I started to craft multiple responses to that, but then I figured, why bother - NW Exp isn't getting meaningful mass transit in my lifetime anyhow.

I started to craft multiple responses to that, but then I figured, why bother - NW Exp isn't getting meaningful mass transit in my lifetime anyhow.

of course because you know better than anyone else here right?

I started to craft multiple responses to that, but then I figured, why bother - NW Exp isn't getting meaningful mass transit in my lifetime anyhow.

With that type of attitude it won't.

I am not a huge fan of sprawl, but it is what it is. Real human beings live in it, and the benefits of mass fixed-rail transit extend well beyond the core.

With that type of attitude it won't.

I am not a huge fan of sprawl, but it is what it is. Real human beings live in it, and the benefits of mass fixed-rail transit extend well beyond the core.

Correct me if I am wrong, but my guess is Portland has two things currently in place that OKC doesn't that makes mass transit to the suburbs feasible. First, traffic there is probably bad enough to make commuting by car a headache. Most people won't use mass transit as long as its easier to commute by car and in 2015 in OKC, I would imagine relatively few people would take the train instead of their car to get from NW Expressway and 63rd to downtown. Secondly, Portland probably has a compact and urban downtown with all the amenities one would need once you get there, all within walking distance or a streetcar ride.

OKC is probably about 20-25 years out from being there. With that said, now is the time to start laying foundations and getting things into place so such a system can be built when the time is right. I think first, streetcar service should be extended up Classen to the Chesapeake campus and a commuter rail line added to/from Will Rogers World Airport.

Lines to Tinker, Edmond, Norman, and NW Expressway can be added as the demand is there.

Correct me if I am wrong, but my guess is Portland has two things currently in place that OKC doesn't that makes mass transit to the suburbs feasible. First, traffic there is probably bad enough to make commuting by car a headache. Most people won't use mass transit as long as its easier to commute by car and in 2015 in OKC, I would imagine relatively few people would take the train instead of their car to get from NW Expressway and 63rd to downtown. Secondly, Portland probably has a compact and urban downtown with all the amenities one would need once you get there, all within walking distance or a streetcar ride.

OKC is probably about 20-25 years out from being there. With that said, now is the time to start laying foundations and getting things into place so such a system can be built when the time is right. I think first, streetcar service should be extended up Classen to the Chesapeake campus and a commuter rail line added to/from Will Rogers World Airport.

Lines to Tinker, Edmond, Norman, and NW Expressway can be added as the demand is there.

Portland's system was 20+ years in the making. I am benefiting from the result of 20 plus years of work. My point is, in order to be where Portland is today, it will take 20-25 years if we started tomorrow morning.

OKC 2040 = Portland 2015. Think about that. If we wait 25 years to get started, we will be 50 years behind Portland.

I'm confused. We talk about wanting to serve and build up more of the overall city with transit. What other corridors are more important than NW Expwy? Classen to NW Expwy has always sounded like a slam-dunk to me.

NW Expwy could be decent and support high-frequency LRT with a little retrofitting.

A commute down NW Expressway is already pretty harrowing in 2015. I'll bet a lot of people out there would opt for rail if given a chance. The trick is finding a way to more densely cluster some population around the stops. Right now most neighborhoods nearby are set back from NWE a mile or more. Sprawl retrofit of the commercial centers lining the street and TOD make lots of sense there.

MAPS 4 absolutely needs to be focused on transit infrastructure.

We need to make serious, substantial investments in rail transit, bus shelters, sidewalks, bike routes, and other public transit fixed infrastructure.

I appreciate that an RTA is in the development process, but we need to do more than that. We need to get light rail going. Commuter rail is a nice start, but we need to identify some key corridors and get light rail started.

You can get to the west side with a light rail line straight down Reno. It can terminus at the Outlet Shoppes.

You can get to the airport with a line that connects to the Reno line, straight down Meridian. You can get to the NW side via Classen and NW Expressway. We can access the inner NE side via the Adventure Line, we have the ROW and an existing rail line. We can access the south side via Shields. We can get to the east side via SE29th and hit MWC in the process.

We need to say, "this is our rail transit plan" and start working on it. I have chosen key corridors, most with wide ROW and large medians that can facilitate putting tracks down the middle of. (Reno, Shields, NW Expwy, Classen). All have major business or leisure destinations along or at the end of them, save for the blue line on the southside, which I suspect would be primarily park and ride driven while serving the SE Latino community.

https://i.gyazo.com/1cb2ea91fe58316e4d20eac3d1aa58d3.png

The current Embark routes on the NW side would interface pretty well with that with a little modification. They run north/south from about NW16th to about NW 63rd at Classen, May, and Portland, crossing or really close to NW Highway. Part of Meridian is covered. If those were adjusted at the north end and extended at the south end to meet with rail stops at both the north and south ends, Reno/NW Highway, that whole side of the city would have great coverage.

I would extend all of it on out to Council and run connecting bus routes north and south on Rockwell and Council, especially when we get Bethany on board.

http://embarkok.com/assets/files/maps/EMBARK_SystemMap_4282014.pdf

NW Expwy could be decent and support high-frequency LRT with a little retrofitting.

I'm all for this. The problem is that it is still "controlled" by ODOT. Even the BRT concepts released lately have their fingerprints on them.

A commute down NW Expressway is already pretty harrowing in 2015. I'll bet a lot of people out there would opt for rail if given a chance. The trick is finding a way to more densely cluster some population around the stops. Right now most neighborhoods nearby are set back from NWE a mile or more. Sprawl retrofit of the commercial centers lining the street and TOD make lots of sense there.

Every time I go over there, I think about how it's too bad that the area is as sprawled out as it is. I'd love to see that area be retrofitted into a more urban layout.

Even the BRT concepts released lately have their fingerprints on them.

What do you mean by this?

Well first, "true "BRT" has exclusive lanes and absolute signal priority. You are essentially treating a bus like a train. It has a built in advantage as being treated as a High Occupancy Vehicle.

I never thought we would get this as long as ODOT is involved. Their priority is automobile movement. Apparently, they retain some sort of tangential control over NW Expressway even though the City is largely involved in maintaining the roadway and should have some degree of influence on how the greater Right-of-Way can be used.

On it's face, I think the planners want to give the bus precedence. It seems though that the way the BRT is highlighted on Classen is much more subdued on NW Expressway. On Classen, they are proposed an exclusive bus lane that is painted. On NW Expressway, the only precedence is the isolated stops. It is operating without visual preference in mixed traffic.

If you study the plans carefully, it is obvious that the planners are working with much more flexibility in the city controlled areas versus the ODOT controlled areas in trying to give the bus an advantage over cars.

With all that stated, express bus needs to happen. This would be an easy transit project that Maps 4 Neighborhoods or the GO Bond could fund.

My point largely reflects that installing light rail up NW Expressway would be my preference, but you are already seeing the obstacles given to BRT. It is illustrative of the challenges that remain to sweeping change to concepts like light rail.

I will be writing on these more and I will be fighting for a key items in the next few months that remove some of these obstacles to better transit.

Though it has been swallowed up by the city, NW Expressway remains a state highway. It is SH3, the longest highway in Oklahoma, stretching from SE Oklahoma to the tip of the panhandle.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Ok-3_path.png/580px-Ok-3_path.png

Every time I go over there, I think about how it's too bad that the area is as sprawled out as it is. I'd love to see that area be retrofitted into a more urban layout.

The problem is that the retro-fitting has to come first or mass transit will fall on its face, and the cost to retro-fit NWE is cost prohibitive and would take decades. Since this area will eventaul suffer the abandonment all sprawl succums to we don't have decades. It really is a day late and a dollar short. MAPS for neighborhoods should probably focus on sprawl retirement and prairie restoration.

If rail extends up Classen to the PennSq/Bell Isle shopping area at some point, then a later extension up NWE to May would be a good extension. No chance it goes farther up NWE than May. NWE and May area is not in the doomsday decline JTF would like to see happen, it is actually doing quite well. May from NWE to Britton is seeing lots of investement and development with people investing greatly in updating and extending existing housing.

Sorry to break it to JTF, but OKC isn't in a death spiral.

I think going up to NWE and May could work. From May over to Lake Hefner Parkway and from 50th up to 63rd could be refitted into a very nice urban district. If we extended a light rail line up there, that would need to be part of the deal -- rezone it and begin retrofitting the area.

People are saying that OKC is 20 years behind other cities that have installed rail systems. I would have to probably agree. However, mass transit systems dont get put in over a 6 month period. It may take 20 years to plan, gather cash and start building. From my experience with living in Dallas and Denver is 1) dont install too many stations 2) make parking as convenient as possible and 3) encourage private developments at stations so the developers build the stations as part of their urban centers. The old school of thought is the transit lines hurt property values and are noisy. The reality is exactly the opposite.

Peace out Rover.

If we want rail going up NW Expressway then a major transportation station needs to be located on the NW or SW block of NW/Expressway and Classen. We can't run the tram under I-44 going to CHK and ignore the intersection. Acquiring the land probably needs to be a part of MAPS 4 or absolute priority of the RTA. It needs to be rolled into the cost of the line we run from downtown to 63rd/Western.

And it could go a LONG way toward retrofitting the Belle Isle to be more urban.

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/general-civic-issues/11417d1441062557-maps-4-neighborhoods-screen-shot-2015-08-31-6.07.54-pm.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/general-civic-issues/11418d1441062559-maps-4-neighborhoods-screen-shot-2015-08-31-6.07.35-pm.jpg

OKC clearly needs to find out ways to subsidize garages in places like the Wal-Mart/Nord-Rack/Babies-R-US/etc parking lots, so that the land can then be used to retrofit the area. And a retrofit will have a far great chance at success if there is a station that connects to the core and another major area of employment throughout the city.

I say that because I think BRT is going to have to prove to be successful along NW Expressway before the city ever really considers running rail that direction, and BRT is not going to be successful if there is not a quality connectivity point for transfer service into the rail system.

If we want rail going up NW Expressway then a major transportation station needs to be located on the NW or SW block of NW/Expressway and Classen. We can't run the tram under I-44 going to CHK and ignore the intersection. Acquiring the land probably needs to be a part of MAPS 4 or absolute priority of the RTA. It needs to be rolled into the cost of the line we run from downtown to 63rd/Western.

And it could go a LONG way toward retrofitting the Belle Isle to be more urban.

OKC clearly needs to find out ways to subsidize garages in places like the Wal-Mart/Nord-Rack/Babies-R-US/etc parking lots, so that the land can then be used to retrofit the area. And a retrofit will have a far great chance at success if there is a station that connects to the core and another major area of employment throughout the city.

The first look we had at a potential layout seemed to have (if I am remembering correctly) some kind of station, of some sort, at Northwest Expressway and Blackwelder. Would that be used for transfers and such?

I mean, I suppose that could be done, but if we put it at NWX & Classen, then the Classen route has direct service and anything that goes up NW Expressway would have direct service as well. I don't think you would lay tracks up to Blackwelder from Classen.

But honestly, I'm thinking of this being a big-time station on the NW corner: 6 to 10 stories (American Fidelity on the other side of Classen is 6 stories) The bottom floor would be the station, and floors 1 and 2 could have restaurant/retail.

The rest would be office and/or residential, and a Garage would be built behind Milagros that serves the Station, Milagros, and IHOP so that the parking lots that front Classen could be retrofitted with more retail.

Evidently there is some sort of article today. This from twitter.

MAPS 4 ideas move ahead without direction from city officials | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2016/01/07/maps-4-ideas-move-ahead-without-direction-from-city-officials-general-news/?platform=hootsuite)

Speaking of Maps 4,

What if we had a section for flights? Subsidize 10 new routes to 10 new cities. Subsidies for 2 years to build to the route. The ones that grow and make profit the airlines will likely keep once the subsidy expires. The aviation guys on the board will have much more creative ways to get it done then I.

Evidently there is some sort of article today. This from twitter.

MAPS 4 ideas move ahead without direction from city officials | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2016/01/07/maps-4-ideas-move-ahead-without-direction-from-city-officials-general-news/?platform=hootsuite)
MAPS 4 ideas move ahead without direction from city officials

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record January 7, 2016 1 Comment

OKLAHOMA CITY – The grass-roots momentum for the next tax-funded package of citywide improvement projects under the MAPS banner has surprised city officials, but they’re not complaining.

Early ideas for the next Metropolitan Area Projects have coalesced around a theme that seems to be a reaction against MAPS 3, which included $777 million to build a 70-acre city park, a larger convention center, riverside improvements and several other projects. Participants are calling the new movement MAPS 4 Neighborhoods, organizer Jonathon Dodson said, because it places less emphasis on the central part of the city and more on community connectivity, health and culture.

“Our goal is to have half of funds in our next MAPS go specifically towards neighborhoods across the city,” the group’s Facebook profile states. “We’re looking for new ideas, great ideas. This is just a start to get us talking about what we want to see. Join in the conversation.”

Dodson said projects being discussed at community meetings include more sidewalks, beautification, bike lanes, an expanded bus system, school menus and public spaces. And most of the energy is coming from neighborhood associations, he said.

A City Hall spokeswoman expressed concern this week that the MAPS 4 Neighborhoods movement’s promotional materials might be misconstrued as being sanctioned by the municipal government.

Frequent MAPS 4 Neighborhoods community meetings are well-organized, and announcements carry a professionally designed color logo. The next meeting is scheduled for 6 p.m. Jan. 11 at Ralph Ellison Library, 2000 NE 23rd St.

But Mayor Mick Cornett said he is OK with that, and he wants to see how the effort pans out. The process to collectively define bond issue goals is taking off in the same manner as MAPS 3, although this time it’s not receiving direction from public officials.

“At this point, no idea is a bad idea,” Cornett said. “If you remember, with MAPS 3 we asked for input and we got 1,800 ideas submitted. We want as inclusive a process as we can. And to the extent that they want to get in front and put their ideas in place first, I think that’s healthy.”

Cornett also pointed out that the current MAPS projects aren’t close to being finished yet, so the timeline leading to the next bond issue is likely to be years long.

Voters passed the original MAPS plan in 1993 as a temporary 1-cent sales tax, later extending it six months to reach a $350 million target. Projects included construction of the Bricktown Canal and renovations to what’s now known as the Cox Convention Center.

In 2001, voters came back and supported OCMAPS, also called MAPS for Kids, to raise $700 million for school district infrastructure improvements. In 2009, residents approved MAPS 3 to raise $777 million.

Speaking of Maps 4,

What if we had a section for flights? Subsidize 10 new routes to 10 new cities. Subsidies for 2 years to build to the route. The ones that grow and make profit the airlines will likely keep once the subsidy expires. The aviation guys on the board will have much more creative ways to get it done then I.

Nah, Im good. MAPS should be for typical capital projects, tangible things, but not for subsidizing something that the market cant sustain itself. Because you arent going to "build" demand for a plane route. Essentially this would be taking taxpayer money and giving it to an airline. Ill take arenas, streetcars, and new schools over plane routes that dont have much demand.

Completely opposed to any sort of airline subsidy. Oklahoma already went down that road with Great Plains Airlines...the result was not good.

Nah, Im good. MAPS should be for typical capital projects, tangible things, but not for subsidizing something that the market cant sustain itself. Because you arent going to "build" demand for a plane route. Essentially this would be taking taxpayer money and giving it to an airline. Ill take arenas, streetcars, and new schools over plane routes that dont have much demand.

Actually, it's proven that nonstop service actually does build demand on a route. It's called market stimulation.

But MAPS is not the right vehicle to use for airline subsidies.

Completely opposed to any sort of airline subsidy. Oklahoma already went down that road with Great Plains Airlines...the result was not good.

It's different to offer a route subsidy to a network carrier that is stable. Great Plains was a startup airline that didn't work. An important distinction to make.

Half & Half

Oklahoma City proper has over 600 sq. miles. You could let each quadrant or ward decide how they want to spend $100/$50 million @ 4-8 quadrants/wards which would account for $400 million on MAPS IV, a 7 year - $800 million package collection.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/maps/wardmap2009.jpg

The other $400 million could be used to spend on other items.

The problem with that is you begin to divide the money up into smaller and smaller amounts. The Wards would then have to evenly divide it up between neighborhoods and districts. The result is very small improvements over a broad area.

With MAPS you need to come out with a pretty detailed plan. The City says... If we approve this amount, we can build this, this, and that. And we end up getting a large focused improvement where the whole city benefits as a collective.

And who decides? What education/experience should the deciders have? Gathering places are what make neighborhoods desirable. But the good ones are old retail clusters that are being revitalized. To have walkability you have to have places to walk to. How do you create those with MAPS money? At best you would need large districts to each create something or the money is so watered down that there is no impact.

The City already offers subsidies to airlines - just sayin.

I was just curious if it's something people would maybe support no need to get into a big fuss, I have no power in any of this.

You would have to pass a $2 billion dollar plus MAPS project to remotely address all the needs that would make an impact. Let the neighborhoods or Wards decide. This city was neglected for 3 decades (1960-90) before we passed the first MAPS I in 1993.

What we do know is this:

You're not going to rectify 3 decades of of neglect in one MAPS initiative; to continue the MAPS momentum, you going to have to have more projects included (bundled).

MAPS Timeline:

MAPS I Five year $350 million penny sales tax collection. The MAPS sales tax passed with 54 percent of the vote. December 1998 MAPS tax extension 67 percent approving a six-month extension.

MAPS II (2001 - Seven year, MAPS for Kids) $700 million. The Maps for Kids sales tax and bond issue were approved with 60 percent of the vote.


MAPS for HOOPS - 2008 (6 month extension), Oklahoma City voters in 2008 approved another extension of the penny sales tax to pay for $121 million in Ford Center improvements needed to please the NBA. Improvements are under way. The city’s first big league team, the NBA’s Oklahoma City Thunder, now calls Ford Center home--67 percent approving a six-month extension of the MAPS tax.

MAPS III (2009) Seven year, $777 million. 54 percent supporting MAPS 3

History of the MAPS projects TIMELINE timeline | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/3454837)

Half & Half

Oklahoma City proper has over 600 sq. miles. You could let each quadrant or ward decide how they want to spend $100/$50 million @ 4-8 quadrants/wards which would account for $400 million on MAPS IV, a 7 year - $800 million package collection.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/maps/wardmap2009.jpg

The other $400 million could be used to spend on other items.

It's not that big of a deal, but I think this is an old map of the ward boundaries.

We are forgetting about the next GO Bond which is a larger budget than MAPS. Perhaps each councilor needs to develop, in consultation with their constituents and the planning department, a master plan or development framework for their Ward. We already have sector plans on file for most areas of the city. MAPS 4 Neighborhoods and the GO Bond can then use those as a guide for improvements that are both large capital projects as well as more basic infrastructure.

Another approach would be to invest in each of the commercial district revitalization programs which would include Uptown, Western Avenue, NE 23rd, Windsor District, NW 10th street, Capitol Hill, and probably a few others I have forgotten.

We are forgetting about the next GO Bond which is a larger budget than MAPS.

Not necessarily larger. Council has the option of doing a shorter term bond election, thereby issuing fewer bonds and lowering the amount. They debated a bit last time about 5, 7, or 10 years (IIRC), and settled on 10 years. They can also increase or decrease the millage rate to change the amount offered within that time frame. The 2007 GOB Election was approximately $760.5M, which isn't that much more than Maps 3 ($750M projected). I'm intentionally ignored the $75M in the 2007 GOB that was assigned to economic development, since it's not strictly capital-improvement related.

Regardless, I think your approach is pretty good.

Another approach would be to invest in each of the commercial district revitalization programs which would include Uptown, Western Avenue, NE 23rd, Windsor District, NW 10th street, Capitol Hill, and probably a few others I have forgotten.

This to me is the only MAPS for Neighborhoods plan that makes sense. Britton could also be targeted, although if we get rail transit it will likely be revitalized, as it is close to what would be a likely stop. But if you look, the areas mentioned all have old commercial buildings easy to revitalize, all of which likely arose pre-car culture. It is going to be extremely difficult to change the post 60s neighborhoods to areas like this, unless we arbitrarily pick the closest strip mall and Disney-fi it. People now want what we had pre-car, and the newer neighborhoods may suffer for it. I don't see that we have enough money to make a difference. I think investing in mass transit is a better approach, which might incentivize developers to invest at major transit nodes.

This to me is the only MAPS for Neighborhoods plan that makes sense. Britton could also be targeted, although if we get rail transit it will likely be revitalized, as it is close to what would be a likely stop. But if you look, the areas mentioned all have old commercial buildings easy to revitalize, all of which likely arose pre-car culture. It is going to be extremely difficult to change the post 60s neighborhoods to areas like this, unless we arbitrarily pick the closest strip mall and Disney-fi it. People now want what we had pre-car, and the newer neighborhoods may suffer for it. I don't see that we have enough money to make a difference. I think investing in mass transit is a better approach, which might incentivize developers to invest at major transit nodes.

Focus on the Urban Commercial, Transit Oriented, and Regional District areas...?

http://planokc.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/LUTA_Map_20150611.pdf

This to me is the only MAPS for Neighborhoods plan that makes sense. Britton could also be targeted, although if we get rail transit it will likely be revitalized, as it is close to what would be a likely stop. But if you look, the areas mentioned all have old commercial buildings easy to revitalize, all of which likely arose pre-car culture. It is going to be extremely difficult to change the post 60s neighborhoods to areas like this, unless we arbitrarily pick the closest strip mall and Disney-fi it. People now want what we had pre-car, and the newer neighborhoods may suffer for it. I don't see that we have enough money to make a difference. I think investing in mass transit is a better approach, which might incentivize developers to invest at major transit nodes.
Might? It def will. Although mass transit will be on maps5 after everyone sees what the street car does. The growth in AA is going to blow everyone away.

Another approach would be to invest in each of the commercial district revitalization programs which would include Uptown, Western Avenue, NE 23rd, Windsor District, NW 10th street, Capitol Hill, and probably a few others I have forgotten.

I could definitely get behind this.

The MAPS 4 Neighborhoods idea that a lot of people are throwing around simply spreads the money too thin to make a real impact.

Might? It def will. Although mass transit will be on maps5 after everyone sees what the street car does. The growth in AA is going to blow everyone away.

MAPS 5 is 20+ years away. If we wait that long for better transit, we will fall dramatically farther behind other cities than we already have. MAPS4 needs to be about transit, and perhaps each major stop needs an amenity or incentive funding for development.

MAPS 5 is 20+ years away. If we wait that long for better transit, we will fall dramatically farther behind other cities than we already have. MAPS4 needs to be about transit, and perhaps each major stop needs an amenity or incentive funding for development.
Yeah that's not gonna happen.

If it's 20 years out at that point mass transit is going to have serious competition with self driving cars and a smart street system that all cars communicate together through the road networks and the car finds the quickest most efficient route home.

Yeah that's not gonna happen.

If it's 20 years out at that point mass transit is going to have serious competition with self driving cars and a smart street system that all cars communicate together through the road networks and the car finds the quickest most efficient route home.

Maybe if the cars participate in Uber pool. Otherwise, self-driving cars do nothing to eliminate congestion and/or contribute to cleaner air and less energy consumption. They are not a magical solution to traffic or pollution problems.

Maybe if the cars participate in Uber pool. Otherwise, self-driving cars do nothing to eliminate congestion and/or contribute to cleaner air and less energy consumption. They are not a magical solution to traffic or pollution problems.
Your cars wifi connects to the city wide street system, analyzes where the traffic is and determines the quickest route home. It's not much different then what a mapping system does now, except for since all the cars will be self driving it'll alleviate the human errors of driving. Like cutting people off when the left lane ends, not overloading a particular street, merging will be efficient as the cars on the freeway communicate with the on ramping cars to create space, etc etc.

That sounds a lot easier and more doable then trying to make a sprawl city urban.

Basically induced demand will be dead because your car would know X intersection is at its traffic capacity seek alternative route.

Could take 40 years though. Youd need an entire generation change in thinking to shift to, "I don't need to drive, I've got a car for that." The grey hairs in society will be its my right to drive blah blah

Yeah I'm thinking it will be a long road to get there. You're not going to have the super efficiency with people driving around the automated cars, so I think for the first 10 years it will really be more of a luxury thing.

I wonder how long it will be until certain roads and highways are banned for "human" driving. I am venturing to guess major intercity highways and roads would have manual driving banned at least during rush hour down the line.

It's going to be interesting. I think the first fully autonomous cars come online this year or next year. 2017 Mercedes C Class has an autonomous mode.

The grey hairs in society will be its my right to drive blah blah

Gopokes,
This "Grey Hair" guy would love to have a self driving car. I could enjoy more than two beers, my macular degeneration wouldn't prevent me from "driving" my self driving car. I just wish they would hurry up because I think I'm close to the end of my driving days.
C. T.

Gopokes,
This "Grey Hair" guy would love to have a self driving car. I could enjoy more than two beers, my macular degeneration wouldn't prevent me from "driving" my self driving car. I just wish they would hurry up because I think I'm close to the end of my driving days.
C. T.

When Audi can build a self driving race car that runs 150mph on a road course, you're not far off from getting your wish.....check this video out if you haven't seen it before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol3g7i64RAI

I went to their meeting the other night at The Ralph Ellison Library. It was well attended. Very politically smart of them to start in Councilman Pettis' Ward 7. I am not sure if that move was strategic. Regardless, really good move to help their objectives gain traction.

Personally, I'm much more interested in a "someone other than me" driven train. Self driving cars do nothing to change living patterns or promote urbanism, they do nothing to ameliorate the isolation our society has created for itself, they do nothing to decrease infrastructure, they do nothing to improve air quality. I think they're an improvement over people driven cars, most likely, but nothing more.

Future MAPS timeline if we stay on current 7 year (collection cycle) schedule:

Our timeline might look like this:

MAPS III (Current 7 year, $777 million) expires December 2017; with a vote probably the first week of that month to approve MAPS IV.

MAPS IV collection begin December 2017 for estimated 7 year, $850 million package expiring around December 2024--then MAPS V a massive $1 billion projects vote.

Where are we now:


MAPS I - $350 million
MAPS for Kids - $512 million for OKC's portion of $700 million area schools' package.
MAPS for HOOPS - $100 million (6 month extension--Ford Center upgrades/NBA practice facility)
MAPS III - $777 million (current collections)

Some MAPS (build-as-you collect) projects have a completion overlap of 3-4 years into the next MAPS' collection cycle. Hope these turn out to be future conservative figures.

^^^^^^^
There was no six month extension on the arena upgrades and practice facility initiative. The only extension during the history of MAPS was with the very first installment, to cover a projected shortfall that threatened the initial construction of the arena itself. The extension was passed by a vote of the people in 1998.

In case this hasn't been posted; bunch of meetings planned in the various council districts to receive community input:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/maps4a.jpg

Gopokes,
This "Grey Hair" guy would love to have a self driving car. I could enjoy more than two beers, my macular degeneration wouldn't prevent me from "driving" my self driving car. I just wish they would hurry up because I think I'm close to the end of my driving days.
C. T.

True true. Think of it like email. There was a chunk of society that refused to embrace it, but they changed eventually. Now after 20 years, it's 100% necessary and everyone has it.
Same thing will happen with cars. In 20 years self driving cars will be common but there will be a chunk of society that refuses to adopt it, but 20 years after that the person driving will be the unsafe un-insurable weirdo who is driving by hand. (Some cities might even make it illegal.)

Personally, I'm much more interested in a "someone other than me" driven train. Self driving cars do nothing to change living patterns or promote urbanism, they do nothing to ameliorate the isolation our society has created for itself, they do nothing to decrease infrastructure, they do nothing to improve air quality. I think they're an improvement over people driven cars, most likely, but nothing more.

But the assumption here is that people will all want to live urban. Which is never going to be the case. And urbanism would lose the infrastructure/traffic argument because self driving cars would alleviate traffic problems. Gasoline cars aren't going to be around forever, hydrogen cars are coming and the air humidity will pick up. (Hydrogen cars emit H2O)

If society doesn't want to change living patterns they won't, and self driving cars will be a boost for suburban lifestyle.

But the assumption here is that people will all want to live urban. Which is never going to be the case. And urbanism would lose the infrastructure/traffic argument because self driving cars would alleviate traffic problems. Gasoline cars aren't going to be around forever, hydrogen cars are coming and the air humidity will pick up. (Hydrogen cars emit H2O)

If society doesn't want to change living patterns they won't, and self driving cars will be a boost for suburban lifestyle.

Of course all people will not want to live in urban areas. But saying some won't should not be an excuse to refrain from investing in mass transit. Oklahoma City, without significant improvement in existing mass transit, will have difficulty competing with cities who already have such investment. In addition, not everyone will be able to afford a self-driving car, and they will still require investments in roads and bridges, with associated upkeep.

Does anyone know if they plan to hold community forums outside of the core?

Does anyone know if they plan to hold community forums outside of the core?

Tulakes is near NW 63rd and Rockwell.

Tulakes is near NW 63rd and Rockwell.

in what's starting to resemble a war zone in some of those apartment complexes.