The odds are good that GE moves to Texas or Florida or someplace with better weather and a “more pro-business environment,"….

Oklahoma needs to move toward getting in this ball game and develop its own more pro-business environment. Maybe we don’t land a GE but would help our existing business grow and help with the relocations of smaller corporations to our state that could grow.

But this is what high taxes do….. They drive away the creation of wealth and all its benefits.

GE Stock Declining on Possible Headquarters Move After Connecticut Approves Tax Hike - TheStreet (http://www.thestreet.com/story/13177015/1/ge-stock-declining-on-possible-headquarters-move-after-connecticut-approves-tax-hike.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO)

NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- Shares of General Electric (GE - Get Report) are falling 0.06% to $27.25 on reports that the company may explore moving its headquarters after Connecticut passed a budget that includes $1.2 billion in tax increases for some of the state's biggest corporations, Reuters reported.

On Wednesday, lawmakers approved a $40 billion biannual budget, CNBC.com reported. The budget would increase business taxes by around $500 million over two years, Reuters pointed out. The measures, extend a 20% surcharge on corporate tax, and introduce a tax on group-wide income even if it originates out of state.

CEO Jeff Immelt sent an email yesterday to GE's Connecticut employees saying that he had asked the team to examine the company's options to relocate the headquarters to a state with a "more pro-business environment," according to Reuters. He claimed GE's state taxes have increased five times since 2011.

"I believe we should pay our fair share and that all of us should give back to our communities. But, we can compare Connecticut with other states where small and large businesses have a better environment to thrive and compete," Immelt wrote in the email, CNBC.com noted.

GE currently has about 5,700 employees in Connecticut.

I agree. I wish OKC could be in the game for just a small percentage of these huge corporate relocations currently flooding into Dallas, Houston, and Austin. For a small market like OKC, just landing one or two of them would be a complete game changer.

OKC needs to go full frontal and show GE all the goods. What could it hurt?

How much more pro-business can OKC possibly be?

Press Release: General Electric's Ten Year Tax Rate Only Two Percent | Tax Justice Blog (http://www.ctj.org/taxjusticedigest/archive/2012/02/press_release_general_electric.php#.UT3erNFNZsq)

General Electric Paid Only Two Percent Federal Income Tax Rate Over the Past Decade, Citizens for Tax Justice Analysis Finds; Actual Payments Were Probably Lower

Washington, DC – General Electric’s (GE) annual SEC 10-K filing for 2011 (filed February 24, 2012) reveals that the company paid at most two percent of its $80.2 billion in U.S. pretax profits in federal income taxes over the last 10 years.

Following revelations in March 2011 that GE paid no federal income taxes in 2010 and in fact enjoyed $3.3 billion in net tax benefits, GE told AFP (3/29/2011), “GE did not pay US federal taxes last year because we did not owe any.” But don’t worry, GE told Dow Jones Newswires (3/28/2011), “our 2011 tax rate is slated to return to more normal levels with GE Capital’s recovery.”

As it turns out, however, in 2011 GE’s effective federal income tax rate was only 11.3 percent, less than a third the official 35 percent corporate tax rate.

Imagination at Work? GE Once Again Pays Less Than 1% in Federal Taxes | Tax Justice Blog (http://www.taxjusticeblog.org/archive/2015/03/imagination_at_work_ge_once_ag.php) 3-3-2015

Is attracting a tax parasite the best thing for Oklahoma to be going after?

Cry me a river. It would be nice if these so called "corporations are people" paid in taxes what real people do.

Cry me a river. It would be nice if these so called "corporations are people" paid in taxes what real people do.

Maybe we could have no state income tax if corporations were paying the actual effective rate they should be paying.

Lol shares are falling .06% on news. That's just bad reporting.

You could put together a MASSIVE tax package to get GE and still make money.

GE has revenue of 147 billion. That's 14 times the size of Devon. It is a massive company. We'd probably have to build another terminal at the airport simply to handle their air traffic alone.

Good news is because the shareholders meeting was here okc is on their radar. If they don't come here it won't be because of a lack of exposure. If they moved to Dallas (most likely) or Austin (probably second option) they are still close and we could still continue to get more jobs here.

Bad news. They aren't going anywhere. It's a threat so Conn writes them a loophole and exempts them.

Oh and stop whining about GE taking every tax advantage they can find. (Unless of course you leave off some tax deductible items to pay a little more cause you're such a great guy). It's ultimately the governments responsibility to write the tax code, not GE's.

Calling out the hypocrisy of GE claiming they are over taxed is not whining. Sorry, I don't have a battery of lawyers exercising "free speech" for me by campaigning for tax breaks while whining , dining, and contributing to super pacs.

How much more pro-business can OKC possibly be?
Oklahoma could improve its corporate business environment by huge amounts…. and there is no doubt about this…….

On something like this Oklahoma really isn’t even competitive and IMHO it’s in large part due to the fact that we do not provide across the board funding for the higher education sciences at competitive levels…

Oklahoma has way too many duplicate and near worthless degree programs that should be shut down with the funding switched to degree programs such as engineering that corporations like GE want.

Oklahoma could improve its corporate business environment by huge amounts…. and there is no doubt about this…….

On something like this Oklahoma really isn’t even competitive and IMHO it’s in large part due to the fact that we do not provide across the board funding for the higher education sciences at competitive levels…

Oklahoma has way too many duplicate and near worthless degree programs that should be shut down with the funding switched to degree programs such as engineering that corporations like GE want.

Which degree programs should be shut down?

This just in for those who think the State will make back the incentive money - GE is moving because they don't want to pay taxes. If they wanted to pay taxes they would just stay in CT.

This just in for those who think the State will make back the incentive money - GE is moving because they don't want to pay taxes. If they wanted to pay taxes they would just stay in CT.

If I remember correctly they have been a perennial top five on ability to structure their business in such a way to pay practically no tax, I am guessing the issue may be the laws are now closing some loopholes previously available.

Even if GE as a company manages to work its tax situation very favorably for itself, I suspect that the amount of personal income tax and sales tax paid by their employees is not insignificant in the slightest. Not to mention the amount of income such a population would be spending in an area simply to live there.

Even if GE as a company manages to work its tax situation very favorably for itself, I suspect that the amount of personal income tax and sales tax paid by their employees is not insignificant in the slightest. Not to mention the amount of income such a population would be spending in an area simply to live there.

It does, which is why most mid to large relocation get some level of subsidy, possibly even why they are letting the word get out to solicit offers. Though it is not uncommon for the employee numbers to come in well under (or at least the low end) of projected job numbers. Plus if governments are not careful some parts may either be relocated or departments downsized long before the subsidies end.

A recent article that comes to mind was a Seattle writer was talking about how poorly Seattle's recent deal with Boeing was, grudgingly praising some of our deals, I can not remember if he outright mentioned how some of our claw-back measures were but they certainly would have helped in parts of the worst part of their deal. I think our proximity to Texas kind of forced Oklahoma's hand on going in aggressively early on incentives and having done that learned some painful experiences on how to at least put in some reasonable protection measures for when deals go bad.

Even if GE as a company manages to work its tax situation very favorably for itself, I suspect that the amount of personal income tax and sales tax paid by their employees is not insignificant in the slightest. Not to mention the amount of income such a population would be spending in an area simply to live there.

I worked in Greenwich and Stamford,CT and had a lot of GE Execs for clients. Believe me, the state of CT makes billions in personal taxes off these folks. Also, i will say, GE and its employees are highly woven into Fairfield county and have been for decades. If the HQ is moved, it will just be the sign and a few token employees. More likely there will be little future growth i CT and more ops set up elsewhere like GE is doing here and Boeing is doing. OKCs job is to show we can handle things that arent oil and gas related.

Calling out the hypocrisy of GE claiming they are over taxed is not whining. Sorry, I don't have a battery of lawyers exercising "free speech" for me by campaigning for tax breaks while whining , dining, and contributing to super pacs.

See what your doing right there, most would call that whining because you don't have the same advantages they do. You are holding the wrong people responsible. It's the government who writes the tax code, not GE. GE just takes advantage as I'm sure you do on your taxes. Sure the amounts are different but you have the exact same attitude they do. Since you aren't the tax morality god you don't get to decide when a corp or person has too much money and shouldn't use the tax code to their advantage. In a way you're the real hypocrite.

Of course you won't hold the government responsible for their complete incompetatance. that goes against the liberal dogma that the government has a clue what it's doing and a force good.

I seriously doubt the State of Connecticut is making billion off employee taxes. They only have 5,700 employees in the State and you can bet you backside that the high paid corporate executives have done everything in their power to structured their compensation to avoid as much taxation as possible.

See what your doing right there, most would call that whining because you don't have the same advantages they do. You are holding the wrong people responsible. It's the government who writes the tax code, not GE. GE just takes advantage as I'm sure you do on your taxes. Sure the amounts are different but you have the exact same attitude they do. Since you aren't the tax morality god you don't get to decide when a corp or person has too much money and shouldn't use the tax code to their advantage. In a way you're the real hypocrite.

Of course you won't hold the government responsible for their complete incompetatance. that goes against the liberal dogma that the government has a clue what it's doing and a force good.
What you are doing is deftly changing the argument that GE is full of it when claiming to be overtaxed. When it is shown that GE is engaged in hypocritical whining about being overtaxed, you become a corporate apologist claiming "you would do it to if you had their advantages". What I would do or would not do, does not shield GE from being called out for a hypocritical argument. Instead of calling me a whiner, refute the claim that GE is in fact not avoiding taxes is in fact paying more than they should and as a consequence must flee their oppressors.

Instead of calling me a whiner, refute the claim that GE is in fact not avoiding taxes is in fact paying more than they should and as a consequence must flee their oppressors.Their complaint is not about the tax rate they have been paying in the past; it's about a 20% surcharge added to all corporate taxes. To be fair, should such a surcharge be required, it should be on all taxes, not just those of corporations. "Corporate persons" should be treated the same as "organic persons" under the laws of the land; otherwise "equality" becomes more of a farce than is the current definition of personhood.

OK. Billions is too high. But those 5700 earn far more than any OK corp pays. Between higher income taxes, far higher property taxes and relative sales taxes, they are well into hundreds of millions. There is definitely a tight link to the area so i dont see them moving significant numbers.

OKC just has to be aggressive, that's all the Chamber can do for both OKC and Tulsa.

Education, politics, yes, those play heavily into companies decisions, but we can try and change those on local levels. But as for trying to actively draw the companies themselves, city leadership MUST step up.

I wish OKC would keep on the aerospace draw as it's a growing industry again. That could really propel OKC forward even further.

We'll see what the GE research facility does. I'm hoping a lot.

What GE does is lobby Congress to grant the industries they operate in favorable tax status. In many of their product markets they operate in an almost tax-free environment . Take solar pannels and wind turbines as an example. They get federal subsidies to make them, their customers get tax credits to buy them, and they get Congress to mandate the use of their output. And if that isn't enough handouts they come to places like OKC and ask for million more in taxpayer money.

Meanwhile back at the farm, their executives get high 8 figure incomes and Wall Street makes billions. I've concluded if we did close all these tax loopholes most companies would go out of business. Now we know why we are $17 trillion in debt.

Cry me a river. It would be nice if these so called "corporations are people" paid in taxes what real people do.

Wonder how much $ in payroll, health insurance, and employee savings they inject into the economy?

Just curious.

What you are doing is deftly changing the argument that GE is full of it when claiming to be overtaxed. When it is shown that GE is engaged in hypocritical whining about being overtaxed, you become a corporate apologist claiming "you would do it to if you had their advantages". What I would do or would not do, does not shield GE from being called out for a hypocritical argument. Instead of calling me a whiner, refute the claim that GE is in fact not avoiding taxes is in fact paying more than they should and as a consequence must flee their oppressors.

GE is a company. Paying $1 in taxes is being overtaxed in their eyes. They are very good at what they do and guess what? It results in them not having to pay a huge tax burden. They cry poor, lobby, and hire expensive lawyers to find loop holes. Do you have like 0 experience with business people? This is what we do.

You are complaining that a massive company with revenues in the hundreds of billions is behaving exactly like a massive company behaves. Do you scream and yell at your dog for barking? No he's a dog that's what he does. GE avoids taxes because that's what they do. That's what every company and individual on the face of the earth does. You do it too. So yes, it hypocritical to complain GE avoids taxes when you do it as well. Some of the most liberal people I know hire republican tax accountants. Why? Because no one wants to pay more then they have to. GE is just brilliant at doing it.

The real fault lies with the government. They have the power to tax and if they want more tax revenue they should exercise said power if they want more money. Asking GE to pay more is ludicrous.

That last paragraph is exactly what Connecticut did. Like it or not, Oklahoma is going to have do it pretty soon as well.

GE is a company. Paying $1 in taxes is being overtaxed in their eyes. They are very good at what they do and guess what? It results in them not having to pay a huge tax burden. They cry poor, lobby, and hire expensive lawyers to find loop holes. Do you have like 0 experience with business people? This is what we do.

You are complaining that a massive company with revenues in the hundreds of billions is behaving exactly like a massive company behaves. Do you scream and yell at your dog for barking? No he's a dog that's what he does. GE avoids taxes because that's what they do. That's what every company and individual on the face of the earth does. You do it too. So yes, it hypocritical to complain GE avoids taxes when you do it as well. Some of the most liberal people I know hire republican tax accountants. Why? Because no one wants to pay more then they have to. GE is just brilliant at doing it.

The real fault lies with the government. They have the power to tax and if they want more tax revenue they should exercise said power if they want more money. Asking GE to pay more is ludicrous.

What did Connecticut do to cause the uproar? Exactly what you said they should do. Also, your views on business (while thinking others are naive) are, frankly, way off the mark. Research corporate charters and get back with me. You are young. A lot of your type thinking is spilling out of business schools from conservative universities. It's not capitalism at all, it's corporatocracy. And there's a big difference.


Wonder how much $ in payroll, health insurance, and employee savings they inject into the economy?

Just curious.

I don't know and it really doesn't matter. It has nothing to do with the issue of this thread. My charity work, all the spending I do during any given year, and what a great citizen I am has nothing to do with what I owe in taxes. Nothing. To confuse the issue is the only answer to this kind of corporate thuggery ala GE in Connecticut. Before someone says that "thuggery" is incendiary, etc. - nope - it's exactly what it is.

Rather they land GE or not Texas is still getting it done right because they simply choose to do what is necessary to build the opportunity and the wealth that improve the lives of their citizens in good way! We need to move in that direction too in Oklahoma.

Texas shows us what it takes to be truly competitive in today’s business environment.

Please read the entire article on the link.

Report: Texas looking to lasso General Electric's headquarters - Dallas Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/blog/morning_call/2015/06/report-texas-looking-to-lasso-general-electrics.html?ana=yahoo)

It appears Texas Gov. Greg Abbott has thrown the Lone Star state's hat into the ring as a suitor for the headquarters of Connecticut-based General Electric, according to a report by Hearst Connecticut Media Group.

The news group obtained a one-page letter Abbott reportedly sent to General Electric CEO Jeffrey Immelt promising the company a smaller tax bill and lots of economic incentives.

In the letter, Abbott said he was sure governors throughout the United States were writing similar letters to Immelt after he spoke openly about his displeasure with Connecticut's proposed $700 million increase in taxes on businesses over the next two years.

"But how many of my colleagues just passed a total relief tax package of $3.8 billion like we did last week in Texas,"

The funding short fall and excessive debt compiled by Texas and its State agencies is well documented ($328 billion and counting). When that tree falls it is going to make one serious thud and Texas will have to do what Connecticut just did - raise taxes on those not paying any.

What did Connecticut do to cause the uproar? Exactly what you said they should do. Also, your views on business (while thinking others are naive) are, frankly, way off the mark. Research corporate charters and get back with me. You are young. A lot of your type thinking is spilling out of business schools from conservative universities. It's not capitalism at all, it's corporatocracy. And there's a big difference.



I don't know and it really doesn't matter. It has nothing to do with the issue of this thread. My charity work, all the spending I do during any given year, and what a great citizen I am has nothing to do with what I owe in taxes. Nothing. To confuse the issue is the only answer to this kind of corporate thuggery ala GE in Connecticut. Before someone says that "thuggery" is incendiary, etc. - nope - it's exactly what it is.

They raised taxes and GE threatened to leave. Once again, that's pretty predictable behavior. When states have to compete with each other for companies, having a lower tax rate is attractive. (It is not the only factor, and sometimes isn't even a factor) So maybe a state with 3.5 million people should try to figure out a way to spend less then $20,000,000,000. That's almost 3X the size of Oklahoma's state government with a slightly smaller population.

Oh so instead of attacking the message, attack the messenger. Good work Saul Alinsky.

I never once mentioned capitalism. In a pure capitalistic libertarian utopia, large companies aren't allowed to hire a lobbyist to get congress to rewrite the tax code for them. That's not the world we live in though. And since it's legal, GE is going to do it. None of this behavior is shocking. Companies like to avoid taxes, it's what they do it's who they are. They aren't thugs they are behaving exactly like they're supposed too and always have.

If the government wants more revenue they can raise taxes, close loopholes, and limit deductions.

They raised taxes and GE threatened to leave. Once again, that's pretty predictable behavior. When states have to compete with each other for companies, having a lower tax rate is attractive. (It is not the only factor, and sometimes isn't even a factor) So maybe a state with 3.5 million people should try to figure out a way to spend less then $20,000,000,000. That's almost 3X the size of Oklahoma's state government with a slightly smaller population.

Oh so instead of attacking the message, attack the messenger. Good work Saul Alinsky.

I never once mentioned capitalism. In a pure capitalistic libertarian utopia, large companies aren't allowed to hire a lobbyist to get congress to rewrite the tax code for them. That's not the world we live in though. And since it's legal, GE is going to do it. None of this behavior is shocking. Companies like to avoid taxes, it's what they do it's who they are. They aren't thugs they are behaving exactly like they're supposed too and always have.

If the government wants more revenue they can raise taxes, close loopholes, and limit deductions.

I wasn't attacking you in a personal way, simply the fact you are young and we all know that conservative universities are, in fact, teaching what we considered "John Bircher" type economics in the 60's and 70's. Call it what you want. Maybe "unbridled capitalism," but I said it because of your posts that approve of corporations doing whatever they have to do to make (more) money. "That's the law - if they don't like it change it." That attitude right there is corporate power swinging its power and pushing the envelope, almost begging or baiting for more regulation. Then they have more to blame on their regulators. It's an old game, but it's become mainstream and your posts reflect that ultra pro-corporate attitude. Avoiding taxes is not "what they do." You DO realize that still, today, in 2015 the corporate charter, issued by the states, is the legal document that allows them to operate as a corporation. It's not a right - it's a responsibility that includes being a good corporate citizen. The language in those are at odds with your thinking and it's time to put the brakes on the corporatocracy run wild.

By the way, you wrote: "Oh so instead of attacking the message, attack the messenger. Good work Saul Alinsky." That IS a personal attack. I didn't compare you to any people with controversial lives. Think what I could do.

The funding short fall and excessive debt compiled by Texas and its State agencies is well documented ($328 billion and counting). When that tree falls it is going to make one serious thud and Texas will have to do what Connecticut just did - raise taxes on those not paying any.
Their high growth rates and increasing severance tax will help Texas pay down its debt….. But Texas is trying to do something that you and many others here have screamed about all the time ….. Diversify its economy …. Doing so requires effort and smart debt….They are showing us how it’s done in today's world…We should be paying close attention.
With such cheap interest rates what they are doing will pay off many times over in the coming decades.

They raised taxes and GE threatened to leave. Once again, that's pretty predictable behavior. When states have to compete with each other for companies, having a lower tax rate is attractive. (It is not the only factor, and sometimes isn't even a factor) So maybe a state with 3.5 million people should try to figure out a way to spend less then $20,000,000,000. That's almost 3X the size of Oklahoma's state government with a slightly smaller population.

Oh so instead of attacking the message, attack the messenger. Good work Saul Alinsky.

I never once mentioned capitalism. In a pure capitalistic libertarian utopia, large companies aren't allowed to hire a lobbyist to get congress to rewrite the tax code for them. That's not the world we live in though. And since it's legal, GE is going to do it. None of this behavior is shocking. Companies like to avoid taxes, it's what they do it's who they are. They aren't thugs they are behaving exactly like they're supposed too and always have.

If the government wants more revenue they can raise taxes, close loopholes, and limit deductions.
Companies do like to avoid taxes but there is something else in play…. CEO’s and other high ranking officials like avoiding state income taxes…. It makes their decision to move a lot easier.

I have a sister in law who once worked on economic development in the north Texas area and helped recruit and broker deals to bring large corporations to the Dallas area. XOM was one of her success. But from talking to her in depth it’s pretty clear that we don’t do enough in Oklahoma to be attractive to corporations and their new high wage jobs.

It starts IMHO with the lack of resources that we spend at our universities on educating people in the various sciences. If we don’t invest in our own intellectual capital it just moves elsewhere on its own!

Their high growth rates and increasing severance tax will help Texas pay down its debt….. But Texas is trying to do something that you and many others here have screamed about all the time ….. Diversify its economy …. Doing so requires effort and smart debt….They are showing us how it’s done in today's world…We should be paying close attention.
With such cheap interest rates what they are doing will pay off many times over in the coming decades.

Tell that to our legislators. All they want to do is cut, cut, and cut some more.

Their high growth rates and increasing severance tax will help Texas pay down its debt….. But Texas is trying to do something that you and many others here have screamed about all the time ….. Diversify its economy …. Doing so requires effort and smart debt….They are showing us how it’s done in today's world…We should be paying close attention.
With such cheap interest rates what they are doing will pay off many times over in the coming decades.

So you are under the assumption that at some point Texas will have all of their infrastructure in place and will be swimming in so much tax money that they can not only meet all their funding needs at that time, but also run a $320 million surplus to pay off their debt? That sounds like the logic used by compulsive gamblers (and the Federal government)

So you are under the assumption that at some point Texas will have all of their infrastructure in place and will be swimming in so much tax money that they can not only meet all their funding needs at that time, but also run a $320 million surplus to pay off their debt? That sounds like the logic used by compulsive gamblers (and the Federal government)

You assume this is a no growth situation with Texas. They borrowed billions at virtually zero interest to invest in infrastructure which was a brilliant move. The big 4 cities of Texas have announces tens of thousands of new jobs. Just look at Plano-Frisco alone in N. Texas. A total transformation is about to happen. Toyota, State Farm, Lincoln National and Fed Ex all have announced multi-thousand hiring expansions. Ft. Worth has large announcements, there is a whole thread about Austin Hi Tech boom and Houston will come on again shortly - especially if oil exports are approved. Debt is not to be feared when it spurs private investment, such as in Texas. Debt is an evil ticking time bomb when it is thrown at politically correct causes and economically unfeasible pies-in-sky fantasies and not used to spur reasonable investment the way the Fed has done it. 30 years from now, Durant and Ardmore may be outer exurbs of Dallas-Fort Worth.

You assume this is a no growth situation with Texas. They borrowed billions at virtually zero interest to invest in infrastructure which was a brilliant move. The big 4 cities of Texas have announces tens of thousands of new jobs. Just look at Plano-Frisco alone in N. Texas. A total transformation is about to happen. Toyota, State Farm, Lincoln National and Fed Ex all have announced multi-thousand hiring expansions. Ft. Worth has large announcements, there is a whole thread about Austin Hi Tech boom and Houston will come on again shortly - especially if oil exports are approved. Debt is not to be feared when it spurs private investment, such as in Texas. Debt is an evil ticking time bomb when it is thrown at politically correct causes and economically unfeasible pies-in-sky fantasies and not used to spur reasonable investment the way the Fed has done it. 30 years from now, Durant and Ardmore may be outer exurbs of Dallas-Fort Worth.+1. Also note Facebook is opening a data center in Fortworth.

GE is a company. Paying $1 in taxes is being overtaxed in their eyes. They are very good at what they do and guess what? It results in them not having to pay a huge tax burden. They cry poor, lobby, and hire expensive lawyers to find loop holes. Do you have like 0 experience with business people? This is what we do.

You are complaining that a massive company with revenues in the hundreds of billions is behaving exactly like a massive company behaves. Do you scream and yell at your dog for barking? No he's a dog that's what he does. GE avoids taxes because that's what they do. That's what every company and individual on the face of the earth does. You do it too. So yes, it hypocritical to complain GE avoids taxes when you do it as well. Some of the most liberal people I know hire republican tax accountants. Why? Because no one wants to pay more then they have to. GE is just brilliant at doing it.

The real fault lies with the government. They have the power to tax and if they want more tax revenue they should exercise said power if they want more money. Asking GE to pay more is ludicrous.

What you say here is spot on. The fiduciary responsibility of a publicly traded company is to reasonably maximize profits. If CT raises their state tax rate to, say, 5%, while TX has 0%, then the board of directors must explore a move. Businesses aren't in business to pay taxes (research corporate charters). GoPokes is also spot on with his observation that CTs state budget is approximately 3x that of OK though our populations are comperable and despite OK being 14x the size of CT. While i wish OK spent more on higher quality education and roads, perhaps CT needs to do some significant cutting. Even when the Federal Government tries to raise corporate tax rates, corporations can simply move overseas. GE simply manages taxes the way individuals do. They minimize them.

Yes, but thanks to the incentives, those jobs aren't producing taxes to pay off the debt they borrowed to create the job. You know, it's not like Texas just started doing this. They have been doing it for 30 years and they have a bigger debt than ever. When does they payoff come?

All that awesome growth is fueled by debt, and they aren't collecting the taxes necessary to pay it off. At some point they will have to start taxing these companies and then what? Answer, GE moves to Arizona and Texas is left holding the bag - just like a lot companies do in Oklahoma just as soon as Quality Jobs money goes away.

I'll just leave this here for anyone who wants to read it.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/12/03/us/winners-and-losers-in-texas.html?pagewanted=all&referrer=

What you say here is spot on. The fiduciary responsibility of a publicly traded company is to reasonably maximize profits. If CT raises their state tax rate to, say, 5%, while TX has 0%, then the board of directors must explore a move. Businesses aren't in business to pay taxes (research corporate charters). GoPokes is also spot on with his observation that CTs state budget is approximately 3x that of OK though our populations are comperable and despite OK being 14x the size of CT. While i wish OK spent more on higher quality education and roads, perhaps CT needs to do some significant cutting. Even when the Federal Government tries to raise corporate tax rates, corporations can simply move overseas. GE simply manages taxes the way individuals do. They minimize them.,

This may come as a surprise to you, Mug, but this "fiduciary duty" or "responsibility to shareholders" we always hear about? It's a myth. There is no such thing.

Maximizing Shareholder Value: The Goal That Changed Corporate America - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/maximizing-shareholder-value-the-goal-that-changed-corporate-america/2013/08/26/26e9ca8e-ed74-11e2-9008-61e94a7ea20d_story.html)

"The belief that shareholders come first is not codified by statute. Rather, it was introduced by a handful of free-market academics in the 1970s and then picked up by business leaders and the media until it became an oft-repeated mantra in the corporate world."

The Shareholder Wealth Maximization Myth - Truth On The Market (http://truthonthemarket.com/2010/07/27/the-shareholder-wealth-maximization-myth/)

"The only constraint on board decision making is a pair of duties – the “duty of care” and the “duty of loyalty.” The duty of care requires boards to be well informed and to make deliberate decisions after careful consideration of the issues. Importantly, board members are entitled to rely on experts and corporate officers for their information, can easily comply with duty of care obligations by spending shareholder money on lawyers and process, and, in any event, are routinely indemnified against damages for any breaches of this duty. The duty of loyalty self evidently requires board members to put the interests of the corporation ahead of their own personal interest."


The Cult of Shareholder Value Has Wrecked American Business - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/09/how-the-cult-of-shareholder-value-wrecked-american-business/)

"There are no statutes that put the shareholder at the top of the corporate priority list...Nor does the law require, as many believe, that executives and directors owe a special fiduciary duty to shareholders."


Article by Connecticut School of Law Professor at Medium (https://medium.com/bull-market/there-is-no-effective-fiduciary-duty-to-maximize-profits-939ae50d0572)

"The specific fiduciary duties of corporate directors, like much of the law, are not written down in any statute..."


Mug, There are answers for everything you and gopokes88 have written. But, I'll just start with the above so we can move along.

Zookeeper- have you read Impulse Society? If not, add it to your reading list. Sadly, the same group of people chanting "Take our country back" turn around and support the very activity that is breaking it apart - and they don't even see it.

Zookeeper- have you read Impulse Society? If not, add it to your reading list. Sadly, the same group of people chanting "Take our country back" turn around and support the very activity that is breaking it apart - and they don't even see it.

On the list! Thanks, as always.

GE will probably move their HQ somewhere that provides them the quality workforce of CT with slightly lower taxes. They already have a MAJOR presence in Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Louisville.

The GE Lighting HQ in East Cleve is stunning... Though Cincinnati would make a lot of sense for them.

To JTF - providing a 3 year old article from a newspaper in a state that is losing jobs to Texas is hardly proof of anything. Did you honestly tell me that the people taking the thousands of jobs arent paying taxes -- and therefore arent helping to service the debt load? What planet have you gone to? The COMPANIES are getting the tax breaks, not the employees. The employees are spending money and paying some of the highest sales taxes in the country. They are building and buying houses and paying property taxes 3x what i pay in CO. i can dispute a NYT article because all you have to do is use your eyes and see the prosperity there. There is a fraction of the normal housing inventory for sale. There are billion dollar construction and development projects across the state - most of which DO pay property taxes. Construction cranes are all over DFW for privately financed development and RE-development abounds in the large cities. At the same time, the cost of living remains low compared to most of the country. You can deny it all you want, but all you have to do is use your eyes. Is TX perfect? No. They could have spent more money on education. Most of their school financing problems come from state law embeded in their constitution and the simple fact TX is physically enormous. Working in the financial biz, i can tell you no one seems to have a problem with the quality and safety of their bonds. I'll believe the markets far more easily than a NYTiimes writer.

To Zookeeper: you can find articles to say anything. Sure there are poorly run companies. The average life of a company that hits the stock market is about 4 years. Companies who are well run rise to the top. Whether it is written in statute or not, a company won't thrive the way GE has by "getting along." Their BOD has generally done a fair job but has been guilty of holding assets in industries that are no longer providing high growth. They are actively shedding divisions that dont contribute enough to the bottom line such as financial and home appliances. If they dont react, they stagnate and GE was starting to stagnate. Again' you can provide all the articles you want but all you have to do is use your own eyes and use common sense to see this is a prudent move. Clearly dozens of other firms see it the same way.

To Zookeeper: you can find articles to say anything. Sure there are poorly run companies. The average life of a company that hits the stock market is about 4 years. Companies who are well run rise to the top. Whether it is written in statute or not, a company won't thrive the way GE has by "getting along." Their BOD has generally done a fair job but has been guilty of holding assets in industries that are no longer providing high growth. They are actively shedding divisions that dont contribute enough to the bottom line such as financial and home appliances. If they dont react, they stagnate and GE was starting to stagnate. Again' you can provide all the articles you want but all you have to do is use your own eyes and use common sense to see this is a prudent move. Clearly dozens of other firms see it the same way.

What? You stated in your earlier post, passing along the "fiduciary responsibility" myth:

"The fiduciary responsibility of a publicly traded company is to reasonably maximize profits. If CT raises their state tax rate to, say, 5%, while TX has 0%, then the board of directors must explore a move."


That's all I responded to. To show that the "fiduciary duty" myth is a canard used to explain inexplicable behavior. Your response is to say you can find articles that can say anything? Those links clearly laid out the history of how the "fiduciary responsibility" myth got started and how it's not codified or any way laid out as a legal "responsibility." You can't find articles in the Washington Post that say anything, Mug. That's absurd on its face and what's more - you know that. What is the purpose of research and study if there is no fact to refute fiction? No truth to prove a falsity? Your response is to simply say I can find an article that can say anything? You said that corporations have a "fiduciary responsibility" to maximize profits. That's not true. Of course it matters if it's in statutes. The argument keeps getting put forward as an excuse how these poor corporations can't help it, they HAVE to do this and that because they have this fiduciary responsibility.....it's not true!

Reasoning with blind supporters of the corporatocracy is incredibly frustrating. You said you are in the financial industry, which makes you a part of the pushing paper to make more money to get more fake paper to sell at a ridiculous interest rates (when you get it almost free), on and on. Your industry is part of the problem and has no place at the table to discuss righting this ship of state that finance capital has caused. They claim that the law forces them to do these things and then when shown there isn't actually a law, they do exactly what you did. Change the subject. In your case, you claim that somehow there is no real truth and the articles I posted are suspect because "you can find articles that say anything." There's a term for that: Intellectual dishonesty. Something easily learned in the financial industry.

http://i.imgur.com/Z4DZrAo.png

To JTF - providing a 3 year old article from a newspaper in a state that is losing jobs to Texas is hardly proof of anything. Did you honestly tell me that the people taking the thousands of jobs arent paying taxes -- and therefore arent helping to service the debt load? What planet have you gone to? The COMPANIES are getting the tax breaks, not the employees. The employees are spending money and paying some of the highest sales taxes in the country. They are building and buying houses and paying property taxes 3x what i pay in CO. i can dispute a NYT article because all you have to do is use your eyes and see the prosperity there. There is a fraction of the normal housing inventory for sale. There are billion dollar construction and development projects across the state - most of which DO pay property taxes. Construction cranes are all over DFW for privately financed development and RE-development abounds in the large cities. At the same time, the cost of living remains low compared to most of the country. You can deny it all you want, but all you have to do is use your eyes. Is TX perfect? No. They could have spent more money on education. Most of their school financing problems come from state law embeded in their constitution and the simple fact TX is physically enormous. Working in the financial biz, i can tell you no one seems to have a problem with the quality and safety of their bonds. I'll believe the markets far more easily than a NYTiimes writer.

Not only is the State rebating the companies taxes, they are also rebating the EMPLOYEE'S taxes. That is why the size of the rebate is directly related to the payroll dollar amount. Now yes, there will be sales tax collections when employees spend their checks but the fact is from the State and Local government perspective, they are rebating more than they are collecting while still have to provide services to the employees. If incentives are the way to go why doesn't Oklahoma just eliminate business income taxes period across the board for every employer? Just think of the growth that would generate.

Quality Jobs Program - Oklahoma Department of Commerce (http://okcommerce.gov/new-and-existing-business/incentives/quality-jobs-program/)


This incentive targets manufacturers and certain service industries that have a new payroll investment of $2.5 million or more to receive a quarterly cash payment of up to 5 percent of new taxable payroll. A lower payroll threshold is available for certain food processing and research and development projects, or as a result of locating in targeted areas. Qualifying wage requirements would be the lower of the average county wage or the state index wage. Companies that have 10 percent of their workforce as veterans qualify for a higher 6 percent net benefit rate.


Oklahoma’s 21st Century Quality Jobs offers incentives to businesses with a highly skilled, knowledge-based workforce. For qualifying companies, this unique incentive would pay businesses cash back, up to 10 percent of payroll, for up to ten years for the creation of 10 jobs with high average wage of $94,000 annually or higher, depending on county.


Effective July 1, 2011, Oklahoma aerospace companies hiring engineers receive a tax credit equal to 10% of the compensation paid to an engineer during the first five years of his or her employment depending on the date of hire if the engineer graduated from an Oklahoma college, or a tax credit equal to 5% of the compensation paid to the engineer during the first five years of his or her employment depending on the date of hire if the engineer graduated from a college outside Oklahoma. The maximum credit is $12,500 per qualified employee per year.

In addition, effective July 1, 2011 Oklahoma aerospace companies may receive a tax credit in the amount of 50% of the tuition reimbursed to a new engineer graduate for the first four years of his or her employment depending on the date of hire. The tax credit is limited to 50% of the average annual tuition paid by an engineer at a qualified program at a public university in Oklahoma.

Also, effective July 1, 2011 engineers hired by an Oklahoma aerospace company may also receive an individual tax credit of up to $5,000 per year for a period of 5 years depending on the date of hire

I used to work for GE Aviation in Cincinnati. They would move their engineering offices every 15 years when their current set of incentives ran out, leaving behind massive empty office buildings. When I left they were building a new set of buildings in West Chester, to pay for the incentives being given to GE, the city passed a 1% local income tax. So GE employees (and everyone else working in West Chester) got to pay directly for GE's tax breaks. They did the same thing with their manufacturing, get huge deals from city/states to open a facility, as soon as the benefits dried up, move it all somewhere else.

GE also employees about 1000 tax attorneys to manipulate the tax laws as much as possible, not to mention all of their lobbies.

Not only is the State rebating the companies taxes, they are also rebating the EMPLOYEE'S taxes.

Yup, I haven't paid state income tax since I moved back to Oklahoma in 2009. To restart the 5 year period all you have to do is leave the aviation industry for a few months and go back. The law takes up less than 1 sheet of paper, and has no restrictions on using it multiple times. It also does not require you to be a resident of the state of Oklahoma, there are a lot of people that commute from Wichita and pay no income tax.

I know this is about GE, but some previous comments have briefly mentioned OKC and OK diversifying. I thought I'd drop this here. I certainly hope they are successful in their endeavors to keep Oklahoma on the map for aerospace:

Oklahoma Delegation Courts Aerospace Industry At Paris Air Show
Posted: Jun 15, 2015 11:49 AM CST Updated: Jun 15, 2015 12:01 PM CST
Dee Duren, NewsOn6.com

"PARIS, France -

Tulsa Mayor Dewey Bartlett is in Paris alongside Governor Mary Fallin in an effort to bring more aerospace industry to the state.

Both are part of the Oklahoma delegation at the Paris Air Show. The International aerospace show runs from June 15 to 21, bring together leaders in the aviation industry and showcasing the latest technology.

Fallin said the delegation is pitching the Sooner Sate as the "number one place for aerospace." She said the state has a skilled workforce, a great location and one of the lowest costs of doing business in the country."

Oklahoma Delegation Courts Aerospace Industry At Paris Air Show - NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com | (http://www.newson6.com/story/29322780/oklahoma-delegation-courts-aerospace-industry-at-paris-air-show)

So with those last 3 items, why do we have to offer incentives? We should be attracting companies that expand the taxbase, not mooch off of it.

So with those last 3 items, why do we have to offer incentives?
Why? Simple: far too many big businesses these days are run by the MBAs who worship nothing but this quarter's bottom line, and have little or no interest in long-term planning. To them, incentives are the be-all and end-all of site selection.

Why? Simple: far too many big businesses these days are run by the MBAs who worship nothing but this quarter's bottom line, and have little or no interest in long-term planning. To them, incentives are the be-all and end-all of site selection.

Exactly, so why buy into that non-sense. Is temporary growth worth the debt and inevitable collapse? I would rather just tell them go screw up someone elses finances. My luck they will end up going to Florida anyhow.

This may come as a surprise to you, Mug, but this "fiduciary duty" or "responsibility to shareholders" we always hear about? It's a myth. There is no such thing.
...

I call shenanigans.
Every business exists to make money.
Who do they make money for? The owner. If the owner is a generous and kind soul, he will not hog all the money, but that speaks only to the nature of the owner.
Who is the owner of GE? Shareholders.
Whether you call it a fiduciary responsibility or something else, a good business maximizes profits. What they do with those profits ... not my monkeys or circus, unless I'm a shareholder.

I call shenanigans.
Every business exists to make money.
Who do they make money for? The owner. If the owner is a generous and kind soul, he will not hog all the money, but that speaks only to the nature of the owner.
Who is the owner of GE? Shareholders.
Whether you call it a fiduciary responsibility or something else, a good business maximizes profits. What they do with those profits ... not my monkeys or circus, unless I'm a shareholder.

In theory that is true, just like in theory Senators and Congressmen/women represent the voters and not the paid lobbyists that take them on junkets, concerts, golf outings, etc.


General Electric Lets a Little Democracy into its Boardroom | Center for Effective Government (http://www.foreffectivegov.org/blog/general-electric-lets-little-democracy-its-boardroom)
Shareholders, in theory, own and control a corporation, but this control has always been limited because American corporations have no real elections for their boards. Candidates for directors are put forth by the board itself, and shareholders are ritualistically presented with a slate of directors equal to the number of seats to be filled. They can vote “no” for any candidate, but given there are only as many candidates as there are seats on the board, even a candidate failing to win a majority of votes still is placed on the board.

Over the last decade, a growing number of institutional investors have pressed to change the way directors are elected. They asked the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) to adopt new measures of what was called “proxy access” – the right of shareholders with a large enough stake in the company to nominate directors directly to the proxy ballot.

In August 2010, the SEC adopted such a measure, allowing shareholders or groups of shareholders owning three percent of a company’s stock continuously for more than three years to nominate alternative directors for shareholders to consider when they vote.

The move angered the nation’s CEOs. The Business Roundtable, a powerful lobbying organization representing prominent CEOs, and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the nation’s largest business lobby, sued the SEC to block the measure. They won, and the measure was struck down in 2011.
GE entered the fray last fall, when one of its shareholders, Kevin Mahar, introduced a shareholder proposal asking the company to broaden the role of shareholders by adopting proxy access.

Under SEC rules, any shareholder who has owned $2,000 worth of stock for more than one year has the right to introduce a proposal asking the company to report on a specific business practice or to change some policy. The SEC considers these votes advisory, not binding, and as such, even when resolutions receive a majority of shareholder’s votes, companies are not legally obligated to follow shareholder direction on issues like disclosing their political contributions or reporting on the effects of climate change.

So unless you have at least 2, 000 worth of stock, held for at least a year, you dear shareholder,"owner", have nothing. Even then the vote or wishes is not binding.

In theory that is true, just like in theory Senators and Congressmen/women represent the voters and not the paid lobbyists that take them on junkets, concerts, golf outings, etc.


General Electric Lets a Little Democracy into its Boardroom | Center for Effective Government (http://www.foreffectivegov.org/blog/general-electric-lets-little-democracy-its-boardroom)
Shareholders, in theory, own and control a corporation, but this control has always been limited because American corporations have no real elections for their boards. Candidates for directors are put forth by the board itself, and shareholders are ritualistically presented with a slate of directors equal to the number of seats to be filled. They can vote “no” for any candidate, but given there are only as many candidates as there are seats on the board, even a candidate failing to win a majority of votes still is placed on the board.

Over the last decade, a growing number of institutional investors have pressed to change the way directors are elected. They asked the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) to adopt new measures of what was called “proxy access” – the right of shareholders with a large enough stake in the company to nominate directors directly to the proxy ballot.

In August 2010, the SEC adopted such a measure, allowing shareholders or groups of shareholders owning three percent of a company’s stock continuously for more than three years to nominate alternative directors for shareholders to consider when they vote.

The move angered the nation’s CEOs. The Business Roundtable, a powerful lobbying organization representing prominent CEOs, and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the nation’s largest business lobby, sued the SEC to block the measure. They won, and the measure was struck down in 2011.
GE entered the fray last fall, when one of its shareholders, Kevin Mahar, introduced a shareholder proposal asking the company to broaden the role of shareholders by adopting proxy access.

Under SEC rules, any shareholder who has owned $2,000 worth of stock for more than one year has the right to introduce a proposal asking the company to report on a specific business practice or to change some policy. The SEC considers these votes advisory, not binding, and as such, even when resolutions receive a majority of shareholder’s votes, companies are not legally obligated to follow shareholder direction on issues like disclosing their political contributions or reporting on the effects of climate change.

So unless you have at least 2, 000 worth of stock, held for at least a year, you dear shareholder,"owner", have nothing. Even then the vote or wishes is not binding.

Theory or no, it's still true in practice, as well. If you have 1 owner or more (shareholders), your job as a business entity is to make money (for that / those owners) and make it big.

Let me ask for those who think a corporation's primary objective is making money? Who/what should be making money - the corporation or the shareholders? Should it be profit at all costs?