Noticed today traveling on NW 23rd St from Broadway until Classen Blvd that the new speed limit is now 25 mph. Kind of makes the 25mph school zone for Dove Science Academy a bit redundant.

Noticed today traveling on NW 23rd St from Broadway until Classen Blvd that the new speed limit is now 25 mph. Kind of makes the 25mph school zone for Dove Science Academy a bit redundant.

Good news there. 23rd St. was scary to cross or park on at times when the speed limit was 35 (because of course people go 10 over it). Hopefully this makes Uptown a little more pedestrian friendly.

25 is way too low. :/

25 is way too low. :/

Definitely not when we're talking about a district where people are trying to safely walk along and cross the street. The link below illustrates this pretty well.


https://www.propublica.org/article/unsafe-at-many-speeds

Funny, I was thinking 25 might still be a tad high for an active pedestrian area.

25 is way too low. :/

Then go drive somewhere else.

Funny, I was thinking 25 might still be a tad high for an active pedestrian area.

The applicant originally requested 20 mph, but settled for 25. The Traffic Commission vote was 5-4 in favor, if I recall correctly. Wards 1, 3, 7 voted against; I can't recall who else voted no.

I'm glad they put new signs that say "NEW SPEED LIMIT" I was on there the other night and was about to go my usual 30.

I think 25 is fine. It is usually so busy that I never actually got to 35 anyway. Most people I saw go that were swerving around cars. A good idea for this area as walkability increases.

Then go drive somewhere else.

25 MPH is too slow. It is a street. As long as pedestrians use a crosswalk and walk where they're supposed to then all would be fine. But it is what it is. :cool:

25 MPH is too slow. It is a street. As long as pedestrians use a crosswalk and walk where they're supposed to then all would be fine. But it is what it is. :cool:

If that is the case, why aren't neighborhood streets over 25? Just a street. Stay out of the car's way.

If that is the case, why aren't neighborhood streets over 25? Just a street. Stay out of the car's way.

Most neighborhood streets aren't four-laned with a median. And those crosswalks along NW 23rd aren't there just for looks. They're there to protect pedestrians.

25 MPH is too slow. It is a street. As long as pedestrians use a crosswalk and walk where they're supposed to then all would be fine. But it is what it is. :cool:

Evidence indicates that car speed makes a dramatic difference in whether a pedestrian survives being hit by a car. There's a huge difference between 35 and 25 mph in the survival rate. If there are going to be more pedestrians in the area then they must make sure cars are moving slower.

Of course, in addition to lowering the speed limit, changing the streetscape -- skinnier lanes, more crosswalks, other visual cues to drivers to slow down -- is even more effective. This whole stretch of 23rd street needs to be slowed significantly as there will be more and more pedestrians in the future. The crosswalk by Tower Theatre is a great start too.

Evidence indicates that car speed makes a dramatic difference in whether a pedestrian survives being hit by a car. There's a huge difference between 35 and 25 mph in the survival rate. If there are going to be more pedestrians in the area then they must make sure cars are moving slower.

Of course, in addition to lowering the speed limit, changing the streetscape -- skinnier lanes, more crosswalks, other visual cues to drivers to slow down -- is even more effective. This whole stretch of 23rd street needs to be slowed significantly as there will be more and more pedestrians in the future. The crosswalk by Tower Theatre is a great addition.

I was all-in for making that stretch two-lane and turning one of the lanes in each direction into a pedestrian/bicycle lane. But oh well.

25 MPH is too slow. It is a street. As long as pedestrians use a crosswalk and walk where they're supposed to then all would be fine. But it is what it is. :cool:

And if people didn't break the current speed limit, swerve through traffic, make lane changes without using their signals, and watch out for pedestrians in general instead of treating our streets like their own personal race car tracks.... There probably wouldn't be a problem with the current speed limit either..... but they do.

I was all-in for making that stretch two-lane and turning one of the lanes in each direction into a pedestrian/bicycle lane. But oh well.

I'm not sure what the car counts are on 23rd, but I'd love to see it go to one lane with protected bike lanes and improved sidewalks. That's the dream.

One lane can handle about 10,000 cars per day, right? I think I remember hearing that, but I could be off.

I think people are used to using 23rd as a quick crosstown. I think this is a good first step, along with the Tower Theatre midblock crosswalk, in moving to a more pedestrian friendly section.

I'm not sure what the car counts are on 23rd, but I'd love to see it go to one lane with protected bike lanes and improved sidewalks. That's the dream.

One lane can handle about 10,000 cars per day, right? I think I remember hearing that, but I could be off.

That would be amazing! Would love to see that. Broadway can also go down to two lanes as it gets more filled in. Would love to have bike paths and wider sidewalks there too.

The best option is to lose the median, widen sidewalks, protected bike lane(s), and bring the auto lanes down to ONE LANE in each direction(!!!), but with a center turn lane. On 23rd most of the congestion revolves around left turns onto side streets. And most of the weaving/darting/speeding is by people trying to avoid congestion they spot up ahead. It might sound counter-intuitive, but a single lane in each direction with a turn lane can usually carry more traffic - more efficiently and safely - than a four-lane street with no turn lane and lots of side streets.

You can read about such a road diet here, straight from the Federal Highway Administration: http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/road_diets/


A classic Road Diet typically involves converting an existing four-lane, undivided roadway segment to a three-lane segment consisting of two through lanes and a center, two-way left-turn lane.

The resulting benefits include a crash reduction of 19 to 47 percent, reduced vehicle speed differential, improved mobility and access by all road users, and integration of the roadway into surrounding uses that results in an enhanced quality of life. A key feature of a Road Diet is that it allows reclaimed space to be allocated for other uses, such as turn lanes, bus lanes, pedestrian refuge islands, bike lanes, sidewalks, bus shelters, parking or landscaping.

Why consider a Road Diet? Four-lane undivided highways experience relatively high crash frequencies — especially as traffic volumes and turning movements increase over time — resulting in conflicts between high-speed through traffic, left-turning vehicles and other road users. FHWA has deemed Road Diets a proven safety countermeasure and promotes them as a safety-focused design alternative to a traditional four-lane, undivided roadway. Road Diet-related crash modification factors are also available for use in safety countermeasure benefit-cost analysis.

http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/road_diets/images/reconfiguration2.jpg

Definitely not when we're talking about a district where people are trying to safely walk along and cross the street. The link below illustrates this pretty well.


https://www.propublica.org/article/unsafe-at-many-speeds

I've seen that graph. 25 is still too low. Even here in LA in very walkable districts, we manage to get by with 30-35. 35 was a good speed limit. I would not have said anything if they lowered it to 30, but 25? Come on.

OKC in general has some of lowest speed limits on major roads I've ever seen.

If that is the case, why aren't neighborhood streets over 25? Just a street. Stay out of the car's way.
25 is a good area for a street. I don't even mind 20 for neighborhood streets. Granted I will admit I don't pay attention to the speed limits anyways. OKC just has small town mentality. I'm not saying that to be argumentative, it's just what I notice.

Any solution is the easiest, right? Just lower the speed limits. Because they will actually work. How about redesigning the street? Adding mid section crosswalks?

All this will cause is more people to swerve around cars. I will be very interested in seeing accident rates in this area and how this affects it.

And if people didn't break the current speed limit, swerve through traffic, make lane changes without using their signals, and watch out for pedestrians in general instead of treating our streets like their own personal race car tracks.... There probably wouldn't be a problem with the current speed limit either..... but they do.

So that is how you view speed limits? Just something everyone will do 10 over on? So if someone wants to follow the law, they have to go unreasonably slow because people such as yourself think everyone else is going to do 10 over?

Evidence indicates that car speed makes a dramatic difference in whether a pedestrian survives being hit by a car. There's a huge difference between 35 and 25 mph in the survival rate. If there are going to be more pedestrians in the area then they must make sure cars are moving slower.So why isn't every street 25MPH then?

So why isn't every street 25MPH then?

Maybe because there will be an increase of pedestrians in the area? Dankrutka's third sentence in that paragraph...

So why isn't every street 25MPH then?

They should be... for you. Congress should pass a federal law that requires Plutonic Panda to drive 25 mph on all streets and highways. ;) And maybe the UN could get countries around the world to adopt it also. Have fun driving 25 mph on the Autobahn. ;)

Seriously though, we have a perception problem. When a car runs over pedestrian we just call it an accident. We don't consider that we created dangerous conditions that made the accident -- or death -- more likely to occur. We had this same problem with car design and seatbelts before Ralph Nader wrote Unsafe at Any Speed in 1965. We need to change how we view pedestrian safety and car culture in this country. Fortunately, it's slowly starting to happen.

They should be... for you. Congress should pass a federal law that requires Plutonic Panda to drive 25 mph on all streets and highways. ;) And maybe the UN could get countries around the world to adopt it also. Have fun driving 25 mph on the Autobahn. ;)

Seriously though, we have a perception problem. When a car runs over pedestrian we just call it an accident. We don't consider that we created dangerous conditions that made the accident -- or death -- more likely to occur. We had this same problem with car design and seatbelts before Ralph Nader wrote Unsafe at Any Speed in 1965. We need to change how we view pedestrian safety and car culture in this country. Fortunately, it's slowly starting to happen.
noooooooo!!!! ha but I've never driven the autobahn before that's no fair.

We need better protection for pedestrians, but a sign with some reflective material is a cop out. Literally too for the police to make more money. People won't slow down. The whole road needs to be redesigned if people want speeds that low.

So that is how you view speed limits? Just something everyone will do 10 over on? So if someone wants to follow the law, they have to go unreasonably slow because people such as yourself think everyone else is going to do 10 over?

Well 10 MPH over is a number you created.... I'm passed nearly every morning on Walker, which is 40 MPH, by people that are doing more than 10 over the speed limit.

All I ask is that people obey the law and don't endanger other peoples lives and property. Something you show little respect for with your attitude towards speed limits.

The best option is to lose the median, widen sidewalks, protected bike lane(s), and bring the auto lanes down to ONE LANE in each direction(!!!), but with a center turn lane. On 23rd most of the congestion revolves around left turns onto side streets. And most of the weaving/darting/speeding is by people trying to avoid congestion they spot up ahead. It might sound counter-intuitive, but a single lane in each direction with a turn lane can usually carry more traffic - more efficiently and safely - than a four-lane street with no turn lane and lots of side streets.

You can read about such a road diet here, straight from the Federal Highway Administration: http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/road_diets/



http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/road_diets/images/reconfiguration2.jpg

I agree, the median on 23rd is a hindrance to the cars AND the pedestrians. It gives a false sense of security for jaywalkers to have a 'halfway point' and takes up turn lane real estate.

23rd should 100% be exactly like the photo above, one lane each direction with bicycle lane, and a turn lane in the center.

Not to mention, the quality of the street is really poor on 23rd, it is in need of a revamp on all fronts - cars, bikes, crosswalks, sidewalks.

I've seen that graph. 25 is still too low. Even here in LA in very walkable districts, we manage to get by with 30-35. 35 was a good speed limit. I would not have said anything if they lowered it to 30, but 25? Come on.

OKC in general has some of lowest speed limits on major roads I've ever seen.

To clarify, the area used to be 30mph and it has been lowered to 25, so only 5 mph difference, not 10mph.

I took a tour of the Tower Theatre with Wanzer several months ago and he said they were hoping for a speed decrease of at least 5mph, if not 10mph and would really like to see the road reworked like Chad (Urbanized) suggested to two through lanes, one turn lane, dedicated bike lanes and wider sidewalks. I think he was hoping for angled parking, but I am not sure that would work on such a busy thorough fare.

There's really not much reason for the stretch between Classen and I-235 to be so busy. We're a North to South city so the vast majority of people leaving the Capital should get on 235 directly. No reason to go to Classen to avoid traffic, because that corridor is only going to get busier with it's own traffic between increasingly popular and dense areas of the inner NW side and downtown.

The thing that would make the biggest difference to decongest 23rd has been mentioned repeatedly on this forum: eliminate left turns on 23rd @ Lee, Dewey, Walker, Hudson, and Harvey.

The thing that would make the biggest difference to decongest 23rd has been mentioned repeatedly on this forum: eliminate left turns on 23rd @ Lee, Dewey, Walker, Hudson, and Harvey.

I agree but how are you going to do that? Signs won't stop it. People will just ignore the signs like they do the ones at Western and Main.

OKC in general has some of lowest speed limits on major roads I've ever seen.

Seriously? I've been here coming up on 4 years and I'm still surprised at how fast the speed limits are around the metro. Most major roads in OKC or Norman will have speed limits of 40 or 45 mph. Do you know what the speed limit is on the northern part of the NJ *TURNPIKE*? 55 mph. Not that anyone obeys it, but still. And there are sections where it is 50 mph. The main 4-lane arterial road through my hometown in NJ (maybe analogous to Classen) has a speed limit of 25 mph, just like every other local road in the city. There are places in the metro that I'm uncomfortable going the speed limit because I think it is too fast, particularly on some of the more rural roads with hills. For such a crowded and narrow stretch of NW 23rd with pedestrian activity, 25 mph is appropriate.

I agree but how are you going to do that? Signs won't stop it. People will just ignore the signs like they do the ones at Western and Main.

Stamp "NO Left Turns" *on* the road, sign on the light pole, straight arrow greens, paint the yellow line all the way across and then enforce the law. Stamps on the road are the most effective thing I've ever encountered as a driver. From speed limits, to highway lane changes and directional instruction. Drivers read roads better than they do signs. If it continues to be a problem, place a timeable barrier that cuts off all cross-traffic at those intersections between 7AM-9AM and 4PM-7PM.

http://www.advanced-digital.co.uk/wp-stuff/uploads/recessed-bollard.jpg

If it continues to be a problem, place a timeable barrier that cuts off all cross-traffic at those intersections between 7AM-9AM and 4PM-7PM.


Well the timeable barriers is the only option I see listed that would work but that would also stop cross traffic as well. If you're going to go that far just leave the medians for landscaping purposes.

Stamp "NO Left Turns" *on* the road, sign on the light pole, straight arrow greens, paint the yellow line all the way across and then enforce the law. Stamps on the road are the most effective thing I've ever encountered as a driver. From speed limits, to highway lane changes and directional instruction. Drivers read roads better than they do signs. If it continues to be a problem, place a timeable barrier that cuts off all cross-traffic at those intersections between 7AM-9AM and 4PM-7PM.

http://www.advanced-digital.co.uk/wp-stuff/uploads/recessed-bollard.jpg

For some reason I get an image in my head of Oklahoma drivers just crashing into these then blaming the government.

Honestly those little barriers would be great. Just need the funding...oh wait.

There's really not much reason for the stretch between Classen and I-235 to be so busy. We're a North to South city so the vast majority of people leaving the Capital should get on 235 directly. No reason to go to Classen to avoid traffic, because that corridor is only going to get busier with it's own traffic between increasingly popular and dense areas of the inner NW side and downtown.

The thing that would make the biggest difference to decongest 23rd has been mentioned repeatedly on this forum: eliminate left turns on 23rd @ Lee, Dewey, Walker, Hudson, and Harvey.

From what I have seen traveling in the area is people are leaving the capital, avoiding 235 north because of how busy it is and trying to make it to I-44. I live at 23rd and May and see a line of cars coming from the east to get on the highway every day.

From what I have seen traveling in the area is people are leaving the capital, avoiding 235 north because of how busy it is and trying to make it to I-44. I live at 23rd and May and see a line of cars coming from the east to get on the highway every day.

No doubt that's the issue, but I-235 is there for a reason. Whenever they get around to finishing the flyovers and increasing the lanes at the 44/235 interchange, this should become a non-issue.

Well 10 MPH over is a number you created.... I'm passed nearly every morning on Walker, which is 40 MPH, by people that are doing more than 10 over the speed limit.

All I ask is that people obey the law and don't endanger other peoples lives and property. Something you show little respect for with your attitude towards speed limits.
Yeah. I've killed and injured soooooo many people with my speeding habits. It's such a shame.

Yeah. I've killed and injured soooooo many people with my speeding habits. It's such a shame.

Yes it is.

Seriously? I've been here coming up on 4 years and I'm still surprised at how fast the speed limits are around the metro. Most major roads in OKC or Norman will have speed limits of 40 or 45 mph. Do you know what the speed limit is on the northern part of the NJ *TURNPIKE*? 55 mph. Not that anyone obeys it, but still. And there are sections where it is 50 mph. The main 4-lane arterial road through my hometown in NJ (maybe analogous to Classen) has a speed limit of 25 mph, just like every other local road in the city. There are places in the metro that I'm uncomfortable going the speed limit because I think it is too fast, particularly on some of the more rural roads with hills. For such a crowded and narrow stretch of NW 23rd with pedestrian activity, 25 mph is appropriate.

Yeah seriously. The NJ Turnpike is getting a speed limit increase and most people do well over 100 on there anyways. I was doing 110 and passed by people regularly. Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City, Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles, San Francisco etc. Most of San Frans streets are 30-35. Think OKC beats San Fran in walkability?

The suburbs of Dallas are mostly at 45-55 even 60 on roads. Suburbs in OKC? You'll be lucky with 45 and since they keep seemingly downgrading every road to 40 or 35, 45 will start to become rarer sight in OKC. I was shocked at how many roads were 45 in NW OKC. I don't know when it happened, but a lot of those roads used to be 45. They should really be 50.

NW Expressway is 45. smh. 55 is more than appropriate and I'd even want 60, but I'm not going to push it.

As for highways, I don't see any highway in OKC except the Belle Isle Expressway that should be under 70, but I was mainly talking about streets. Highways here in LA are generally more consistent with 65MPH than OKC is with 70. I do over 100 almost every day and I haven't been messed with here? Why, because there is actual crime to worry about. Not someone like bbq eater who goes apesh!t over it. It isn't a big deal. Speed doesn't kill. Wreckless drivers do. Look at Wisconsin when they mandated speed limits how much fatalities went up.

I just don't understand why people focus so much on speed limits. It must be a revenue thing. If you want people to drive slower, than design the road for it. I just don't get why NW 23rd needs to be 25MPH though this section. Granted, it is just a small section and won't take that long to get through, but I wouldn't have even have said anything if it was just 30(which I still think is too low).

Anyhow, I still drive very fast and don't have the problems with cops that I did in OKC, so that's a plus. I suppose they have better things to worry about here. Cities in the NE are notorious with 55mph speed limits, but this coming to an end. No one every respected them anyways and it usually takes you more than 25 over to get pulled over or driving like a jackass.

But if anything, I hope this works well for the area. I'd love to see it truly boom and become something like Congress St. in Austin.

Yes it is.

Come on. The only wreck I've ever been involved in was because some lady hit me texting and driving. Go after people like her. Go after people swerving through traffic going 100. Don't go after people like me who do 100 or so in the fast lane with no one in front of me.

We have a law going into effect which eliminates the 65mph, 70mph, and 75mph maximums (for their various highway types). It will be interested to see if ODOT raises any speed limits.

SF has been working to reduce speed limits.. here is an example from 2015

http://www.sfbos.org/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=51481

if you think municipalities are working to Increase speed limits and that poor OKC is left in the dirt thinking slower speeds mean fewer accidents, injuries and fatalities. You are mistaken.

nobody is impressed by boasting about ignoring speed limits and fast driving. I say go after people who are breaking the law and that includes going 100 with nobody in front of you.

We have a law going into effect which eliminates the 65mph, 70mph, and 75mph maximums (for their various highway types). It will be interested to see if ODOT raises any speed limits.

I don't think they are going to. They addressed it here: http://ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=22621 and said this


Speed limits are set by ODOT based on engineering and safety measures and highways are currently signed for proper speed limits.

so it doesn't look like they are pushing for any increases. My guess it would be for the turnpikes to raise them to 80 or 85 and make them more competitive against the interstates.

I wish they interstate speed limits would be raised to at least 85, but in Oklahoma's defense, ODOT actually does a good job of setting state highway limits. It's awesome to be able to go 70 on a four lane divided at grade highway to Woodward. There aren't very many states that will let you do that on a highway of such type.

SF has been working to reduce speed limits.. here is an example from 2015

http://www.sfbos.org/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=51481


They've been trying it for years. We'll see if it happens.

One thing they are doing is taking roads and making it illegal to go straight as to discourage any through traffic.

Anyways, I'll leave it at that. The only place this goes from here is people saying "you're just trying to impress others on here with your speeding" or twisting my words and making some strawman argument, which is evident by your post.

Why do you need to go so fast? Just for fun? Always late?

Seriously? I've been here coming up on 4 years and I'm still surprised at how fast the speed limits are around the metro. Most major roads in OKC or Norman will have speed limits of 40 or 45 mph. Do you know what the speed limit is on the northern part of the NJ *TURNPIKE*? 55 mph. Not that anyone obeys it, but still. And there are sections where it is 50 mph. The main 4-lane arterial road through my hometown in NJ (maybe analogous to Classen) has a speed limit of 25 mph, just like every other local road in the city. There are places in the metro that I'm uncomfortable going the speed limit because I think it is too fast, particularly on some of the more rural roads with hills. For such a crowded and narrow stretch of NW 23rd with pedestrian activity, 25 mph is appropriate.

Portland interstates are 55mph, city streets 25-35mph, even out in the suburbs.

Doesn't matter, as traffic doesn't get above 5 mph on most of the highways anyway except for about 10p-4am.

Why do you need to go so fast? Just for fun? Always late?

10 over is the most I'll do anymore, and that's on the interstate. 5-7 over on the city streets, unless it's a neighborhood street and I'll usually go under the speed limit.

Used to drive faster but I have broken that habit.

Why do you need to go so fast? Just for fun? Always late?I will post one more thing :p

Perhaps I'm just young. I don't know. I enjoy going fast. It's fun to me.

I see.

I will post one more thing :p

Perhaps I'm just young. I don't know. I enjoy going fast. It's fun to me.

Public streets are not the place to be having fun. It's not your personal race track. You may not have had an accident and you may never have an accident but if you do have an accident at that rate of speed... You may never drive again.... But you're young.... You don't have to consider stuff like being responsible... Do you?

I remember being young... I did plenty of stupid crap too.... Hopefully you grow out of it some day like I did. And fortunately for me I grew out of it before I seriously hurt someone.

25 MPH is too slow. It is a street. As long as pedestrians use a crosswalk and walk where they're supposed to then all would be fine. But it is what it is. :cool:

I'm sorry but there is no ifs, ands or buts on this. You are wrong. If you lived near here, or spent any time walking or street parking on 23rd street, I don't know how you could have that opinion.

I'm sorry but there is no ifs, ands or buts on this. You are wrong. If you lived near here, or spent any time walking or street parking on 23rd street, I don't know how you could have that opinion.

LOL, can't have a "wrong" opinion, bub. 25MPH is a school zone speed limit, set that low because kids are unpredictable and generally may not know to use a crosswalk, etc., Adults on the other hand, along NW 23rd, should know how to use a crosswalk. Last I checked, but streets generally are built to accommodate vehicular traffic and there are sidewalks next to said streets for walking. Thanks, but no thanks.

LOL, can't have a "wrong" opinion, bub. 25MPH is a school zone speed limit, set that low because kids are unpredictable and generally may not know to use a crosswalk, etc., Adults on the other hand, along NW 23rd, should know how to use a crosswalk. Last I checked, but streets generally are built to accommodate vehicular traffic and there are sidewalks next to said streets for walking. Thanks, but no thanks.

Yes, most adults "know how to use a crosswalk." That doesn't mean that adult pedestrians are not killed by cars every day. You don't pass laws for the society you want, but the one you have. In almost every area we take steps to ensure that people aren't killed, hurt, or exposed to unnecessary risks. We don't say, surely adults know not to eat bad meat or surely adults know to put a child in a carseat. We pass laws to ensure less people eat unsafe meat or put their children at increased risk. Streets with speeding cars are no different.

Besides the safety argument, there is an economic benefit to slowing traffic in urban areas with lots of businesses along the streets.

Lastly, streets are not just for cars (historically, streets existed well before cars). Cyclists are supposed to bike on city streets. Pedestrians must regularly cross streets to get anywhere. When cars are in an area with lots of cyclists and/or pedestrians then the streets and laws should adjust accordingly.

LOL, can't have a "wrong" opinion, bub. 25MPH is a school zone speed limit, set that low because kids are unpredictable and generally may not know to use a crosswalk, etc., Adults on the other hand, along NW 23rd, should know how to use a crosswalk. Last I checked, but streets generally are built to accommodate vehicular traffic and there are sidewalks next to said streets for walking. Thanks, but no thanks.

"25 mph is too slow" that statement is incorrect.

Try using the street parking on 23rd sometime. If you can't understand what I'm talking about after doing so, then there's nothing I can do for you.

LOL, can't have a "wrong" opinion, bub. 25MPH is a school zone speed limit, set that low because kids are unpredictable and generally may not know to use a crosswalk, etc., Adults on the other hand, along NW 23rd, should know how to use a crosswalk. Last I checked, but streets generally are built to accommodate vehicular traffic and there are sidewalks next to said streets for walking. Thanks, but no thanks.
"25 mph is too slow" that statement is incorrect.

Try using the street parking on 23rd sometime. If you can't understand what I'm talking about after doing so, then there's nothing I can do for you.
That is why downtown Norman, Noble, and Purcell is 25 as well. Try backing out of a parking space in a small car with one of those big deulies blocking your view while people are going 35-45 miles an hour. It is already bad enough at 25-35. Norman should be 20, and I imagine that 23rd st should be as well, it isn't just pedestrian safety, it is also people trying to park/get out of parking.

"25 mph is too slow" that statement is incorrect.

Try using the street parking on 23rd sometime. If you can't understand what I'm talking about after doing so, then there's nothing I can do for you.

"25 mph is too slow that statement is incorrect. " -- sorry bub, but that is an opinion also. Geesh.

I've parked along this stretch many times for tats, BBQ, pizza, tacos, what have ya. I've never had a problem getting out. Then again I learned to drive in Dallas so maybe I'm used to the speed.

If you need things to be slower so you can manage, then NW 23rd is all for you. And there's nothing I can do for you. Take care. :cool:

LOL, can't have a "wrong" opinion, bub.

Of course it's possible to have a wrong opinion. Just because the sky is green in my opinion, it doesn't mean my wrong opinion is right.

Of course it's possible to have a wrong opinion. Just because the sky is green in my opinion, it doesn't mean my wrong opinion is right.

Dude, we're talking about speed limits with different variables involved, not the sky color. And everyone has a different opinion on what speed is right, which is just that an opinion. I am not expressing something factually correct or incorrect, therefore it's my opinion on the matter just like everyone else has one. Besides, you stating the sky is green is not an opinion, it's a factually incorrect statement.

People people, why can't we just have differences of opinions without being children and pointing stupid rights or wrongs? Just responding to a comment with a stupid accusation or something is just plain dumb and just hijacks and kills a thread.

Now, TFC.ORG responded with a fantastic, intelligent response which might actually allow me to refigure my "opinion" on the entire matter.

People insisting on things simply because it is their opinion always rubs me the wrong way. There are plenty of complicated topics where it is entirely possible to hold a wrong opinion based on the expert analysis involved, and speed limits in pedestrian areas is a great example of that.

We just had Panda go on for a while about how he wants the speed limit to be faster largely because he likes to drive fast. Maybe your opinon on this is more complex than that, but don't tell me that all feelings on the matter are equally valid just because its not as simple of a topic as others.

The bottom line is most people didn't even honor the 30MPH limit before.

Drivers tend to go as fast as the conditions allow and changing a speed limit will have little actual effect other than cops making more money off of tickets if they choose to try and enforce.

The speed limit east of Classen on 23rd is 30 as well and nobody obeys it because it's a four lane major arterial with few lights.