What is the estimated price on this garage? Wondering about current cost per parking space, and also how much the nicer exterior is adding to the cost of construction.

This won't just be typical publicly-available parking though, so a standard rate may only apply to what's excess after the hotel guests are parked. The nicer exterior makes a lot of sense when you're doing parking to enable a hotel (Patel's) and an office bldg (Cummins) that will be built without parking, and probably obtain leases here.

I don't mean cost to park, I mean cost to build.

I don't mean cost to park, I mean cost to build.

I heard a good estimate is $5,000 for surface and $20,000 for a garage per spot. This might be wrong.

The new Main Street Garage cost $19MM for 830 spaces plus retail, which equates to a little over $23K per space.

This is pretty awesome. This one project is more infill than Bricktown has had in years, since the HGI was built. But this is just another infill project. Hard to wrap my mind around what BT was, what it is now and what it will be in a year. With Criterion, Steelyard, 3 more hotels, Bodyworks site, Cummings building, the hotel just to the east of this and this project? Mind Blown! And to think most of it has ground floor retail! BT has a very bright future!

After all of the hell we (transit advocates) raised about Karchmer attempting to bifurcate the commuter rail corridor with parking structures in east Bricktown, I am glad to see him distracted and busy with this project.

It will be a perfect Park N' Ride for the streetcar system and will serve Santa Fe Station well until the Cox CC site is redeveloped in the future. With the streetcar stop immediately adjacent and the new pedestrian tunnel through the backside of Santa Fe Station, this garage will help with accessibility to the area.

After all of the hell we (transit advocates) raised about Karchmer attempting to bifurcate the commuter rail corridor with parking structures in east Bricktown, I am glad to see him distracted and busy with this project.

It will be a perfect Park N' Ride for the streetcar system and will serve Santa Fe Station well until the Cox CC site is redeveloped in the future. With the streetcar stop immediately adjacent and the new pedestrian tunnel through the backside of Santa Fe Station, this garage will help with accessibility to the area.

Park N' Ride? When you're already downtown? Yikes.

This is pretty awesome. This one project is more infill than Bricktown has had in years, since the HGI was built. But this is just another infill project. Hard to wrap my mind around what BT was, what it is now and what it will be in a year. With Criterion, Steelyard, 3 more hotels, Bodyworks site, Cummings building, the hotel just to the east of this and this project? Mind Blown! And to think most of it has ground floor retail! BT has a very bright future!

I believe there is supposed to be a garage replacing the surface lot next to the Melting Pot as well.

^^^^^^
He was intending on doing this project first all along.

Park N' Ride? When you're already downtown? Yikes.

That's exactly what I was trying to say.

Park N' Ride? When you're already downtown? Yikes.

Park once and ride the streetcar everywhere else. That is going to be the way of it unless you already reside downtown or are taking a bus. At least for the next 8 - 12 years before a commuter rail system exists. Mind you, I am not big on building parking garages on prime property. But that seems to be the reality.

Park N' Ride? When you're already downtown? Yikes.

Yea - I finally just had to give up myself. If anything, this will decrease ridership.

Park N' Ride? When you're already downtown? Yikes.

Given the fact so many people here currently gasp at the thought of walking from Bricktown to MBG or Deep Deuce, that will be a step forward. There has to be a change in the way of thinking in terms of parking in OKC, and the first step is that you don't always have to park right in front of your destination. The streetcar should really help that.

Trurh be told, car parking next to the streetcar won't impact it either way - because mass transit isn't for people who drive. It is for people who don't drive.

Trurh be told, car parking next to the streetcar won't impact it either way - because mass transit isn't for people who drive. It is for people who don't drive.

That's ridiculous.

The huge percentage that will ride the streetcar will be people with cars who either live or work in the area.

That's ridiculous.

The huge percentage that will ride the streetcar will be people with cars who either live or work in the area.

They might own a car, but it won't be used in conjunction with a mass transit trip. The vast majority of all mass transit users start out and end as pedistrians - but I have no doubt OKC will try the Park and Ride model anyhow. I forget the term for it but the propensity for a person to stick to one type of transit for a single trip is very high. It is almost unreasonable to expect someone to drive downtown, pay to park in this garage, and then take the streetcar to midtown that A) Already has their own parking garages and B) has ample free parking. The more likely scenario would have been the other way around - parking in a less congested midtown and taking the streetcar into Bricktown, but even that was unlikly because Bricktown alread has ample parking.

Trurh be told, car parking next to the streetcar won't impact it either way - because mass transit isn't for people who drive. It is for people who don't drive.

Go check out the line south out of downtown Denver along I-25. For 15 or 20 miles ever so often there are large parking garages where people park to jump on the rail line.

I know that I will drive to downtown, pay to park in the garage, and then use the street car to get around downtown and to Midtown. When I move from place to place downtown why would I want to use my car when each time I move it I'd have to pay again for parking?

JTF lives in a fantasy binary world of 1's and 0's. It's either of or on, it's either great or crappy.

I park and ride frequently in Portland. It's many times easier to drive and skip 10 stops (which takes FOREVER) on the light rail, and ride the rail in the last mile.

Mass transit is for everybody, not just people without cars. Many people combine cars with transit.

Go check out the line south out of downtown Denver along I-25. For 15 or 20 miles ever so often there are large parking garages where people park to jump on the rail line.

Same thing in Virginia/Maryland. People park and ride into DC on the metro.

Do you all really think this parking garage is going to increase streetcar ridership? If so, is the Streetcar committee going to increase their ridership expectations accordingly? Is this now a TOD?

Do you all really think this parking garage is going to increase streetcar ridership? If so, is the Streetcar committee going to increase their ridership expectations accordingly? Is this now a TOD?

This is out of hand. This whole conversation.

This garage will not be a transformative piece of the streetcar. As any parking garage along a transit rail line, there will be people who use it to park, to ride to a different area of town. It's sole purpose is to serve the businesses around the garage, but it's no stretch of the imagination to say people who park there may grab a ride on the streetcar if they need to also visit a different part of downtown during the same visit.

Jeez.

So strange. You will find no bigger transit advocate than me. I have travelled all over the US studying transit systems. This community is in transition but it will be a good decade before a commuter rail system exists or enhanced bus service. Therefore, the car will rarely leave the transportation equation for many people.

My reference to a "Park N' Ride" is simply based on my own personal behavior... which I assume is shared by many. I have lived and/or worked downtown since 2001. Regular short trips downtown involve trips to the bank, lunch, office buildings, and city meetings. On a good day, I will ride my bicycle if I am not in a suit. But the reality is that I am often carrying stuff or in the suit making bicycling challenging. Plus there is the time element that often forces me to drive instead of walking across downtown. The other element is the cost. Parking can be expensive and metered parking brings the threat of a ticket should a meeting run over.

The streetcar is a pedestrian enabler. Karchmer's parking garage will serve those wanting to reach those businesses in that area of Bricktown. It is totally conceivable that once people park there, some will use the streetcar to access other parts of downtown without repeatedly using the car, looking for parking, and paying at multiple locations to temporarily store the car. At least that in my mind is a more efficient way to take advantage of the initial parking.

It doesn't mean that there probably isn't a higher and better use for the property. However, having the garage there probably won't affect streetcar ridership. The garage will probably be absorbing cars used for commuting.

I have also become accustomed to the fact that the dramatic potential impact of the streetcar is broadly misunderstood and rarely factored into current developmental planning. Hopefully that will change as the system comes online and its positive attributes enabling broader access to most of downtown result in more density and diversity.

Ignoring dogmatic thinking makes me no more less a transit and streetcar advocate and instead simply acknowledges reality. A bunch of us fought Karchmer tooth and nail behind closed doors to try to preserve the right-of-way for future commuter rail. That is where urbanist dogma fully kicked in, was appropriate, and we ended up saving the right-of-way. He is a nice guy and I am happy to see him develop somewhere else in a way that he can have financial success. If acknowledging that there are possibly beneficial elements to the streetcar system because some​ people might use it as a Park N' Ride makes me a sell out, so be it.

^^^^^^
He has not abandoned plans to develop the other property. That's great that the ROW was preserved, but the two developments were never an either/or.

Regarding this garage, people forget that there are thousands of employees and students in Bricktown; and not only service industry employees. Office workers, higher ed and others drive to the district every day to work and to study. This facility will have many daily and monthly parkers. As many of those people choose to move to the garage it frees up metered and surface spots for customers, and also makes it possible to develop surface lots elsewhere in the district (for instance the surface lot across the street). By the way, those office workers and students (and hotel guests) will without question use the streetcar to expand their dining and entertainment choices while parked in this garage.

Besides, structured parking isn't the enemy of the urban environment; surface parking is. This idea that we will one day be a city without cars is pure fantasy.

I will use the streetcar. I will also need to drive downtown to use it. I will park in a lot, on street, or garage when I get downtown, and then use the streetcar to visit multiple destinations without re parking.

One more thing: the people who are acting like this is a less-than-desirable outcome for this property are ignoring the fact that it makes the hotel across the street possible AND supports the redevelopment of upper-floors above Melting Pot. The garage is intrinsic to these projects.

It could also support upper-story redevelopment above Spaghetti Warehouse - either office or residential - should a developer be able to get a deal there (they are trying).

If you (choose to) look at this in a vacuum, it's just a (very nice) parking garage. But if you view it from the standpoint of how it directly and indirectly supports redevelopment of other properties, it's one of the most important projects in the history of the district.

One of the most important projects in the history of the district because it makes Bricktown's 9th hotel possible?

It is a parking garage, and a pretty nice one - but let's not over-hype it.

Sure, if that's how you choose to see it. I mean, that's pretty much exactly what I said, right? Or perhaps you're just deliberately mischaracterizing my post for effect..? Nah, you'd never do that...

Okay - I'll agree it is in the Top 30 most important developments in the history of Bricktown.

It's a parking garage, and a nice one. It adds more parking, which gives additional convenience for suburbanites to come downtown and spend money. There will be street level retail or restaurant space. It's useful. It supports the fabric of bricktown. If you fill in all the surface parking but don't replace the spaces, it becomes burdensome for people to visit the district. There's a balance. I think this is a clear net positive.

Okay - I'll agree it is in the Top 30 most important developments in the history of Bricktown.

You are so ridiculous at times.

The fact that a parking garage is receiving so much praise here, shows how far this city has to go. Funny thing is, this board gets pretty hostile towards cars at times, yet somehow approves of increased parking capacity downtown.

BTW, I have never had one parking issue anywhere in OKC. I have driven around for almost an hour at my apartment off Fountain in Los Angeles looking for parking. That is a parking problem. A garage was proposed back in 2013 or so and failed right close to where I live and now they are building a 200 something unit residential with a Sprouts underneath.

But in my opinion, if this is one of the most important projects in Bricktown's history, that is sad. Even more sad that developers don't have enough confidence in district to build a hotel without a parking garage right across the street.

Let's also look at how many parking garages there are or proposed.

Recently completed

*Aloft Garage(100 spaces?? and I never see more than 20 cars or so in it)
*Main Street Garage(800 spaces)
*123 Garage
*Devon Parking expansion

Almost never see those full and the 3 employees I know who work at Devon say there is garage is almost never full.

Under-construction

*I'll just add this garage since it'll probably pass
*BOK Plaza center garage(500-800 spaces or possibly even more??)

Proposed

*Karchmer Garage (Bricktown over 1000 spaces)
*OGE Garage
*Journal Record Building Garage

That's not even including the new garages being built in the Steelyard, Convention Center, Bodyworks Site, Maywood Phase 2, Metropolitan, etc. I mean there a sh!tload of parking garages being built. Then people want to complain about walkability issues or new tollways and highways being built. It makes no sense to me.

Don't get me wrong, there has to be some sort of parking structures in downtown, but it seems what we have is enough or very close to it.

Personally I'm not praising increased capacity; I'm excited that it will unlock quality development in other properties - including a surface lot. In fact, this development eliminates TWO surface lots, and may even cause a rethink of the lot between Chelino's and Mojo's/Biting Sow. Oh, and BTW creates 16,000 sq ft of new street front retail/commercial along Sheridan. Poor-mouthing this building is comical.

I'm not trying to poor mouth this building. It's beautiful and will add a great streetwall presence while hopefully adding to the street life which I think it will. I just also believe it is hiding something that is a root of a bigger issue in OKC. I would be much more excited if it went 1st level retail, 2-5 parking, 6-9 housing.

I don't think you're poor-mouthing it PluPan. Sorry if the timing of that comment made it seem that way.

No worries. I completely agree that this will open up new development opportunities for other lots and that is exciting. So I'm ready to see that.

Don't get me wrong, there has to be some sort of parking structures in downtown, but it seems what we have is enough or very close to it.

Agreed. People also need to learn that they don't always have to park right in front of their destination. They can park at this garage and walk anywhere in Bricktown, Deep Deuce, or Myriad Gardens from there. Part of the problem in OKC is people can't accept walking more than a block or two. It's that mindset that needs to change.

^^^^^^
He has not abandoned plans to develop the other property. That's great that the ROW was preserved, but the two developments were never an either/or.

I did not mean to suggest that it is an either/or. My guess though is that he will probably be busy with this project for the moment instead of trying to gain permission to bifurcate a significant public Right of Way.

Unless there is a complete sell out of our City Council, one would think that any future plans for the East Bricktown site will take the rail requirements into the equation instead of trying to force ridiculous engineering modifications to how an efficient rail system would operate so that a parking garage can be built.

I am just glad he is working on something that benefits both him and the public without the overtly negative impacts from the other initial proposal.

Personally I'm not praising increased capacity; I'm excited that it will unlock quality development in other properties - including a surface lot. In fact, this development eliminates TWO surface lots, and may even cause a rethink of the lot between Chelino's and Mojo's/Biting Sow. Oh, and BTW creates 16,000 sq ft of new street front retail/commercial along Sheridan. Poor-mouthing this building is comical.

This is the way I look at it.
As I stated previously here, this will actually open up the other surface lots within it's block and the one to the East for possible development because there will be parking made available with this garage, and it's all within a very simple walking distance.

Plus, I don't think this is the most exciting project in BT, that probably goes to the Cummins Building, which deserves the praise it's receiving. I think most of us are simply seeing this project as a necessary complement to the existing "fabric" that will open up more potential.

This is the way I look at it.
As I stated previously here, this will actually open up the other surface lots within it's block and the one to the East for possible development because there will be parking made available with this garage, and it's all within a very simple walking distance.

Plus, I don't think this is the most exciting project in BT, that probably goes to the Cummins Building, which deserves the praise it's receiving. I think most of us are simply seeing this project as a necessary complement to the existing "fabric" that will open up more potential.


I believe the lot to the east has a planned hotel, approximately 10-13 stories.

Does this garage open the surface lots around the Plow up to development? There are 3 parking lots to the north, east, and west of the Plow that I'd like to see developed. Who owns those?

I believe the lot to the east has a planned hotel, approximately 10-13 stories.

So that only leaves three lots left on the West block and one on the East. I took a small snapshot on the second page that shows the area.
See, look at that, it's already working out for the benefit.

...Plus, I don't think this is the most exciting project in BT, that probably goes to the Cummins Building, which deserves the praise it's receiving. I think most of us are simply seeing this project as a necessary complement to the existing "fabric" that will open up more potential.

Agree. That's why instead of "exciting" I called it "important".

Does this garage open the surface lots around the Plow up to development? There are 3 parking lots to the north, east, and west of the Plow that I'd like to see developed. Who owns those?

The lots to the north and to the west are still owned by the Brewer family. There have been some discussion in the past regarding partnerships in redeveloping them. Interested parties would include Harding & Shelton, who own the properties to the east fronting the canal, and Richard McKown, who is renovating The Plow. Not sure how much traction there might be there in the immediate future. I'm sure it would have to be the right deal, and that has yet to be struck.

The lot to the east (across Oklahoma) has always been connected to the Kingman Building. Not 100% sure if that stayed with the building when Steve Hurst bought it. If it did, I would see a good chance of that lot eventually being developed, but I do know he would only do that if he could secure the right parking deal to go along with it. This garage MIGHT be able to serve as a part of that equation.

Park N' Ride? When you're already downtown? Yikes.

Why do you question this concept?

Any news on this garage? Any Bricktown regular knows how badly this is needed.

No building permits have been filed.

No building permits have been filed.

Nearly a year later and still no sign of progress? I assume this no longer has a pulse.

Nearly a year later and still no sign of progress? I assume this no longer has a pulse.

The slow start on the new hotel may be slowing the start on this. That would be my guess. It will definitely be needed when/if the hotel opens.

Nearly a year later and still no sign of progress? I assume this no longer has a pulse.
I thought in last week's chat that Steve said Don Karchmer had switched his focus back to the garage he once had planned at Main and Walnut. Who knows though - it seems like Karchmer doesn't know what to do.

All I know is there has been no signs of life on either of Karchmer's proposed garages.

And they would still have to submit plans to design review, etc.

Seems like we are still pretty far removed from him doing anything.

His lots still make him a ton of cash, I'm sure.

All I know is there has been no signs of life on either of Karchmer's proposed garages.

And they would still have to submit plans to design review, etc.

Seems like we are still pretty far removed from him doing anything.

You would think with the hotel across the street being a near sure thing, that it would make him more interested in fast tracking this. I'm sure an agreement with the hotel would go a long way toward adding to the profitability of a garage there.

You would think with the hotel across the street being a near sure thing, that it would make him more interested in fast tracking this. I'm sure an agreement with the hotel would go a long way toward adding to the profitability of a garage there.

They can still have an agreement for some of his surface lots.

This garage is likely not happening.

This garage is likely not happening.
Any idea what will happen instead?

Lucca knows.

What will the new Marriott do for parking?

What will the new Marriott do for parking?

Use the existing Power Alley garage or one of the many surface lots.

I'm sure they'll contract with someone.

Probably contract with the Main Street lot - which is underutilized and barely over a block away - to provide space for their valet, and offer no self-park option. Right now AC is valet only ($25 if I recall) with no self-park. Not sure if that is their long term plan but wouldn't be surprised if so.

By the way at yesterday's Downtown Developer's Luncheon one of the visiting industry experts on hand mentioned that in cities with Uber hotels are reporting a 30% decline in parking demand. The disruptive changes happening in transportation are fundamentally changing things like parking requirements, and we are just now at the precipice of these changes. As downtown continues to densify and other transportation options become available it is likely even fewer downtown hotel guests will require dedicated parking. I regularly even today speak with people who either didn't rent cars when visiting or regret renting once they find out how easy it is to get around downtown without them.