ODOT also may be expecting the East/West turnpike between Moore and Norman and I-35 to Kickapoo turnpike to take off some of the current load of this juncture's ramps.

i mean if they will get the I-44 to I-35 piece of that done as one of the first projects, I will be avoiding this interchange a lot more.

ODOT also may be expecting the East/West turnpike between Moore and Norman and I-35 to Kickapoo turnpike to take off some of the current load of this juncture's ramps.

I bet population growth will offset any of that.

I bet population growth will offset any of that.

Agreed. And if you look at the traffic on 35 in the morning, it's mostly commuter from Moore/Norman/Points South. There aren't a lot of vehicles there that tend to exit to 35 in the morning (when i go in to the office, i head up that way and turn west to 40, so i see where they go, at least from north Moore on north).

Whatever they do, it will be an improvement. And remember that the new cloverleafs will be bigger than the old ones. So it will all be part of the larger equation to keep that clover traffic out of the way and prevent it from existing in the merge mess like it is now.

You want to talk "why" about flyovers, the 44-35 junction they're working on now. I just do not understand why we are spending so much to make a right hand flyover from N35 to W44. I'm guessing they had to in order for the new 3 lane bit of S35 to fit under it, but dang that's a lot of money for such a short ramp....that's not so short anymore.

The remaining cloverleaf's, themselves, aren't the main problem. I see the flaw in the design (unless l understood it wrong) where the cloverleaf empies directly onto the main highway. These will always slow down the main highway traffic. The way l-35 is now, with separate highway segments for the loops to empty onto, is the way to go but access to 66th needs to be removed so the cloverleaf has much more room for acceleration.

Unless l'm mistaken, the EB-240 to NB l-35 loop will now empty directly to the main l-35. This will just cause more pileups for the morning commute.

That EB to NB route currently goes onto a service road and people stop and it gets backed up onto 240. I'll admit it is because of people going NB to WB that merge in and that will be reduced once the flyover is completed, but it just seems short sided. I didn't have an issue with this on 44/235 because there was a two lane separated road that SB to EB and WB to SB had to merge onto. That made it easier. It looks like on the map, they have plenty of room in every space except for the NE region.

The remaining cloverleaf's, themselves, aren't the main problem. I see the flaw in the design (unless l understood it wrong) where the cloverleaf empies directly onto the main highway. These will always slow down the main highway traffic. The way l-35 is now, with separate highway segments for the loops to empty onto, is the way to go but access to 66th needs to be removed so the cloverleaf has much more room for acceleration.

Unless l'm mistaken, the EB-240 to NB l-35 loop will now empty directly to the main l-35. This will just cause more pileups for the morning commute.

EB I-240 to NB I-35 will have it's own acceleration lane coming out of the cloverleaf ramp. That traffic will need to merge into mainline I-35 but they aren't being dumped directly into those lanes from the ramp. WB I-240 to NB I-35 will also have it's own acceleration lane too. Also, keep in mind that the northbound exit for SE 66th St will be relocated south of the interchange, so there won't be criss-crossing traffic between the interchange and SE 66th St anymore.

It seems to me that just having an acceleration lane will not be sufficient because people will inevitably jump off the acceleration lane to other lanes, especially if there is a large truck not accelerating very fast, and slow the entire highway down.

It seems to me that just having an acceleration lane will not be sufficient because people will inevitably jump off the acceleration lane to other lanes, especially if there is a large truck not accelerating very fast, and slow the entire highway down.

In fairness, this is no different than almost any other interchange. Few highway interchanges permanently add a lane from an on-ramp. And it's a far better arrangement than what exists today, since there will be no criss-crossing traffic.

I'm not talking about adding another permanent lane. As it is now, the loops have a dedicated separate roadway where cars can't change lanes onto the main highway until further down where traffic speeds are likely higher. By simply having an acceleration lane, slow traffic will move into the main highway much sooner.

I realize most interchanges are this way now but l don't see this as improving traffic flow on the main highway even at today's levels, much less 2040.

You want to talk "why" about flyovers, the 44-35 junction they're working on now. I just do not understand why we are spending so much to make a right hand flyover from N35 to W44. I'm guessing they had to in order for the new 3 lane bit of S35 to fit under it, but dang that's a lot of money for such a short ramp....that's not so short anymore.

They are doing it to eliminate the left exit and left merge, both of which are problematic. The left lane should be for faster traffic, not for people slowing down to take an exit.

Updated FHWA standards dictate no left hand exit lanes with new or reconstruction. This means that any new construction or reconstruction of interchanges that use federal dollars has to only have right-hand exits. This has been so since at least the late 1990s.

I'm not talking about adding another permanent lane. As it is now, the loops have a dedicated separate roadway where cars can't change lanes onto the main highway until further down where traffic speeds are likely higher. By simply having an acceleration lane, slow traffic will move into the main highway much sooner.

I realize most interchanges are this way now but l don't see this as improving traffic flow on the main highway even at today's levels, much less 2040.

The new interchange will still be a vast improvement vs the existing design. The traffic from that separate roadway still needs to merge into mainline I-35 at some point, and the current design doesn't encourage a fast flow of traffic onto NB I-35. Right now, you've got criss-crossing traffic at the cloverleaves (directly under the I-240 bridge), then merging traffic from the WB I-240 to NB I-35 ramp dumping into that feeder road right before it merges into I-35. On top of that, you then have criss-crossing traffic between vehicles coming off the feeder and vehicles trying to exit for SE 66th St. These conflict points all significantly slow the flow of traffic merging into NB I-35. All are either reworked or removed entirely in the new design, and combined with much larger cloverleaf ramps, this will enable traffic to flow much more freely than it currently does. I'm not saying the new design is perfect, but it's still a massive improvement over what we have currently.

I agree it will be a massive improvement. I just hate to see vast amounts of $ to be spent on the reconstruction and not do it the best possible way.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/35240010424a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/35240010424a.jpg

I can't seem to find the post with the current project outcome. Are they just adding new east and westbound exits for 240? Seems like the flyovers for the 35 exits are more important with current traffic patterns.

http://www.odot.org/newsmedia/press/2015/I35_I240_plan_map.jpg

here you go

https://www.odot.org/newsmedia/press/2015/I35_I240_plan_map.jpg

I am guessing they are giving a dedicated lane to the eastbound I-240 to Northbound I-35 cloverleaf?
That cloverleaf merge (stop) is by FAR the WORST part of that whole interchange.
Why not a Eastbound I-240 to Northbound I-35 flyover?

I am guessing they are giving a dedicated lane to the eastbound I-240 to Northbound I-35 cloverleaf?
That cloverleaf merge (stop) is by FAR the WORST part of that whole interchange.
Why not a Eastbound I-240 to Northbound I-35 flyover?

Based on estimating the needed land considering the flyovers already there, I would say that they dont have an E I-240 > N I-35 due to Dove Science Academy being in the way.

I am guessing they are giving a dedicated lane to the eastbound I-240 to Northbound I-35 cloverleaf?
That cloverleaf merge (stop) is by FAR the WORST part of that whole interchange.
Why not a Eastbound I-240 to Northbound I-35 flyover?

yes it will ... it won't merge until well north of the bridge

Plus the yielding for the east-to-north traffic was due to south-to-west traffic. With that merge conflict gone it should be okay. ODOT is not great at planning as you can see a stub of what would have been the east-to-north ramp on the east-to-south ramp. I

Based on estimating the needed land considering the flyovers already there, I would say that they dont have an E I-240 > N I-35 due to Dove Science Academy being in the way.

Nah, that's just value engineering. Doing the bare minimum to make sure you don't have two clovers interacting with each other. Similar to I-235/I-44. Still a significant improvement though. This has been planned long before Dove was there or even Heritage college before it.

Plus the yielding for the east-to-north traffic was due to south-to-west traffic. With that merge conflict gone it should be okay. ODOT is not great at planning as you can see a stub of what would have been the east-to-north ramp on the east-to-south ramp. I

What looks like it should be a stub for the east-to-north ramp from the current east-to-south ramp is actually part of the future main eastbound lanes for I-240.

What looks like it should be a stub for the east-to-north ramp from the current east-to-south ramp is actually part of the future main eastbound lanes for I-240.

Good eye. I didnt notice the highway was going to be realigned slightly.

Hmm i guess I owe ODOT an apology lol


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/35240010424a.jpg

http://www.odot.org/newsmedia/press/2015/I35_I240_plan_map.jpg

Are they doing all of the phases together over the next couple of years, or is this going to be another neverending project completed one phase at a time such as the I-44/I-235 interchange?

Are they doing all of the phases together over the next couple of years, or is this going to be another neverending project completed one phase at a time such as the I-44/I-235 interchange?

Since it looks like only phases 2 and 3 of the juncture are on the 8 year plan probably similar to I-44/I-235 interchange (though I am not sure if they still have the phases designated as 1-4, despite kind of was more of 6 with 1 broken in to sub-phases), part of the phasing is dependency on other phases being completed to keep the juncture open the whole time, but another issue is how much of the budget they can throw at one area at any given time. Granted the plan also shows resurfacing/rehabilitating the mainlines of i240 and i35 for miles in all directions of the interchange, along with some bridges along them, so are not exactly ignoring the area when not working on the juncture itself either.

Are they doing all of the phases together over the next couple of years, or is this going to be another neverending project completed one phase at a time such as the I-44/I-235 interchange?
Every other phase of this project was supposed to get underway by 2025 last I heard.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/35240033124a.jpg

It took me a minute to orient myself... looking toward the west above. Thanks for the drone shot, Pete!

I know it doesn't look like much there, but the prep stuff is SLOWLY moving along. That's the new frontage road on the left and they're working on the new exit for Eastern (they put lights in on both sides of 240 on Eastern...arent activated yet).

You can barely see the work on the left dirt area as they start working the next phase. I'd say, it's about to start getting messy here.

As someone who takes 35 - 240 basically every day, I am VERY excited for this. That Ramp H - BR D merge is one of the worst designs I’ve ever seen.

If you haven't been lately, well 240 is ripped up east of 35 now. Merged all to the westbound lanes. It's a real mess getting through there now with traffic swerving back and forth.

I can also see that they are starting on the new rail bridge. Some of the columns are in on the north side.

They are doing the prep work for drainage/etc on the east bound side so they can get to starting on the surface. I would imagine that they can do quite a bit of it while the train bridge is being worked on and then sort of fill-in after the old one is torn down.

There's really not much of anything happening anywhere else though. Maybe this section of 240 needs to be built with the new alignment before they start working on bridges over 35?

Like I said, it's slow progress, but right now it is steady progress. Better than it had been for several years. I only hope that when they do this section, they do a better job of it than they did on the western half of 240. That road is bumpier than the old one was....and you could see it was going to be from the crappy grading the did before they laid the asphalt down. I do not understand how jobs like that get approved by the state! Not to mention they never stained any of the concrete walls and they look like total crap.

If you haven't been lately, well 240 is ripped up east of 35 now. Merged all to the westbound lanes. It's a real mess getting through there now with traffic swerving back and forth.

I can also see that they are starting on the new rail bridge. Some of the columns are in on the north side.

They are doing the prep work for drainage/etc on the east bound side so they can get to starting on the surface. I would imagine that they can do quite a bit of it while the train bridge is being worked on and then sort of fill-in after the old one is torn down.

There's really not much of anything happening anywhere else though. Maybe this section of 240 needs to be built with the new alignment before they start working on bridges over 35?

Like I said, it's slow progress, but right now it is steady progress. Better than it had been for several years. I only hope that when they do this section, they do a better job of it than they did on the western half of 240. That road is bumpier than the old one was....and you could see it was going to be from the crappy grading the did before they laid the asphalt down. I do not understand how jobs like that get approved by the state! Not to mention they never stained any of the concrete walls and they look like total crap.

I believe the project to rebuild the bridges over I-35 will be included with the one to build the flyovers. Similar to I-44/I-235, all of that work was packaged together. So probably looking at 1 to 2 years to start.