Paul McCartney?

Every time I see the title of this thread I have a really strong urge to belt out "STRAWBERRY WINE" the country song... lol

It looks like they have added a Master Plan.

http://www.strawberryfieldsok.com/masterplan-1

http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13483&d=1485671607
http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13484&d=1485671607
http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13485&d=1485671607
http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13486&d=1485671607
http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13487&d=1485671607
http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13488&d=1485671607
http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13489&d=1485671607
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http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13491&d=1485671607
http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13492&d=1485671607
http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13493&d=1485671607
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http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13495&d=1485671607

I like everything except for what appears to be big box with large parking lots in the lower left corner. I would also like the buildings fronting the park to be minimum 30 stories.

I'd like to see some taller high rises as well, but in a case like this it's not entirely necessary. I wish they would get a timeline for development going.

I think an urban-format big box component could be a good thing. I'd rather an urban Walmart go there than Deep Deuce.

Let's hope this whole thing isn't some hoax by Walmart to get an urban store put in there. I want to note, I use the word urban by OKC standards. Not like what the urban stores shown here.

Fancy renderings and exciting layouts proposed with big box stores included... big box stores are built first... the rest either arent built or are sh!tty design or scaled back.

These are two great old structures in the middle of this proposed development but not owned by the Strawberry Fields group.

The white building is now the Fountain of Faith church but was originally the Czech Hall. Address is 515 SW 6th.

The Victorian house has been spruced up and they were close to getting an operator to put in a beer garden but that feel through; still trying to find the right tenant just a block west of the Czech Hall at 623 S. Dewey.

More on the old Czech Hall; it is on the National Register of Historic Places:


Czech Hall was constructed in 1924, replacing an earlier facility in the same location. The building served as a headquarters for the Western Czech Brotherhood Association, chartered in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Territory in 1903. This organization provided a broad range of support, from funeral insurance and assistance for new immigrants to social events, dances, and weddings. The Hall served a centerpiece for a neighborhood of Czechoslovakian immigrants where they could simultaneously practice their customs and traditions while helping each other adjust to life in a new country.

The modest, vernacular structure has had few alterations since it was constructed. It is a rare surviving example of an early neighborhood institution built by and for one of the immigrant populations that arrived with the opening of Oklahoma Territory to settlers.




http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/strawberry021117a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/strawberry021117b.jpg

https://twitter.com/stevelackmeyer/status/881326933761458176

I wonder if that's what this was referring to. https://www.facebook.com/WestparkOKC/photos/a.1657957627794802.1073741829.1587873938136505/1926212784302617/?type=3

http://newsok.com/planting-oklahoma-citys-strawberry-fields/article/5554746

They are both related.

http://www.strawberryfieldsok.com

1. Who are the Salames? What did they do for a living before starting these acquisitions? (All I know is Pat Salame used to work at the Waco equipment rental place on Classen and that they own a few small apartment buildings and they are both in their 60's)
2. Where did they get the $15 million to buy, scrape and sit on properties indefinitely?
3. Was Pat Salame even asked about her scores of investors (common knowledge) and who they might be?
4. Are they working with any of the 10+ other large property owners in the area between Scissortail Park and Western? (several own as much property, their 'master plan' shows grand vision for property of which only about 25% is owned by them)
5. How many demolitions have they performed rather than the one example of a structure they bought and left standing? (dozens, if you follow the permitting process)
6. Do they have plans to develop any of the property themselves? (I know for a fact they have spoken to other developers about spinning some land off for housing and were refused, at least for the time being)
7. Are they just speculators who plan to sit on most this property until others come in and offer them and their many investors a nice profit?

If you look at the map below, you'll see their ownership in pink. What you notice is that it is largely fragments that sit among other large property owners. (Green is city-owned).

There are at least a dozen owners / investors that own big chunks all around them.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/westpark070317.jpg

The Oklahoman article today stated that Pat Salames has a cousin who owns a pipeline company that is part of the ownership group behind SF.

The Oklahoman article today stated that Pat Salames has a cousin who owns a pipeline company that is part of the ownership group behind SF.

From people involved, I am told there are "dozens" of investors.

I'm looking into getting into real estate investing, and if I had the money I would be involved in it as well. This is a chance to really build out Downtown OKC and make a hell of an impact on the appearance of Dowtown as part of the overall core to shore plan.

are you implying there could be something fishy here, like say...coff coff, money laundering, coff coff...?




1. Who are the Salames? What did they do for a living before starting these acquisitions? (All I know is Pat Salame used to work at the Waco equipment rental place on Classen and that they own a few small apartment buildings and they are both in their 60's)
2. Where did they get the $15 million to buy, scrape and sit on properties indefinitely?
3. Was Pat Salame even asked about her scores of investors (common knowledge) and who they might be?
4. Are they working with any of the 10+ other large property owners in the area between Scissortail Park and Western? (several own as much property, their 'master plan' shows grand vision for property of which only about 25% is owned by them)
5. How many demolitions have they performed rather than the one example of a structure they bought and left standing? (dozens, if you follow the permitting process)
6. Do they have plans to develop any of the property themselves? (I know for a fact they have spoken to other developers about spinning some land off for housing and were refused, at least for the time being)
7. Are they just speculators who plan to sit on most this property until others come in and offer them and their many investors a nice profit?

If you look at the map below, you'll see their ownership in pink. What you notice is that it is largely fragments that sit among other large property owners. (Green is city-owned).

There are at least a dozen owners / investors that own big chunks all around them.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/westpark070317.jpg

are you implying there could be something fishy here, like say...coff coff, money laundering, coff coff...?

Absolutely not, just pointing out how it's another PR / promotional / softball piece by the Oklahoman on behalf of a big investor / developer, will many relevant unasked questions.

If I have a concern it's that this group will do nothing but drive up prices and make it harder for real developers to make something happen in that area.

Expect every project to 'need' plenty of TIF dollars, even though the city is investing hundreds of millions in the immediate area.

Absolutely not, just pointing out how it's another PR / promotional / softball piece by the Oklahoman on behalf of a big investor / developer, will many relevant unasked questions.

If I have a concern it's that this group will do nothing but drive up prices and make it harder for real developers to make something happen in that area.

Expect every project to 'need' plenty of TIF dollars, even though the city is investing hundreds of millions in the immediate area.

Finally someone is asking the real questions. I have always wondered how a property could be listed for sale at 3 million and only be taxed at the assessment value of 100k. If the property is worth 3 million then shouldn't it be taxed at 3 million to the current owners? Why is it only cool to tax the developer of the land at a 3 million dollar value.

Tldr; it seems our property tax system encourages this behavior.

^

It also explains how Rick Dowell can sit on a property for 22 years in the heart of downtown and do nothing, because it's not costing him anything to do so.

And for this area of downtown, there are lots of speculators and no development. When it is time to develop, I'm afraid only the speculators will make money and the real developers will then come to the city with their hand out for TIF dollars because "they can't make the numbers work at these prices".

Absolutely not, just pointing out how it's another PR / promotional / softball piece by the Oklahoman on behalf of a big investor / developer, will many relevant unasked questions.

If I have a concern it's that this group will do nothing but drive up prices and make it harder for real developers to make something happen in that area.

Expect every project to 'need' plenty of TIF dollars, even though the city is investing hundreds of millions in the immediate area.

Ugh, I hope not. Scissortail Park and all the other MAPS things in the area should be the "TIF." The city shouldnt be doing big projects that help bring new development and then still subsidize private developments.


Finally someone is asking the real questions. I have always wondered how a property could be listed for sale at 3 million and only be taxed at the assessment value of 100k. If the property is worth 3 million then shouldn't it be taxed at 3 million to the current owners? Why is it only cool to tax the developer of the land at a 3 million dollar value.

Tldr; it seems our property tax system encourages this behavior.

Thats going to happen when land/property prices rapidly increase. The annual maximum 5% bump in taxable value cant ever catch up. So basically its great for the city and state when old, undervalued land gets sold and a new taxable value is established. New property transactions correct that ad valorem imbalance.

Im sure no one in Oklahoma wants to see Texas like property tax rates but I do believe it spurs more people to do something with their property (rent, redevelop, etc) because it can be much more expensive there to let it sit empty and do nothing with it.

^

They just established a huge new TIF for this area in addition to everything else the taxpayers are already paying for: Park, boulevard, brand new Hudson Ave., streetcar, etc.

Here's one example of the type of houses I would love to see built in the area and elsewhere in Core to Shore, and anywhere else in the core for that matter.

Rowhouses in Cincinnati built in 1992.
13959

^^^^^^

Here's one example of the type of houses I would love to see built in the area and elsewhere in Core to Shore, and anywhere else in the core for that matter.

Rowhouses in Cincinnati built in 1992.
13959

I don't see how that is much different than Deep Duece.

What's I'd really love to see is an entire district of 3-6 story buildings that had street retail in every building and residential on floors 2-6. With very very little parking.

I don't see how that is much different than Deep Duece.

What's I'd really love to see is an entire district of 3-6 story buildings that had street retail in every building and residential on floors 2-6. With very very little parking.

Interesting, they look quite different to me than what is currently in Deep Deuce. I agree with your second sentence, though.

I'd love more of an appearance similar to the Back Bay in Boston. I always thought that was one of the most beautiful neighborhoods, although expensive as crap.

If they want to get something going down there, they should do a limited amount of halfway affordable for sale units, something not currently available in the core.

Plus, almost everything they own is in the middle of that area, so not well suited for anything commercial.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/sf070317.jpg

All of those beautiful, mature trees...

^ they will no doubt be mowed down the nanosecond development starts taking place.

This is also in the primary zone for John Rex. Will give you first priority in getting in.

^ they will no doubt be mowed down the nanosecond development starts taking place.

Whatever needs to be done to make the City look less than 50 years old.

Edit: Let's be a little more generous and say no older than WW2. So 70 years.

http://newsok.com/core-to-shore-comes-into-focus-plans-for-area-of-oklahoma-city-have-been-fuzzy-for-years/article/5555149

If they want to get something going down there, they should do a limited amount of halfway affordable for sale units, something not currently available in the core.

Plus, almost everything they own is in the middle of that area, so not well suited for anything commercial.

If enough people live there why wouldn't commercial work? Because of the masterplan? I would think if there is sufficient density, food places, laundromats, convenience stores, etc would work well as ground floor retail. This style of development may not be what they are going for, and certainly would be unprecedented in OK, but it could be done.

If enough people live there why wouldn't commercial work? Because of the masterplan? I would think if there is sufficient density, food places, laundromats, convenience stores, etc would work well as ground floor retail. This style of development may not be what they are going for, and certainly would be unprecedented in OK, but it could be done.

Just meant the people must come first.

Woah... at first this looked new. No date. Posted just now on Facebook.

http://www.gsb-inc.com/strawberry-fields/

^ Right, just saw these.

Here are the newish images:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/strawberry070517a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/strawberry070517b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/strawberry070517c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/strawberry070517d.jpg

Jinx :)

The first thing I thought of Pete were the drone photos you shot compared to this. So much more density!

They are tearing down the C.C. Cooke building at SW 3rd & Walker?

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/strawberrynowfuture.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PGPRb0k.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3piGai1h.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FIgWjUwh.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/strawberrynowfuture.jpg

WOW!!! love this!

Could've done a lot better on the name...

That's probably what a dream version of our planning should look like, but I doubt it will look half that good if the end product does eventually happen. We'll see what happens though. That would be a huge population boost to downtown if that entire area was pulled off like that, plus it would be somewhat connected to the Wheeler district and only separated by the river, correct?

It's nice to dream. :wink:

Could've done a lot better on the name...

it's nothing to get hung about.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/strawberrynowfuture.jpg

Closest historic angle I could find:
1932
https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960-a5da94dbbb07d86308bfd8d4891447cd.jpg

^

So cool!!

it's nothing to get hung about.

:band:

http://i.imgur.com/PGPRb0k.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3piGai1h.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FIgWjUwh.jpg

I like the overall plan, but this building definitely needs to be saved.

it's nothing to get hung about.

^^^^^^^
Wins OKCTalk for today.

If they were smart, they'd work with the city toward building a Middle School that Rex feeds into. It would give the area a big boost with the people who flock to Edmond for schools.

it's nothing to get hung about.

Well there it is. Only took 5 pages.

Rex already got the approval to go to 8th I believe, but agree, only about a high school.

Yes, pretty sure the Rex-affiliated middle school will be in the same location as the present elementary.

it's nothing to get hung about.

Strawberry Fields forever! Well played

I can already see this being something to get excited about. In a year or so, expect a Walmart Super Center to be the first anchor with a lot of surface parking. I'm not seeing that in the renderings but I am for the site plan.

I also don't see this to be that good of urban planning for the core. Lots of parking, no alleys just parking in the middle of fairly large blocks. Anyone car to take a guess at how much it would take to develop this?

I should make this clear, I'm not hating on this development. Playing devils advocate here. Many here know my support for sprawl and cars. I'd certainly settle for a Walmart Supercenter to see this built. I just don't want to see one proposed and gets built while these renderings get lost like the Lower Bricktown and Tuscana ones. I can't even find the rendering for Lower Bricktown anymore online.

I want to see this area become dense. The renderings look nice. I just don't know how much confidence I have in this getting done. I'm afraid it won't be Strawberry Fields forever. It'll be Strawberry Fields until they run out of money.

Also, the name sucks. But I guess we're just lucky they didn't name it Why Don't We Do It In The Road.