If this is true it will be interesting to see what Russia does.

The latest U.S. intelligence suggests that the crash of Metrojet Flight 9268 was most likely caused by a bomb on the plane planted by ISIS or an ISIS affiliate, according to a U.S. official familiar with the matter. The official stressed that there has not been a formal conclusion reached by the U.S. intelligence community. "There is a definite feeling it was an explosive device planted in luggage or somewhere on the plane," the official told CNN's Barbara Starr.

U.S. intelligence: Bomb likely brought down plane - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/04/africa/russian-plane-crash-egypt-sinai/index.html)

The cynic in me says: well, Russia wanted to participate in the middle east, looks like they're getting more of it than they expected.

The cynic in me says: well, Russia wanted to participate in the middle east, looks like they're getting more of it than they expected.

I was thinking that as well.

"The cynic in me says: well, Russia wanted to participate in the middle east, looks like they're getting more of it than they expected."
"I was thinking that as well."

Not to myself: Be Civil. Be Civil.

This was an absolute tragedy. 200+ innocent people killed in this crash which now is looking more and more like a wanton act of terror by ISIS or other Islamic extremist groups. How can either one of you post such things? Just say what I am thinking you really mean - they got what they asked for, right?

This is the same kind of rubbish that was roundly criticized as inhumane after 9/11:
"The chickens have come home to roost."
"After all the years of meddling in the Middle East, they finally got theirs."

Russia's interest in fighting radical Islam came with consequences, they knew that. But should any country really expect innocents flying to vacation on an airliner to become targets? Expect innocents to die in the Twin Towers?

I just wanted to point out the inhumanity of the words written here by the two posters. Who, btw, are otherwise fine members and I'm sure are great people. But this is exactly what the U.S. had to hear when publicly countries were saying, "Today, we're all Americans." But many were muttering under their breaths that we had it coming.

I applaud the Russian people for their commitment to fighting Islamic extremists and am horribly sorry that it now looks like innocent people have been blown out of the sky for the stand Russia has taken in Syria and elsewhere.

I'd just, as an aside, point out that we have 600 or so troops in the Sinai, based mostly in Sharm el Sheikh.

Zoo, I think it's safe to say that we all feel badly about what happened. Terrorist acts of this type are simply acts of war. The type of mentality that can fly an airplane into an office building full of civilians or can blow up a plane full of children is simply inhuman. It happened and it needs to be addressed as an act of war. Lets face it though, neither Putin, the Russians or ISIS really cares what we think on here. Its a discussion page. Neither of the posters said anything remotely close to what you portray. If you wish to grieve then please do. Don't attack others for deciding to simply discuss the facts.

Zoo, I think it's safe to say that we all feel badly about what happened. Terrorist acts of this type are simply acts of war. The type of mentality that can fly an airplane into an office building full of civilians or can blow up a plane full of children is simply inhuman. It happened and it needs to be addressed as an act of war. Lets face it though, neither Putin, the Russians or ISIS really cares what we think on here. Its a discussion page. Neither of the posters said anything remotely close to what you portray. If you wish to grieve then please do. Don't attack others for deciding to simply discuss the facts.

Mug, What's good for the goose is not good for the gander? I know it's a discussion board. I was discussing my thoughts about their attitude toward the tragedy. And it was more than just the facts. I took it as them saying, "Well, they wanted to get involved in Syria and WELCOME to the Middle East!" This is a discussion board, as you said. I should be allowed to discuss my views just like you are allowed to discuss whatever and tell me what to post and what not to post. We all don't have to agree. But, your asking me to do this and don't do that; and basically telling me that we only discuss FACTS at OKCTalk? Ha! Appreciate your thoughts. Mine are allowed too though, Mug.

I'd just, as an aside, point out that we have 600 or so troops in the Sinai, based mostly in Sharm el Sheikh.

And? Where don't we have troops? We have military bases in every crook and cranny on the planet. Maybe I missed the context of your aside or the point you were making.

Mine are allowed too though, Mug. Of course they are! I didn't say they weren't. My qualm was only that you attacked two people because they didnt show enough empathy for your taste over this apparent terrorist attack. I have no problem with anything else you said though I don't necessarily agree with it but I didnt bring that up.

Believe it or not you're all right. It is a horrible tragic event and Russia is probably getting more then they thought they would.

Getting the Russians involved may be the end of ISIS. They dont play by the rules, either.

Getting the Russians involved may be the end of ISIS. They dont play by the rules, either.

Might skyrocket oil as well

Does anyone else get the feeling that America was some what protecting ISIS in a way, or did we just not want to do anything about them?

The President wants no part of expanding our role in the middle east, no matter the consequences. He has allowed ISIS to run amok in order to try to get us out. He was dealt a hand of cards that was chosen poorly but has played them just as poorly.

Does anyone else get the feeling that America was some what protecting ISIS in a way, or did we just not want to do anything about them?

Protecting no......
If they are to be eliminated, bombing strikes will only go so far. Someone is going to have to put boots on the ground.

Does anyone else get the feeling that America was some what protecting ISIS in a way, or did we just not want to do anything about them?

No.

Getting the Russians involved may be the end of ISIS. They dont play by the rules, either.

Probably not. They suck at nation building and counterinsurgency too.

And? Where don't we have troops? We have military bases in every crook and cranny on the planet. Maybe I missed the context of your aside or the point you were making.

No, it's just a very small, low profile, peacekeeping mission. I spent a year there, and they're not well armed. I'm sure the posture has changed some, but it's treaty-regulated.

"The cynic in me says: well, Russia wanted to participate in the middle east, looks like they're getting more of it than they expected."
"I was thinking that as well."

Not to myself: Be Civil. Be Civil.

This was an absolute tragedy. 200+ innocent people killed in this crash which now is looking more and more like a wanton act of terror by ISIS or other Islamic extremist groups. How can either one of you post such things? Just say what I am thinking you really mean - they got what they asked for, right?

This is the same kind of rubbish that was roundly criticized as inhumane after 9/11:
"The chickens have come home to roost."
"After all the years of meddling in the Middle East, they finally got theirs."

Russia's interest in fighting radical Islam came with consequences, they knew that. But should any country really expect innocents flying to vacation on an airliner to become targets? Expect innocents to die in the Twin Towers?

I just wanted to point out the inhumanity of the words written here by the two posters. Who, btw, are otherwise fine members and I'm sure are great people. But this is exactly what the U.S. had to hear when publicly countries were saying, "Today, we're all Americans." But many were muttering under their breaths that we had it coming.

I applaud the Russian people for their commitment to fighting Islamic extremists and am horribly sorry that it now looks like innocent people have been blown out of the sky for the stand Russia has taken in Syria and elsewhere.

It can simultaneously be a tragedy and something that you can expect once you get involved in fighting in the middle east, especially with the sort of atrocities that ISIS has been committing for years over there on the civilian populations already in their reach. Given what they've already been up to, is it really a surprise that they view civilians of countries involved in the fighting as anything other than more targets? Personally I'm just wondering when we're going to see ISIS attacks directly against the US.

And don't kid yourself that Putin is in this purely to fight Islamic extremists. If he had a single merciful bone in his body, Ukraine wouldn't be in the state it is. Given what has come out about Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 in the analysis that the Dutch did, as far as I'm concerned Russia itself is a state sponsor of terrorism these days.

Does anyone else get the feeling that America was some what protecting ISIS in a way, or did we just not want to do anything about them?
President Obama is going to do everything he can to avoid deploying troops and going to war, it's important to him that his legacy is he got us out of the Middle East not further in. However, his rein of death hitting anything and everything with drones, might look worse one day.

That's just my opinion and observation.

President Obama is going to do everything he can to avoid deploying troops and going to war, it's important to him that his legacy is he got us out of the Middle East not further in. However, his rein of death hitting anything and everything with drones, might look worse one day.

That's just my opinion and observation.

I know what you mean but I prefer targeted strikes rather than getting more young men and women killed.

Mug, What's good for the goose is not good for the gander? I know it's a discussion board. I was discussing my thoughts about their attitude toward the tragedy. And it was more than just the facts. I took it as them saying, "Well, they wanted to get involved in Syria and WELCOME to the Middle East!" This is a discussion board, as you said. I should be allowed to discuss my views just like you are allowed to discuss whatever and tell me what to post and what not to post. We all don't have to agree. But, your asking me to do this and don't do that; and basically telling me that we only discuss FACTS at OKCTalk? Ha! Appreciate your thoughts. Mine are allowed too though, Mug.

I just took those posts as dark humor regarding the situation. Of course it's bad when someone blows up a civilian airliner. Nobody is happy that it happened, but people can express those concerns differently. Saying "well, you wanted to be more involved..." doesn't mean the poster doesn't have sympathy for the people who were killed.

Does anyone else get the feeling that America was some what protecting ISIS in a way, or did we just not want to do anything about them?

No.

President Obama is going to do everything he can to avoid deploying troops and going to war, it's important to him that his legacy is he got us out of the Middle East not further in.

Well, more than 50 troops at least...

Curious if the 50 aren't being imbedded with the anti-ISIS / Anti-Assad Syrians so the Russians won't bomb them?

Curious if the 50 aren't being imbedded with the anti-ISIS / Anti-Assad Syrians so the Russians won't bomb them?

I think you may be giving Obama too much credit. His legacy is all about getting our troops out, no matter what the cost...not the aftermath of those on our side that were left to suffer at the hands of extremists...

I'm referring to the 50 or so Special OPS that were sent into Syria announced last week.

not the aftermath of those on our side that were left to suffer at the hands of extremists...

This seems to be some sort of backhanded compliment. The U.S. has a long history of losing thousands of young men and women because we want to occupy foreign countries. When we left Vietnam, the NVA took over. When we left Iraq, ISIS took over. These are all predictable things. What is clear is we probably never should have been there in the first place. Obama's choice was between continuing to lose Americans in an effort which would prove ultimately no-win, or withdraw and cut our losses.

At least at this point, ISIS has appeared and any force which can defeat ISIS and control territory can finally bring peace to the region, or at least stability.

I'm sorry to say, but there will never be true peace in that region.

I'm sorry to say, but there will never be true peace in that region.

Putin to Obama. Lets work together and cut the snake up in little bitty pieces and be done with it.

Would a stinger missle bring down a plane at that altitude? If so , how can we rule that out , we know ISIS has hundreds of those ,that we supplied them. I read where radar doesn't always detect or pick up small missles. I don't think its to far off track.

Would a stinger missle bring down a plane at that altitude? If so , how can we rule that out , we know ISIS has hundreds of those ,that we supplied them. I read where radar doesn't always detect or pick up small missles. I don't think its to far off track.

I don't believe anything that is "shoulder fired" aka "manpads" are capable of bringing down anything cruising at higher altitudes{30-thousand plus feet}.

I'm sorry to say, but there will never be true peace in that region.

Of course there wont, and to think we can go in and wave the magic wand of democracy and sure all ills, especially those that have been around for hundreds of years or more is ignorant.

Would a stinger missle bring down a plane at that altitude? If so , how can we rule that out , we know ISIS has hundreds of those ,that we supplied them. I read where radar doesn't always detect or pick up small missles. I don't think its to far off track.

No, MANPADs have a ceiling well below that. Do you have evidence that we provided them?

Of course there wont, and to think we can go in and wave the magic wand of democracy and sure all ills, especially those that have been around for hundreds of years or more is ignorant.


True. Government has to reflect the values of the governed, and we may have to accept that western style republics and democracy may not work there, in the short run.

No, MANPADs have a ceiling well below that. Do you have evidence that we provided them?

No , those facts were buried with Ambassador Stevens, but I have no doubt that we did.

Would a stinger missle bring down a plane at that altitude? If so , how can we rule that out , we know ISIS has hundreds of those ,that we supplied them. I read where radar doesn't always detect or pick up small missles. I don't think its to far off track.

We did supply the Mujahideen with Stingers during the Soviet invasion in the 80s, then attempted to get them all back in a "buy back" program if memory serves correct. At the time we didn't get all of the Stingers back and which no doubt fell into the hands of ner-do-wells.

No , those facts were buried with Ambassador Stevens, but I have no doubt that we did.

If we were, he wouldn't be the one doing it, nor the only one who knew. I'm guessing you're unaware that the state department isn't a branch of the military and doesn't have their own heavy weapons. For now, I'll just assume you're making s$*t up, or just parroting things people forward you in emails.

We did supply the Mujahideen with Stingers during the Soviet invasion in the 80s, then attempted to get them all back in a "buy back" program if memory serves correct. At the time we didn't get all of the Stingers back and which no doubt fell into the hands of ner-do-wells.


And there are accounts that more recently, Qatar gave the Taliban stingers and other weapons that were intended for other theatres.

If we were, he wouldn't be the one doing it, nor the only one who knew. I'm guessing you're unaware that the state department isn't a branch of the military and doesn't have their own heavy weapons. For now, I'll just assume you're making s$*t up, or just parroting things people forward you in emails.

Clinton in here own testimony said Stevens was overseeing a flotilla of weapons to Syrian rebel forces. Thats not made up!

Clinton in here own testimony said Stevens was overseeing a flotilla of weapons to Syrian rebel forces. Thats not made up!

Actually, in response to Rep Pompeo, she said that she was not aware of that. Do you have a transcript that says otherwise? You also said that knowledge would have died with Ambassador Stevens, then immediately contradicted yourself. Can you be consistent?

Actually, in response to Rep Pompeo, she said that she was not aware of that. Do you have a transcript that says otherwise? You also said that knowledge would have died with Ambassador Stevens, then immediately contradicted yourself. Can you be consistent?
Can you be civil?

Can you be civil?

I can if you can offer something that makes sense. You're just hurling accusations with little or no basis in fact.

Breaking news: Clinton had Ron Brown and ambassador stevens put on the plane and had it blown up just so she could have them killed again to keep them from "telling what they know" again.

With the Clintons, if you know something, they'll just keep killing you.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3307741/Rocket-attack-UK-tour-jet.html&ved=0CB0QFjABahUKEwjNjvD55IPJAhVIRIgKHfO8D3Y&usg=AFQjCNGRsnMAtSXwUyJnUmOfBTVVQWKtiQ

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3307741/Rocket-attack-UK-tour-jet.html&ved=0CB0QFjABahUKEwjNjvD55IPJAhVIRIgKHfO8D3Y&usg=AFQjCNGRsnMAtSXwUyJnUmOfBTVVQWKtiQ

and that proves what?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3307741/Rocket-attack-UK-tour-jet.html&ved=0CB0QFjABahUKEwjNjvD55IPJAhVIRIgKHfO8D3Y&usg=AFQjCNGRsnMAtSXwUyJnUmOfBTVVQWKtiQ

It's crazy that we are just hearing about this, but the one that did go down was probably a bomb, rather than a missile. The shoulder-fired stuff doesn't typically reach 20,000 feet and higher.

Also, there has been a history of a fairly low-intensity insurgency on the Sinai, including some rocket attacks on Sharm el Sheikh, an IED or two, and miscellaneous small arms attacks on police and foreign troops.

It's crazy that we are just hearing about this, but the one that did go down was probably a bomb, rather than a missile. The shoulder-fired stuff doesn't typically reach 20,000 feet and higher.

Also, there has been a history of a fairly low-intensity insurgency on the Sinai, including some rocket attacks on Sharm el Sheikh, an IED or two, and miscellaneous small arms attacks on police and foreign troops.

Not sure why they would keep something like this to themselves, I mean it might make a difference in someone traveling or not to that part of the world.... And as far as ISIS is concerned how do we know they don't have larger weapons with the capabilities, i mean didn't the pretty take over a country or two's entire military equipment , including loads of our we just left....

Not sure why they would keep something like this to themselves, I mean it might make a difference in someone traveling or not to that part of the world.... And as far as ISIS is concerned how do we know they don't have larger weapons with the capabilities, i mean didn't the pretty take over a country or two's entire military equipment , including loads of our we just left....

And most of their equipment is horribly dated. Assault Rifles that are older than I am, as well as a line of battle tanks that are no match for our Abrams line of tanks. As far as AA goes they have some Stingers as well as some platform Soviet stuff that again is dated. Again I believe their conventional weapons are dated or hand me downs{little inside USMC joke}, I would be more worried about any N.B.C. weapons they may get ahold of.

Not sure why they would keep something like this to themselves, I mean it might make a difference in someone traveling or not to that part of the world.... And as far as ISIS is concerned how do we know they don't have larger weapons with the capabilities, i mean didn't the pretty take over a country or two's entire military equipment , including loads of our we just left....

True, but the Sinai is not Syria, and something like a BUK (what took out the Malaysian jet over the Ukraine) is probably not within ISIS's Sinai chapter's experience or something they even have. No, I wouldn't fly a jet over Syria or Iraq, either....

BREAKING:RT
A homemade bomb with the equivalent of up to 1.5 kilos of TNT was detonated on board the A321 plane, Bortnikov said.