Exactly. The luxury tax would be killing OKC right now. Casual fans don't understand the inter-workings of the NBA, they just say ignorant stuff like "OKC is too cheap". When that doesn't even make sense. These are the same "fans" who are posting on social media saying to use KD's would-be salary to fund state education. Like really?

If OKC was aware of the future of the CBA, no doubt we keep Harden. But it didn't happen and we still had an elite squad and were headed to our best chance ever at a 'ship. Yet KD still screwed over this franchise. People are trying to make this entire thing out to be something OKC did, or Presti, or Russ... But I think what we really found out is who KD really is. And that is a punk.

I listened to the true hoops podcast and Brian Windhorst does a really good job explaining the Harden deal with the cap and he OKC really got screwed and basically everybody avoids the tax. Even some of the richest people in the NBA. Give it a listen if you get a chance.

Exactly. The luxury tax would be killing OKC right now. Casual fans don't understand the inter-workings of the NBA, they just say ignorant stuff like "OKC is too cheap". When that doesn't even make sense. These are the same "fans" who are posting on social media saying to use KD's would-be salary to fund state education. Like really?

If OKC was aware of the future of the CBA, no doubt we keep Harden. But it didn't happen and we still had an elite squad and were headed to our best chance ever at a 'ship. Yet KD still screwed over this franchise. People are trying to make this entire thing out to be something OKC did, or Presti, or Russ... But I think what we really found out is who KD really is. And that is a punk.

I agree. All KD cares about is himself. I appreciate all he did for OKC, but his true character has really come out here. All he cares about is rings, increasing his endorsements, etc. It's okay to want to improve yourself, but sometimes in life you have to think about more than just yourself.

I hate the thought process that basketball players or any SPORT for that matter don't owe anything to fans. If it wasn't for fans all of these athletes would be playing basketball and making as much as professional lacrosse players. Literally their whole world as they know it is due to fans supporting them.

I agree. All KD cares about is himself. I appreciate all he did for OKC, but his true character has really come out here. All he cares about is rings, increasing his endorsements, etc. It's okay to want to improve yourself, but sometimes in life you have to think about more than just yourself.

I'm stunned reading takes like this. First, we're all working with a huge information deficit. None of us know exactly why KD left despite what we read. Second, asking other people to make sacrifices in their jobs and lives so you can have more joy seems, well, selfish.

All an employee owes their company is their full dedication while they're there. It's KDs life and making the decisions he wants is not selfish on any level.

I hate the thought process that basketball players or any SPORT for that matter don't owe anything to fans. If it wasn't for fans all of these athletes would be playing basketball and making as much as professional lacrosse players. Literally their whole world as they know it is due to fans supporting them.

So by that logic, no actor can ever leave a show you like, or refuse to sign up for a sequel?

I'd say their world as they know it is due to years and years of work and sacrifice and talent. Be the top 1% of the top 1% of anything (as most pro athletes are) and you'll be successful.

Don’t Sweat Kevin Durant’s Departure. You’re Doing Fine, Oklahoma City!

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/07/05/oklahoma_city_s_economic_development_will_continue _after_kevin_durant_s.html

So by that logic, no actor can ever leave a show you like, or refuse to sign up for a sequel?

I'd say their world as they know it is due to years and years of work and sacrifice and talent. Be the top 1% of the top 1% of anything (as most pro athletes are) and you'll be successful.

I didn't say that they couldn't leave did I?

I didn't say that they couldn't leave did I?

The concept of "owing" the fans would seem to imply that obligation.

Reggie Miller, who he himself stayed 18 years in Indianapolis, rips Durant for his decision:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2650244-reggie-miller-kevin-durant-traded-a-sacred-legacy-for-cheap-jewelry

I mostly meant the thought that athletes don't have to answer to or shouldn't have to have their decisions judged by fans because they owe them nothing. I'm assuming you don't agree with that?

Reggie Miller, who he himself stayed 18 years in Indianapolis, rips Durant for his decision:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2650244-reggie-miller-kevin-durant-traded-a-sacred-legacy-for-cheap-jewelry

I do miss the day when you could associate athletes with their teams, but I wonder if this is more nostalgia than the rule. Sure, there are your Cal Ripken Jrs, John Elways, Kobe Bryant, even MJ (despite the two seasons with the Wizards), but don't the majority of professional athletes play for multiple teams over their career? 9 years is a fairly good length with a single franchise.

I mostly meant the thought that athletes don't have to answer to or shouldn't have to have their decisions judged by fans because they owe them nothing. I'm assuming you don't agree with that?

Oh, I think they can be judged. But I don't think they owe the fans anything, any more than the fans owe them their loyalty. How long would fans be loyal and supportive to an athlete who had an off year. How many bandwagon fans are there for every team?

Fans were pretty loyal to Perk and still to Collison even though they contribute very little to the on court product....

Fans were pretty loyal to Perk and still to Collison even though they contribute very little to the on court product....

I think that's easy when the team is doing well. We'll see how that works after a couple of losing seasons.

Ripping the decision on a basketball level (e.g., weak) makes sense, but not a personal one (e.g., selfish allegations, liar).

Ripping the decision on a basketball level (e.g., weak) makes sense, but not a personal one (e.g., selfish allegations, liar).

Generally agree but Durant did go out of his way to cultivate this image of humility and loyalty, which was a big part of his appeal.


For me, I feel his decision was: 1) extremely weak, says a lot about his lack of competitiveness which is perhaps the most important of all athletic traits and thus greatly devalues him; and 2) a revelation that he wasn't the person we thought/hoped he was and that not only ruins the future but somewhat sullies his past in OKC.

It's kind of like not only getting dumped by someone you loved very much, but then realizing maybe they never really loved you at all -- that your years-long relationship was really a lie to some degree.

Because lets face it, it wasn't just winning games and scoring points that endeared him so much to OKC; and in a way very different than any other players, including Westbrook.

But Dan, isn't the definition of selfish: lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure. How does that not apply here? That is exactly what motivated him. His own personal ambition. Which is fine for him. But that is the exact definition of being selfish.

It's kind of like not only getting dumped by someone you loved very much, but then realizing maybe they never really loved you at all -- that your years-long relationship was really a lie to some degree.

Man, that sums up my thoughts very well.

Answer this question: Why was Durant so much more beloved than Westbrook or any other Thunder player?

Yes, he was very good but so is Russ.

KD also completely failed the team on more than one super critical situation and yet there was very little backlash or criticism.

He was beloved because of who we liked to think he was: Humble, cool, genuine, a true lover of our community, fans and team. The anti-superstar in many ways. He was often the face of the entire city and almost everybody loved that. We loved him precisely because he loved us back.

It's not just about basketball and winning because people adored him even in years where we weren't competing for it all. So to insist that fans only view this through a basketball lens misses the entire reason that so many are truly and deeply upset. It feels very personal.

But Dan, isn't the definition of selfish: lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure. How does that not apply here? That is exactly what motivated him. His own personal ambition. Which is fine for him. But that is the exact definition of being selfish.

Wait, choosing the job situation you prefer is selfish? And, it's not like he is making more money for endorsements from the deal. This actually had very little to do with monetary gain. You could certainly argue that he is making way more sacrifices on the court by going to the Warriors where he won't be the man.

I do agree with Barkley's analysis, that Durant is chasing a championship the easy way, and it won't mean as much as if he had lead an OKC team to a championship.

Yes. How could it be labeled anything else? It is looking out for your own self interest.

betts posted this on facebook and this will probably be my last post on the subject. http://www.complex.com/sports/2016/07/kevin-durant-narrative-belongs-to-fans

Ripping the decision on a basketball level (e.g., weak) makes sense, but not a personal one (e.g., selfish allegations, liar).

dank, I normally agree with you in these Thunder discussions throughout the seasons, but your lack of criticism is bewildering me. You know as much as I do, what KD has done to the franchise that built a team around and for him. Discounting the destruction of this organization (which hopefully is temporary) because KD is a "good guy" is lame at best.

KD has gone against everything he has ever stated. Literally the definition of lying. And going to the Warriors specifically to nearly guarantee a ring, how is that not selfish?

I am almost more frustrated with the fans trying to weirdly defend KD's decision than I am the actual decision. Have you people no spine? This man has legitimately pulled the rug out from Presti - who has been nothing short of honorable to KD.

KD had the key to this city, and he threw it into the Bay.

Yes. How could it be labeled anything else? It is looking out for your own self interest.

You don't?

I do agree with Barkley's analysis, that Durant is chasing a championship the easy way, and it won't mean as much as if he had lead an OKC team to a championship.

I totally agree with this. No doubt KD took the easy road.

Yes. I do. Which I said in my earlier post is fine. But it is still selfish and can be labeled that. You can't complain about being called selfish when you're being selfish.

dank, I normally agree with you in these Thunder discussions throughout the seasons, but your lack of criticism is bewildering me. You know as much as I do, what KD has done to the franchise that built a team around and for him. Discounting the destruction of this organization (which hopefully is temporary) because KD is a "good guy" is lame at best.

KD has gone against everything he has ever stated. Literally the definition of lying. And going to the Warriors specifically to nearly guarantee a ring, how is that not selfish?

I am almost more frustrated with the fans trying to weirdly defend KD's decision than I am the actual decision. Have you people no spine? This man has legitimately pulled the rug out from Presti - who has been nothing short of honorable to KD.

KD had the key to this city, and he threw it into the Bay.

To clarify, I didn't defend KD's decision. It was a very weak move basketball-wise. He shied away from leading his team.

However, I disagree that he lied. Did everyone want KD to say he hates the city and organization even if he was contemplating leaving? I think there's a lot of naïveté here. I think everything broke the wrong way and KD made a weak decision. However, if you've been paying close attention, KD's been sending mixed signals for a long time. He never said he was playing in OKC for life. He did indicate he was building something and he did that for 9 years. I think his decision was weak, but not dishonest. He still did so much for OKC...

And up until a couple days ago there was a consensus that he was a great guy and the greatest ambassador in OKC history. He chooses to leave and everyone -- with limited information -- has flipped 100%.

I just think the liar or selfish arguments hold water personally:,

I hate to see him leave but he did. I am not going to burn jerseys or post a entitled video of me placing a for sale sign in his front yard. He did what he thought was best for him. Selfish? easy road to championship? sure but those are his rights. When its all over it wont matter what route he took to a championship it will just be part of his stats. It's all a business and as much as we would love for him to stay or believed he would he was always very careful about those questions. as disappointed as I was by the news I am more so with the reactions from people and how low class those have become. The video of the GM of Pink Parrot was just gross and entitled and makes me not want to give them my business ever again.

He never said he was playing in OKC for life.

Wrong. He absolutely strung this city on even up until the end. http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12596449/kevin-durant-says-love-stick-oklahoma-city-thunder-whole-career

For someone who follows the NBA and Thunder very closely, you're leaving out a lot of the truth. Whether that is on purpose, I don't know.

^And that is not the only time he said something resembling that sentiment.

I hate to see him leave but he did. I am not going to burn jerseys or post a entitled video of me placing a for sale sign in his front yard. He did what he thought was best for him. Selfish? easy road to championship? sure but those are his rights. When its all over it wont matter what route he took to a championship it will just be part of his stats. It's all a business and as much as we would love for him to stay or believed he would he was always very careful about those questions. as disappointed as I was by the news I am more so with the reactions from people and how low class those have become. The video of the GM of Pink Parrot was just gross and entitled and makes me not want to give them my business ever again.

My thoughts exactly. I'm damn disappointed that KD decided to leave, and I totally understand why some people would be even angry about it - but in my opinion, stuff like the jersey burning and the Pink Parrot guy placing that modified For Sale sign is just childish. I certainly won't be setting foot in the Pink Parrot after that.

It will be interesting to see how OKC fans regard KD after the dust settles and the raw emotions have passed.

My guess is that most will be secretly hoping he never gets that ring, while not openly cheering against him.

And there will always be some that will just hate the guy and never let it go.

Wrong. He absolutely strung this city on even up until the end. http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12596449/kevin-durant-says-love-stick-oklahoma-city-thunder-whole-career

For someone who follows the NBA and Thunder very closely, you're leaving out a lot of the truth. Whether that is on purpose, I don't know.

First, that story is from 15 months ago. Things shift and that's been in the norm in sports stories like this. And even in that story KD said, "But you never know what the future holds..." I think KD would have liked to have his jersey retired here. And if we'd won the title or 10 other things happened then I think he'd have stayed. I don't think he left OKC as much as he went to GSW. Its not like we were out of consideration and he wanted to get out... But he chose somewhere else. It's weak, but I disagree with your interpretation of things.

Anyway, we're going in circles so I'll leave the KD stuff at that.

The Westbrook conundrum is up next...

Thunder fans will make that adjustment; then move on.

It's like meeting a beautiful women you like, you tell her all the things you think she might want to here. All the things to lure her into your web. Was that the case with Kevin Durant?

Just so confused since this announcement was made; however it wasn't like I didn't see this coming.

After awakening one morning from a bad dream in which K. D. announced that he was leaving OKC; my vibes, told me that Kevin Durant was GONE!

The problem is the timing with all of this. With the cap going up significantly next year Russell really has no incentive to sign an extension with us this year. On the flip side, what team would want to give up significant players / future draft picks with no guarantee that he will stay past the 2016/2017 season?

Hopefully we can pitch to him that this is his team now and that will be enough for him to stay.

IMO, there is nothing that will make him extend or say either way whether he is leaving or not and you can't risk waiting to see. You can't compete for a title anyway this year. I say you try and get something for him while you can.

IMO, there is nothing that will make him extend or say either way whether he is leaving or not and you can't risk waiting to see. You can't compete for a title anyway this year. I say you try and get something for him while you can.

Sad to say, agree completely. KD ruined us, no matter how you slice it.

When the time comes for Russell Westbrook's contract to be addressed, the Thunder will make that assessment. If he decides to leave, it will FREE up that much CAP space for us to plan our future.

Who knows, Blake Griffin may be ready to return home.

Anyway, we're going in circles so I'll leave the KD stuff at that.

The Westbrook conundrum is up next...

Just have to hope that the allure of saving OKC from the result of KD's actions and being the leader of the franchise means something to him. Presti has a pretty good pitch on building around him and has a very good supporting cast to start the process with. If Westbrook hangs around and brings us back to a championship or near championship level after this, he would be nothing short of a legend here. Hopefully he cares more about his legacy than Durant did.

First, that story is from 15 months ago. Things shift and that's been in the norm in sports stories like this. And even in that story KD said, "But you never know what the future holds..." I think KD would have liked to have his jersey retired here. And if we'd won the title or 10 other things happened then I think he'd have stayed. I don't think he left OKC as much as he went to GSW. Its not like we were out of consideration and he wanted to get out... But he chose somewhere else. It's weak, but I disagree with your interpretation of things.

Doesn't matter if it was 15 months ago. He still lied to us. He told us that he wanted to stay here for his career and get his jersey retired here. Shouldn't have made those statements if he didn't mean them. He's a quitter, plain and simple. Couldn't take the heat of losing to GSW, so he quit and joined the enemy. Pretty low. I have no respect for the thug.

Just have to hope that the allure of saving OKC from the result of KD's actions and being the leader of the franchise means something to him. Presti has a pretty good pitch on building around him and has a very good supporting cast to start the process with. If Westbrook hangs around and brings us back to a championship or near championship level after this, he would be nothing short of a legend here. Hopefully he cares more about his legacy than Durant did.

Doubt it. He's made it pretty clear that his heart is in LA.

I just had a thought, which I know will never happen, but would be very cool if it did: There are people here (in OKC, not necessarily on this board) who recognize what KD did for the city while he was here and are sad to see him go, but don't hate him. There are people here who absolutely hate KD and wish nothing but the worst for him. I am neither; I nothing him now.

So, what if the first game he played back in OKC as a Warrior, when his name and number were announced, there were no boos, there were no cheers, there was nothing, nothing but silence.

Dead. F$%king. Silence...

Again, just a thought...

It will be interesting to see how OKC fans regard KD after the dust settles and the raw emotions have passed.

My guess is that most will be secretly hoping he never gets that ring, while not openly cheering against him.

And there will always be some that will just hate the guy and never let it go.

I hope he doesn't get the ring, at least not with GS, and I will certainly never cheer for him unless he's playing for the USA team. I root for the laundry, and now he's one of the bad guys.

It will also be interesting to see how he handles being with an organization that doesn't shield him nearly as much as the Thunder did, and a media base that doesn't handle him with kid gloves, like ours did. Wouldn't surprise me if he had a rough year next season.

I grew up a Dallas fan and support them still as my number 1 team but I view the Thunder as a close 2nd. Where Durant is right now is extremely similar to where Dirk was.

Dirk came close for years but there was always a Spurs, Lakers, Miami, or Sacramento team that was just a little better. Nash left the team and became a multi-MVP winner. They put together one of the best regular seasons (currently 7th all time) and went out in the first round. It seemed like they'd never get there.

Dirk took a lot of blame for the failures, mostly from the national media. He was too soft, a poor defender, choked when it was on the line, etc. He was still loved in Dallas but the occasional statements I would hear about Durant reminded me of the things I used to hear about Dirk.

Dirk stuck with the team and kept trying to go at it. The Spurs owned the decade he was in his prime much like Golden State is on their way to owning this one. When 2011 happened it was like he was on a mission. When he hoisted the trophy all the criticism was gone. His status in Dallas is now up there with some of the greatest Cowboy players which says a lot.

Based on the stories around town, Dirk was the happiest person in the room at every bar he showed up in after the win. His path was extremely difficult but it all became worth it. I guarantee the satisfaction he got from finally winning it was greater than anything Durant will experience in Golden State, even if he wins several. Durant threw something away with this choice and as a sports fan that's disappointing to see.

You either die Dirk or live long enough to see yourself become Karl Malone

It will be interesting to see how OKC fans regard KD after the dust settles and the raw emotions have passed.

My guess is that most will be secretly hoping he never gets that ring, while not openly cheering against him.

And there will always be some that will just hate the guy and never let it go.

Put me down for hope he never gets a ring and openly cheering against him. On the bright side, it's not like we can win less championships with KD gone.

We need to petition Presti to let us trade our KD jerseys (non-burned) in for Adams.

Doubt it. He's made it pretty clear that his heart is in LA.

Really? Outside of media conjecture, where/when has he himself made that clear?

^That's what I've always wondered. Everyone is sure that he doesn't want to be here. I just think it will be tough to take a chance on he coming back considering the situation KD put us in, but I've never understood why everyone thinks Russ wants LA.

Heh -

https://thekicker.com/durant-tries-to-sign-with-1992-olympic-dream-team/

^That's what I've always wondered. Everyone is sure that he doesn't want to be here. I just think it will be tough to take a chance on he coming back considering the situation KD put us in, but I've never understood why everyone thinks Russ wants LA.

Same here. Everyone just assumes that because he wasn't ever as outspoken about OKC as KD was, but he isn't really outspoken about anything with the media. Anytime he's been asked, he's said he likes it hear.

The best thing the Thunder could do is tear up the contract of RW and instead offer him the max on a 2 year with an option year for the second. He would still be a free agent at the end of next year but it would show RW that the franchise is willing to give him a "good faith" amount of money. Sometimes you just need to make a high risk investment if there is a high potential reward.

You can't tear up contracts in the NBA.

Either Russ shows a willingness to sign a long term max or the team has to look for a deal. Unfortunately, the Thunder can only get a lot if Russ shows a willingness to sign with that team... The Thunder might or might not have a lot of leverage in a possible deal. Not a great position.

The best thing the Thunder could do is tear up the contract of RW and instead offer him the max on a 2 year with an option year for the second. He would still be a free agent at the end of next year but it would show RW that the franchise is willing to give him a "good faith" amount of money. Sometimes you just need to make a high risk investment if there is a high potential reward.

Agree, what have the Thunder got to lose.


According to The Vertical's Adrian Wojnarowski, Miami "deeply angered" its superstar by making him an initial offer with a $10 million annual value. (Austin Rivers will make more for the Los Angeles Clippers, per ESPN.com.) Despite Miami doubling the offer to two years and $40 million, per the Sun Sentinel's Ira Winderman, Wade still wants more.

NBA Free Agents 2016: Rumors and Predictions for Remaining Available Talent: http://http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2650201-nba-free-agents-2016-rumors-and-predictions-for-remaining-available-talent

You can't tear up contracts in the NBA.

Not true, Dan. The Thunder have cap space now that KD is gone.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61
A contract for four or more seasons can be renegotiated after the third anniversary of its signing, extension, or previous renegotiation (if the previous negotiation increased any season's salary by more than 4.5%). Contracts for fewer than four seasons cannot be renegotiated. A contract cannot be renegotiated between March 1 and June 30 of any year.

Only teams under the cap can renegotiate a contract, and the salary in the then-current season can be increased only to the extent that the team has room under the cap (and cannot increase the player's salary beyond the maximum salary). A renegotiation can only be used to provide a salary increase -- players can't take a "pay cut" in order to create more cap room for the team.

If the player agrees to waive a portion of his trade bonus in order to facilitate a trade (see question number 99), his contract may not be renegotiated for six months following the trade.

Every category of compensation (base salary, likely bonuses, and unlikely bonuses) that are increased in the renegotiated season must also increase in all subsequent seasons of the contract. Raises (and decreases) in subsequent seasons are limited to 7.5% of the salary in the first renegotiated season.

A renegotiated contract can be extended simultaneously (see question number 60). If a player's contract is extended and renegotiated simultaneously in this manner, his salary may not decrease by more than 40% from the last season before the extension (after it is renegotiated) to the first season of the extension. For example, if the salary in the last season of a contract is renegotiated to $10 million and the contract is simultaneously extended, the salary in the first season of the extension cannot be less than $6 million.

Other rules for renegotiations:

A signing bonus cannot accompany a renegotiation unless the contract is extended simultaneously (see question number 60).
A rookie scale contract (see question number 49) cannot be renegotiated.
A contract cannot be renegotiated in conjunction with a trade.

Thanks for the info... How often has it happened? I can't remember any examples...

(There's no way Russ will do this)

Thanks for the info... How often has it happened? I can't remember any examples...

(There's no way Russ will do this)
Totally irrelevant to how often it has happened before. How many times has a team had two of the top 5 players the game looking at free agency in successive years and losing one of those players in the first year? The current CBA went into play in 2011 I believe, so you are talking a very unique situation.
Russ would lose nothing in my proposal as he would still be a free agent at the end of 2017 year, but would have earned more money and possibly the Thunder would earn more respect. Why in the world would he not agree?

I have no respect for the thug.

Lol, probably the first time in history that someone has called him that