This development is gonna have to cost billions of dollars to ensure its done right. It's not cheap and I don't think the current people have the resources to do it right and well. By now they would have came up with a solid plan for the entire district. It's all up in the air and conceptual because it's too big of a project for them. I remember when this project came out they posted pictures on their Instagram about biking and walkability. They posted images of European styled streets, a focus on human scale. Now this project doesn't even know what it is anymore. Talk about identify crisis lol. This whole thing is a flop. I hope they fix the old buildings they said they would fix but at this rate who knows.

IMO this area needs to put some decent mass on the park frontage lots and then make the rest a dense residential neighborhood with some small retail thrown in throughout. It would allow them to build and sell as they go and they wouldn't need so much up front capital to get the project moving. Plus, I would imagine an area focused on human scale, gentle density with such easy access to every amenity in the core would pretty much sell itself.

IMO this area needs to put some decent mass on the park frontage lots and then make the rest a dense residential neighborhood with some small retail thrown in throughout. It would allow them to build and sell as they go and they wouldn't need so much up front capital to get the project moving. Plus, I would imagine an area focused on human scale, gentle density with such easy access to every amenity in the core would pretty much sell itself.
Agreed. That is how real urban fabrics work. It wouldn't hurt to try and run a streetcar through here. Need a couple two way protected cycleways as well. They also should convert SW 4th St. to ban cars and either make it a pedestrian paseo or bus/delivery trucks only. Extend a pedestrian walkway through the large vacant land to the west and curve it up to connect the Farmers Market district.

I haven't looked into this extensively, but I don't think the intention was ever to build it all out at once. They will probably find a few foundational tenants and build out a few lots with them, and then go from there. The early renderings of huge multi-story, multi-use city blocks was probably too bullish for an area that is currently mostly empty. Getting one spec office tower off the ground would be a challenge considering how much empty space is currently available in the area, not to mention the multitude of buildings this development plan shows.

They just need to get started with some of the residential lots. Easier to fund and a great way to kickstart an area.

As of yesterday, still no movement at all on this project.


Work to start on first project in Strawberry Fields (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=744-Work-to-start-on-first-project-in-Strawberry-Fields)

Design plans have been submitted for the first project in the massive Strawberry Fields development just to the west of Scissortail Park in downtown Oklahoma City.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/716sw3rd5.jpg

A local investment group has systematically acquired nearly 300 lots near the new park and is planning a large mixed-use development.

Plans show the intent to renovate two historic brick buildings at 716 and 726 SW 3rd; a small structure between the two would be demolished to create a plaza. New space would be created for a bar, restaurant and other commercial uses.

MA+ Architecture is performing the design work.


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City is set to award the Strawberry Fields owners $16 million in TIF money for "underground infrastructure".

This is all sorts of yuck.

Awesome! Does that mean burring powerlines and water/sewage construction? Once awarded will we see activity on that property?

City is set to award the Strawberry Fields owners $16 million in TIF money for "underground infrastructure".

What a joke. Overpay for land, show fancy renderings but have no real viable plan, beg the city for money to just get something going.

City is set to award the Strawberry Fields owners $16 million in TIF money for "underground infrastructure".
They’re going to need way more than 16 million to make it work. I figure the streets alone would be 100+ million. Hopefully the bury the utility lines.

^

I'm sure this will not be the last ask.

They'll probably ask for TIF for every new building they plan.

Weird to see TIF money spent on a project that up until now and into at least the near term future has been real estate vaporware.

^

I'm sure this will not be the last ask.

They'll probably ask for TIF for every new building they plan.
So all I gotta do is come up with some fancy renderings and boom I’m paid millions in TIF money? I’m in the wrong industry lol.

I jest but hopefully this kicks start this thing.

City is set to award the Strawberry Fields owners $16 million in TIF money for "underground infrastructure".

Is this water and sewer, or electrical?

Is this water and sewer, or electrical?

The TIF resolution does not provide any further details other than the approximate boundaries (OKC Boulevard, SW 7th, Hudson and Shartel).

^

I'm sure this will not be the last ask.

They'll probably ask for TIF for every new building they plan.

TIF will be given before or after the construction? If it's after, nothing to worry about.

TIF will be given before or after the construction? If it's after, nothing to worry about.

This whole area has been pretty shady from the get go and so, while I hope it works out and I certainly think it could, I also don't know that allocating large chunks of TIF here, much of which will need to be borrowed from other funds and potentially create interest for the city, is really unappetizing with the group that has overseen this area.

Not going to argue TIF as it has been hashed out in great detail in other threads.

I think the reason for SF being a dud so far is that there’s not enough market demand for the products they have available. The Lucy is about 30K +/- of additional Class A office space in an office market that already has significant vacancies. It was listed by a reputable local broker to no avail. The US supply building was listed for lease or sale, again with no takers. A huge reputable firm listed a large tract for SF that wasn’t purchased (likely due to the huge amount of land listed in the immediate area by other owners). In general I don’t think what’s going on here is sketchy but rather is being driven by market forces. BUT, I would like some more answers on the TIF and why plans haven’t been filed for the former goodwill site. I have a feeling we may have some answers to the latter sooner than later.

^^
Build a top notch high school or magnet school in downtown and people will come.

Not going to argue TIF as it has been hashed out in great detail in other threads.

I think the reason for SF being a dud so far is that there’s not enough market demand for the products they have available. The Lucy is about 30K +/- of additional Class A office space in an office market that already has significant vacancies. It was listed by a reputable local broker to no avail. The US supply building was listed for lease or sale, again with no takers. A huge reputable firm listed a large tract for SF that wasn’t purchased (likely due to the huge amount of land listed in the immediate area by other owners). In general I don’t think what’s going on here is sketchy but rather is being driven by market forces. BUT, I would like some more answers on the TIF and why plans haven’t been filed for the former goodwill site. I have a feeling we may have some answers to the latter sooner than later.

Just to be sure, when I said "shady" what I meant to convey was not that anything is nefarious, just that they have absolutely nothing to show for what they've put out there and we're many years into this. Now you're asking for $16M in TIF and no one has evidence or a track record that this will come together in any way shape or form.

Just to be sure, when I said "shady" what I meant to convey was not that anything is nefarious, just that they have absolutely nothing to show for what they've put out there and we're many years into this. Now you're asking for $16M in TIF and no one has evidence or a track record that this will come together in any way shape or form.

Got it, sorry for the misunderstanding! I think you bring up a valid point for sure.

Just to be sure, when I said "shady" what I meant to convey was not that anything is nefarious, just that they have absolutely nothing to show for what they've put out there and we're many years into this. Now you're asking for $16M in TIF and no one has evidence or a track record that this will come together in any way shape or form.

I know this is stating the obvious but they need more population to make their other projects work. They need large residential apartments. There is market demand for apartments. SF want to build units that don't have demand in a post COVID era.

Heard from a reliable source that two buildings are under design review with the city and a large apartment complex is planned. If this has been stated previously, my apologies.

https://okcfox.com/news/local/new-apartments-restaurants-coming-to-sw-okc-scissortail-park-affordable-housing-coalign-groupcathy-oconnor-founder-strawberry-fields-oklahoma-city-boulevard-okc-mayor-david-holt-gov-governor-kevin-stitt?fbclid=IwAR2Om13UOlywEsbLrIPAF6a83TKO6SsPKDu mKU8r59DN-G2yGDkLsI6_npw

https://okcfox.com/news/local/new-apartments-restaurants-coming-to-sw-okc-scissortail-park-affordable-housing-coalign-groupcathy-oconnor-founder-strawberry-fields-oklahoma-city-boulevard-okc-mayor-david-holt-gov-governor-kevin-stitt?fbclid=IwAR2Om13UOlywEsbLrIPAF6a83TKO6SsPKDu mKU8r59DN-G2yGDkLsI6_npw

I saw this. Not sure we should get excited though. So far Strawberry Fields has been vaporware.

I saw this. Not sure we should get excited though. So far Strawberry Fields has been vaporware.

Really wish those tracts would become vested in a legitimate developer with deep f’ing pockets

Really wish those tracts would become vested in a legitimate developer with deep f’ing pockets

There are none in OKC. And very few want to work in OKC, for some reason.

There are none in OKC. And very few want to work in OKC, for some reason.

We've had literally billions in private development in the recent past.

News Flash: Lackmeyer Doing Some Actual Reporting


https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2023/02/08/oklahoma-city-strawberry-fields-developer-to-fight-allegations-by-minority-investors/69884937007/

Yeah, that lawsuit was filed yesterday.

According to the Oklahoman, the group of 20+ investors collectively only own 6.4%.

Salame told the Oklahoman she has been providing the periodic reports.

Here is the entire filing:

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Is that the same Houston Nutt who played college football for the OSU cowboys?

Is that the same Houston Nutt who played college football for the OSU cowboys?

Yes. He was the head coach at Arkansas and Ole Miss but has been out of coaching since the Rebels fired him in 2011.

And four others are his children. The rest are nephews and nieces and a sister-in-law.

Is there a brief summary for those of us who are too lazy/buzzed to read all of those documents? I don’t click on any DOK links.

Is there a brief summary for those of us who are too lazy/buzzed to read all of those documents? I don’t click on any DOK links.

The crux is that about 23 investors are suing the managing partner (Pat Salame) for allegedly not providing periodic financial updates. They want her to be forced out of her position as group CEO.

Salame told the Oklahoman she has been providing the reports and quoted the largest investor (not part of the lawsuit) as saying he has been receiving the reports and has total confidence in Salame. He went on to say they are close to starting on several projects.

The article also talks about Cathy O'Connor's role in helping the group secure $16 million in TIF for infrastructure, which still requires the final approval of city council.


Cutting through all this, my hunch is that many of the investors are frustrated by the lack of progress on this project, as we all are.

I'll be following the case closely.

Remember when Strawberry Fields failed to pay their property taxes in 2019 and had liens placed on 93 of their 97 properties?

They ended up paying the back taxes about a year later.

They have yet to pay the same taxes for 2022. You are allowed to split the yearly submission in half, with payments paid in December and March. But to date, SF has not paid anything to the county for any of those same properties. Not a huge deal because they usually give you time before issuing liens, but after getting caught up they had been paying on time until this past year.

I've been told that SF wants to change the TIF agreement. The original deal was for SF to install infrastructure and then be reimbursed through TIF funds, now SF wants the $16 million up front.

This whole deal sounds like a money grab from the city with nothing to show for it

Not that it matters, but Cathy Nutt was married to the very-unfortunately-named Dickey Nutt, who is Houston Nutt's brother and an assistant coach for the University of Missouri men's basketball team. Logan and Lexis are their children. So, in a NUTTshell (see what I did there? lol), the majority of the actual plaintiffs are related by blood or marriage.

This, the fact they own less than 7% of the LLC, and that the overwhelming majority of other investors appear to be happy lead me to believe this group simply wants out of their investments in Strawberry Fields, either for liquidity purposes or because it is generating no profits at this time. I was offered ownership in this group years ago but declined because there is literally ZERO payback on the investment shares until property is sold for a profit, developed, or becomes income-generating in some way. I believed in 2014 that this project was at least 10 years away, and that is exactly what has transpired.

I'm not saying this isn't a good investment, just that you hand over your money for a minority interest and have little say in future developments. It just wasn't my cup of tea.

Not that it matters, but Cathy Nutt was married to the very-unfortunately-named Dickey Nutt, who is Houston Nutt's brother and an assistant coach for the University of Missouri men's basketball team. Logan and Lexis are their children. So, in a NUTTshell (see what I did there? lol), the majority of the actual plaintiffs are related by blood or marriage.

This, the fact they own less than 7% of the LLC, and that the overwhelming majority of other investors appear to be happy lead me to believe this group simply wants out of their investments in Strawberry Fields, either for liquidity purposes or because it is generating no profits at this time. I was offered ownership in this group years ago but declined because there is literally ZERO payback on the investment shares until property is sold for a profit, developed, or becomes income-generating in some way. I believed in 2014 that this project was at least 10 years away, and that is exactly what has transpired.

I'm not saying this isn't a good investment, just that you hand over your money for a minority interest and have little say in future developments. It just wasn't my cup of tea.

do you mind sharing what they wanted for 1 share back then??

if not not worries ..

do you mind sharing what they wanted for 1 share back then??

if not not worries ..I don't recall with 100% accuracy, but I seem to remember it was in the $500 to $1,000 range. It wasn't what I considered outrageous at the time, but I figured it would be years before it came to fruition...pun intended.

I'm not sure if Wheeler Park was actively building back then, but it seems to me that the activity there has pulled some of the interest away from Strawberry Fields.

^

At $750 per share, that would mean the 23 investors that are behind the lawsuit have a total investment of $1.5 million.

And if that only represents 6.4% of the total ownership as reported by the Oklahoman, that means the full investment thus far is about $25 million.

I don't recall with 100% accuracy, but I seem to remember it was in the $500 to $1,000 range. It wasn't what I considered outrageous at the time, but I figured it would be years before it came to fruition...pun intended.

I'm not sure if Wheeler Park was actively building back then, but it seems to me that the activity there has pulled some of the interest away from Strawberry Fields.

thanks

I don't recall with 100% accuracy, but I seem to remember it was in the $500 to $1,000 range. It wasn't what I considered outrageous at the time, but I figured it would be years before it came to fruition...pun intended.

I'm not sure if Wheeler Park was actively building back then, but it seems to me that the activity there has pulled some of the interest away from Strawberry Fields.

Activity at Wheeler should only spur additional interest in Strawberry Fields. The difference is that Wheeler had actual quality developers who knew how to masterplan a community and Strawberry Fields hired an architect to show some pretty pictures of what could be maybe.

If they are actually asking for the TIF money up front, I sincerely hope the city pulls approval for any TIF at all and tells them that no further TIF will be considered for that group.

^

At $750 per share, that would mean the 23 investors that are behind the lawsuit have a total investment of $1.5 million.

And if that only represents 6.4% of the total ownership as reported by the Oklahoman, that means the full investment thus far is about $25 million.I believe that the price of the shares increased over time. I seem to recall that I had only a few weeks to buy in at the lower price before the price of a share was going to increase by 50% or so. I'm sure the original investors got in for much less than later investors.

Activity at Wheeler should only spur additional interest in Strawberry Fields. The difference is that Wheeler had actual quality developers who knew how to masterplan a community and Strawberry Fields hired an architect to show some pretty pictures of what could be maybe.

If they are actually asking for the TIF money up front, I sincerely hope the city pulls approval for any TIF at all and tells them that no further TIF will be considered for that group.

I mean, the city is in a rock and a hard place. Those are prime areas for development. But also won't be sold by the owner, even under duress (see that meat market near Scissortail, different owner, but likely same outcome). So they will sit empty for a long time. Sometimes it is better to have some short-term TIF pain for a long-term development gain.

Are the properties under the purview of OCURA?

Are the properties under the purview of OCURA?

Only a couple of the parcels are still owned by OCURA.

Only a couple of the parcels are still owned by OCURA.

Maybe the other parcels start to look blighted and OCURA takes an interest? It looks like this is just turning into a land speculation operation.

Maybe the other parcels start to look blighted and OCURA takes an interest? It looks like this is just turning into a land speculation operation.

If the owners aren't willing to sell, their only mechanism is eminent domain and the price would have to be at least what the current owners paid, which is extremely high.

Also, it's tricky legal ground to forcibly take property and then sell it for private use.

Keep in mind that OCURA is basically the same group of people that run the Economic Development Trust and they were the ones to greenlight the $16 million in TIF.


It seems this group is functioning primarily as speculators, not developers. They have been actively seeking development partners and sales to others for years now. As far as I can tell, no one involved in this project has any commercial development background.

I mean, if they can't pay their property taxes, city might just get some "free" land out of the deal.

Sounds like there's enough problems within that the problem may take care of itself. We have plenty of places to develop and having a huge swath of land in 5-10 years could lead to some really cool developments.

I mean, if they can't pay their property taxes, city might just get some "free" land out of the deal.

Sounds like there's enough problems within that the problem may take care of itself. We have plenty of places to develop and having a huge swath of land in 5-10 years could lead to some really cool developments.

Don't think the city would get the land free. They would put it up for auction to pay the back taxes and costs. Excess must be distributed to the last property owner, I think.

If the owners aren't willing to sell, their only mechanism is eminent domain and the price would have to be at least what the current owners paid, which is extremely high.

Also, it's tricky legal ground to forcibly take property and then sell it for private use.

In eminent domain, they'd appoint commissioners who would valuate the land. I would think that a condemning authority would have a pretty good argument that the land wasn't worth close to what the buyers paid as they overpaid and were unable to profitably develop their land.

As far as condemning the land for private use, if it's "blighted," which is definitely what I'd call that land, then it can be condemned. It's currently overrun with the houseless. At the very least, code enforcement could probably step up its game and motivate the owners to develop the land or sell.


Keep in mind that OCURA is basically the same group of people that run the Economic Development Trust and they were the ones to greenlight the $16 million in TIF.

So you're suggesting that they may just be a little bit in the pocket of the developers? You're probably right on that count. This is why we can't have nice things.

I know exactly how eminent domain works. I've followed dozens of cases involving the city for years -- all were for public projects like the park or the convention center.

There is no chance the land has gone down in value as they bought most before the park, Omni and convention center were finished. And property in the core has only been going straight up for some time now.

There is zero chance the city is going to use eminent domain to forcibly take property in this sort of situation.

Land Value Tax. The problem will quickly resolve itself.

Don't think the city would get the land free. They would put it up for auction to pay the back taxes and costs. Excess must be distributed to the last property owner, I think.

That's why the quotation marks.

The most likely outcome here is that SF sells what they've put together to another group who 1) Has resources and 2) Has experience

Land Value Tax. The problem will quickly resolve itself.

Again, you saying something over and over again doesn't make it the correct answer. You want piss-poor, cookie cutter, quick through the process developments that are pathetic and detrimental to an area? Put a land value tax that put a clock on things. We need the opposite here.

Again, you saying something over and over again doesn't make it the correct answer. You want piss-poor, cookie cutter, quick through the process developments that are pathetic and detrimental to an area? Put a land value tax that put a clock on things. We need the opposite here.

You are going to force that to happen how? Taxing and a strong design district can work.

Again, you saying something over and over again doesn't make it the correct answer. You want piss-poor, cookie cutter, quick through the process developments that are pathetic and detrimental to an area? Put a land value tax that put a clock on things. We need the opposite here.

Actually, an LVT would practically enfore higher and better quality because the income would have to cover the land value tax - not just now but years into the future as the land value increased.

Actually, an LVT would practically enfore higher and better quality because the income would have to cover the land value tax - not just now but years into the future as the land value increased.

The legislature and rural intetests would be a high barrier to surmount.

Activity at Wheeler should only spur additional interest in Strawberry Fields. The difference is that Wheeler had actual quality developers who knew how to masterplan a community and Strawberry Fields hired an architect to show some pretty pictures of what could be maybe.

If they are actually asking for the TIF money up front, I sincerely hope the city pulls approval for any TIF at all and tells them that no further TIF will be considered for that group.

We all want to see results. If they had a good plan and the will to develop, they could sell more equity to the public. But they don't have it so they cannot sell it.

The legislature and rural intetests would be a high barrier to surmount.

Yeah, it is a lot of power for politicians to give up. However, OKC could do some form of it city-wide or even localized. If the whole state did it the results would be amazing though. No income tax, no franchise fees, no toll roads, no fuel tax, no corporate taxes, no sales taxes, free mass transit, etc...