I personally know someone that bought a house and closed a couple weeks ago in this area. Her house is directly in the path, and yes she is someone that just saw new house, glazed over, and said I'll take it. Hadn't even heard about extending the turnpike. She is most definitely one of those people in her own little world.

wow... if she was working with a realtor, then she must not have been working with a very good one. while it's understandable that this lady wouldn't have known about the extension, her realtor has no excuse for not knowing and advising her accordingly. -M

^^^ Why isn't the research included in the title search. The buyer is paying good money for it. I can understand that the average citizen may miss future plans for a highway ROW someday, but with the resources that are available to realtors, title companies, and financial institutions, someone should have known.

wow... if she was working with a realtor, then she must not have been working with a very good one. while it's understandable that this lady wouldn't have known about the extension, her realtor has no excuse for not knowing and advising her accordingly. -M

Yeah she worked with a realtor. I talked with a friend of mine who is a realtor and he said wouldn't be surprised if people start trying to sue some of these realtors. He works out of a Coldwell Banker office and they've known about this for a long time. Will be interesting to see what happens.

Really terrible - so the state is going to ruin hundreds of people's lives, if not thousands - all because I-40 is congested for an hour a day? So unbelievably stupid. Almost as dumb as the boulevard.

Really terrible - so the state is going to ruin hundreds of people's lives, if not thousands - all because I-40 is congested for an hour a day? So unbelievably stupid. Almost as dumb as the boulevard.

So your solution is to build no more roads, ever? People keep moving in, but you don't build a road. The city expands, but you don't build a road. If you don't build roads, maybe all the icky people will stop moving in, but nope. They keep right on moving in. What do you think this attitude will get you in five years?

No need to be philosophical about it, just go to Austin and see with your own eyes what that attitude will get you. Now suddenly your 'hundreds or even thousands' which is really more like dozens really IS hundreds, thousands, hundred of thousands, affected DAILY.

Really terrible - so the state is going to ruin hundreds of people's lives, if not thousands - all because I-40 is congested for an hour a day? So unbelievably stupid. Almost as dumb as the boulevard.

How is this going to ruin lives?

Have a negative impact? Sure. Really anger people? You bet. But ruin lives? Hundreds?

^^^^^^^^^^^
Probably referring to people who would be forced to move from homes where they have lived for years - perhaps decades - and created lives for themselves. It might be a little hyperbolic, but from that standpoint it's not a totally inaccurate statement.

nm

^^^^^^^^^^^
Probably referring to people who would be forced to move from homes where they have lived for years - perhaps decades - and created lives for themselves. It might be a little hyperbolic, but from that standpoint it's not a totally inaccurate statement.

Yet he wouldn't be saying that if this was for a light-rail project somewhere in the metro.

Anyhow, it isn't going to ruin anyones life. It will cause temporary grief which will go away in a year. People find a new home and they make new memories there. Nothing last forever.

It actually kind of sucks getting to WRWA from the west side of town especially during heavier traffic. All roads southbound from I-40 west of I-44 to the airport have some form of construction going on. This will be great for west side access, plus it will actually relieve I-40 to a degree.

Anyhow, it isn't going to ruin anyones life. It will cause temporary grief which will go away in a year. People find a new home and they make new memories there. Nothing last forever.

I'm all for this, but lets be clear, eminent domain is a necessary evil. But it is an evil. There are people who may not have the finances to move. There may be people who will be forced to sell land that has been in their family for generations, or will see a house built by their grandfather destroyed. It's an unfortunate necessity of progress, but to callously dismiss them and this lost as something to get over? That's cold. I know this route is only a few miles from where my great uncle's house is. He built that house back in the 50s. He passed away a few years ago, but I'm trying to imagine the impact if he was still alive, and the route came through his place. In his 90's, still raising horses, and other livestock, suddenly having to leave the place he he had lived in for almost 70 years. Probably would have killed him.

I'll add to what Jerrywall said. For some of those families, school districts might have to be changed if they can't relocate in their existing district and aren't able to get open transfers for the next school year. That could certainly alter lives and cause maybe more-than-temporary grief.

Yet he wouldn't be saying that if this was for a light-rail project somewhere in the metro.

Anyhow, it isn't going to ruin anyones life. It will cause temporary grief which will go away in a year. People find a new home and they make new memories there. Nothing last forever.

PluPan?.... Have you ever bought property of your own?. Have you ever worked all of your life, started out small, maybe with an apartment, or small rent house, you worked hard all your life, maybe raising a family, trying to put together a little nest egg. You move up the ladder, and buy your first home, then later buy your dream property, away from town with some room around you, where neighbors aren't right on top of you. You work and sweat, and make it a place to enjoy and be proud of. The fruits of your years of hard work, where you're kids grew up and now bring their kids. ........

Your still young yet. I wish you well when you've made your way down the line, and built your life, and then find out you're being forced to move. You're loosing your place to the new highway that's coming through. .....

But it's ok. You'll get over it in a year.

I'm all for this, but lets be clear, eminent domain is a necessary evil. But it is an evil. There are people who may not have the finances to move. There may be people who will be forced to sell land that has been in their family for generations, or will see a house built by their grandfather destroyed. It's an unfortunate necessity of progress, but to callously dismiss them and this lost as something to get over? That's cold. I know this route is only a few miles from where my great uncle's house is. He built that house back in the 50s. He passed away a few years ago, but I'm trying to imagine the impact if he was still alive, and the route came through his place. In his 90's, still raising horses, and other livestock, suddenly having to leave the place he he had lived in for almost 70 years. Probably would have killed him.That's all very fair and I wouldn't disagree with you.

I'm not trying to just say they'll get over it even though ultimately that is what I am implying, I know there is more to it than that. I'm just saying that destroying lives seems like a hyperbole.

PluPan?.... Have you ever bought property?. Have you ever worked all of your life, started out small, maybe with an apartment, or small rent house, you worked hard all your life, maybe raising a family, trying to put together a little nest egg. You move up the ladder, and buy your first home, then later buy your dream property, away from town with some room around you, where neighbors aren't right on top of you. You work and sweat, and make it a place to enjoy and be proud of. The fruits of your years of hard work, where you kids grew up and now bring their kids. ........

Your still young yet. I wish you well when you've made your way down the line, and built your life, and then find out you're being forced to move. You're loosing your place to the new highway that's coming through. .....

But it's ok. You'll get over it in a year.
Well, everyone is different and I don't know what the universe has in store for me in the future, but I can assure you my life won't be destroyed if I discover a highway is coming through and house will be dozed. I will be very pissed off, upset for a little while, but my life isn't over.

My point was that in 5 years I'm sure all of these people will be settled in somewhere else and they won't be that upset about it. Some still might be sad when they drive by which is understandable, but I doubt they will be grieving for as long as they exist.

I think the truth, as is often the case, is somewhere in the middle. Will thousands of lives be 'ruined'? Ha. Pull the other one, it has bells on. Is it something to just laugh off? No, real people are going to be inconvenienced, to varying degrees. It may not be quite as simple as just buying a house somewhere else.

While I don't want to speak for anyone else, I think the "deal with it" attitude was just a reaction to the "Hundreds...no, THOUSANDS of lives will be ruined. RUINED! OH GOD WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" attitude. It's a fact, people move all the time. Sometimes they even have to change schools, and by 'sometimes' I mean it happens every day. Every single one of us went to school and at some point, met a new kid who had moved, or WAS the new kid ourselves when our families moved. Sometimes this happened in the summer, but sometimes it happened in the middle of the school year. While in the 6th grade this was tremendously horrible and something we would never recover from...NEVER!...later we're able to look back and see across the years that we were able to adapt and survive.

As usual, I'm digressing, so I might as well do it a bit more. Speaking of 6th grade, I recall Mustang famously had an S-curve on Mustang road between 15th and Reno. It wasn't a gentle curve either, and there were trees, the visibility was literally zero and yet people crossed that line every time, because the turn was just that tight. The owner of the land was very stubborn and refused to give up a tiny bit of land to straighten the road. Eventually, he died. His heirs, who had to traverse that road themselves, sold so damn fast it was almost funny. Now, years later, people barely even remember that curve.

Things change. We adapt. That's what we do. There's no reason to get hysterical about it, but it also shouldn't be taken lightly. Again, somewhere in the middle.

^^^Great way to put it!

So your solution is to build no more roads, ever? People keep moving in, but you don't build a road. The city expands, but you don't build a road. If you don't build roads, maybe all the icky people will stop moving in, but nope. They keep right on moving in. What do you think this attitude will get you in five years?

No need to be philosophical about it, just go to Austin and see with your own eyes what that attitude will get you. Now suddenly your 'hundreds or even thousands' which is really more like dozens really IS hundreds, thousands, hundred of thousands, affected DAILY.

Are you seriously implying that we don't have enough roads in the OKC metro? You're joking right? I forget where the stat was mentioned, but I think Sid or JTF posted that the OKC metro area right up there with the best of them in terms of road-miles per area, and per population. It's great that we're growing. No need to grow our sprawl and spend millions building completely unnecessary roads that will cost even more to maintain. Not when we can't even keep our schools open 5 days a week. Insanity.

Are you seriously implying that we don't have enough roads in the OKC metro? You're joking right? I forget where the stat was mentioned, but I think Sid or JTF posted that the OKC metro area right up there with the best of them in terms of road-miles per area, and per population. It's great that we're growing. No need to grow our sprawl and spend millions building completely unnecessary roads that will cost even more to maintain. Not when we can't even keep our schools open 5 days a week. Insanity.

I thought this was OTA. Paid for by those that drive on it ?

I thought this was OTA. Paid for by those that drive on it ?

Hey! No fair trying to confuse the "Roads are bad, mmkay?" crowd with factual information!

Don't be a simpleton. Tolls may pay for the roads construction and maintenance, but the costs associated with this road will go far beyond just the initial construction and maintenance.

Don't be a simpleton. Tolls may pay for the roads construction and maintenance, but the costs associated with this road will go far beyond just the initial construction and maintenance.

OK, I'll bite..... what do you consider to be "Costs associated with this road"?

I'll bite too. What does Bill think the costs are going to be and I would like to see more solid numbers as well. I will be surprised if there are any major costs if any at all seeing as this highway is being 100% funded by the OTA. That means any roads affected by this will be paid for by the OTA as well. I don't think they are going to come into Mustang and make them pay for a road that needs to be moved. Same thing with utilities. I am willing to bet they have funds for utility relocation's as well.

I think the truth, as is often the case, is somewhere in the middle. Will thousands of lives be 'ruined'? Ha. Pull the other one, it has bells on. Is it something to just laugh off? No, real people are going to be inconvenienced, to varying degrees. It may not be quite as simple as just buying a house somewhere else.

While I don't want to speak for anyone else, I think the "deal with it" attitude was just a reaction to the "Hundreds...no, THOUSANDS of lives will be ruined. RUINED! OH GOD WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" attitude. It's a fact, people move all the time. Sometimes they even have to change schools, and by 'sometimes' I mean it happens every day. Every single one of us went to school and at some point, met a new kid who had moved, or WAS the new kid ourselves when our families moved. Sometimes this happened in the summer, but sometimes it happened in the middle of the school year. While in the 6th grade this was tremendously horrible and something we would never recover from...NEVER!...later we're able to look back and see across the years that we were able to adapt and survive.

As usual, I'm digressing, so I might as well do it a bit more. Speaking of 6th grade, I recall Mustang famously had an S-curve on Mustang road between 15th and Reno. It wasn't a gentle curve either, and there were trees, the visibility was literally zero and yet people crossed that line every time, because the turn was just that tight. The owner of the land was very stubborn and refused to give up a tiny bit of land to straighten the road. Eventually, he died. His heirs, who had to traverse that road themselves, sold so damn fast it was almost funny. Now, years later, people barely even remember that curve.

Things change. We adapt. That's what we do. There's no reason to get hysterical about it, but it also shouldn't be taken lightly. Again, somewhere in the middle.

I agree. This is well said. I know change is inevitable, and the world keeps turning. I just have trouble with the cavalier attitude by many who have nothing to do with the part of the county where the highway is being proposed, and will probably rarely use it even after it is built. I do believe they would be singing a different song if they were directly affected.

Yes, it's not the be all to end all, their lives won't be over and people will move on. But big changes are in store for a lot of folks and it shouldn't be taken lightly. Hopefully it works out well for everyone affected.

Since we are on the topic of sprawl...here is a map from DFW's MPO showing the major roadway recommendations for the DFW metroplex. THIS is unending sprawl....OKC thinks they have it bad, look down here. :-(

12506

OK, I'll bite..... what do you consider to be "Costs associated with this road"?

The same costs have been talked about endlessly on this website and covered extensively on others. This toll road will have environmental costs, public health costs, and governmental costs that will have to be accounted for once all the little strip malls and McCaleb homes get built around the turnpike.

While I don't want to speak for anyone else, I think the "deal with it" attitude was just a reaction to the "Hundreds...no, THOUSANDS of lives will be ruined. RUINED! OH GOD WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" attitude. It's a fact, people move all the time. Sometimes they even have to change schools, and by 'sometimes' I mean it happens every day. Every single one of us went to school and at some point, met a new kid who had moved, or WAS the new kid ourselves when our families moved. Sometimes this happened in the summer, but sometimes it happened in the middle of the school year. While in the 6th grade this was tremendously horrible and something we would never recover from...NEVER!...later we're able to look back and see across the years that we were able to adapt and survive.

I hope you weren't directing this at me, but it would appear you were. My one and only post in this thread was simply to point out that another--perhaps not thought about by many people--consequence of the relocation of those people is that there might be some kids displaced to other schools. There was nothing hysterical about what I wrote. Just making an observation.

I'm not a suburbanite. Hell, we live downtown. And actually I'm not terribly sympathetic about this situation. In general, my philosophy has been that if you choose to live out in the country near undeveloped land, that you're subjecting yourself to the possibility that something will be developed near you that you don't like. But it does suck for those people, and as a human being, I can see where it'd have the potential to negatively affect their lives, at least for a while.

I hope you weren't directing this at me, but it would appear you were.

I was not, and I apologize if you feel I was calling you hysterical. What I am calling hysterical, in both senses of the word, is the claim that 'thousands' of lives will be 'ruined'. The moving while in school may have been an unfortunate example to choose, but I was basing it on my life, not on your post. My family moved to Oklahoma in the summer between 4th and 5th grade. At the time, this was horrible. My life was 'ruined'. Decades later, it looks like I found a way to survive.

^^^^^

Gotcha, thanks.

You know, moving *is* hard, even if it's voluntary. We moved just before Christmas, and our 9-year old balked at first. And she didn't even have to change schools. She just didn't want to disrupt her routine. The house we moved from was the only house in which she'd ever lived. But you know what? She LOVES it here now. She's got half the second floor, tons of space, and she thinks it's super-cool to be within easy walking distance of both uptown-23rd and downtown. Kids are resilient, for sure!

When we were buying a house about 16 years ago we wanted to build in eastern Okla county however the lack of a major freeway connecting us to the metro was what drove us away. Now that there will be a freeway through there, we'll look hard out that way to upgrade our housing situation. I couldn't stand having to take two-lane roads with stop signs every mile -- every day -- to get anywhere.

The same costs have been talked about endlessly on this website and covered extensively on others. This toll road will have environmental costs, public health costs, and governmental costs that will have to be accounted for once all the little strip malls and McCaleb homes get built around the turnpike.

Also something to consider.....

I cannot image this new road will have anywhere close to enough traffic (and thus toll revenue) for some time to cover its costs. It will almost certainly be subsidized by revenue that other roads generate, which means higher tolls overall as wells as deferred maintenance on busier roads like the Turner Turnpike.

Also something to consider.....

I cannot image this new road will have anywhere close to enough traffic (and thus toll revenue) for some time to cover its costs. It will almost certainly be subsidized by revenue that other roads generate, which means higher tolls overall as wells as deferred maintenance on busier roads like the Turner Turnpike.

Turner has been subsidizing the entire state road system, for years.

The Kilpatrick is pretty well loaded up during the morning and evening rush, it wouldn't surprise me to see this southwest extension get a lot of traffic that is Dallas bound. It may take a spell, but I wouldn't be surprised a few years after it opens.

Also something to consider.....

I cannot image this new road will have anywhere close to enough traffic (and thus toll revenue) for some time to cover its costs. It will almost certainly be subsidized by revenue that other roads generate, which means higher tolls overall as wells as deferred maintenance on busier roads like the Turner Turnpike.

Exactly. There are just a number of other improvements that the turnpike system needs before we expand it to rural eastern Oklahoma county.

Can we get this stupid anti road sentiment out of every thread please? It's almost like in every other thread you have people complaining "oh this isn't walkable enough" or "oh lets narrow that street" or "this highway is going to destroy lives and encourage sprawl" I mean we have heard you the first 3 million f@cking times. Can we please keep this discussion to updates regarding this highway's progress.

This tollroad is being built. There is nothing anyone is going to do about it at this point. It needs to be built to serve the community. If you disagree please go start a thread and bitch about it somewhere else.

Exactly. There are just a number of other improvements that the turnpike system needs before we expand it to rural eastern Oklahoma county.

I usually stay out of things when they get heated like this but oh well... If you consider this area "rural" then I am going to assume that it has been sometime since you have been out this way. The Mustang school district is growing like crazy and the countless new neighborhoods going up in the area should be a sign that the area is growing fast. The only Rural area still left in a 2-3 miles of the proposed route is the mile between Sarah and Morgan and 44th and 59th which is all owned by one guy.

^^ Eastern Okla county still has plenty of rural left. Western Okla county, not so much anymore.

I usually stay out of things when they get heated like this but oh well... If you consider this area "rural" then I am going to assume that it has been sometime since you have been out this way. The Mustang school district is growing like crazy and the countless new neighborhoods going up in the area should be a sign that the area is growing fast. The only Rural area still left in a 2-3 miles of the proposed route is the mile between Sarah and Morgan and 44th and 59th which is all owned by one guy.

Eastern Oklahoma County != Eastern Canadian County. The Mustang spur is not rural. The Eastern Oklahoma County spur is very much so.

Eastern Oklahoma County != Eastern Canadian County. The Mustang spur is not rural. The Eastern Oklahoma County spur is very much so.


The more roads the better IMO. Eastern Ok County takes forever to get anywhere and a Turn Pike can not come soon enough IMO. This is progress.

The same costs have been talked about endlessly on this website and covered extensively on others. This toll road will have environmental costs, public health costs, and governmental costs that will have to be accounted for once all the little strip malls and McCaleb homes get built around the turnpike.

So for those of us that don't feel like perusing 16 pages of senseless data, please give solid examples of these and how much they will cost. Not imaginary numbers from your head but factual data.

1) Environmental Costs -

2) Public Health Costs -

3) Governmental Costs -

Go!

They announced the final alignment for the Eastern County segment.

Driving Forward OK (http://www.drivingforwardok.com/#!Northeast-Oklahoma-County-Loop-Design-Alignment-Announced/tgcb1/570ff44a0cf2e66d024e6085)

They announced the final alignment for the Eastern County segment.

Driving Forward OK (http://www.drivingforwardok.com/#!Northeast-Oklahoma-County-Loop-Design-Alignment-Announced/tgcb1/570ff44a0cf2e66d024e6085)

I am not a road hater, but that is a horribly stupid waste of resources. Bad infrastructure now is much worse in the long run than good infrastructure later.

From north to south, it skips 7 section roads before the first interchange and then 6 more before the next one. In ~19 miles, it is going to have 4 interchanges. This just further proves this highway is not for the locals.

Also look at those massive traffic counts out there, a whole 4800 cars on Peebly Road. Heck I-40 is only at 45,500 right there, Sooner Road and I-240 is higher than that. I will bet money that this highway will not break 7,000 cars a day in its first year and will not break 10,000 for a decade. This is the wrong highway design in the wrong location.

The Kilpatrick & 74 and 77 interchanges should be completed long before this turnpike is built.

I am not sure about the traffic counts for the first year. I will be surprised if they exceed 10k. In a decade, I bet they surpass 10k within the next 5-7 years. The OKC metro is growing fast. Time will tell.

As far as the interchanges, it is still considered a rural area. I never expected a ton of interchanges. It is funny to see some complain about sprawl and others complain about the lack of interchanges in one thread.

As far as the traffic counts, 4,800 cars doesn't seem like that low of number for that road.

I disagree that this is a waste of resources. I am satisfied with everything the OTA has proposed so far other than I wish they would have extended the HE Bailey Spur all the way to the new turnpike to I-35, but I understand why they didn't. It would be very costly and probably would have pushed this over a billion dollars because I would assume if they did that they would have had to propose another project in Tulsa or else they would be bitching that they got the short end of the stick which in actuality, they even did with the current proposals.

The HE Bailey Spur has very low traffic counts, but it's in the middle of fning nowhere and not connected to anything. Connect it from I-40 to I-44 to I-35, I bet you see traffic counts go up almost instantly.

One other thing I do NOT like about the OTA is their inability to build good interchanges. I don't even know where to start. The Kilpatrick and I-35 interchange absolutely sucks and needs to be torn down and rebuilt differently and it was just built not that long ago. Will be interested to see how they design the Kilpatrick/I-40 interchange.

PluPan, the Kilpatrick/I-35 exchange was built back in like 1989. That's pretty old. Same goes for the Hefner Parkway Interchange. I know this cause my stepdad was foreman on the Kilpatrick.

Oh wow. I didn't know it was that old. If so they did a good job on building it... designing it, not so much.

I am not a road hater, but that is a horribly stupid waste of resources. Bad infrastructure now is much worse in the long run than good infrastructure later.

From north to south, it skips 7 section roads before the first interchange and then 6 more before the next one. In ~19 miles, it is going to have 4 interchanges.

I'm laughing so hard I'm afraid i might pee myself. It did NOT take long to change from "This is stupid! There's only going to be one interchange!" to "This is stupid! There's not an interchange at every street!". You people are a real piece of work.

You're a big boy. You can google it for yourself. There's a whole hell of a lot more than 16 pages about the costs associated with unwarranted roads.

Several folks on here stating the road is not warranted, anytime prior to a highway being built there is millions of dollars in traffic and environmental studies done prior to choosing a route. I trust those studies more than the opinions of a couple of armchair anti-transportation engineers on this thread. :fighting4

Several folks on here stating the road is not warranted, anytime prior to a highway being built there is millions of dollars in traffic and environmental studies done prior to choosing a route. I trust those studies more than the opinions of a couple of armchair anti-transportation engineers on this thread. :fighting4

And those studies are never led by biased individuals or entities or benefit people with vested interests in certain outcomes. Similar perhaps to a home builder leading the turnpike authority. Or a former asphalt lobbyist leading ODOT. But it's clear some posters don't like to let facts get in the way.

I'm laughing so hard I'm afraid i might pee myself. It did NOT take long to change from "This is stupid! There's only going to be one interchange!" to "This is stupid! There's not an interchange at every street!". You people are a real piece of work.

Considering we are completely different people, it may make sense we have different opinions.

Tell me, when has the OTA ever gone back and added interchanges after initial construction? This design will saddle that area with a terrible, cheap design for decades. I just can't stand that ODOT and the OTA continue to build incomplete infrastructure to save 10% on cost. And they never come back to finish it later.

I think the location is stupid and there are much more deserving locations that would give much higher traffic counts, but if you are going to do it, do it right.

Tell me, when has the OTA ever gone back and added interchanges after initial construction?
They do it all the time. They just wrapped up on the I-44 for the Luther interchange with ODOT and they are planning another one if I remember correctly for the HE Bailey Spur.

Considering we are completely different people, it may make sense we have different opinions.

Tell me, when has the OTA ever gone back and added interchanges after initial construction? This design will saddle that area with a terrible, cheap design for decades. I just can't stand that ODOT and the OTA continue to build incomplete infrastructure to save 10% on cost. And they never come back to finish it later.

I think the location is stupid and there are much more deserving locations that would give much higher traffic counts, but if you are going to do it, do it right.

Not to be indifferent, but they are adding a Luther interchange as we speak on the Turner. Last year they finished up an off ramp at Wellston. It happens more than we think, but demand caused it.

Oh oops.... lol The conversation I was following was about the western extension

They do it all the time. They just wrapped up on the I-44 for the Luther interchange with ODOT and they are planning another one if I remember correctly for the HE Bailey Spur.

They do it occasionally, I'd hardly say it is all the time. I was really thinking about the inner-city turnpikes like Kirkpatrick and the Creek, where I don't recall them ever adding interchanges to.

I've also heard that they plan to eliminate many of the planned interchanges on the Gilcrease. At the end of the day, the OTA builds roads to make money, not provide good local infrastructure. Which considering I am a pro-infrastructure and efficiency guy, I have issues with the philosophy.

And those studies are never led by biased individuals or entities or benefit people with vested interests in certain outcomes. Similar perhaps to a home builder leading the turnpike authority. Or a former asphalt lobbyist leading ODOT. But it's clear some posters don't like to let facts get in the way.

Exactly!!! Why not just BS the numbers and say 50000 cars the first year? Those traffic numbers are completely fabricated. Always have been, always will be.

At the end of the day, the OTA builds roads to make money, not provide good local infrastructure..

I'm not sure I'd agree. The OTA is different than in other states, where there are toll roads built and managed by private, for profit companies.

You're a big boy. You can google it for yourself. There's a whole hell of a lot more than 16 pages about the costs associated with unwarranted roads.

I'm referring to this thread but OK Bill...

I'll assume you can't point out legit numbers so your POV is nothing but personal hatred for turnpikes.

I can't wait til both of these segments are built!

And those studies are never led by biased individuals or entities or benefit people with vested interests in certain outcomes. Similar perhaps to a home builder leading the turnpike authority. Or a former asphalt lobbyist leading ODOT. But it's clear some posters don't like to let facts get in the way.

And yet you can't provide the facts...smh...

I'm referring to this thread but OK Bill...

I'll assume you can't point out legit numbers so your POV is nothing but personal hatred for turnpikes.

I can't wait til both of these segments are built!

It has nothing to do with personal hatred for turnpikes. There are countless sources for you to investigate and see the data showing how much damage unneeded roads cause. Turnpikes serve a purpose and I'm in favor of expanding toll roads intelligently and I actually think that interstates should be converted to toll roads. I have no problem with tolling the roads to keep up with maintenance and expansion. I fully expect states are going to see more of this in the future. My problem with this eastern OK extension has everything to do with the necessity and placement. Would there be such an urgent need to alleviate I-35 traffic if it wasn't 2 lanes from I-44 to ~ 23rd St.? Or what if there were better interchanges as supposed to having both left and right entrance/exit ramps and cloverleafs major junctions? There's so many other things they could do to improve mobility before building a turnpike through Choctaw.

And yet you can't provide the facts...smh...

I listed two examples in the post you quoted Einstein.

I would rather the OTA concentrate on their unfinshed projects like completing the US 77 / Kilpatrick and SH 74/ Kilpatrick interchanges before taking on more projects like the unnecessary eastern loop.