000 permanent seats. 450 million dollars compare to 89 million dollars. Were would you have your show at???

most are not moving to that building the usage fee would be too much ..... that was built to get concerts to ft worth

Very simple remedy, spend it on one or more of the MAPS 3 projects that put in one of the requests for additional funds.

Agreed. It's MAPs3 money so it should be spent on MAPs3 items. There is no shortage of possibilities for how to use it. I wrote a letter to my councilman yesterday and lined how it could go to each of the previous project. Although i suggested that the Fair Grounds NOT be considered since the Bennett was a failed project anyway. I'm still jaded that they built it the way they did (with columns) on purpose so they didn't have an unobstructed space so they could claim they still needed the arena project. Shady!!!

I'm guessing the vast majority of horse events held at State Fair Park are well served by a 5,000 seat arena. Wife and I have attended a couple during the last 10 years, or so, and crowds are usually 1,000 or so. Mainly participants, family and friends. Even just retired Formula 1 racing legend Michael Schumacher didn't draw any more that 1,500-2,000 when we saw him with his horse group in 2013.

The coliseum as proposed will have an attached "warm-up" arena with a livestock tunnel which in turn would be directly attached to the barn complex.

Pretty sure this is very different than the Ft. Worth arena which seems to be designed more like a traditional venue, similar to the Peake.


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Is that in the spot of the current arena?

Is that in the spot of the current arena?

The plan is to build the coliseum to the immediate southeast of the current arena.

Then, the arena will be demolished and the warm-up barn will take its place.

Ah okay

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I don't particularly care this area is being transformed into a horse centered venue, but I am offended the Fair Board thinks they are pulling a fast one on the people. Just say what you are doing. The fair is over and the Board is creating something different entirely. Just be honest about it!

I don't particularly care this area is being transformed into a horse centered venue, but I am offended the Fair Board thinks they are pulling a fast one on the people. Just say what you are doing. The fair is over and the Board is creating something different entirely. Just be honest about it!

what are you taling about ???

this arena will be used for all kinds of things ..

including the OKC Blue

New state fair arena sounds like a horse barn to me. Let's just move the stock yards to the fair grounds. If they only get 1000-1500 for horse shows why do they need a new arena???

what are you taling about ???

this arena will be used for all kinds of things ..

including the OKC Blue

At first i laughed because i thought you were being sarcastic knowing that the Fair is full of crap, but then i think you're being serious......

Thanks for the info & pics Pete. It allows you to see how the new coliseum and facilities will interact.

OKC doesn't need a Taj Mahal facility on par with Ft. Worth's as mugofbeer mentioned. The coliseum will have flexible seating where 1,500 won't feel out out-of-place in a 4,700 fixed seat venue & 2,600 lower/upper level retractable seats; instead of a 10,300 seat mammoth facility. As mentioned, the horse show events are committed to the new arena's parking & accommodations. It will be a boom to the Meridian hotel corridor.

Bennett Event Center will have modest accommodations for the exhibits OKC will attract.

The new coliseum will be home to high school basketball playoffs; possibly a home for the Oklahoma City Blue and have the flexibility to be used for amateur & AA ice hockey since the city has built its own dasher boards; also ice plants were installed in SFA, The Peake, Cox Convention Center (aka Myriad). The flexible coliseum won't have any trouble being booked for events once the doors open.

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Maximum seating capacity for the State Fair Coliseum (basketball) will be 7,300. IMO, this arena is not built for high school basketball playoffs; possibly some lower classes could be played there. Will this replacement facility accommodate the 11,000 that packed into the State Fair Arena.

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Will the OSSAA eventually move the high school payoffs to the 13,846 seat Cox Convention Center Arena. Where there will be an abundance of paid parking, restaurants, hotels and amenities to eventually lure the 5A and 6A playoffs from the 11,300 seat Mabee Center in Tulsa on a rotation basis. Tulsa doesn't have the flexibility downtown that OKC has with the Cox Convention Center. The Cox Convention Center Arena in Tulsa (former Tulsa Assembly Center) only seats 7,100 for basketball.

Now if you want to get into a bigger bidding war for high school basketball payoffs; Tulsa does have the 17,839 seat BOK Center vs. Oklahoma City's 18,203 seat Chesapeake Energy Arena.

I thought that for basketball, they could push it up to 11 with expando-bleachers?

Also, i dont think people would be happy with the constant parking nightmare these games being downtown would bring. The games overlap so you, in effect, have 2 games worth of cars parked at the same time as the crowds swap. And converting from free to paid parking would be a big downer for that. Not to mention that the Peak or the Myriad cannot come close to the low price the fair grounds arena costs. Now, will the fair jack the price up when the new one is built? We'll see.

Even the new arena has a horse logo displayed prominently on the front. I have no problem with all the equine activities, they bring a lot of people and dollars to our city. Please however stop calling all of this "State Fair. The "fair" is gone.

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Maximum seating capacity for the State Fair Coliseum (basketball) will be 7,300. IMO, this arena is not built for high school basketball playoffs; possibly some lower classes could be played there. Will this replacement facility accommodate the 11,000 that packed into the State Fair Arena.

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Will the OSSAA eventually move the high school payoffs to the 13,846 seat Cox Convention Center Arena. Where there will be an abundance of paid parking, restaurants, hotels and amenities to eventually lure the 5A and 6A playoffs from the 11,300 seat Mabee Center in Tulsa on a rotation basis. Tulsa doesn't have the flexibility downtown that OKC has with the Cox Convention Center. The Cox Convention Center Arena in Tulsa (former Tulsa Assembly Center) only seats 7,100 for basketball.

Now if you want to get into a bigger bidding war for high school basketball payoffs; Tulsa does have the 17,839 seat BOK Center vs. Oklahoma City's 18,203 seat Chesapeake Energy Arena.

The Cox Convention Center Arena in Tulsa doesn't exist anymore. It's been converted to additional convention space along with a new convention center entrance. The space opens next month.

Even the new arena has a horse logo displayed prominently on the front. I have no problem with all the equine activities, they bring a lot of people and dollars to our city. Please however stop calling all of this "State Fair. The "fair" is gone.

That horse logo is a part of the official State Fair Park logo, IIRC. All the signage I see around the property features a full horse in that art style just above the State Fair Park lettering.

That's correct Dob, they did demolish the arena portion to create more ballroom and convention space; that will force more events needing arena seating to the BOK Center.

Back to our State Fair Coliseum, unless they go back to their original plans to where they had an upper deck platform to add risers to all sides; there is no way they are going to get anywhere close to 8,000 in there for events.

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Original 2016 design for State Fair Arena replacement seating 10,000.

The coliseum is being designed to make those smaller attended events look full with 4,700 fixed seats not look so spacious with 1,500 people in attendance. This is the advantage OKC will have over a Ft. Worth style 14,000 seat arena in addition to the multiple barns & parking on the old All Sports Stadium site to accommodate the sea of trailers parked for various horse show events.

Horse barn is correct. No basketball, no hockey, just a horse barn. We no longer have a fair grounds, just horse barns.

I'm suddenly wondering when the horse was added to the state fair logo. Has it always been there?

Horse barn is correct. No basketball, no hockey, just a horse barn. We no longer have a fair grounds, just horse barns.

OMG Miracle121, I'm afraid your 'horse barns' evolution has substance--240 acres under roof. Oklahoma City will have a 440 acre grounds to grow its 'Horse Capital of the World' brand.'

What was once a decent fairgrounds 50 years ago has slowly morphed into the world's largest Equine Exposition Estates.

Horse barn is correct. No basketball, no hockey, just a horse barn. We no longer have a fair grounds, just horse barns.

Yup

Horse barn is correct. No basketball, no hockey, just a horse barn. We no longer have a fair grounds, just horse barns.
I'm not defending the State Fair folks, but as a transplant from a rural area I thought that was mostly what a fair was. Agricultural trade show with a ferris wheel and unhealthy food.

The State Fair of Oklahoma runs 10 days a year, plus a week for set up and a week for tear down. The Fair Board is committed to keeping it busy throughout the year. State Fair Park has events 50 weeks a year, on average, and the horse activities have not kept most other users out.

I think 7,000 is a good seating number that could use better facilities than currently exist. There is little demand in Oklahoma City for basketball or hockey with over 7,000 attendance that can't be satisfied by the Chesapeake Energy Arena (or possibly Cox Convention Center Arena).

I have nothing against horse shows, I think it's great that we get tax revenue off of them. The new arena should be a multi-purpose facility, it's paid for with tax payers money. Everyone doesn't like horse shows, some people would like to see an ECHL hockey team play in the new arena or state high school basketball playoffs be played there. Not just a horse barn.

I have nothing against horse shows, I think it's great that we get tax revenue off of them. The new arena should be a multi-purpose facility, it's paid for with tax payers money. Everyone doesn't like horse shows, some people would like to see an ECHL hockey team play in the new arena or state high school basketball playoffs be played there. Not just a horse barn.

I don't recall ever hearing or reading that the new arena can't accommodate either basketball or hockey. Am I missing something?

I have nothing against horse shows, I think it's great that we get tax revenue off of them. The new arena should be a multi-purpose facility, it's paid for with tax payers money. Everyone doesn't like horse shows, some people would like to see an ECHL hockey team play in the new arena or state high school basketball playoffs be played there. Not just a horse barn.

:yeahthat:

Don't mean to derail the subject; however, a 7,300 maximum capacity arena will be too small for the 2A, 3A & 4A high schools who played in what was known as 'The Big House.' Those teams brought the who community when their high school both boys & girls team played at the SFA.

The State Fair Coliseum will not be large enough to handle those events. Oklahoma City's central location is ripe for the playoff classes we host.

Norman's Lloyd Noble Center (11,528 seat capacity) would be in a better position to host the playoffs than the State Fair Coliseum. Will we ever get to host 5A & 6A classes which are played at Mabee Center @ Oral Roberts University (11,300 seat capacity).

I know downtown is a parking panacea (paid parking will benefit) if the playoffs were moved to Cox Convention Center Arena; however the coliseum doesn't have the capacity to handle what 'The Big House' accommodated.

Also, I don't see OKC getting rid of the Cox Convention Center within the next 10 years; hate to disappoint many of my forum friends, IMO, it will be renovated (MAPS 5) with new seats, remodeled exhibition hall and used as a back up for the new Oklahoma City convention center.

I don't think the Cox Convention Center will be torn down anytime soon, but I would be surprised if it is renovated.

Don't mean to derail the subject; however, a 7,300 maximum capacity arena will be too small for the 2A, 3A & 4A high schools who played in what was known as 'The Big House.' Those teams brought the who community when their high school both boys & girls team played at the SFA.

The State Fair Coliseum will not be large enough to handle those events. Oklahoma City's central location is ripe for the playoff classes we host.

Norman's Lloyd Noble Center (11,528 seat capacity) would be in a better position to host the playoffs than the State Fair Coliseum. Will we ever get to host 5A & 6A classes which are played at Mabee Center @ Oral Roberts University (11,300 seat capacity).

I know downtown is a parking panacea (paid parking will benefit) if the playoffs were moved to Cox Convention Center Arena; however the coliseum doesn't have the capacity to handle what 'The Big House' accommodated.

Also, I don't see OKC getting rid of the Cox Convention Center within the next 10 years; hate to disappoint many of my forum friends, IMO, it will be renovated (MAPS 5) with new seats, remodeled exhibition hall and used as a back up for the new Oklahoma City convention center.

So, how many people attend "The Big House" events? I thought the Norick Arena held about 8,000 for basketball currently? I recall reading that the high school tournaments were still going to be a priority for the new arena.

Don't mean to derail the subject; however, a 7,300 maximum capacity arena will be too small for the 2A, 3A & 4A high schools who played in what was known as 'The Big House.' Those teams brought the who community when their high school both boys & girls team played at the SFA.

The State Fair Coliseum will not be large enough to handle those events. Oklahoma City's central location is ripe for the playoff classes we host.

Norman's Lloyd Noble Center (11,528 seat capacity) would be in a better position to host the playoffs than the State Fair Coliseum. Will we ever get to host 5A & 6A classes which are played at Mabee Center @ Oral Roberts University (11,300 seat capacity).

I know downtown is a parking panacea (paid parking will benefit) if the playoffs were moved to Cox Convention Center Arena; however the coliseum doesn't have the capacity to handle what 'The Big House' accommodated.

Also, I don't see OKC getting rid of the Cox Convention Center within the next 10 years; hate to disappoint many of my forum friends, IMO, it will be renovated (MAPS 5) with new seats, remodeled exhibition hall and used as a back up for the new Oklahoma City convention center.

I think the Big House is suitable for all championship games less than 6A, 7300, is still larger than the gyms the schools play, if the attendance does swell past the 7300 the colleges and the Chesapeake arena should step up and house the championship games

If OKC had a ECHL hockey team and was playing the Tulsa Oiler they would have well over 7300 fans. Let's not forget those games in the Cox center(Myraid), when 13399 was not enough seats!!

An ECHL franchise since Wichita & Tulsa would be instant rivals. Whether a team is better suited at the Cox Convention Center vs. the State Fair Coliseum remains to be answered.

Bricktown Entertainment District has the before & after game amenities that helps support AAA baseball's Dodgers and NBA Thunder basketball.

IIFC the Cox Convention Center has an ice plant; both facilities would probably need new dasher boards of which the city is capable of building. Zamboni (no less than $12,000), last game I attended was an AHL Barons game inside the Cox--they had two Zamboni machines working simultaneously.

An ice plant would have to be installed at the State Fair Coliseum ($250,000 - $650,000); don't recall any decent restaurants in the fairgrounds area other than fast foods; nothing respectable stays open after 9 p.m., the same time Chuck House, Pappy's BBQ & Cocina Marin Mexican between Meridian, May & Reno avenues to N.W. 10th Street closes.

No ECHL hockey team will move into the Cox Arena (Myraid) without the city being able to tell them how long the arena will be there. The city keeps talking about tearing it down and the OKC Blue has priority on available dates. I agree that the Cox Arena is the best place for a ECHL franchise. Maybe the OKC Blue could move to the new fairgrounds arena?

OKC will use the Cox as a back up to the new convention center; there's 100,000 sq. feet of exhibition space; 16,000 sq. feet of ballroom space--predict they will never demolish the Cox Center because there will be a need for more hotel rooms once the new CC opens and let's not forget the 994 underground parking spaces.

The G-League OKC Blue & an ECHL franchise could share the Cox Convention Center Arena. The Blue rarely draws over 1,200 fans, whereas the Blazers had a solid following of 5,500. NBA Thunder ($64 million annual economic impact) ended the season with a continuous sellout streak of 414 sellouts since 2010.

Again, our 440 acre fairgrounds is primed for the horse related shows with the Bennett Events Center as a support exhibit hall for related events.

State Fair Board Trust's aim is to break-even or better on the annual fair; continue to keep and maintain the horse events that pump an estimated $125 million annual economic impact into our city--higher than the NBA Thunder.

“Since 1999, the number of Californians departing the Golden State for Oklahoma has outnumbered those going the opposite direction by more than 21,000...The influx of Californians is a sign of Oklahoma’s growing economic prowess.” USA Today

Source: https://www.newmarklsb.com/uploads/media-resources/1519322127_1gfeklgnllg0qp6.pdf

The G-League OKC Blue & an ECHL franchise could share the Cox Convention Center Arena.


except that when an ECHL team was in town and looking... the city said it could not give a long term answer with regards to the Cox Center... and that NHL Parent club ownership group was just looking for a 7 year commitment that they would have a place to play... this was 2 years ago, and so we are talking about 6 more seasons from now... so they city couldn't confirm it would exist by 2026

City leadership considers the Reno and Meridian corridor to be acceptable for food & lodging to support the State Fair Park area. Seems to work okay for the high school basketball tournament and other events currently held there. 50 weeks out of the year.

Although the Blazers drew some large crowds back in the 1990s, it is commonly believed that they were achieved by free tickets, dollar tickets and (many times) dollar beer. Especially the last few years. ECHL average attendance is in the 4,000 range IIRC. And I think the Blazers would do well in the new arena. The best thing that could happen to them is a sold out house for the Tulsa games generating demand for higher prices.

Ice rink events that are not hockey have done well at the Norick Arena in the past, and I think they will continue to do so in the new arena.

I love the State Fair Park area because it had done well by me for the 38 years I have been in business 2 blocks from there. A business that draws zero benefit from the activities there, by the way. But there is benefit is asking 3 million Oklahomans "Do you know where the fairgrounds are?" and getting instant familiarity by telling them I am 2 blocks from there.

I also love Blazers hockey and the Incomparable Myriad. I just want ECHL hockey to be in OKC and I don't care if it is downtown or the fairgrounds.

How about a "Blue-Blazers Doubleheader"? The Blue and Blazers playing basketball at 4PM and hockey at 7, with one of them at the Cox Center and the other at Chesapeake Energy Arena?

Would love to see a OKC Blazers vs Tulsa Oiler hockey game at the fairgrounds or downtown. Mayor Holt let make it happen.

Amen, Miracle...

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An ECHL Oklahoma City franchise in the mix with Tulsa & Wichita will provide a 3 city triangle rivalry.

Really feel that our city is ready to take on AA level ice hockey heightened & energized with the rivalries. As Miracle mentioned at the new State Fair Coliseum or the downtown cox convention center doesn't matter--let's make it happen.

An OKC franchise could be playing in a 7,200 seat new coliseum at State Fair Park or a 13,395 seat arena inside the Cox Convention Center.

My gut feelings tell me that you get a franchise here in 2021 playing downtown. We now have 655,000 in our urban core (25th largest U.S. city) and 1.4 million in the MSA, 150,000 more that we had when the AHL Barons debuted in the Cox Center.

When the NBA arrived in 2008, 12 years ago they garnered all the attention on the sports scene because they were Oklahoma's first major league franchise.

Ice hockey would give city sports fans another option in addition to NBA basketball, PCL AAA Baseball and USL Oklahoma City Energy FC soccer.

Potential Markets for ECHL Western Expansion: https://thesinbin.net/potential-markets-for-echl-western-expansion/6/

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OKC is among the top contenders...

Plans for new state fair arena revised (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=761-Plans-for-new-state-fair-arena-revised)

Later this week, plans will be presented to the MAPS Board that reveal a revised state fair arena.


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Eliminated from previously disclosed plans: an upper level of seating and a small horse/livestock arena between the existing barns and the new facility, along with more barn and multi-purpose space.

Seating capacity would be reduced by 1,354 for basketball and 1,682 for concerts.

The construction would occur in such a way that the existing Norick Arena would remain operational until the new facility is complete, then it would be demolished.

The new arena is budgeted to receive $63 million in funding from MAPS 4, and was also allocated $9 million from MAPS 3.

For the original plans, see our previous article: https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=582-Detailed-look-at-proposed-new-State-Fair-Coliseum .



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looks like they would have the space for the connector in the future .... if needed/ wanted .. (seems like the only benefit of that is for bad weather situations ..)

The estimated budget for the project dropped from $96 million to $84 million. The $63 million funding in MAPS 4 and $9 million recently allocated from MAPS 3 surplus totals $72 million putting it closer to that target. The Bonds for the project should help them reach that target--smart move.

May get a bid for the project below that $84 million budget.

The 8,000 seat capacity will secure some of the state basketball tournaments like 4A classes and below.

This new layout reminds me of the old Stockyards Coliseum built back in the early 30s. Wish they could somewhat duplicate that outer exterior facade of the old coliseum. (I know there are of some of you who would like to put the coliseum back in Stockyards City http://www.okctalk.com/images/icons/icon12.png).

Surprise! Over promised and under delivered... either way though, a lot of money for 8K seats max.

Surprise! Over promised and under delivered... either way though, a lot of money for 8K seats max.

lol do you understand how MAPS works??

So they got rid of the large electronic sign for some cheap metal panels. Yeah who saw that coming?

The estimated budget for the project dropped from $96 million to $84 million. The $63 million funding in MAPS 4 and $9 million recently allocated from MAPS 3 surplus totals $72 million putting it closer to that target. The Bonds for the project should help them reach that target--smart move.

May get a bid for the project below that $84 million budget.

The 8,000 seat capacity will secure some of the state basketball tournaments like 4A classes and below.

This new layout reminds me of the old Stockyards Coliseum built back in the early 30s. Wish they could somewhat duplicate that outer exterior facade of the old coliseum. (I know there are of some of you who would like to put the coliseum back in Stockyards City http://www.okctalk.com/images/icons/icon12.png).

That 9 million transferred from Maps 3 should have been used to complete the lower park.

The current arena is old and outdated. This facility is booked 300 out of 365 days a year. It is heavily used and has a huge economic impact on the region.

looks like they would have the space for the connector in the future .... if needed/ wanted .. (seems like the only benefit of that is for bad weather situations ..)

They will probably build it shortly after old arena is torn down. Actually, I just see them expanding the super barn all the way to the new arena. Mega Barn!

They will probably build it shortly after old arena is torn down. Actually, I just see them expanding the super barn all the way to the new arena. Mega Barn!

They will build the new arena before tearing down the old one. They can't afford to not have it. Just the eight horse shows alone bring over 200 million to the city annually.

They will build the new arena before tearing down the old one. They can't afford to not have it. Just the eight horse shows alone bring over 200 million to the city annually.

Well, yeah. But, I think the real reason they "eliminated" the connection is because they have bigger plans. Obviously, can't ask for that all in one project.

Well, yeah. But, I think the real reason they "eliminated" the connection is because they have bigger plans. Obviously, can't ask for that all in one project.

Agree.

Not sure they’ll actually do it but it seems like they could easily add the large LED screen in the future but will the stadium be designed to be expanded and include upper seating?