Not at all, just predicting the future.

I think you are letting emotion get the best of you (like many are right now) and heavily underestimating the Thunder's front office and our fanbase. Anything could obviously happen, but the all dire predictions are kind of laughable at this point

Yeah, but Seattle lost their team because there were better competing options in town. They have the Seahawks and Mariners. And the citizens opted to build them stadiums and not the Sonics. OKC doesn't have that same issue. Doesn't have the same competition.

If you haven't lived on the west coast it's hard to understand how much competition there is for your time, attention and money.

Good grief, L.A. -- the second largest market in the U.S. -- hasn't even had an NFL team for over two decades.

I will also say that Oklahoma has a much, much deeper sports culture than anywhere on the coasts. Sports are part of our social fabric, even if you don't love the games themselves.

The huge majority of the people I knew in California couldn't give a flip about any sports and had more things to do then they had time to do them.

I remember my dad trying to explain this to me when I was younger and couldn't understand the empty seats at California stadiums and arenas. He went there frequently on business... And only after I lived there did I start to grasp the massive difference in culture as compared to OK.

I think you are letting emotion get the best of you (like many are right now) and heavily underestimating the Thunder's front office and our fanbase. Anything could obviously happen, but the all dire predictions are kind of laughable at this point

Trust me, I'm not that emotional about what's going on. I wasn't all that worked up about KD leaving; I said it before: it's his decision and a part of the business. Also, I'm not underestimating our front office at all; I think they've done a great job to date. But going back to all my previous comments across 3-4 different threads, I am absolutely underestimating our fanbase. I think so many in town are bandwagon jumpers. I think the same fans that talked smack on Russ for years, but are now kissing his butt and begging him to stay, are laughable. As a city, we didn't really show loyalty to him, so that makes me think that he will leave. I hope he doesn't as I've always said I would rather build a team around Russ than KD. But I'm bracing myself for his departure. And when that happens, mediocrity will probably come. And if we don't deal him now, then we're seriously going to be in a world of hurt. Not sure how any of what I'm saying is laughable.

Problem is, how does management go into next season without some sort of reassurance that Russ is definitely staying? Do we take a risk, and possibly let the same thing happen to him as we did KD. Let him walk with nothing to show for it?

There is no reason that we can't go into next season without an assurance of that...we just can't do so beyond the trade deadline in February.

Trust me, I'm not that emotional about what's going on. I wasn't all that worked up about KD leaving; I said it before: it's his decision and a part of the business. Also, I'm not underestimating our front office at all; I think they've done a great job to date. But going back to all my previous comments across 3-4 different threads, I am absolutely underestimating our fanbase. I think so many in town are bandwagon jumpers. I think the same fans that talked smack on Russ for years, but are now kissing his butt and begging him to stay, are laughable. As a city, we didn't really show loyalty to him, so that makes me think that he will leave. I hope he doesn't as I've always said I would rather build a team around Russ than KD. But I'm bracing myself for his departure. And when that happens, mediocrity will probably come. And if we don't deal him now, then we're seriously going to be in a world of hurt. Not sure how any of what I'm saying is laughable.

All this comes with the territory in pro sports but I think people in OKC will be better about weathering down times because there is a deep love of sports embedded in our culture and it's the only big league game in the entire state, and it will likely stay that way for a very long time.

Trust me, I'm not that emotional about what's going on. I wasn't all that worked up about KD leaving; I said it before: it's his decision and a part of the business. Also, I'm not underestimating our front office at all; I think they've done a great job to date. But going back to all my previous comments across 3-4 different threads, I am absolutely underestimating our fanbase. I think so many in town are bandwagon jumpers. I think the same fans that talked smack on Russ for years, but are now kissing his butt and begging him to stay, are laughable. As a city, we didn't really show loyalty to him, so that makes me think that he will leave. I hope he doesn't as I've always said I would rather build a team around Russ than KD. But I'm bracing myself for his departure. And when that happens, mediocrity will probably come. And if we don't deal him now, then we're seriously going to be in a world of hurt. Not sure how any of what I'm saying is laughable.

You must have been hanging around different fans than me because after about 2010, I never heard much criticism (or at least unfair criticism) of Westbrook outside of a few media personalities. If you think our fans were overly critical of Westbrook, that is hilarious. Have you ever lived in another sports market or seen how other fans and media treat stars on their cities' teams? All of our start players have it incredibly easy here. If this team was in any major market, Westbrook would have gotten destroyed by fans and media for some of the things he's done over the years (which I still don't think would be that fair).

^

Yep.

Cities that have multiple big league teams and have for decades have a large contingent of brutal fans and the media is often ruthless.

OKC is a 'nice' culture and most of our sports have been in the form of the college game where it's unseemly for anyone to too heavily criticize the players and teams.

Trust me, I'm not that emotional about what's going on. I wasn't all that worked up about KD leaving; I said it before: it's his decision and a part of the business. Also, I'm not underestimating our front office at all; I think they've done a great job to date. But going back to all my previous comments across 3-4 different threads, I am absolutely underestimating our fanbase. I think so many in town are bandwagon jumpers. I think the same fans that talked smack on Russ for years, but are now kissing his butt and begging him to stay, are laughable. As a city, we didn't really show loyalty to him, so that makes me think that he will leave. I hope he doesn't as I've always said I would rather build a team around Russ than KD. But I'm bracing myself for his departure. And when that happens, mediocrity will probably come. And if we don't deal him now, then we're seriously going to be in a world of hurt. Not sure how any of what I'm saying is laughable.

Really ? Russell is 5th on last years jersey sale list, Durant is 8th. Russell getting a lot of love and more so in OKC than other places.

There is no reason that we can't go into next season without an assurance of that...we just can't do so beyond the trade deadline in February.

There is no way you can trade Russ at the deadline. Who would go for that trade without the assurance of him signing THERE in July? It's this summer or wait until free agency. A lot of people already think it will be hard to move him for this whole season, now you're suggesting partial season? We would get nothing out of that.

You must have been hanging around different fans than me because after about 2010, I never heard much criticism (or at least unfair criticism) of Westbrook outside of a few media personalities. If you think our fans were overly critical of Westbrook, that is hilarious. Have you ever lived in another sports market or seen how other fans and media treat stars on their cities' teams? All of our start players have it incredibly easy here. If this team was in any major market, Westbrook would have gotten destroyed by fans and media for some of the things he's done over the years (which I still don't think would be that fair).

Yeah, we definitely were either surrounded by a completely different fan base or you had your ear muffs on. For years, he was getting grief about every single shot and TO he had, while the whole city was sucking KD off. Like I said, it wasn't until KD got hurt that the entire fan base appreciated him And no way was it just the media criticizing him; I happen to be on Facebook as well and it seemed to be non-stop Russ bashing for years. Maybe I just saw it more b/c I was a supporter?

And I get how ruthless other cities can be; Philly fans are probably the worst. But this is what Russ knows; he hasn't experienced the other attacks from another city's fan base yet.

Really ? Russell is 5th on last years jersey sale list, Durant is 8th. Russell getting a lot of love and more so in OKC than other places.

Again, I've said it over and over. Not until 14-15 season did Russ start getting love

I have faith that Presti will rebuild. If he did it in the past, why can't he do it again? Sure, there will be a few rough years, but I'm confident we can do it again.

Presti is one of the best at recognizing talent, no doubt. Who would have drafted RW, Ibaka or Adams where they did when so many others were proven ahead of them? it only took one year for OKC to figure out who it was and then made the playoffs the following year, so I agree. I think we will have one, maybe two down years, the problem comes when the ownership asks for a new arena. If it is in a down year, I don't see that going well. If the city turns it down, what does the ownership do? If it is in a great year, shouldn't be too much of a problem. It all depends on where the dominos fall.

Presti is one of the best at recognizing talent, no doubt. Who would have drafted RW, Ibaka or Adams where they did when so many others were proven ahead of them? it only took one year for OKC to figure out who it was and then made the playoffs the following year, so I agree. I think we will have one, maybe two down years, the problem comes when the ownership asks for a new arena. If it is in a down year, I don't see that going well. If the city turns it down, what does the ownership do? If it is in a great year, shouldn't be too much of a problem. It all depends on where the dominos fall.

We just renovated Chesapeake Arena. I think we're good for 10 years or so. But after that, I have no problem wither financing a rebuild or a new arena. Owners would be smart to do it during an up time.

Woj said on the Herd today that we aren't shopping Westbrook. Also that he thinks Westbrook doesn't want to leave.

Woj said on the Herd today that we aren't shopping Westbrook. Also that he thinks Westbrook doesn't want to leave.

That is refreshing to hear.

Woj said on the Herd today that we aren't shopping Westbrook. Also that he thinks Westbrook doesn't want to leave.

I really hope it works out that way.

I do trust Presti to do everything possible to move forward in the best possible way.

Woj said on the Herd today that we aren't shopping Westbrook. Also that he thinks Westbrook doesn't want to leave.

One thing that they're also saying is that the Thunder might be trying to bring in Blake Griffin to play alongside Russell Westbrook. This move wouldn't completely replace what we lost with KD, but Blake is a pretty decent player and he'd likely stay here long term. He's a free agent next summer.

As in next year, or a trade?

As in next year, or a trade?

Screw a trade. We lost KD and got nothing in return. We can get Griffin as a free agent to return home.

We could let Dion Waiters walk, and that would free up cap space so we can offer Blake a max contract next year, along with Russell Westbrook.

Screw a trade. We lost KD and got nothing in return. We can get Griffin as a free agent to return home.

True we didn't get anything in return; however, we now have $30 million in salary CAP space freed up as a result of Durant's departure.

True we didn't get anything in return; however, we now have $30 million in salary CAP space freed up as a result of Durant's departure.

Which you can only use to sign free agents. Not much out there. A trade gives you a lot more options.

True we didn't get anything in return; however, we now have $30 million in salary CAP space freed up as a result of Durant's departure.

That's if we don't resign Dion Waiters. If we resign Waiters, we won't be able to offer max contract to a FA next year. I say let Waiters go, and keep the cap space so we can offer max contract to a FA (maybe Blake) next year. If we can get Blake to come, Russell Westbrook may consider sticking around.

This is all assuming that Blake wants to come to OKC. He could very well stay in LAC.

This is all assuming that Blake wants to come to OKC. He could very well stay in LAC.

That's true. If I were the Thunder players, I'd start recruiting him now. I realize the organization can't do that, but as we saw with Golden State, the players sure can.

There is no way you can trade Russ at the deadline. Who would go for that trade without the assurance of him signing THERE in July? It's this summer or wait until free agency. A lot of people already think it will be hard to move him for this whole season, now you're suggesting partial season? We would get nothing out of that.

There is very little difference between the two. Obviously no one would trade valuable peices for him at the deadline if they didn't have some assurance of him signing long term, but why would they do it right now, to get a full year with him instead of half a season? What difference does it make? No one will trade anything valuable for him in either situation if they don't have some assurance he will sign long term. The timing makes no difference, the destination would have to be a team that Westbrook wanted to join in either circumstance. Might as well see if you can get him to commit through the season, let it play out a little so he can get a feel for the team, and make a move if it seems like he's going to bolt.

Westbrook might be more willing to stay if we could attract a max contract free agent next summer. That's why we really need to preserve that $30 million of cap money by not resigning Dion Waiters. If you resign Dion for $15 mill or whatever, you won't have max contract money to offer a free agent next summer.

Yeah, we definitely were either surrounded by a completely different fan base or you had your ear muffs on. For years, he was getting grief about every single shot and TO he had, while the whole city was sucking KD off. Like I said, it wasn't until KD got hurt that the entire fan base appreciated him And no way was it just the media criticizing him; I happen to be on Facebook as well and it seemed to be non-stop Russ bashing for years. Maybe I just saw it more b/c I was a supporter?

And I get how ruthless other cities can be; Philly fans are probably the worst. But this is what Russ knows; he hasn't experienced the other attacks from another city's fan base yet.

Yeah that isn't true at all. People may have appreciated him more after KD got hurt, but even years before that the majority of fans were not as hard on him as you act like they were. Russ is from LA and isn't stupid. No one has even booed him here. You have a pretty narrow view of the situation. I would bet a lot of money that he doesn't feel he's been mistreated by the fans or even the media here.

Hell, I was at a game 3 or 4 years ago in which Westbrook was probably playing the worst half of his career... there were no boos or anything like that, just encouragement from the crowd. As his slump continued to get worse, he finally made it to the free throw line toward the late in the 2nd quarter. When he stepped up to the line. the entire arena started chanting Russell as a show of support. He drained both free throws, the crowd went nuts and he was on fire for the rest of the game. Does that sound like a fanbase that was overlooking, over criticizing or mistreating one of its players?

We could let Dion Waiters walk, and that would free up cap space so we can offer Blake a max contract next year, along with Russell Westbrook.

I don't even think we need to let Dion walk to sign Blake long term. KD left a massive hole financially. We're well under the cap now.

Yeah that isn't true at all. People may have appreciated him more after KD got hurt, but even years before that the majority of fans were not as hard on him as you act like they were. Russ is from LA and isn't stupid. No one has even booed him here. You have a pretty narrow view of the situation. I would bet a lot of money that he doesn't feel he's been mistreated by the fans or even the media here.

Hell, I was at a game 3 or 4 years ago in which Westbrook was probably playing the worst half of his career... there were no boos or anything like that, just encouragement from the crowd. As his slump continued to get worse, he finally made it to the free throw line toward the late in the 2nd quarter. When he stepped up to the line. the entire arena started chanting Russell as a show of support. He drained both free throws, the crowd went nuts and he was on fire for the rest of the game. Does that sound like a fanbase that was overlooking, over criticizing or mistreating one of its players?

Was a little off on the timing but here is an article about the game I described above. It was late in the 4th Quarter against the Mavs in 2011. But hey the fans never supported him until last year, right?

http://m.newsok.com/article/3636147

I don't even think we need to let Dion walk to sign Blake long term. KD left a massive hole financially. We're well under the cap now.

Without Dion, we have a little over $30 million in tax space. If we would've kept KD, we likely would've gone into the luxury tax had we kept Dion. My guess is that we would've offered KD around $25-26 million, and then let Waiters walk to avoid paying the tax, as that only would've left us with about $5 million in tax space left to spend.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder/cap/

Weren't we already in the luxury tax last year?

Weren't we already in the luxury tax last year?

Yes. Tax level last year was $84.7 million. They spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $95 million in salaries last year.

Tax level is now over $110 million for 2016-2017. The increase is the reason that Golden State was able to add a new max contract player.

For 2016-2017, Thunder is at about $80 million in salaries with a tax rate of $111 million. So we have about $30 million in tax space. If we lock up Waiters, we won't have this cap space to offer a free agent a max deal next summer, unless we sign Waiters on 1 year contract.

Yes. Tax level last year was $84.7 million. They spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $95 million in salaries last year.

Tax level is now over $110 million for 2016-2017. The increase is the reason that Golden State was able to add a new max contract player.

For 2016-2017, Thunder is at about $80 million in salaries with a tax rate of $111 million. So we have about $30 million in tax space. If we lock up Waiters, we won't have this cap space to offer a free agent a max deal next summer, unless we sign Waiters on 1 year contract.

We're not going to lure a max player of Durant's caliber anyway. Why not stay under the tax and pick up a piece once the season begins. Presti must have his eye on some pieces.

Al Horford must have known Durant's decision before he told the Thunder. Durant's townhouses went up for sale in May, prior to the playoffs; he already knew his decision before the Thunder's tip off against the Mavericks.

Makes me wonder if he put forth his best effort in those last 3 games against GSW. Now he wants to turn on Westbrook since leaving the organization. Durant was a very weak leader.

Yeah that isn't true at all. People may have appreciated him more after KD got hurt, but even years before that the majority of fans were not as hard on him as you act like they were. Russ is from LA and isn't stupid. No one has even booed him here. You have a pretty narrow view of the situation. I would bet a lot of money that he doesn't feel he's been mistreated by the fans or even the media here.

Hell, I was at a game 3 or 4 years ago in which Westbrook was probably playing the worst half of his career... there were no boos or anything like that, just encouragement from the crowd. As his slump continued to get worse, he finally made it to the free throw line toward the late in the 2nd quarter. When he stepped up to the line. the entire arena started chanting Russell as a show of support. He drained both free throws, the crowd went nuts and he was on fire for the rest of the game. Does that sound like a fanbase that was overlooking, over criticizing or mistreating one of its players?

Hey man, I just call things like I see them; I won't ever be in denial about it no matter how great our fans can be. Because OKC fans are definitely great fans... when things are going well. If you didn't see it at all, I'm not sure what to tell you. My wife's cousin just visited and we talked to about KD and I asked him what he thought about my opinion of Russ being overly criticized by the fans over the years. He agreed with me that it did happen. He's been living in Texas over the past several years, and he recognizes it.

Also pretty convenient for you to bring up one example of how great the fans were during a specific game, then back up your argument with an article immediately afterwards. If we want to start pulling **** off the internet to back up our views, let me know when you would like to start.

Hey PhiAlpha, I'll just leave this here.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2417837-where-have-all-the-russell-westbrook-critics-gone

18 triple doubles and insane athleticism, and the national critics have STFU.

Hey man, I just call things like I see them; I won't ever be in denial about it no matter how great our fans can be. Because OKC fans are definitely great fans... when things are going well. If you didn't see it at all, I'm not sure what to tell you. My wife's cousin just visited and we talked to about KD and I asked him what he thought about my opinion of Russ being overly criticized by the fans over the years. He agreed with me that it did happen. He's been living in Texas over the past several years, and he recognizes it.

Also pretty convenient for you to bring up one example of how great the fans were during a specific game, then back up your argument with an article immediately afterwards. If we want to start pulling **** off the internet to back up our views, let me know when you would like to start.

I was at the game and remembered/participated in the story that I mentioned. After writing my post, I remembered that Mike Sherman wrote a story about it so I found the article and added the link to another post. Other than being an ass, I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Hey PhiAlpha, I'll just leave this here.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2417837-where-have-all-the-russell-westbrook-critics-gone

That article talks a lot about the national media criticism, but doesn't mention OKC fans anywhere. The closest it gets is mentioning the "Anti-Westbrook Camp" in an article focused on the media's criticism of him. Not a very good example.

At any rate, nothing you've said changes the fact that most of the criticism of Westbrook by the fan base early in his career was warranted and not really that harsh. It really shows your (and your wife's cousin's) lack of prospective around professional sports if you think the fans or media here were that hard on him.

That article talks a lot about the national media criticism, but doesn't mention OKC fans anywhere. The closest it gets is mentioning the "Anti-Westbrook Camp" in an article focused on the media's criticism of him. Not a very good example.

At any rate, nothing you've said changes the fact that most of the criticism of Westbrook by the fan base early in his career was warranted and not really that harsh. It really shows your (and your wife's cousin's) lack of prospective around professional sports if you think the fans or media here were that hard on him.



That article talks a lot about the national media criticism, but doesn't mention OKC fans anywhere. The closest it gets is mentioning the "Anti-Westbrook Camp" in an article focused on the media's criticism of him. Not a very good example.

At any rate, nothing you've said changes the fact that most of the criticism of Westbrook by the fan base early in his career was warranted and not really that harsh. It really shows your (and your wife's cousin's) lack of prospective around professional sports if you think the fans or media here were that hard on him.

So we have local media ripping him and national media ripping him, but none of our fans were??? Well being that fans are usually completely swayed by the media's views, I'd say our fans had to have been overly critical at some point. I already pointed out that I understand other major cities can be/are much tougher on their stars, so my lack of perspective isn't an issue. Its plain and simple, a ton of our fan base was ripping him apart for years until he showed us what he can do without KD. You can continue to be naive to it or be in denial or whatever, it doesn't change the fact that it was happening.

I don't post on here too much, but I love to read OKCTalk bc I love learning about all the great things going on in our city. When I do occassionally chime in and am adamant about something, it's only because I have a strong opinion or knowledge about a topic, which is pretty rare. I don't know squat about construction, urban planning, etc. But regarding this, there's no way you'll change my mind.

I think I'm noticing a trend. One thing I have seen from reading over the years is that when you have a strong viewpoint, you won't it let it go even if you could be in the wrong. I notice that you're constantly going to bat for O&G on many different occasions. I can't point out specific examples but you always seem to a proponent of all things energy in all those discussions. Nothing wrong with that bc I think I saw that you're in the industry. On top of drinking the kool-aid, you never bite the hand that feeds you, I get it. But then, I also recollect the whole SAE discussion that was going on a couple of years ago. You were defending/denying so much that it seemed like you were doing damage control for what was a systemic issue in your frat. But then, as time went along, I started to realize that it was probably more denial/naivety on your part. Just hoping/wishing that something like that couldn't possibly happen to an organization that you identify with. And it sounds like you're a pretty young guy. Intelligent/knowledgable but young. So, in my opinion, this is just another issue (albeit an extremely unimportant one) where either you've been extremely naive, or you're in denial bc you don't want to believe that the fans of our beloved Thunder would treat our current star a certain way. Well, it happened, trust me. Just realize that not everything has to be perfect. As you get older, you'll become much more cynical like me.

^

Soonermike81, you are getting far too personal here.

It's fine to disagree but focus on debating the points/opinion, not the person.

So we have local media ripping him and national media ripping him, but none of our fans were??? Well being that fans are usually completely swayed by the media's views, I'd say our fans had to have been overly critical at some point. I already pointed out that I understand other major cities can be/are much tougher on their stars, so my lack of perspective isn't an issue. Its plain and simple, a ton of our fan base was ripping him apart for years until he showed us what he can do without KD. You can continue to be naive to it or be in denial or whatever, it doesn't change the fact that it was happening.

I don't post on here too much, but I love to read OKCTalk bc I love learning about all the great things going on in our city. When I do occassionally chime in and am adamant about something, it's only because I have a strong opinion or knowledge about a topic, which is pretty rare. I don't know squat about construction, urban planning, etc. But regarding this, there's no way you'll change my mind.

I think I'm noticing a trend. One thing I have seen from reading over the years is that when you have a strong viewpoint, you won't it let it go even if you could be in the wrong. I notice that you're constantly going to bat for O&G on many different occasions. I can't point out specific examples but you always seem to a proponent of all things energy in all those discussions. Nothing wrong with that bc I think I saw that you're in the industry. On top of drinking the kool-aid, you never bite the hand that feeds you, I get it. But then, I also recollect the whole SAE discussion that was going on a couple of years ago. You were defending/denying so much that it seemed like you were doing damage control for what was a systemic issue in your frat. But then, as time went along, I started to realize that it was probably more denial/naivety on your part. Just hoping/wishing that something like that couldn't possibly happen to an organization that you identify with. And it sounds like you're a pretty young guy. Intelligent/knowledgable but young. So, in my opinion, this is just another issue (albeit an extremely unimportant one) where either you've been extremely naive, or you're in denial bc you don't want to believe that the fans of our beloved Thunder would treat our current star a certain way. Well, it happened, trust me. Just realize that not everything has to be perfect. As you get older, you'll become much more cynical like me.

Wow, I hope you didn't waste too much time typing that.

On both SAE and the energy industry, you can read into my comments how ever you would like. I was on the unpopular side of both of those topics on this board, gave my opinions based on what I knew, and basically was attacked for my opinions on them. I also happen to have far more knowledge and direct experience on both of those topics than most of the posters here that were making uneducated and in some cases inflammatory comments on them (especially during the outrage period after the SAE incident). Most of the posters had made up their minds about those topics before making their comments and we're just as outspoken/set in their opinions as I was in mine... I was just on the side that most people (apparently yourself included) disagreed with. I also don't remember any of them letting go of their opinions of things when they might have been wrong and in many cases were wrong.

Back to the topic at hand, you're making this way too personal. While there was criticism of Westbrook here throughout his career, I don't think it was as widespread as you think it was and more importantly don't think it was so bad that it would be a reason for him wanting to leave OKC. I also think he realizes that the criticism would have been much worse in a larger market.

^

Soonermike81, you are getting far too personal here.

It's fine to disagree but focus on debating the points/opinion, not the person.

Sorry, Pete and PhiAlpha

Wow, I hope you didn't waste too much time typing that.

On both SAE and the energy industry, you can read into my comments how ever you would like. I was on the unpopular side of both of those topics on this board, gave my opinions based on what I knew, and basically was attacked for my opinions on them. I also happen to have far more knowledge and direct experience on both of those topics than most of the posters here that were making uneducated and in some cases inflammatory comments on them (especially during the outrage period after the SAE incident). Most of the posters had made up their minds about those topics before making their comments and we're just as outspoken/set in their opinions as I was in mine... I was just on the side that most people (apparently yourself included) disagreed with. I also don't remember any of them letting go of their opinions of things when they might have been wrong and in many cases were wrong.

Back to the topic at hand, you're making this way too personal. While there was criticism of Westbrook here throughout his career, I don't think it was as widespread as you think it was and more importantly don't think it was so bad that it would be a reason for him wanting to leave OKC. I also think he realizes that the criticism would have been much worse in a larger market.

Here's a better article.

http://newsok.com/criticism-of-russell-westbrook-taught-thunder-a-lesson/article/3574581?custom_click=rss

I can cut and paste articles all day if you want me to, but it's not necessary. Just google it and you can see how widespread it was and how far it goes back. Then you can also see the BR article that I posted that backs up exactly what I've been saying. That he received a lot of unwarranted criticism until he led the team in '14-15 when KD was absent. And to think that it was only local and national media criticizing.... well, I don't really know how you can logically make the case that fans didn't criticize. And my argument was that I can understand if he leaves and don't blame him, as our fans weren't loyal to him up till recently. I didn't say that's the sole reason he would leave. Players leave teams for many reasons, and I can see that being one of his reasons when making a "pros and cons" list on whether to stay or go. And I'll be done, never meant to get at you like I did.

Also, I'm very pro-energy. My wife has been with a major for 10 years.

Westbrook IMO took a heap of criticism from the media. Now, K. D. hints that Westbrook was the problem all along. Yes, we understand that; he did wait until he cut ties with the organization to express his true feelings:


"If you work for a man, then by all means, work for him. If he pays you wages which supply your bread and butter, speak well of him; stand by him and the institution he represents. If put to a pinch, an ounce of loyalty is worth a pound of cleverness.

If you must vilify, condemn and eternally disparage – resign your position, and when you are outside, damn to your hearts content. But as long as you are part of the institution, do not condemn it.

IF you do that , you are loosening the tendrils that are holding you to the institution, and by the first high wind that comes along, you will be uprooted and blown away, and probably will never know why."

--Elbert Hubbard

Let's not condemn Westbrook based on Kevin Durant's recent decision.

There is no way you can trade Russ at the deadline. Who would go for that trade without the assurance of him signing THERE in July? It's this summer or wait until free agency. A lot of people already think it will be hard to move him for this whole season, now you're suggesting partial season? We would get nothing out of that.

Yup. I still think he's either extended (probably for a year or two) or traded before the season starts. It's the only way to get real value for him. I just hope like hell that it's the former. Our best chance is that Russ took the KD abandonment REALLY personally.

The Thunder have to either get a commitment from Westrbrook or trade him.

There is simply no way we can wait until the end of the next season and run the risk of losing two superstars within a year with absolutely nothing to show for it. It would likely devastate the franchise.

Also, it's impossible to rebuild the team until we know what he's going to do.

I suspect Presti will move heaven and earth to re-sign him ASAP and if that can't be accomplished, he has no choice to trade Russ while there is still some value there.

Russ may WANT to stay. I hope his circle points out that this is his opportunity to be the hero to OKC and and a villain to Curry and company. He will be the main star of our team. I hope he recognizes this opportunity.

Since we're talking Westbrook extending.

http://thefranchiseok.com/new-salary-cap-estimate-could-help-thunder-with-westbrook/

(Jon Hamm is a brilliant NBA salary cap guy. It will probably be a degree offered one day, it's very complex.)

And this tweet.

https://twitter.com/marniefernandez/status/751928941334573057

Russ has been a pretty big fan favorite all along. I do believe there was a big disconnect between what the media and the fans as a whole thought. I'll never forget one night in the fall (cannot for the life of me remember what year). Russ had had a terrible string of games with awful shooting. That night was no better. Towards the end of the game, IIRC, he went to the free throw line. He'd been missing free throws too. People started chanting his name and before long the whole arena was. It gave me goosebumps. I remember him commenting about how much that meant to him. And I've heard him say, "Best fans in all of sports" multiple times. He know he's loved here. Doesn't mean he'll stay, but if he doesn't, I do not believe the fans have anything to do with it.

His is the only jersey I've ever owned. I'm not in the habit of wearing them, but one night first season a man behind me said, "I like your shirt." I turned around and the man told me he was Russell's dad.

Russ has been a pretty big fan favorite all along. I do believe there was a big disconnect between what the media and the fans as a whole thought. I'll never forget one night in the fall (cannot for the life of me remember what year). Russ had had a terrible string of games with awful shooting. That night was no better. Towards the end of the game, IIRC, he went to the free throw line. He'd been missing free throws too. People started chanting his name and before long the whole arena was. It gave me goosebumps. I remember him commenting about how much that meant to him. And I've heard him say, "Best fans in all of sports" multiple times. He know he's loved here. Doesn't mean he'll stay, but if he doesn't, I do not believe the fans have anything to do with it.

His is the only jersey I've ever owned. I'm not in the habit of wearing them, but one night first season a man behind me said, "I like your shirt." I turned around and the man told me he was Russell's dad.

Great stories! Thanks for sharing.

During the very first Thunder game at the (then) Ford Center, I shouted "PUT IN WESTBROOK!!" at the top of my lungs (apologies to Earl Watson). I picked a point when it was quiet enough that I got looks from the bench. I've been on the Russ train ever since. Five years ago - tired of the Skip Baylesses of the world - I tweeted at him something to the effect of "eff the haters, do what you do."

Even when he was at his most raw and prone to making bad decisions, anyone who actually WATCHED Thunder games (as opposed to highlights) understood that his style of play actually created opportunities for his teammates that they just weren't capable of capitalizing upon. Including the tall guy out standing like a statue beyond the arc, waving his hand and pouting.

And I have met precious few fans here in OKC who didn't also mostly appreciate his game and what he was dealing with as far as teammates who couldn't score and/or wouldn't move without the ball. Anyone who knew the game, anyway.

That tweet about Russ and the kid encourages me a tiny bit, because during all of that time I have rarely heard/seen Russ promising things or saying what people WANT him to say. I've always felt in the back of my mind that KD was at least a LITTLE BIT insincere; I have NEVER seen insincerity in Russ. The dude is WYSIWYG.

Here's hoping.

I've thought some of Westbrook's critics were a bit harsh on him, but I would also bet if you asked him, he would admit that back several years ago they were right in some respects. He has improved massively in the last few years. And I think he will continue to get better and better. My only fear is that with his wild style of play, he could get hurt. Throughout most of this last year most people thought KD would stay and Westbrook would leave. And I thought to myself numerous times, if we only get to keep one, maybe Westbrook might be the better one. Of course BOTH would have been the best outcome. But as Westbrook gets better, he makes his teammates better.

durant also said at a season ticket member party a few years back (in front of a few thousand fans) that he would retire a thunder when asked by a kid.

technically he still could, but maybe we should just take what players say with a grain of salt...

He also stated at the Fan Appreciation day last year that his blood was Thunder Blue, and not to fear he was committed for life. I guess Jay-Z and Nike pushed a little harder after that.

Again, - as was pointed out in stories after he left - I think KD was prone to saying things that people want to hear, and honestly always thought him slightly insincere, though it might not even have been on purpose. I think KD wants just a little bit too much for people to like him, and that led to him being somewhat easily manipulated by people around him with self-interest.

Russell, on the other hand has never been much for platitudes, empty promises, etc.; he's mostly just kept his mouth shut and did his talking with the basketball. Mostly he just DGAF. If he was truly going out of his way to say those things at that camp, it gives me a sliver of hope that he actually means it, at least at this point. Which of course is not to say that things can't/won't change.

He also stated at the Fan Appreciation day last year that his blood was Thunder Blue, and not to fear he was committed for life. I guess Jay-Z and Nike pushed a little harder after that.

I've been reading/researching a lot on this topic since KD left. I started a long post with a post-mortem on his departure, but decided not to post it. We're all probably pretty tired of the KD2GSW talk at this point anyway. That said, I found this article from a couple of years ago - that I had previously missed - to be pretty fascinating and maybe a foreshadow of things to come with the Roc Nation representation: http://uproxx.com/dimemag/report-durant-left-team-usa-influence-agent-jay-z-roc-nation-sports/

Here is the complete article from Sheridan Hoops that is referenced in that Uproxx article. Keep in mind that this is from two years ago, and yet much of the criticism sounds eerily familiar to the KD2GSW criticism he's getting now. The difference is that KD's image and reputation in 2014 was so unassailable that the national media treated him with kid gloves. And, as we know, OKC media has always given him a pass...on EVERYTHING. So this is commentary that many of us never saw. Seriously, take a few minutes to read this; it's a little bit startling if you have been a KD fan up to this point: http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/08/15/sheridan-jay-z-taking-blame-for-durant-quitting-team-usa/

^

Wow.

^^^^^^
If you find that one interesting, try on this article from Bay Area media from a few days ago: Enjoy this delicious Kevin Durant-Nike conspiracy theory (http://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/Kevin-Durant-Nike-Warriors-conspiracy-theory-8341731.php)