I'm pretty late to the party in regards to posting this, as I've been meaning to for several months...and it continues to be a it issue. But I now have a question to all the "Know it Alls" that live on OKCtalk, in regards to this newest agreement by the City Council that was just announced today. (As of about 2:00 PM.)

Back Story- The intersection in question NW 178th and Meridian Ave, in far NWOKC. (Deer Creek School District.) Over the past 15 years or so, there have been countless serious accidents at the intersection, as only the North/South bound traffic has stop signs. the East wet bound traffic on 178th, does not have to stop, and as such traffic typically flows thru the intersection at 65+ mph. More times than not, someone traveling North or Southbound stops at the stop sign, without realizing that the East/Westbound traffic DOES NOT stop. Obviously, creating a serious issue very quickly.

Within the last 5-7 years, traffic in this area has EXPLODED due to the infill of new construction in the West Edmond/NWOKC/DeerCreek area. (Estimated 300% increase in single family homes.)

So, obviously, in this same time frame, the traffic at that intersection has increased 10 fold, over that same time frame. The number of serious accidents has also increased mirroring, the traffic influx. the residents of the surrounding areas have signed petitions, called/written their city council persons, have asked Sheriffs to patrol the intersection, and all have fallen upon deaf ears. These are not your typical fender bender accidents,. we are talking about highs opened t bone impacts, with serious injuries, sometimes requiring medi-flight from the area. There is also a Deer Creek student, that was involved in an accident there, that has been in the hospital since August of 15' still trying to walk/talk for the first time. so, it is a well known issue, that everyone that lives near by, has tried to have the city put up additional stop signs, and/or traffic lights. This is a high traffic area, with 3 schools immediately north of the intersection, with a good majority of the traffic being children. So, it has been on the radar for quite some time.

Last week, there was another high speed collision/rollover at the intersection, and finally after voicing the concerns...news channel 4, as well as News channel 9 ran stories on this issue, and had learned that the City Council denied any changes, because it would impede the flow of traffic too much. But they did agree to install two NEW LARGE stop signs, and yellow flashing lights to the intersection.

The very next morning.... (Yesterday) there was once again, another serious collision. Even after these signs were installed. It once again, has created issues amongst the local residents vs. city council leaders that have continued to not make any changes to the area. Either way, there has been 3 serious accidents there, just in the last 30 days, and everyone involved is very upset that nothing is being done. That is, until just this afternoon....whne an emergency meeting was held, and they have come up with a new plan. This emergency plan is actually being put into action immediately, and they are making a transaction, to purchase an additional 17 sq ft of land on each of the 4 corners, to create a "No STOP....Round a Bout." The plans are just now being released, as was discussed today at 1:00, SO I am not sure how the design will layout. So, can someone explain to me, how a "No Stop round about" works? Specifically on a road, that typically flows at 60-70 mph? My concern is the fact that most of these accidents were caused by drivers not paying attention, and not understanding the rules of the road. I am not confident in this "Round a Bout," solution, because I don't believ that the majority of the drivers on the road today would even know how to execute a "round a bout." (Nevermind the fact that it is going to be $175,000+ for this construction, vs. $950 for two new stop signs to be installed.)

I am very interested in this, as my wife drives this route, and is at this intersection every morning, with my children. I am so happy to see something being done, as it has been heart wrenching over the years being outside and hearing such a sound...just knowing that someone else has just been in an accident there at that intersection. (Usually followed by the sound of medi flight over head.) But in my feeble little mind, I would have to think that adding stop signs on the East/West bound lanes, would have been both more effective from a cost and safety standpoint.


Article from last week-
Parents fear dangerous intersection on the way to school | KFOR.com (http://kfor.com/2016/03/22/parents-fear-dangerous-intersection-on-the-way-to-school/)

Channel 4 Facebook Post from today-
https://www.facebook.com/kforalimeyer/videos/1037404889659205/

A round-a-bout is kind of surprising. Seems like it came out of nowhere.

I would reckon they would post signage along with installing the round-a-bout. If people aren't going to pay attention, people won't pay attention. You can't force them to do that. Hopefully this will reduce the amount of accidents at this intersection.

From what I understand, putting stop signs up, since it's not in a signalized area there, and there is a significant difference in traffic flow between the two roads, that it would require a traffic engineering study (by federal law), and justification (which one would think the accidents would provide). There are also some fairly strict criteria for putting up a 4 way stop sign, such as XX cars per hour on average, XX number of accidents in 12 months, etc.

I'm sure someone more knowledgable can confirm or deny that though.

From what I understand, putting stop signs up, since it's not in a signalized area there, and there is a significant difference in traffic flow between the two roads, that it would require a traffic engineering study (by federal law), and justification (which one would think the accidents would provide).

I'm sure someone more knowledgable can confirm or deny that though.

It is VERY interesting, that you brought this up...as its one of the more controversial aspects this this entire debate. This increased traffic flow is created by the ever increasing size of the Deer Creek school district. (There is no debating that.) On any given morning, this intersection going North/South bound is bumper to bumper 20-30 cars deep. Often times backed up 1/2 a mile or more. People get frustrated, and I would guess try to jet out across the intersection, often times misjudging the East/West traffic. (And other times...just pull out, assuming the East/West bound traffic does have to stop.)


Here's where it gets weird..... Both of these "emergency" ODOT/City Traffic ETC... surveys were conducted on a Wednesday morning. And this was one of the major factors brought up this morning, in the city council meeting. The Deer Creek district has what they call..."Late start Wednesdays." As in, the students don't have to go to school until 9 AM. So on both occasions that they conducted this "emergency" survey, there were virtually NO CARS traveling North/South bound at all, because both observations were on a Wednesday morning, between 6 AM to 8AM.) However, if it would have been any other day of the week, there would have been 200-300 vehicles moving thru the intersection in that same 2 hour window of time.

So, on both occasions, after years and years of bitching an moaning, the city did come out to conduct a visual survey..and on both occasions, they could not have picked a day that was more inconsistent with normal traffic patterns of the intersection. ( I am guessing with this newest announcement, that now they will install some trip wires/sensors here shortly, to get a more accurate feel from traffic flow.)

And just to clarify on your xxx number of accidents, should = resolution...that's exactly what happened. this last accident, is the one that finally put everything into motion.

Isn't MacArthur and 178th, as well as Portland at 178th, a four way stop?

Isn't MacArthur and 178th, as well as Portland at 178th, a four way stop?

Yes. Macarthur is a 4 way. And Portland is a full functioning light.

That's really the issue. This intersection is the ONLY one within a 6 mile radius, that ISN'T a 4 way. so, even though, the blame should technically be on the drivers for not paying attention..I can also see how someone not familiar with the area, would/could just assume that it is a 4 way. Early in the morning..you cant see ANYTHING to the East due to the Sun. Likewise, for looking West in the evening.

Yeah, that's why I asked. I could see resistance to making this a 4 way if this was a long stretch of road without intersections (such as lengths of Portland are), but I don't see why not for this intersection.

So, can someone explain to me, how a "No Stop round about" works? Specifically on a road, that typically flows at 60-70 mph? Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Do some lookup of the Oklahoman's archives from the mid-1950s for articles about "Classen Circle" which was just such an effort, connecting NW Highway, NW 50, Classen Blvd, and what now is an exit road from the northeast leg of I44 but at the time was a ground-level highway similar to NW Highway.

After its completion, it rapidly became the city's deadliest accident location, and eventually was ripped out and replaced by the four-way lights now there (with NW 50 blocked off from the intersection entirely).

Even though I avoid roundabouts like the plague (like the two that bracket St.Anthony hospital on 10th St), I agree with the decision to create one for the dangerous intersection.

If they think there are a lot of wrecks there now, just wait till a traffic circle is installed.

I like roundabouts. It's certainly weird to see one put out in a rural setting like this. However, while not perfect, it should be an improvement. At the least, it should decrease the severity of accidents since signage-wise it will basically be a four way yield, and traffic will be entering the intersection at an angle.