People insisting on things simply because it is their opinion always rubs me the wrong way. There are plenty of complicated topics where it is entirely possible to hold a wrong opinion based on the expert analysis involved, and speed limits in pedestrian areas is a great example of that.

We just had Panda go on for a while about how he wants the speed limit to be faster largely because he likes to drive fast. Maybe your opinon on this is more complex than that, but don't tell me that all feelings on the matter are equally valid just because its not as simple of a topic as others.

I would like to think that everyone's opinion matters, and I don't ever call someone's opinion stupid or even imply it's dumb. My only personal agenda here is to read and learn, make opinionated comment, and have a civil and intelligent conversation about stuff. Everyone has something to offer. Panda wanting to go faster, well that's Panda's wish. I'm not going to say Panda's opinion is wrong because he/she likes to go fast. Just because you have a difference in opinion doesn't mean you devalue the other person's thought. That's not right man. Maybe you shouldn't be on a message board because it's all about opinions on here. David, Platinum Member, is right! and nobody better question that or you're dumb -- is that the kind of message you want people to get from you? Man, don't devalue other people's opinions just because you think you're right. Sorry man, but that ain't cool. Learn to have civil discussion.

Back on topic, Pete is right. Most folks don't really pay attention to speed limits anyway and drive to the conditions. Look for motorcycle cops all along here pretty quick!

Look for motorcycle cops all along here pretty quick!

If only that were reality. The cops don't have the resources to sit out and watch all that often. They might start doing it a bit more often now, but I bet they'll keep focusing on their other spots (Broadway Ext. on Sunday mornings, Broadway b/w 20th & 13th, I-44 between NW 10th & 39th Exp, etc.).

I would like to think that everyone's opinion matters, and I don't ever call someone's opinion stupid or even imply it's dumb. My only personal agenda here is to read and learn, make opinionated comment, and have a civil and intelligent conversation about stuff. Everyone has something to offer. Panda wanting to go faster, well that's Panda's wish. I'm not going to say Panda's opinion is wrong because he/she likes to go fast. Just because you have a difference in opinion doesn't mean you devalue the other person's thought. That's not right man. Maybe you shouldn't be on a message board because it's all about opinions on here. David, Platinum Member, is right! and nobody better question that or you're dumb -- is that the kind of message you want people to get from you? Man, don't devalue other people's opinions just because you think you're right. Sorry man, but that ain't cool. Learn to have civil discussion.

Who here has said your opinion is stupid? Who here has implied it is dumb? Where did I ever say that if you question me you are dumb? Wrong is not the same thing as dumb. Do not put words in my mouth and then claim that I am the one who needs to learn to have a civil conversation.

And no, do not tell me that Panda's opinion on speed limits is not incorrect when that opinion is based on wanting to go fast down a residential street.

The speed limit east of Classen on 23rd is 30 as well and nobody obeys it because it's a four lane major arterial with few lights.

West of Classen it's 30mph. East of Classen it's 25mph.

And no, do not tell me that Panda's opinion on speed limits is not incorrect when that opinion is based on wanting to go fast down a residential street.Really? So now opinions can be wrong? lol that is a good narrative to support yours, I guess.

Where did I say I want to go fast down a residential street?

This whole stupid argument about opinions reminds me of a funny experience in college.

First day of music appreciation the professor told us - "You've been coddled and treated like special little snowflakes your whole life, and told that all opinions are valid, and there's no such thing as a wrong opinion. Well, that's BS. There are right opinions, and wrong opinions, and you're here to learn the right ones."

Now about 23rd st....

That is your professors opinion. I'm not saying my opinion is right, either.

That is your professors opinion. I'm not saying my opinion is right, either.

I wasn't trying to get into that, once again, stupid argument. I was just telling a story.

I'm still waiting for someone to pull out "I'm rubber you're glue."

Dude, we're talking about speed limits with different variables involved, not the sky color. And everyone has a different opinion on what speed is right, which is just that an opinion. I am not expressing something factually correct or incorrect, therefore it's my opinion on the matter just like everyone else has one. Besides, you stating the sky is green is not an opinion, it's a factually incorrect statement.

People people, why can't we just have differences of opinions without being children and pointing stupid rights or wrongs? Just responding to a comment with a stupid accusation or something is just plain dumb and just hijacks and kills a thread.

Now, TFC.ORG responded with a fantastic, intelligent response which might actually allow me to refigure my "opinion" on the entire matter.

Can't have much of a discussion when you won't admit that you're wrong:cool:

Can't have much of a discussion when you won't admit that you're wrong:cool:

Why do i feel like i'm in a Seinfeld episode?

I think the speed limit should remain the same because it is a street made for vehicular traffic and is a major route through that part of town. You think the speed limit should be lowered because of the amount of pedestrian traffic and the need for easier parking. It is fact that a street is built for a vehicle and it is also fact that there is a bunch of pedestrian traffic along the street, therefore both are opinions of the subject and neither of which are wrong. I don't know how much more basic you need it but now I'm wondering about that honors picture you got there. :eek:

Geeeesh, anyway....

Now if we can just get that whole stretch of 23rd resurfaced. . . . . I still think turning this stretch into a two-way facility with a middle turn lane and outside dedicated bike/ped lanes would have been the best way to do it up.

The speed limit east of Classen on 23rd is 30 as well and nobody obeys it because it's a four lane major arterial with few lights.

I assume you didn't really mean nobody, because that's not true, I promise you that any time I'm driving in that area I watch the speed closely just as I do on every other street in OKC regardless of how it is designed.

I assume you didn't really mean nobody, because that's not true, I promise you that any time I'm driving in that area I watch the speed closely just as I do on every other street in OKC regardless of how it is designed.

You must be a somebody! ;)

Is there too much traffic on 23rd to consider narrowing it to 1 traffic lane each way?

^^^^^^^^
I don't think so. If you read the link I posted above or other articles on road diets, when properly implemented they can actually improve level of service, capacity and AVERAGE transit time. In other words, it can also improve the experience for the automobile drivers (!!!). Since much of the congestion centers around turning vehicles and a lot of the speeding and sudden, dangerous lane changes involve people trying to go around people stopping for turns, if you take them out of the equation altogether with a center turn lane you will enable most autos to make it through more quickly, even with a lower speed limit.

Too often people get concerned with speed limits rather than what they SOULD be more concerned with; namely getting through the area as quickly and efficiently as possible. You could have a speed limit of 70, but if you are stuck behind someone turning left your effective speed limit is zero. And oh, by the way, a different car is coming up behind you at 70.

Why do i feel like i'm in a Seinfeld episode?

I think the speed limit should remain the same because it is a street made for vehicular traffic and is a major route through that part of town. You think the speed limit should be lowered because of the amount of pedestrian traffic and the need for easier parking. It is fact that a street is built for a vehicle and it is also fact that there is a bunch of pedestrian traffic along the street, therefore both are opinions of the subject and neither of which are wrong. I don't know how much more basic you need it but now I'm wondering about that honors picture you got there. :eek:

Geeeesh, anyway....

Now if we can just get that whole stretch of 23rd resurfaced. . . . . I still think turning this stretch into a two-way facility with a middle turn lane and outside dedicated bike/ped lanes would have been the best way to do it up.

Wrong. Streets are for people.

In terms of a road diet, 23rd currently carries a bit more daily traffic than the FHWA recommends as the upper limit of a 3-lane road diet. Not saying it wouldn't work, but it would be pushing the previously-studied limits of a road diet from 4 to 3 lanes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AFn7MiJz_s

^^^^^^^
The beauty of the grid is that the excess traffic would likely just move elsewhere.

^^^^^^^
The beauty of the grid is that the excess traffic would likely just move elsewhere.

Likely, and 13th would probably be the quickest route. 13th also could use a road diet and lower speed limit. Can't believe it's 35 MPH from Western/Classen to Broadway & beyond.

Likely, and 13th would probably be the quickest route. 13th also could use a road diet and lower speed limit. Can't believe it's 35 MPH from Western/Classen to Broadway & beyond.

13th would benefit greatly from a dedicated turning lane and synced lights.

Likely, and 13th would probably be the quickest route. 13th also could use a road diet and lower speed limit. Can't believe it's 35 MPH from Western/Classen to Broadway & beyond.

This. 13th needs to be narrowed and have the speed reduced. And a roundabout for 13th, Shartel, and Classen Dr.

This. 13th needs to be narrowed and have the speed reduced. And a roundabout for 13th, Shartel, and Classen Dr.

Ahhh yes.

What really should happen is they should turn over this street to me and give me complete control and authority to set speed limits, number of lanes, and all that good stuff. I'll take care of it.

What really should happen is they should turn over this street to me and give me complete control and authority to set speed limits, number of lanes, and all that good stuff. I'll take care of it.

Let me guess... :p

12734

Let me guess... :p

12734

:bow:

Let me guess... :p

12734

I like it but it's a taaaaaad bit narrow. Needs to be a little wider.

Lol