Exactly right. We have got to raise our gas tax. ODOT went on a huge spree around 2004 or 2005 to try and raise awareness to the need to raise the gas tax to ATLEAST match those states around us and finally got it on the ballot to where it was voted NO to raising it gas 5 cents and diesel 8 I believe. And I believe it was an overwhelming majority like 80% of voters voted to not raise it. Yet I know most of these 80 percenters complain about the roads.

It goes to show the low priority Oklahomans have for better roads and highways. It's a situation we all have to live with. That was later further demonstrated when legislators raised the tax on gas by 3 cents to raise teacher pay, rather than for the roads, strangely enough. Bringing about better roads seems to be a hit at the local level, though. Stillwater voters approved by 70% to raise city sales tax for better streets. Generally, the streets there have been atrocious with two bridges closed for reconstruction.

A big reason is that federal transport dollars don't come to Oklahoma. For some reason, we don't get money the same way Texas does, or even in proportion. I don't know why that is, but it causes delays all the time.

I hope other Oklahoma federal legislators have done so, but Sen. Inhofe is the only one I know of that has directed millions to Oklahoma for highways and other infrastructure. The person most likely to replace him, Mullin, should be asked if he wants more federal highway construction funds directed to Oklahoma or instead supports fiscal restraint with federal money. I pay federal taxes every year, so don't mind some of it coming back.

All else being equal, an alternative needs to be found to the gas tax since gasoline is slowly declining in use.

Yes and taxing registration for an e vehicle doesn't equate to a gas tax. That's not a use tax, which a gas tax is. Yes you pay money when you use electricity, but unless you have a way to say X number of KWH goes to charging you car, then that money isn't going to ODOT. And THAT's where it needs to go for roads. We need a new model for this.

Maybe we remove the gas tax and instead, put something in to the state income tax? How do you make that fair in terms of use? There are so many ways with pros and cons here, but we have to start talking about them because this is reality.

Yes and taxing registration for an e vehicle doesn't equate to a gas tax. ...

For my situation, as long as the EV fee goes to the same place that the gas tax does, it's pretty much exactly the same. I used to (and currently) drive very little - work is ~4 miles away, we run a few errands in the MINI weekly, and I've been WFH for months (will go back in the office once life settles down a bit). So I'd guess that the EV Fee ($110, I think) easily equals or exceeds the amount of gas tax I pay/paid in a year.

However, all your other points stand for people that drive "normal" amounts of miles per year, yes, there does need to be some kind of use tax. I'm betting lots of other states (and countries) have started doing this, and we need to learn from them rather than doing what is usually done and reinvent the wheel (poorly).

again, it defeats the point to over tax EV to make it "equal" to gas powered vehicles; EVs are more efficient by nature, so the tax should be reflected proportional to that efficiency. You drive less yet you pay the same as you did with gas, seems like you're overtaxed and that isnt fair.

Looks like we need to match TX, 20%/20% with the 1% gain from gas going to transit and 4% increase from diesel going to roads. That makes the most sense since OK would still be the lowest in the region yet the funding increase could be used appropriately.

MAPS for New Interchanges!

MAPS for New Interchanges!
I lold, but there are much worse ideas! 😆

Yes and taxing registration for an e vehicle doesn't equate to a gas tax. That's not a use tax, which a gas tax is. Yes you pay money when you use electricity, but unless you have a way to say X number of KWH goes to charging you car, then that money isn't going to ODOT. And THAT's where it needs to go for roads. We need a new model for this.

Maybe we remove the gas tax and instead, put something in to the state income tax? How do you make that fair in terms of use? There are so many ways with pros and cons here, but we have to start talking about them because this is reality.

Whatever is devised needs to address out of state users of our roads and how to charge them accordingly. The gas tax does that now.

I lold, but there are much worse ideas! ��
What are you high? High five stacks for every interchange FU€K YES!

again, it defeats the point to over tax EV to make it "equal" to gas powered vehicles; EVs are more efficient by nature, so the tax should be reflected proportional to that efficiency. You drive less yet you pay the same as you did with gas, seems like you're overtaxed and that isnt fair.

Looks like we need to match TX, 20%/20% with the 1% gain from gas going to transit and 4% increase from diesel going to roads. That makes the most sense since OK would still be the lowest in the region yet the funding increase could be used appropriately.

It's not about efficiency for this kind of tax. It's about road ware. An E Suburban tears up the road just as much as a gas Suburban. But if you're not filling up, then you dont pay the gas tax. And OG&E doesn't have a way to split out that 5000kwh went to charging and should be considered "gas" to send those dollars to ODOT. Unless you start installing toll equipment on every on and off ramp, then you're not going to capture that funding. I'm NOT in favor of that in any way/shape/form, but my point is that we need a new method to cover this. Hybrid use isn't wide enough yet, but I bet you $100 that it serves to bridge the gap between the two systems because we are NOT ready for all e-vehicles. Generation would not be able to handle that and talk about the environmental mess that all those batteries cause.

It's not about efficiency for this kind of tax. It's about road ware. An E Suburban tears up the road just as much as a gas Suburban. But if you're not filling up, then you dont pay the gas tax. And OG&E doesn't have a way to split out that 5000kwh went to charging and should be considered "gas" to send those dollars to ODOT. Unless you start installing toll equipment on every on and off ramp, then you're not going to capture that funding. I'm NOT in favor of that in any way/shape/form, but my point is that we need a new method to cover this. Hybrid use isn't wide enough yet, but I bet you $100 that it serves to bridge the gap between the two systems because we are NOT ready for all e-vehicles. Generation would not be able to handle that and talk about the environmental mess that all those batteries cause.

Converting all vehicles to electric in America will not happen in my lifetime (I'm 57) and if I had children, it most likely wouldn't happen in their lifetime either. America's infrastructure (electric *and* all other parts - streets, bridges, natural gas, etc.) is pretty pi$$-poor compared to what it should be for a nation this "rich".

As far as batteries, they get recycled (or at least parts of them do), but I'm not sure how much, if it's valid recycling, etc., and there are also the mining costs for all the battery components that are unpleasant also, but those will all find solutions in the next decade or so, hopefully.

large tractor trailers should pay more, that was my main point. They tear up the roads.

large tractor trailers should pay more, that was my main point. They tear up the roads.

In the old world, they could have by way of the gas tax. The more you use, the more you pay. It's a direct use tax that was really the most fair way to do it. It's a bit of a stretch to be able to drive the entire length of 40 or even 46 without having to get gas at least once. There aren't truck stops just sitting at the borders trying to get you through OK afterall.

I agree that its going to be quite some time before we really have any volume to concern ourselves with in terms of e-vehicles. So i fully support adding some gas tax dollars now. I'm just saying, start thinking about how the model is going to change later. Wanna go super techy with it, make the cars report in to a system. Think FuelMan, enter your mileage when you plug in. Just an idea. Then there's your tax when the charge is done based on the mileage between and some formula about charging/etc.

I like the idea of the vehicle self reporting; however I would only trust it if location data was stripped and it was just pure mileage. But, it would be a shock to people to get a bill at the end of the month, quarter, or year from the states they owe tax to. People don’t notice it now because it is included in the price of gas - it is invisible.

I think the funding mechanism will need to be completely re-evaluated at some point. People rarely want to see a bill. That tax has to be included in someway into the electricity rate. A self reporting system could report directly to the utility provider and charge EV mileage through their electric bill. This would have to be independent of actual electricity used and be strictly mileage based because some people have solar energy and don’t use any or much grid electricity to charge their vehicles. .

Surprise surprise I don’t see any mention of bids going out for the next phase of this interchange like they had said was going to happen in December:

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2022/december-transportation-commission-meeting-scheduled-for-monday-.html

Surprise surprise I don’t see any mention of bids going out for the next phase of this interchange like they had said was going to happen in December:

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2022/december-transportation-commission-meeting-scheduled-for-monday-.html

Why am I not shocked? No one will ever be able to convince me the Douglas Blvd. Interchange should be prioritized over this. What an embarrassment.

Surprise surprise I don’t see any mention of bids going out for the next phase of this interchange like they had said was going to happen in December:

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2022/december-transportation-commission-meeting-scheduled-for-monday-.html

The next phase will be out for bid in December 2022 which means the bid will be opened on December 20th and will be awarded in early January. The bids that ODOT is awarding on December 5th are from November. If you are interested, ODOT has the plans for the next phase online. This phase will include the remaining access road work, the work on I-240 east of Poe Road, the Texas turnaround at SW 59th St., and the ramp from I-35 north to I-240 east.

Thanks VA. I think we're all just anxious to get it started (and over with).

Thanks VA. I think we're all just anxious to get it started (and over with).

ODOT awarded the contract for the next phase (1B) of construction today. They have 795 days to complete the project.

ODOT awarded the contract for the next phase (1B) of construction today. They have 795 days to complete the project.

Phase 1B realigns the NW, NE, and SE service roads to allow space for the new interchange design:

https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/odot/documents/meetings/a2015/150611/sequence-of-construction.pdf

Phase 1B realigns the NW, NE, and SE service roads to allow space for the new interchange design:

https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/odot/documents/meetings/a2015/150611/sequence-of-construction.pdf

The online plans show a slightly expanded scope of work in this contract. In addition to the service roads mentioned, the contract will also complete the section east of Pole Road on I-240 and the ramp from I-35 North to I-240 East.

I know it is highly unlikely but is there any chance the plans for this interchange still include the oil industry theme?

https://creativedesignresolutions.com/project/i-240-i-35-interchange-2/

I know it is highly unlikely but is there any chance the plans for this interchange still include the oil industry theme?

https://creativedesignresolutions.com/project/i-240-i-35-interchange-2/
^^
This would be absolutely magnificent given as you drive north you drive through the city's heavy industrial area.

That's awesome, i love those pillars! Nice accent with the derrick metal on the bridges too. Will ODOT go for it? Probably not. It's too interesting and thus probably too expensive. :(

Supposedly there was a story on KOCO today from ODOT about work imminent in the I-240/I-35 exchange, possibly including ramp work?? Anyone see any details?

Supposedly there was a story on KOCO today from ODOT about work imminent in the I-240/I-35 exchange, possibly including ramp work?? Anyone see any details?

I didn't see anything on KOCO's website about it. It's on ODOTs 8 year plan, but they keep pushing the phases out for some reason. The interchange is not only an embarrassment, but perhaps the most dangerous one in the entire State.

I didn't see anything on KOCO's website about it. It's on ODOTs 8 year plan, but they keep pushing the phases out for some reason. The interchange is not only an embarrassment, but perhaps the most dangerous one in the entire State.

Well supposedly someone saw something indicating upcoming closures for work to be done this upcoming summer.

Given that the contract for Phase 1B of this interchange was awarded in January (posted earlier in this thread (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=41777&page=5&p=1221316#post1221316)), I'd expect that work on that should be starting soon - and if I had to hazard a guess, that's probably what KOCO was referencing. Phase 1B reconfigures the access roads around this interchange and I believe will close the ramps to and from SE 66th St (if I'm reading the construction phasing diagram correctly).

I didn't see anything on KOCO's website about it. It's on ODOTs 8 year plan, but they keep pushing the phases out for some reason. The interchange is not only an embarrassment, but perhaps the most dangerous one in the entire State.
Perhaps this year they’ll move them up again but I wouldn’t hold my breath. I was beyond peeved when I saw how far back they pushed these projects only to see a new east to west interstate initiative proposed for Tulsa(which does need it but not at the expense of this) as well as the expediting of the US-75/I-44 interchange. We definitely got the shaft here.

Given that the contract for Phase 1B of this interchange was awarded in January (posted earlier in this thread (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=41777&page=5&p=1221316#post1221316)), I'd expect that work on that should be starting soon - and if I had to hazard a guess, that's probably what KOCO was referencing. Phase 1B reconfigures the access roads around this interchange and I believe will close the ramps to and from SE 66th St (if I'm reading the construction phasing diagram correctly).

I remember almost two decades ago now when Crossroads mall was complaining that this interchange would put them out of business.........

I remember almost two decades ago now when Crossroads mall was complaining that this interchange would put them out of business.........

Surely if the construction happened sooner it wouldn’t have killed them off.

I remember almost two decades ago now when Crossroads mall was complaining that this interchange would put them out of business.........

Looking closely at the diagram I mentioned, it looks like drivers on NB I-35 will still have access to SE 66th St via the exit south of the interchange once everything is completed. To get back on NB I-35 from SE 66th, drivers will still need to go up to the on-ramp from SE 59th St just like they do today. The existing exit for SE 66th St from SB I-35 will not be modified - however the current on-ramp from SE 66th to SB I-35 will be eliminated. It looks like a Texas Turnaround will also be installed at SE 59th St, however, so traffic needing to go southbound can go north to 59th, take the turnaround lane, then take the existing on-ramp from 59th onto SB I-35. A bit more convoluted but not too bad.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/35240040923a.jpg

Perhaps this year they’ll move them up again but I wouldn’t hold my breath. I was beyond peeved when I saw how far back they pushed these projects only to see a new east to west interstate initiative proposed for Tulsa(which does need it but not at the expense of this) as well as the expediting of the US-75/I-44 interchange. We definitely got the shaft here.

On the plus side, definitely feels like we're getting the better end of the deal with Access Oklahoma, assuming they all actually get built.

Looking closely at the diagram I mentioned, it looks like drivers on NB I-35 will still have access to SE 66th St via the exit south of the interchange once everything is completed. To get back on NB I-35 from SE 66th, drivers will still need to go up to the on-ramp from SE 59th St just like they do today. The existing exit for SE 66th St from SB I-35 will not be modified - however the current on-ramp from SE 66th to SB I-35 will be eliminated. It looks like a Texas Turnaround will also be installed at SE 59th St, however, so traffic needing to go southbound can go north to 59th, take the turnaround lane, then take the existing on-ramp from 59th onto SB I-35. A bit more convoluted but not too bad.

I'm actually glad that 66th to 35-S ramp will be taken out. It's one of those limited merge areas where the traffic exiting for 240 is fighting. There's not just a ton of traffic from the ramp, but it's a good decision. Just like the FAR more busy Shields closure to 240 East decision. That one really was a big deal, but with the turnarounds, it doesn't really cause THAT much more wait time. Really just one stop light.

They're putting down a large area of asphalt in the grassy area on the (I believe) northwest corner of the interchange. I'm guessing this will be a construction equipment staging area?

I remember almost two decades ago now when Crossroads mall was complaining that this interchange would put them out of business.........

Crossroads failed because of a laundry list of bad decisions on the mall management’s part. The main one building Crossroads Village Shopping Center blocking the view of the mall. The last nail in the coffin was the decline of the neighborhoods nearby.

I don’t see the 240/35 rebuild happening anytime in the near future. The earliest it will happen in my book is around 2047, 2057 if we’re lucky. The state and the city of Oklahoma City only like spending money west of I-35 and North of I-40.

Crossroads failed because of a laundry list of bad decisions on the mall management’s part. The main one building Crossroads Village Shopping Center blocking the view of the mall. The last nail in the coffin was the decline of the neighborhoods nearby.

I don’t see the 240/35 rebuild happening anytime in the near future. The earliest it will happen in my book is around 2047, 2057 if we’re lucky. The state and the city of Oklahoma City only like spending money west of I-35 and North of I-40.

The earliest phases of the 240/35 rebuild has already gotten to a point in time ODOT classifies as non-flexible, while projects on the 8-year plan do have a tendency to slide back some time. It tends to be more on the order of one to a few years, not a couple decades.

Crossroads failed because of a laundry list of bad decisions on the mall management’s part. The main one building Crossroads Village Shopping Center blocking the view of the mall. The last nail in the coffin was the decline of the neighborhoods nearby.

I don’t see the 240/35 rebuild happening anytime in the near future. The earliest it will happen in my book is around 2047, 2057 if we’re lucky. The state and the city of Oklahoma City only like spending money west of I-35 and North of I-40.
That’s not even remotely true. This entire interchange will be finished by the end of the decade. With any luck we’ll see it moved up again in October.

That’s not even remotely true. This entire interchange will be finished by the end of the decade. With any luck we’ll see it moved up again in October.

I agree with Plutonic. Everyone knew Crossroads was there. You couldn't miss it. So having a stripmall there didn't do it in any more than having Libbys there did. What was present in that stripmall was not anything that would have been inside the mall, save the tux shop. The neighborhood has been "questionable" for 50 years at least. I mean Valley Brook has never in it's existence been known as more than speed trap with strip joints. I'm not sure how it's "declined" any more than it was in the early 90's.

Mall management did whine for a long time about access, but again I think that's an excuse. People didn't choose to not go to Crossroads in large numbers, because they had to take a frontage road to get there. It simply fell to the common pressures that people stopped wanting to go to malls for their shopping and wanted the more convenient strip options. This was a fact of shopping habits in general changing. Crossroads and Heritage were both examples of places that had the "common" stores in them that could easily migrate to those strip centers. Penn, on the other hand, was a collection of the next level up in stores. Not super fancy, but of brands that dont traditionally go to free-standing or strip centers (save for outlets).

If that were solely the case, then Westgate would have prevented the Outlet Mall from being built too. And the surrounding neighborhood there is some of the worst for petty crime in the city. So my point here is that there are a ton of factors that went in to this. And that's partly why it's been so difficult for anyone to find new uses for structures like this anywhere in the US. Shepard is one of the few exceptions that has kept trying to reinvent what it is to keep leases going as commercial office space. There's enough of a need nearby to keep it going since it's not a large structure to being with. But it's a constant fight. Heritage is being taken over by MWC as blight. They're evaluating their next step, which I think will involve bulldozers. I think Heritage will actually be a good thing for Crossroads to watch. It's similar in that there are multiple owners on the property, some of which are occupied by a good tenant. So when the dozers come knocking, it'll be a question of how much they take, and then what comes next.

Looks that construction for I-35/I-240 will start June 5th. They already put the construction signs out on 240 and 35 letting people know

Looks that construction for I-35/I-240 will start June 5th. They already put the construction signs out on 240 and 35 letting people know

You beat me to it. They also have construction trailers set up near Home Depot. Okay, I'm kind of unfamiliar with this. How much of the project are they going to be doing? The entire rebuild?

You beat me to it. They also have construction trailers set up near Home Depot. Okay, I'm kind of unfamiliar with this. How much of the project are they going to be doing? The entire rebuild?

Here is a little bit of a description one page back. https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=41777&page=18&p=1221378#post1221378

Crossroads failed because of a laundry list of bad decisions on the mall management’s part. The main one building Crossroads Village Shopping Center blocking the view of the mall. The last nail in the coffin was the decline of the neighborhoods nearby.

I don’t see the 240/35 rebuild happening anytime in the near future. The earliest it will happen in my book is around 2047, 2057 if we’re lucky. The state and the city of Oklahoma City only like spending money west of I-35 and North of I-40.

Yes, and that is kind of the point I was getting at with my post. That construction and road ramp closure never came.

Regarding the second part of your comment. They are literally starting a major phase a little over a week from now. It will probably take longer than it should to finish the whole thing, but they should get it done within the next ten years, hopefully sooner

The other phases should all be awarded in FY 25https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/major-projects/ongoing-projects/i-35-i-240-interchange-improvements0.html.

Since this thread brings up a part of I-35, I'll ask this question here. So, what caused all that damage to the inside lane of it on the north side starting somewhere south of Edmond and stretching at least to where I got off to get on I-44. Hell, maybe the damage extends clear to I-240 and beyond. I can't imagine what caused it, other than it's like something like tracks a tank would leave, but surely not that. Whatever, whoever caused that damage ought to be held accountable for it. I don't seem to recall seeing anything like it before.

Since this thread brings up a part of I-35, I'll ask this question here. So, what caused all that damage to the inside lane of it on the north side starting somewhere south of Edmond and stretching at least to where I got off to get on I-44. Hell, maybe the damage extends clear to I-240 and beyond. I can't imagine what caused it, other than it's like something like tracks a tank would leave, but surely not that. Whatever, whoever caused that damage ought to be held accountable for it. I don't seem to recall seeing anything like it before.
Generally if they know who caused it and have the insurance information (or a criminal case filed like in a DUI), they will file a claim or seek restitution through the court. My son lost control last summer and totalled his car playing bumper cars between opposing guard rails. It was either City of Norman or OK DOT that filed a claim with our insurance for the $3500 damage.

Glad they are finally getting this going. Since I live in the Moore/Norman area, will make traffic flow seamless going to OKC. But I would imagine traffic will be a nightmare when they start temp closing lanes.

After this, hopefully ODOT widens I-240 to 6 lanes from I-35 to I-40.

The biggest highlight on the phase their working on is a new railroad bridge. I imagine they will do something similar to what they did on I-235.

The biggest highlight on the phase their working on is a new railroad bridge. I imagine they will do something similar to what they did on I-235.

I dont think it will be anything as elaborate. 235 required special handling because of the length/angle of the bridge. The 35 bridge is right on perpendicular so it's a straight shot across. I would be surprised if they even remove the middle support rather than just building a newer bridge of the same style, that just has wider openings. It's also got to have a section for the Frontage Rd. But spanning to cover all of those, seems expensive and not necessary.

So, are they starting on this interchange? They have setup a Dolese Onsite Concrete. And have been clearing out the NW side of the interchange.

Yes, they are finally. They are starting preliminary site work.

Are there any visual concepts of the new plan? I know they are probably on ODOT, but I find it very difficult to navigate their website.

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/banner-project-updates/i35andi240meeting.html

https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/odot/documents/meetings/a2015/150611/handout-e.pdf

https://www.odot.org/newsmedia/press/2015/I35_I240_plan_map.jpg

https://creativedesignresolutions.com/project/i-240-i-35-interchange-2/

I'm really sick of the half flyover interchanges. The EB 240 to NB 35 is already awful. This interchange needs a multi stack highway. I think 235 was OK, but this and the 44/40 needs to be more efficient.

I'm really sick of the half flyover interchanges. The EB 240 to NB 35 is already awful. This interchange needs a multi stack highway. I think 235 was OK, but this and the 44/40 needs to be more efficient.
So much this. That segment is disgusting.

definitey need flyovers at EB I-240 to NB I-35 and EB I-40 to NB I-235.

Not sure why ODOT seems to ignore the direction that has the most flow: SB I-35 to EB I-240 has a flyover?? come on now.

I'm really sick of the half flyover interchanges. The EB 240 to NB 35 is already awful. This interchange needs a multi stack highway. I think 235 was OK, but this and the 44/40 needs to be more efficient.

I get it and don't necessarily disagree... but keep in mind this interchange is space constrained in the NE quadrant due to businesses surrounding the old Crossroads Mall. If I recall correctly, that was the reason this wasn't designed as a full-stack interchange. This design will still be a VAST improvement over the existing interchange, though - even for the cloverleaf segments, each ramp will have it's own dedicated deceleration and acceleration lane so merge conflicts should be largely eliminated.

definitey need flyovers at EB I-240 to NB I-35 and EB I-40 to NB I-235.

Not sure why ODOT seems to ignore the direction that has the most flow: SB I-35 to EB I-240 has a flyover?? come on now.

I live about a mile from this interchange. EB I-240 to SB I-35 and NB I-35 to WB I-240 are the highest demand movements, especially during rush hour. The already completed EB 240 to SB 35 ramp did a LOT to help alleviate congestion in the evening rush.

ODOT also may be expecting the East/West turnpike between Moore and Norman and I-35 to Kickapoo turnpike to take off some of the current load of this juncture's ramps.