Gutsy win against a really good Utah team. That was impressive.

Adams and Russell were huge down the stretch. 3rd quarter Worstbrook to 4th quarter Bestbrook.

Also that missed dunk Russ had on Gobert would have had a case for one of the best dunks of all time. That defied physics.

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention. Dion Waiters dropping the Warriors at the buzzer was the most Dion Waiters thing ever. Beautiful!

Adams and Russell were huge down the stretch. 3rd quarter Worstbrook to 4th quarter Bestbrook.

Also that missed dunk Russ had on Gobert would have had a case for one of the best dunks of all time. That defied physics.

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention. Dion Waiters dropping the Warriors at the buzzer was the most Dion Waiters thing ever. Beautiful!

Yes! Love everything you said here! That dunk would have definitely won some ESPY awards!

Man, what a game. It wasn't pretty, but it showed determination. I really liked Westbrook going for the pull-up 2 instead of the long 3.

What an abysmal 3rd though. I think we scored 11 points. Neither teams offense was having a good night.

I really liked Westbrook going for the pull-up 2 instead of the long 3. Great decision! While i was watching i kept on yelling no 3, no 3!

Roberson is the Thunder's best lock down defensive weapon, problem is he' s a liability on offense. We need to decide Dre's true value.

Does his offensive liabilities negate his defensive assets?

He is an absolute liability at this point. Yes he is a good defender, but he is by no means elite. He could be easily replaced. He misses way too many easy shots, and even misses wide open dunks. Because of this, our opponents don't pay any attention to him which allows them to double cover our shooters (Russell). Not everyone is a great shooter, but he needs to get comfortable with scoring in some way that works for him. Look at how great Adams has been since he finally realized he thrives under the rim. There is hope for Dre but he needs to find his mojo.

He is an absolute liability at this point. Yes he is a good defender, but he is by no means elite. He could be easily replaced. He misses way too many easy shots, and even misses wide open dunks. Because of this, our opponents don't pay any attention to him which allows them to double cover our shooters (Russell). Not everyone is a great shooter, but he needs to get comfortable with scoring in some way that works for him. Look at how great Adams has been since he finally realized he thrives under the rim. There is hope for Dre but he needs to find his mojo.

First, I think Dre is an elite defender. He may be the best wing defender in the league outside of Kawhi. I'm curious what your basis is for claiming he's not "elite." Second, Dre does find ways to score as a slasher. Roberson's field goal and effective field goal percentages are higher than Russ'. I am not trying to argue that Robes is not an offensive liability, but he's as good of a defensive player as he is a bad offensive player. And the Thunder need defense. I also think everyone tends to ignore the things Robes does good offensively (slash, get out on the break) because it's so easy to focus on his ugly shot.

Anyway, I'm not saying Robes isn't irreplaceable and he might be traded at the deadline if the right deal comes along. But a reason why the Thunder would trade him is because they won't want to to pay the $12-18 million per year he's about to get on the market. And there's a reason teams will pay that: he's pretty good.

Teams pay for offense much more than they do for defense. It's been that way for a long time.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/761/32450848736_dbcc72e107.jpg
Westbrook abused George Hill. (Courtesy Utah jazz fanz community.)

Teams pay for offense much more than they do for defense. It's been that way for a long time.

That's probably true when it comes to guards, but big men who can protect the rim get paid a lot even if they can't do anything offensively. Bismack Biyombo makes $17 million a season to score 6 points a game. Having said that, it can be easier to hide big men's weak offensive games with the right team around them.

Grant is a much better all around player than Roberson is IMO. I keep hearing elite defender but I just don't see it. He has his moments on defense but gets caught up in the trash and loses his man all the time. Easily knocked off his man. He's a good defender and a lousy offensive player. Put those two together and that = a bench player IMO. I thought his offense would come around but it hasn't thus far. Any team that he starts for will never be a championship team. Nice guy but he's a bench player. He's just not very good. If I were playing the Thunder I would foul him every time down and watch him shoot air balls from the line. Just disgraceful. That being said. On this team they way it is now he either starts or doesn't play at all. You can't play him 2nd team because of his offense or lack of offense. This is the reason he is starting. The Thunder need to find his replacement if they want to take the next step. His agent was a fool for turning down the Thunder offer.

That's probably true when it comes to guards, but big men who can protect the rim get paid a lot even if they can't do anything offensively. Bismack Biyombo makes $17 million a season to score 6 points a game. Having said that, it can be easier to hide big men's weak offensive games with the right team around them.

Robes, in years past has played the 2 guard (defense) more than the small forward. That's why the Thunder didn't sign him in the off season, they will let the market place establish his value as an RFA, unless they trade him before.

Just this year Robes has finally become a better ball handler. All being said, his defense on Hardin has been as good as any in the league. The first meeting I think Hardin only got 13 points IIRC.

Just this year Robes has finally become a better ball handler. All being said, his defense on Hardin has been as good as any in the league. The first meeting I think Hardin only got 13 points IIRC.

He has his moments or good games on defense. No one will argue that but it doesn't make up for his lack of offense. He is no threat and teams play off him to help on other players. If the Thunder had a threat they would find better/easier shots. He's just not the answer this team needs and I doubt his trade value is very high.

He is a good solid defender, but it's obvious to see that he's no where close to being the player Kawhi is. He has elite games and he has very poor games. However even in his most elite games he still can't score and everyone knows it. Kawhi is certainly an elite defender. And guess what? He can score. Roberson is a liability any way you slice the pie. I like what he does defensively and I'm not advocating for trading him. I'm advocating for getting him in the gym and working on his shot. He makes too much money to average 6 ppg as a starter.

Roberson is making me eat my words tonight.

Roberson is making me eat my words tonight.

He's a good slasher. It's easy to just focus on his bad shooting because it's so bad and can kill spacing. But... when's slashing well, he can be useful offensively. And, based on this thread, we obviously disagree on how good, er great (my opinion), of a defender he is.

.

Roberson is making me eat my words tonight.

Dre has turned many Thunder fans upside down, inside out & topside to bottom-side. Got me doing head stands while scratching my head at the same time. :dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:

Just keep his hips off the 3 point shooting perimeter. :bow::bow::bow:


Oklahoma City Thunder 114 - New Orleans Pelicans 105

Box score: http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400900107

Roberson is making me eat my words tonight.

Just give it time.

It's possible Kanter fractured his hand punching that chair....

https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/824817188246794240

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Oklahoma City Thunder 109 - Dallas Mavericks 98

Box score: http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/id/400900111

Enes Kanter has a fractured right forearm.

*sigh* What a moron.

Could potentially make any trade dealine machinations much more difficult.

Woj saying 6-8 weeks. Terrible news/timing.

Kanter's injury is bad, but if there's a silver lining it's (a) an opportunity for Lauvergne and (b) an opportunity for more small ball line-ups with Grant at the 4. We'll see what they can do.

Hey, more Nick Collison for the ladies

Kanter's injury is bad, but if there's a silver lining it's (a) an opportunity for Lauvergne and (b) an opportunity for more small ball line-ups with Grant at the 4. We'll see what they can do.

This. Jeoffrey and Jeremy are going to have to step up. Kanter I'm sure is very embarrassed. He wasn't playing his best, but no reason to punch a chair for seemingly no reason. I mean it is the Mavs, bro.

Kanter MAY be back in time for the playoffs... But we were finally seeing this team gel into full-strength for the first time.. and now this. SMH

This. Jeoffrey and Jeremy are going to have to step up. Kanter I'm sure is very embarrassed. He wasn't playing his best, but no reason to punch a chair for seemingly no reason. I mean it is the Mavs, bro.

Kanter MAY be back in time for the playoffs... But we were finally seeing this team gel into full-strength for the first time.. and now this. SMH

Projected to come back middle to late March.

I watched the video and he slapped the chair he was going to sit in. Didn't look that bad, I'm surprised at the break.

Projected to come back middle to late March.

I watched the video and he slapped the chair he was going to sit in. Didn't look that bad, I'm surprised at the break.

The seat of the chair folded up right before he swung and he hit the metal end of the seat instead of the cushion. Really unlucky.

This. Jeoffrey and Jeremy are going to have to step up. Kanter I'm sure is very embarrassed. He wasn't playing his best, but no reason to punch a chair for seemingly no reason. I mean it is the Mavs, bro.

Kanter MAY be back in time for the playoffs... But we were finally seeing this team gel into full-strength for the first time.. and now this. SMH

Your point that we were finally seeing this team gel into full-strength is valid. It was as though we were about to turn the corner.

Apparently the Thunder are intrigued by "trade talk" in acquiring Carmelo Anthony from the Knicks. What do you guys think of this?

Apparently the Thunder are intrigued by "trade talk" in acquiring Carmelo Anthony from the Knicks. What do you guys think of this?

He has two years left on his contract with around $26MM - $27MM a year, no chance. Even if we could afford him I don't think a head case like Melo would mesh well with Westbrook.

He has two years left on his contract with around $26MM - $27MM a year, no chance. Even if we could afford him I don't think a head case like Melo would mesh well with Westbrook.

Why do you think Melo is a headcase? I really like Melo. I think he's a bit stubborn in his preference as a player (maybe that's what you meant by "headcase"), but I think his problem has been finding ways to adapt his game. Honestly, I would consider moving Kanter, Sabonis, and Payne for Melo. It's obviously a risk, but if you're OKC, you might have to take a risk. Having said that, Melo and La La do not seem like they'd want to live in OKC. Melo sought out NYC because he wanted to be there specifically. I can't imagine it happening, but it's interesting to consider.

He has two years left on his contract with around $26MM - $27MM a year, no chance. Even if we could afford him I don't think a head case like Melo would mesh well with Westbrook.

Wouldn't classify Melo as a head case IMO.

Our biggest trade piece (Kanter) makes $7.4 million less that Melo. You would have to give up another piece like Oladipo ($6.5) or Abrines ($6.0) to make this work. WHOA!:ohno:

Players profile & 2016-17 selected stats:

Carmelo Anthony (SF) $24,559,380 - 6'8" 240 lbs - Stats: 22.7 PPG, 6.1 RPG ,19.6 PER
Enes Kanter (C) $17,145,838 - 6'11" 245 lbs - Stats: 14.4 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 24.64 PER


Kanter (forearm) underwent successful surgery on Friday to repair a fractured right ulna in his forearm and will be reevaluated in four weeks.--Rotowire (7 hours ago.)

Melo has a no trade clause in his current contract; he & his agent would have the rights to waive that clause.

New York would have to acquire another player with Kanter for this trade to work; possibly some other assets.

Keep Kanter at this point; OKC would have to give up a lot in salary & unknowns...

PPG = Points Per Game
RPG = Rebounds Per Game
PER = Player Efficiency Rating (positives - negatives)

For what its worth which could be nothing. Heard on ESPN radio a few minutes ago that the only two teams Melo would agree to go to are the Cavs and the Clippers

Roberson with another embarrassingly poor outing tonight. He went 0-4, scoring only 1 point. His +- was -17. TOTAL liability.

Other than Westbrook and a few of the starters, the majority of the roster is a liability.

Poor Russ.

It's worth noting, the Thunder schedule is about to get a lot harder. If OKC has a .500 record in the month of January that woud be a huge win.

OKC finished January with a 7-8 record, which is a win for this team. It was brutal schedule. Unfortunately, they're gong to have to figure out how to maintain it without Kanter. While it'll be tough, I could see there being a silver lining to other guys having to step up...

OKC finished January with a 7-8 record, which is a win for this team. It was brutal schedule. Unfortunately, they're gong to have to figure out how to maintain it without Kanter. While it'll be tough, I could see there being a silver lining to other guys having to step up...

I think most of us thought the Thunder were pretty safe for the playoffs until Kanter got hurt. Now they simply have no offense. I hate to be a debbie-downer, but with him out for 6-8 weeks, I don't see how we're going to manufacture enough offense to stay competitive down the stretch and not fall out of that 8th spot. We were no offensive juggernaut as it was, but now, we can't buy points - and Russ can't play all five positions PLUS the bench at once.

Can we not make *any* moves to try and stop the bleeding?

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic.. But OKC isn't even close to falling below the 8th spot. That would require Denver and Portland to go on a tear in February - and both of their Feb schedules are more difficult than OKC's.

The second unit is garbage without Kanter, but we are staying competitive with juggernaut teams (Cavs, Spurs). Give the team some time to learn the new setup and they will begin winning again. Tonight should be a W at home against a dumpster fire of a Bulls team.

I've heard we are the 5th youngest team or starting lineup. Point being, this is a young team. Sabonis is developing quickly. Next year we are in a great position. Kanter being out hurts this team, but I it requires the team to develop in a different direction.

I think most of us thought the Thunder were pretty safe for the playoffs until Kanter got hurt. Now they simply have no offense. I hate to be a debbie-downer, but with him out for 6-8 weeks, I don't see how we're going to manufacture enough offense to stay competitive down the stretch and not fall out of that 8th spot. We were no offensive juggernaut as it was, but now, we can't buy points - and Russ can't play all five positions PLUS the bench at once.

Can we not make *any* moves to try and stop the bleeding?

Keep in mind that is also going to include the All-Star break which is two weeks by itself. More like 4-6 weeks of actual playing time.

Man, the overreactions on this thread are pretty impressive. ;)

Man, the overreactions on this thread are pretty impressive. ;)

LOL.... Yeah... We are just missing a comment from that one person, I won't name names but I'm sure we all know who I'm referring to, so far telling us how the Thunder will fall all the way to the bottom of the West before the end of the season.

Young team in rebuilding mode in a tough conference.... No one expected us to win a championship this year. So not sure why we have all the doom and gloom.

Man, the overreactions on this thread are pretty impressive. ;)

They are indeed overreactions. What do they expect from a team rebuilding after losing one of its two franchise players considered by many writers among the TOP 10 in the NBA.

Roberson with another embarrassingly poor outing tonight. He went 0-4, scoring only 1 point. His +- was -17. TOTAL liability.

Andre Roberson's 3 point shooting is an offensive liability.

Until Dre can improve his 3 point shooting; he would be better off driving toward the basket then kicking out to a player like Abrines (out with back spasms), Morrow, Sabonis, Oladipo, Payne, Westbrook or Lauvergne to take the three.

Once this group gets consistent; you might see one of the most lethal teams in the NBA because of their youth & speed.

Thunder's short term goal; make the playoffs & get past the first round.

Keep in mind that is also going to include the All-Star break which is two weeks by itself. More like 4-6 weeks of actual playing time.

ASB is only 1 week of non-regular schedule.

Roberson has got to go. No team will ever win a championship with this guy as your starter. Westbrook has to be steaming. Roberson makes the Thunder easy to defend. 5 on 4 no one has to go out on Roberson. Can't believe that Billy D keeps starting him.

Olidipo-Westbrook & Mason should be the only players with a green light to shoot threes. Grant should have a caution light and Roberson a RED LIGHT.

The defense was embarrassingly bad tonight and that has nothing to do with Kanter. The team looked tired on the second night of a back-to-back, third in four days, and a long January. I'll start to worry if the Thunder look like this on Friday and Sunday.

Olidipo-Westbrook & Mason should be the only players with a green light to shoot threes. Grant should have a caution light and Roberson a RED LIGHT.

Who is Mason? And why would Grant not have a green light when open? He's shooting the best percentage on the team at 40%.

He probably meant Morrow

Other than Westbrook and a few of the starters, the majority of the roster is a liability.

Poor Russ.
+1

He probably meant Morrow

Yeah, that makes sense. Morrow is actually shooting an abysmal 28% from three, but he still commands attention and creates space because of his reputation. Hopefully, his percentages pick up. I'd prefer Abrines get most minutes though. His upside is a lot higher than A-MO's.

I hate to say this because I am the biggest OKC Thunder fan in the Seattle area - BUT

I am almost postive that Westbrook will leave OKC after next year. OKC just doens't have the caliber of talent up and down for a superstar to be successful let alone happy and compete. I am sure this is really why KD left and now that he is gone it is MORE than clear that OKC has huge cultural issues with regard to how the org is run and that is translating in the players.

Case in point - take Dion Waiters, even Reggie Jackson. These guys while on OKC were unreliable and more or less flops who despite trying to get minutes vs. KD/Westbrook/Ibaka they'd fail more than not when they were on the floor. Most of the time, it would be clear the players were not motivated or didn't know what to do. Take a look at those same players now; Dion is leading Miami and Jackson is tremendously better than he was.

OKC keeps "STARTING???" Andre Roberson who has NO offensive talent or interest. Oladipo (a top draft from Orlando) can't hit a shot in OKC and is horribly inconsistent and IMO way under-performing to his capabilities. Also S Adams (still no go-to shot). And Kanter. Well, I want to give him a pass so bad BUT he was the 2nd wheel and took himself out of the equation for 6 weeks. .... Sabonis (first year, yes - but. .. Inconsistent). Grant (immature, inconsistent but fun to watch). Morrow (who?). Also, these guys make $$ millions and can't hit free throws or play defense (if you're gonna foul, at least make sure he doesn't get an 'add one'). To me it is frustrating to see the opponent 'get it' against OKC but we make the same mistakes game after game. Why every game, 3rd qu has a shooting slump. ...

Singler - I try try try to like this guy and occasionally he does have a good game (ie, don't just go foul the opponent, play some defense and hit a shot or two). But I feel he is mostly dead weight - is this JUST an OKC thing?. In fact - Is this an OKC THEME?? Under-perform, get traded then rise to perfection (in OKC's face)?

I don't know but I feel after the past few games that OKC front office needs to make some cultural changes, quick. Otherwise, OKC will surely lose Westbrook to Los Angeles Lakers (hey, they suck too but at least you're in LA); then unfortunately that might be the end of OKC being an elite/markee franchise.

One bright spot is - despite the loses and ridiculous team chemistry (and weird, singular culture) of OKC, the media hasn't given up and still sees OKC as an elite or at least still markee team. They are chalking it up to OKC being young, while I agree with that - there seems to be deeper issues in that this OKC team isn't really different from the others except this time no KD and Ibaka (and therefore the loses really hurt and are more frequent). ...

Any thoughts? I so want the culture to change (please be more like Memphis or even Milwaukee, somebody other than just westbrook rise up on a given night .....). - nervous - - -

The Thunders window has officially been closed. Looks like they are packing it in for the season. Kanter blew it up.

Man you are judging a team that was built around KD in the first 50 games after the fact. Kevin pulled the rug out from Presti, the organization, the city. You can't say the culture and the front office has issues here. Let's be honest, if KD is still here, this team probably has less than 10 losses at this point and is favored to win the West. That was the entire point and buildup over the last few seasons with all of Presti's moves. This team grinding out to a potential playoff spot is very admirable considering they are missing the crown of the structure in KD. Literally every move Presti has made since 2007 has taken KD into account. When you suddenly remove KD for what would have been the peak of OKC basketball, you are left with a mess that took a decade to build. Basing the most recent, tenuous 50 games OKC has seen in 6 years as the evidence for the conclusion that the organization has issues is unfair. KD's shocking decision was not a normal FA move. No possible way to prepare for that.

I don't think OKC has any cultural problems. Despite a recent hot streak, Dion Waiters is not that good of a basketball player. Reggie Jackson is exactly who he was in OKC -- talented but a bad teammate. OKC used both of them perfectly IMHO. Again, I think it's too early to overreact (which this board is doing really well) to a team that's still sitting 6 games over .500 with the toughest part of the schedule in the rearview mirror. Here are the current issues for the team as I see them:

- Losing a guy like Kanter would hurt any team. Look at how the Cavs have struggled without J.R. Smith. NBA depth is fragile and the second unit was built around Kanter. Hopefully, the Thunder can find answers on the second unit, but it may take a few more games. While Lauvergne is a poor man's Kanter, he is just a lot more limited in his skills. It's just tough to replace good players. Most NBA teams seriously struggle with any major losses.
- Cam Payne has been really bad. I thought he'd be better. Hopefully he's still working off the rust. Semaj is a better defender, but he's really limited offensively.
- Roberson is (a) not as good of a fit for this year's team and (b) his shooting has fallen off a cliff. When KD and Russ were playing with him, Roberson was a good fit. He is an elite defender who was part of units that were still elite offensively. However, now there are more times the offense needs help and, with his shooting getting even worse, it's killed the spacing. If Roberson can just get back to shooting 30% from three it makes a big difference.
- Sabonis is good for a rookie, but not for a starter. I think it is smart to develop players like Sabonis, Abrines, and Grant long term, but, unfortunately, it is not always conducive to winning as much as possible in the short term. I don't think the Thunder should play any of these guys less because it's an investment in the team long-term.
- Finally, this team lacks shooting. It creates a spacing problem. This all stems from the giant hole at small forward that was vacated by one of the game's best shooters. At some point, this needs to be addressed, but it's easier said than done. I think Abrines can help more as he gains experience.

So, in short, the Thunder are one of the youngest teams in the NBA and they're investing in that growth. Unfortunately, that's a bumpy road. OKC isn't winning a title this year and they're still in a good position, but they need to get out of this rough patch.

They're having a really rough couple of games, but the above comments are spot on.

The roster was built to have Durant running it. He was an incredibly consistent and talented scorer (among other things) and every move was made for him. Now that he left, there's an obvious giant hole to fill.

Unless Westbrook gets injured (God forbid) or a few other pieces do, the team will at least make the playoffs, which is still an impressive feat.

The Thunders window has officially been closed. Looks like they are packing it in for the season. Kanter blew it up.

a bit dramatic... just as it took a minute for them to adjust without Oladipo they'll have to do the same without Kanter. give it some time. we all knew what we had going into the season. to be honest...they have exceeded my expectations already. go thunder!

There are many games (32) left to finish out the season. Let's take it one game at a time.