Do we know what the surcharge is yet? Is anything in place? Arizona has what amounts to basically $5 surcharge per month for solar customers. I believe this will be controlled by the CC and not the energy companies.

What they're asking the CC for is more like 15-20 a month, which seems a bit much, and I don't really understand enough about what they are describing to have a full understanding of what your bill would look like.

Solar advocates criticize OG&E's billing plan for demand charges | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/5464088)

From the article:


The demand charge would take the peak monthly electricity demand from a distributed generation customer's home in 15-minute increments. It would assess a charge of $2.68 per kilowatt of peak demand. Most households have peak usage between 6 and 8 kilowatts, meaning the charge would be between $16 and $21 for distributed generation customers.

My question would have to be what that $2.68 is actually being charged on. The power you're still pulling from the grid? The power you're selling back? If its the former (most likely by my reading), it seems like if you had a solar installation that generated enough power to fully handle your own peak usage then I'm not sure I you would end up paying anything anyway under the new rules. But that doesn't make sense as described, so I'm a bit lost.

What they're asking the CC for is more like 15-20 a month, which seems a bit much, and I don't really understand enough about what they are describing to have a full understanding of what your bill would look like.

Solar advocates criticize OG&E's billing plan for demand charges | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/5464088)

From the article:



My question would have to be what that $2.68 is actually being charged on. The power you're still pulling from the grid? The power you're selling back? If its the former (most likely by my reading), it seems like if you had a solar installation that generated enough power to fully handle your own peak usage then I'm not sure I you would end up paying anything anyway under the new rules. But that doesn't make sense as described, so I'm a bit lost.

Here's my 5 minute take and it could be wrong. The average home solar system is 5k. But it only puts out 5k during optimum conditions. Lets take two houses with 8k peak demand average and one has the 5k system. The meter is going to track the use for a month in 15 minute increments on the house with the solar system and hit them with a tariff for the maximum peak demand during the month. So one day of the month it's heavily overcast, stormy, the AC is running, the house is drawing 9 k and the solar system is only putting out 2k, the meter is going to show 7k demand for a few hours. The home owner is going to get charged that month for 7k demand tariff at $2.68 per k, in addition to paying for the electricity they used from the grid during the month. The house without the solar system pays only for the electricity they used, no tariff.

Demand meters have been used on some commercial places in a different method and it might be somewhat similar. On those commercial systems, they record the highest demand for the month and the customer is charged a rate where the higher the demand the higher the rate for each kwh used during that month.

Apologies if this is already linked up thread, but the issue of burying power lines came up on Twitter following the recent accident in Paseo and the official OG&E twitter account responded with this link:

https://www.oge.com/wps/portal/oge/about-us/our-viewpoints/oge-position-papers/

That page has a link to their position paper on buried lines.

Not advocating one way or the other, just passing it along for info.

Thank you for that information. A drunk driver apparently hit a power line and knocked out power to the paseo for upwards of 12 hours for some people. This affected over 2000 people. The guy made a stupid mistake but damn he is in a world of trouble if they seek reimbursement and damages.

I know this doesn’t happen that much but it does happen— it’s something that wouldn’t if utility lines were underground. Not mention storms bringing them down and a huge beautification factor.

A reasonable plan to bury utility lines on new road construction, full reconstruction(not simple resurfacing), and special projects to bury them in high profile districts like the Paseo. I’ll be back next year to rant about this issue again. ;)

https://freepressokc.com/the-paseo-plunged-into-darkness-over-12-hours-from-truck-pole-crash/#respond

Rant all you want you’ll just yelling a computer screen. It’s 10-15x the cost of overhead lines.

Rant all you want you’ll just yelling a computer screen. It’s 10-15x the cost of overhead lines.

Yet somehow other countries, other cities, and even OKC finds a way to do it.

^

Very, very few do it after above-ground lines have already been installed.

When I lived in Thousand Oaks, CA they spent a small fortune to bury lines along the main N/S thoroughfare (Moorpark Road) but stopped after a couple of miles because it was crazy expensive.

Most of the rest of the town still has overhead lines and T.O. is a pretty affluent community.


The best you can hope for is they are buried in new developments and that is largely the case here.

Yet somehow other countries, other cities, and even OKC finds a way to do it.

Transmission lines are very rarely buried. Which is what that guy hit.

Distribution lines are more often buried and it’s slightly more feasible.

Europe buries line at a good clip, they also pay $.50/KWhr (or basically surge pricing on smart hours as the normal rate) and don’t have brutally hot summer when they must run a huge AC.

Most people disagree with you which is why they are overhead not buried.

Thank god we now have lawmakers starting to want to have discussions about burying power lines and the typical response I’ve received from too many people on the “iTS ToO eXpEnSivE” bandwagon.

It will take money but it doesn’t have to be all done at once. The are many benefits to having underground power lines like beautification for one with the real factor not having to worry about outages as much. They can still happen but won’t be as big of an issue.

Hopefully we get a real plan and this isn’t just talk.

https://kfor.com/news/two-state-lawmakers-push-for-more-answers-on-power-restoration-in-oklahoma/

Appears that OG&E is not going to fulfill its promise of restoring everyone's power by tonight at 11pm

Still have 45,000 households still without power.

Appears there needs to be an audit of OG&E's preparedness plan. OG&E should be embarrassed.

Appears that OG&E is not going to fulfill its promise of restoring everyone's power by tonight at 11pm

Still have 45,000 households still without power.

Appears there needs to be an audit of OG&E's preparedness plan. OG&E should be embarrassed.

I think there's been a number of factors come into play. It's been an active hurricane season with hits in just the past couple of weeks so there were probably OG&E crews down there helping out. Secondly is just the shear amount tree damage done. I had all three of my trees heavily damaged by the ice. Had this happened in January, the damage wouldn't have been nearly as bad because there wouldn't have been leaves on the trees. I just got my power back on today. I lost it last Tuesday. I was getting irritated about it, but I know there were a number of factors coming into play.

About the only good thing you can say after a storm like this is that the next few ice storms and severe weather events may not cause as many outages simply due to the state having lost so much tree coverage from this one. Still though, it's a really bad situation.

I think most people would rather run the risk of 12-24 hours of inconvenience every few years over a extra $2,700 a year out of their pocket.

My damage due to overhead service line is in excess of 2700.

Is anyone here investing in generators after this? I will be in my home in Edmond and I know 2 relatives that will be as well.

Appears that OG&E is not going to fulfill its promise of restoring everyone's power by tonight at 11pm

Still have 45,000 households still without power.

Appears there needs to be an audit of OG&E's preparedness plan. OG&E should be embarrassed.

I think Mother Nature should be embarrassed for icing before leaves had a chance to fall.

Additional cost or not, between ice storms, bad Tstorms and tornadoes, no new overhead lines should be allowed when possible. I understand its cheaper at first but the cost of replacing them over the years coupled with the cost to people's lives when the power is out - now what, 3 weeks? That can damage property, food, medicine, having to move to friends and relatives houses or hotels.

Other than high tension lines, there are few overhead lines in my part of Denver and my power has only flickered in 20 years (knock on wood).

Thank god we now have lawmakers starting to want to have discussions about burying power lines and the typical response I’ve received from too many people on the “iTS ToO eXpEnSivE” bandwagon.

It will take money but it doesn’t have to be all done at once. The are many benefits to having underground power lines like beautification for one with the real factor not having to worry about outages as much. They can still happen but won’t be as big of an issue.

Hopefully we get a real plan and this isn’t just talk.

https://kfor.com/news/two-state-lawmakers-push-for-more-answers-on-power-restoration-in-oklahoma/

It is too expensive. Moan and cry all you want.

This would be like project 180 on steroids both from a complexity and cost standpoint. It would take a decade and cost billions.

For new construction it’s feasible, but to go back into existing built out neighborhoods and roads it’s not. Sewers, gas lines, etc.
Just planning a route would take a year.

It is too expensive. Moan and cry all you want.

This would be like project 180 on steroids both from a complexity and cost standpoint. It would take a decade and cost billions.

For new construction it’s feasible, but to go back into existing built out neighborhoods and roads it’s not. Sewers, gas lines, etc.
Just planning a route would take a year.

And at the end we would have a 1st world electrical grid. The money spent would stay local to OKC. Usually I am on your side, but I think you have this one wrong.

It’s probably by cheaper just to give all homeowners and backup home generator.

Or solar

Yeah, it's not feasible, and even if it was it probably wouldn't happen anyway. This city still doesn't even have dedicated right turn lanes at most major intersections lol, there's no way something as complex as burying an entire grid is ever going to happen.

The thing is we don’t have to bury the entire grid at once.

It’s probably by cheaper just to give all homeowners and backup home generator.

Not a bad thought. Maybe discounts on Tesla-type home battery systems

And at the end we would have a 1st world electrical grid. The money spent would stay local to OKC. Usually I am on your side, but I think you have this one wrong.
We already do have a 1st world grid. OGE has been a leader in smart grids and still maintains some of the lowest rates in the country.

The problem is OKC has some of the most chaotic weather in the entire world.

We already do have a 1st world grid. OGE has been a leader in smart grids and still maintains some of the lowest rates in the country.

The problem is OKC has some of the most chaotic weather in the entire world.

I think OG&E should hire you for their PR department if you already don't work there.

Another deadline missed, another excuse given. Website indicates still over 21000 households without power all most 2 weeks after the ice storm.

I think OG&E should hire you for their PR department if you already don't work there.

Another deadline missed, another excuse given. Website indicates still over 21000 households without power all most 2 weeks after the ice storm.
Yes. After the second or first worst ice storm Oklahoma has ever had. Does everyone have supplies and such stored up for once in a lifetime emergencies. I seriously doubt it.

Curious if other states sent crews to help?

Curious if other states sent crews to help?

Yes. Lots of other places. I think I heard about six states sending crews.

That's good to hear. I hadn't heard otherwise.

I saw Nebraska Public power auth. trucks in the Deer Creek area this past week.

I had 2 different crews working in backyard today. One group from Missouri another from Tennessee.

The crew from Tennessee said it took them 14 hours to get here because they had to drive a truck here at 55 MPH - the thin tops out at 64MPH. I asked him if they weren't planning to just leave it here :lol2: :lol2:

I had 2 different crews working in backyard today. One group from Missouri another from Tennessee.

The crew from Tennessee said it took them 14 hours to get here because they had to drive a truck here at 55 MPH - the thin tops out at 64MPH. I asked him if they weren't planning to just leave it here :lol2: :lol2:
I could be wrong but I think the Missouri company is Central Power. White trucks with red graphics. They've been staging in the parking lot of the church between Hideaway and lake Hefner. They sent a lot of trucks.

Somebody do a poll... which will come first, OG&E buried power lines or high speed rail from OKC to DFW (and by extension Houston)

It’s probably by cheaper just to give all homeowners and backup home generator.

And cheaper for a homeowner to buy a generator than to pay for the huge increase in bills caused by trying to bury the lines. You can buy a good one for not much more than $600.


I live near Penn Square and my street for some strange reason has buried lines while no one around me does. Still, our power went out. Almost all the lines would have to be buried before there was a large benefit to the community.

And cheaper for a homeowner to buy a generator than to pay for the huge increase in bills caused by trying to bury the lines. You can buy a good one for not much more than $600.


I live near Penn Square and my street for some strange reason has buried lines while no one around me does. Still, our power went out. Almost all the lines would have to be buried before there was a large benefit to the community.

One of my friends lives in a new development up in Edmond with all buried lines, but still was without power for a week plus as the power to the neighborhood was knocked out. While buried lines city-wide would be ideal, there is way to justify the expense when there are much better alternatives.

not everyone has the benefit (ability) to purchase and store a generator, especially those who live in apartments.

I think there is a happy median somewhere in between. Maybe burying the distribution lines to decrease he amount of possible weather damage but keeping all transmission lines above ground to save on the cost. This would narrow the focus of repair when an outage occurs and would greatly decrease the amount of time most would be out of power.

Even if that wasn't feasible, simply going in and only burying the service lines to individual structures off of the distribution lines would have slashed the outage time on this storm. The line crews were overwhelmed with hopping backyard fences in every residential neighborhood dealing with downed overheard service lines.

It wouldn't necessarily have to be an all or nothing approach. I would have to think that burying some lines could greatly reduce the time of an outage for everyone. I could be way off on this as I am definitely not an expert on the subject it just makes sense in my layman mind.

I think there is a happy median somewhere in between. Maybe burying the distribution lines to decrease he amount of possible weather damage but keeping all transmission lines above ground to save on the cost. This would narrow the focus of repair when an outage occurs and would greatly decrease the amount of time most would be out of power.

Even if that wasn't feasible, simply going in and only burying the service lines to individual structures off of the distribution lines would have slashed the outage time on this storm. The line crews were overwhelmed with hopping backyard fences in every residential neighborhood dealing with downed overheard service lines.

It wouldn't necessarily have to be an all or nothing approach. I would have to think that burying some lines could greatly reduce the time of an outage for everyone. I could be way off on this as I am definitely not an expert on the subject it just makes sense in my layman mind.
The smaller individuals structure lines might be the biggest projects. Maybe ten years ago OG&E were through our old neighborhood just replacing some overhead poles. All the fences, yards, etc. were torn up for weeks and it was months before everything really got back to normal again. Yards get cramped really quick when heavy equipment is involved.

Won't OGE just submit a rate increase to the Corp commission to recoup all the expenses related to damaged equipment and extra labor from out of state crews? Or does a state of emergency mean the FedGov is covering the bill?

I'm forgetting how this works...

Won't OGE just submit a rate increase to the Corp commission to recoup all the expenses related to damaged equipment and extra labor from out of state crews? Or does a state of emergency mean the FedGov is covering the bill?

I'm forgetting how this works...
I think I remember hearing that FEMA was getting involved and I believe some of that funding would be to cover power restoration. Not positive but I think that's included when FEMA gets involved.

The thing is we don’t have to bury the entire grid at once.

Exactly. Have a crew assigned to improving old construction, assign the appropriate engineers, and do the work over 10 or 20 or even 30 years and the work will be done eventually. Require new construction to bury wires.

I'm not sure why any of that is so complicated?

Exactly. Have a crew assigned to improving old construction, assign the appropriate engineers, and do the work over 10 or 20 or even 30 years and the work will be done eventually. Require new construction to bury wires.

I'm not sure why any of that is so complicated?

^^^^

Edit: l've always looked on this as being like this country's illogical willingness to rebuild in flood zones and rushing to construct in the parts of New Orleans below sea level.

Exactly. Have a crew assigned to improving old construction, assign the appropriate engineers, and do the work over 10 or 20 or even 30 years and the work will be done eventually. Require new construction to bury wires.

I'm not sure why any of that is so complicated?
+1000 I pains me when I see a major reconstruction project and they simply move the above ground lines to the side instead of burying them. Even more so with new construction.

I think service line burials would be feasible on a long term basis. Burying the primary voltage lines would be a nightmare, especially in older neighborhoods. A good chunk of my neighbors in Linwood have garages/sheds/gardens etc in the ROW that would need to be demolished.

What if you called OG&E and said, I want to bury my service line and I'll pay 100% of that cost. Do we think they'd do it? I kinda don't think they would, but if anybody tries that let us know how it goes.

What if you called OG&E and said, I want to bury my service line and I'll pay 100% of that cost. Do we think they'd do it? I kinda don't think they would, but if anybody tries that let us know how it goes.

You can pay to have lines buried by the utility companies.

I'm sure it's well more than $100.

They'll for sure do it, I've been meaning to for a while but after this latest storm I won't have to worry about trees for another decade.
Last I checked, it was a flat fee of $1,800. I'm not sure if that includes the reconfiguration of your meter box or if you'd need an electrician in addition to that.

What if you called OG&E and said, I want to bury my service line and I'll pay 100% of that cost. Do we think they'd do it? I kinda don't think they would, but if anybody tries that let us know how it goes.

Wouldn't have helped with our outage - the power went out on our physical block on Tue at noon, that night our neighbor's tree fell and took out 3-4 individual house lines. So when they came out, they had to fix their lines (not mine, it stayed connected), *then* they had to fix the main cause of the outage. So burying mine would not have kept my power on at all or brought it back in any shorter timeframe than it did come back on in.

They'll for sure do it, I've been meaning to for a while but after this latest storm I won't have to worry about trees for another decade.
Last I checked, it was a flat fee of $1,800. I'm not sure if that includes the reconfiguration of your meter box or if you'd need an electrician in addition to that.
You would have to have an electrician replace the meter box with the underground type, rerun the conductors into your panel from the meter socket and install the conduit going down into the ground. All of those things are the building owners responsibility.

They'll for sure do it, I've been meaning to for a while but after this latest storm I won't have to worry about trees for another decade.
Last I checked, it was a flat fee of $1,800. I'm not sure if that includes the reconfiguration of your meter box or if you'd need an electrician in addition to that.

Thanks that's helpful info. You'd think insurance companies would incentivize this as it might save them more long term.

Thanks that's helpful info. You'd think insurance companies would incentivize this as it might save them more long term.I wonder how much power outages cost insurance companies?

Referring more to ice storm induced power outages

Referring more to ice storm induced power outagesOK. I wonder how much ice storm related power outages cost insurance companies?

OGE could spend some more effort to cut trees back from the lines. If they didn't cut trees back away from the right of ways, you would eventually have a problem tree roots anyway with underground lines.

Anyway, the virus is still beats the ice storm with its economic destructiveness.

OGE could spend some more effort to cut trees back from the lines. If they didn't cut trees back away from the right of ways, you would eventually have a problem tree roots anyway with underground lines.

Anyway, the virus is still beats the ice storm with its economic destructiveness.Seldom does a week go by in the spring and summer that I don't see a crew cutting limbs away from power lines.

OGE could spend some more effort to cut trees back from the lines. If they didn't cut trees back away from the right of ways, you would eventually have a problem tree roots anyway with underground lines.

Anyway, the virus is still beats the ice storm with its economic destructiveness.

OG&E can trim all the lines they want, but that still won't help with the individual service lines to each house, which the homeowner is responsible for and which have to be checked before power is turned back on. And there is a huge amount of homeowners that won't trim those trees for a variety of reasons (personal experience with the neighbor next door that thought it was too expensive, and now she's facing insurance claims from two of her trees coming down and damaging other neighbors' property, wonder if that expense will be more than the initial cost if she had trimmed her trees?).

The city absolutely should consider a long term vision of burying as many lines as possible. The cost certainly is enormous but spread over 30 years it can be manageable. Even setting a partial goal, of say 30-40% of lines would enable faster response in other areas of the city.

I never thought about it until this thread, but where I live (Co Springs) there are very few overhead lines. The closest overhead line to me is over a half-mile away, and I don't even think it serves my neighborhood. I believe it serves a strip mall on the corner. That line is buried under the intersections, though. There are some long-distance transmission lines throughout the city, but those are quite robust. I can only think of one time I have lost power in my house, and that was for about 30 minutes during a very strong thunderstorm. I am guessing that a transformer station was struck by lightning, but the response to restore was quick. Snow and ice storms are never a worry with regards to power. While it is not as large as OKC, it certainly can be done. I would argue our ground up here is less suitable with rocky soil and a large number of trees, specifically aspens which are essentially giant 50-foot tall weeds with root systems whose reach can be measured in acres, not feet.

Finally got my power back on Day 15 and three missed restoration deadlines from OG&E. Little to no communication from them. And I'm in the core of the city, not some far-flung rural neighborhood. What a mess.

I work in the power-line business.

The ideas you guys are talking about aren't even in the hundreds of millions. It's in the billions. Burying power-lines in an urban environment is $1-$1.5 million dollars per MILE. Overhead is ranges from $25-$50k.

Paying to put solar on everyone's roof would be cheaper.

This entire thing is nonsensical.

Sold. We'll take the solar.