As as previous land owner in SOSA... One major reason we decided to sell our properties was due to the previous projects being built by this developer. Their projects lack the quality of all the other projects in SOSA as well are architecture design If you have been thru any of the houses in SOSA you can tell a total difference in quality construction between their projects and others. Now this developer has been able to flip these properties and make good money but at who's expense. The houses they are building will be falling apart in 15 years or need major remodeling. It is really disheartening for me to see another property by northline bc they are totally moving in a different direction than any of the other property owners in SOSA. Now I realize I have no fight in this decision due to selling my property. Just my 2 cents.

As as previous land owner in SOSA... One major reason we decided to sell our properties was due to the previous projects being built by this developer. Their projects lack the quality of all the other projects in SOSA as well are architecture design If you have been thru any of the houses in SOSA you can tell a total difference in quality construction between their projects and others. Now this developer has been able to flip these properties and make good money but at who's expense. The houses they are building will be falling apart in 15 years or need major remodeling. It is really disheartening for me to see another property by northline bc they are totally moving in a different direction than any of the other property owners in SOSA. Now I realize I have no fight in this decision due to selling my property. Just my 2 cents.

Which projects specifically are you referring to…I don't think most of us know which properties are Northline and which are not. Can you provide addresses?

815 nw 8th duplex and 828 nw 8th

I believe their plan is to also build exact replica duplex to 815 right to the east of it. Terrible

I am not sure which ones kjones is referring to but they built 828 NW 8th which is under contract and was on the AIA tour. They also built the duplex at 813 NW 8th. They may also be doing the house under construction at 916 NW 8th but not totally sure as that has been transferred to another LLC. These may not be the ones he is referring to though.

The previous Northline SOSA projects are relatively dumpy and unimaginative. This proposed project looks much better and more professionally designed. And they are going along a busier, 4 lane street where I dont think single residences make sense. Could this proposed project be a little better and have more variation among unuts? Yes. Do the nearby neighbors to the north have a reason to be upset? Absolutely, and I cant blame them for that. But I dont see why this project should be stopped. There is no glaring issue with these 14 units that should give the city any reason to block it.

Besides, if this were shot down, it could be likely that a denser and taller apartment/condo building could locate on this property and make things even worse for the neighbors.

As as previous land owner in SOSA... One major reason we decided to sell our properties was due to the previous projects being built by this developer. Their projects lack the quality of all the other projects in SOSA as well are architecture design If you have been thru any of the houses in SOSA you can tell a total difference in quality construction between their projects and others. Now this developer has been able to flip these properties and make good money but at who's expense. The houses they are building will be falling apart in 15 years or need major remodeling. It is really disheartening for me to see another property by northline bc they are totally moving in a different direction than any of the other property owners in SOSA. Now I realize I have no fight in this decision due to selling my property. Just my 2 cents.

IIRC, you sold one lot in SoSA to buy the one at 809 NW 7th from Dennis Wells. Then when asked about selling that lot you said:


My wife and I had planned to build our dream home. Due to many factors (cost,time and finding another home we love we decided to sell the lot.)

You also sold that second lot before the second Northline project was even started. Both their projects are on 8th and your lot was on 7th.

Also, Ken Fitzsimmons designed 828 NW 8th, and he's designed several houses in SoSA:

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2732/R013203648001nA.jpg

Here is the Northline duplex at 815 NW 8th:

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2732/R013202944001oA.jpg

This project received approval from the UDC today.

Only person voting against was Brian Fitzsimmons who lives to the north. His wife spoke against the project at the meeting.

Seems a bit unusual that Brian was still able to vote. Conflict of interest?

Love what Brian Fitzsimmons has done for this city.

This was not a proud moment for him though. I'd hope in the future that he recuses himself from a vote in a situation like this, especially if his wife is actively protesting to the committee. You have 0% chance of being swayed by a better argument if the other side of the argument is your wife…unless of course you're certifiably insane hahaha!!!

Glad to see this was approved.

SoSA is on the up and up! I really like the modern-style houses and they are very unique for OKC. Hopefully the next bond package in 2017 includes street resurfacing, sidewalks, and streetlights in the neighborhood.

Seems a bit unusual that Brian was still able to vote. Conflict of interest?

I read that in the article and thought the same thing too. Probably should have recused himself from voting.

I read that in the article and thought the same thing too. Probably should have recused himself from voting.

It's a conflict of interest for sure. And his wife made it worse by protesting, because now you don't know if he was voting under direction of his wife, or himself. And he may have told her he would not vote at all, but she may have swayed him to vote anyhow.

The good thing is it passed, despite NIMBY opposition of an unreasonable issue.

It's a conflict of interest for sure. And his wife made it worse by protesting, because now you don't know if he was voting under direction of his wife, or himself. And he may have told her he would not vote at all, but she may have swayed him to vote anyhow.

The good thing is it passed, despite NIMBY opposition of an unreasonable issue.

It's alright, at least it was approved. We probably shouldn't dwell on it...:tongue:

It's alright, at least it was approved. We probably shouldn't dwell on it...:tongue:

BBBOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

(lower-case letters)

BBBOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

(lower-case letters)

I take it you don't like puns.

I take it you don't like puns.

Not that bad ones anyway ;)

The approval of this project by the UDC is now being appealed to the Board of Adjustment by one of the immediate neighbors.

Same issues as before: building height, set backs, density, etc.

Did people who built there honestly think it would just be a cool suburban neighborhood but close in to downtown?

Did people who built there honestly think it would just be a cool suburban neighborhood but close in to downtown?

I think they might have actually thought that. Which is beyond stupid to me.

The approval of this project by the UDC is now being appealed to the Board of Adjustment by one of the immediate neighbors.

Same issues as before: building height, set backs, density, etc.

Ridiculous.

What kind of chance do you think they have at defeating this proposal?

What are the laws regarding "air rights" in OKC? Could they have bought the air rights above the land in front of them to keep high buildings from being built? I've heard of that happening in other municipalities...

...What kind of chance do you think they have at defeating this proposal?

Zero chance, and they know it. Some people think throwing a tantrum is effective. (Ask Ed Shadid!)

Surprising for 1%ers.

What are the laws regarding "air rights" in OKC? Could they have bought the air rights above the land in front of them to keep high buildings from being built? I've heard of that happening in other municipalities...

Man, that would be a great business model:

Buy a bit of land near a lot with a view, propose a building that obstructs that view, and when the owner of the lot complains, offer them the air rights for the property, sell lower lot, let chaos ensue, profit!

After the boa comments on the Spanish style house. This appeal could be very funny.

Today the Board of Adjustment unanimously rejected the appeal to stop this project.

So, all systems go. Construction should start before the end of the year.

Today the Board of Adjustment unanimously rejected the appeal to stop this project.

So, all systems go. Construction should start before the end of the year.

Great news! Let the infill continue!

I want one.

The views will be stunning and I love how the units are free-standing and you actually have a little side yard for a dog.

Plus, there is almost nothing for sale in the core other than the tiny units at the Civic and the suburban-style Hill.


BTW, ADG has quietly become an urban design force in OKC. They are also doing AC Hotel and Hyatt Place and several other click projects.

^Agree with Pete. These look really good to me. Took a hard look at Lisbon Lofts but just a few things caused us to hold back. But am interested in these for sure. Glad to see it progressing along.

^Agree with Pete. These look really good to me. Took a hard look at Lisbon Lofts but just a few things caused us to hold back. But am interested in these for sure. Glad to see it progressing along.

What were your issues with Lisbon?

Glad to see this development move forward, it should be good for the area.

What were your issues with Lisbon?

Glad to see this development move forward, it should be good for the area.

Nothing bad in regard to Lisbon - just what was available at the time we looked didn't fit our needs. Looked at big one on end with great deck but didn't like the small window in the kitchen (picky picky) and a few other things. But a great development and will be very cool when they can finally be done.

Noticed today that the lady who lives directly north of this project and appealed to the Board of Adjustment (and lost) now has a for sale sign on her house.

The irony is that she can't possibly have any sort of view because 1) her house is only 1-story and 2) she has a bunch of big trees planted in the back yard.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dwellings092515.jpg

Maybe she's going to sell and buy one of the new properties in Dwellings at SoSA. If you can't beat em, join em, LOL.

That would be pretty funny.

She probably doesn't want to deal with the noise of having a bunch of neighbors.

I've heard that concern from many urban-minded people even on this forum…but the reality is that quiet is not something to strive for downtown. Obviously certain areas will be louder than others, but any given place downtown will have the possibility of people walking down the street…a neighbor having a lot of people at their house late…etc. etc.

Ya know, except that I don't wanna leave Norman, especially not with the g-babies now living in town, that ain't a bad lookin' lil' cottage the protester is selling off.

I've heard that concern from many urban-minded people even on this forum…but the reality is that quiet is not something to strive for downtown. Obviously certain areas will be louder than others, but any given place downtown will have the possibility of people walking down the street…a neighbor having a lot of people at their house late…etc. etc.

Exactly. More noise is something that kind of comes with the territory of having a more active, urban environment. Suburbs are made for people for whom "quiet" is a priority.

Has anyone checked on the price for the lil old ladys house? I can't make out the tel number on that sign. One might want to buy that and make it into a 2 story with a view?

Has anyone checked on the price for the lil old ladys house? I can't make out the tel number on that sign. One might want to buy that and make it into a 2 story with a view?

399k

Lol

$399k???

It's 1,248 SF and they paid $83.5K in 2008!

She's not getting $399k, but she'll top $300k easy.

Yeah, there is one just like it on 8th that sold for 299k a year or two ago.. It is being remodeled with an addition and small second story.

^
That house has an amazing view, though.

I believe they turned down an offer at 325k

Yeah, the new development in the neighborhood has been a TERRIBLE burden on her...

Nothing like quadrupling the value of your house in 7 years.

I think that's all due to the TIF investment in neighborhood. :)

400,000 for that? I thought I lived in Oklahoma City, not Orange County, California or Austin.

-50 for the house
190 for the land
259 for the view from your new third level deck

400,000 for that? I thought I lived in Oklahoma City, not Orange County, California or Austin.

Home values in OKC's urban core right now are skyrocketing, but $400k for that seems to be a little excessive.

Well why not? Developers have failed to create enough product to satisfy demand..

Well why not? Developers have failed to create enough product to satisfy demand..

While somewhat remote, an issue could arise from this problem: Most people who have the money to spend $250k+ on a house in this market are not stupid. The problem is, why would you buy in an area where prices are reaching $300/sf if prices are inflated due to a lack of supply. What happens if at some point the market is flooded with a bunch of supply and all of the sudden those $300/sf prices drop to $275/sf and stay that way for a 3 to 5 year period?

I tend to think the lifestyle will be enough to overcome that and that even still we're probably undervalued, but your comment sparked an angle of thought I hadn't considered before.

Really, if you can relent a little bit on the downtown lifestyle, I feel there are much better options (residentially speaking) further out into the core.

Sounds like the asking price on the 1642 sq ft unit is 462k.

Really, if you can relent a little bit on the downtown lifestyle, I feel there are much better options (residentially speaking) further out into the core.

This.

Right now is an excellent time to invest between 23rd and 50th along the Western Ave corridor. The area is transforming fast but you can still get some incredible deals. I imagine in five years, it will be much more expensive as it becomes fully gentrified.

There are trade-offs and for some the views of SoSA are worth every penny, especially in a city that has so few view properties.

And personally, there is tremendous benefit to being able to walk everywhere without touching your car. As I noted in another thread, there are over 200 restaurants and bars within walking distance of Midtown and that's worth a lot to some... Including me.

I stayed in SoSA last week for 8 days and when I went to put gas in my rental car, it was still almost full. And that's with a trip to Oak Tree to visit a friend.


I love the Western corridor too, but it's completely different than the immediate downtown area.

There was a stretch this summer where my car didn't get started for three straight weekends. Walked and biked everywhere.

Aside from driving 10 miles roundtrip to work 5 days a week, I don't drive my car at all.... more often than not my car doesn't move the entire weekend.

Trust me, I would absolutely prefer to live downtown…but not for the 2x to 4x difference we're talking about, it's just a hard move to justify when I couldn't live my preferred lifestyle without owning an automobile (regardless if I only had to drive 3,000 miles/year) and especially when public transit access to downtown is going to get much better in the next 5-10 years (heck, even this upcoming year when Route 005 starts running at night).

Plus the growth potential is not nearly as high downtown as it is to the North. I mean, buying downtown is still a great investment. I still expect a 25% increase in home-value over the next 5+ years. But I think there are so many places to buy all around the core that have 50% to 125% growth in front of them in the next 5+ years. Couple that with the lack of upfront capital needs, I think having to spend an extra 30 to 60 minutes in my car every week is worth it.

My real question is this: What price per square foot do downtown homes need to start hitting before developers take notice? Or maybe the better question is, what's the best equilibrium for developers to build 50/50 Lease/Sale housing in terms of pricing per square foot. If Lease prices are $1.75/sf, do for sale need to hit $350/sf to be enticing?

There are trade-offs and for some the views of SoSA are worth every penny, especially in a city that has so few view properties.

And personally, there is tremendous benefit to being able to walk everywhere without touching your car. As I noted in another thread, there are over 200 restaurants and bars within walking distance of Midtown and that's worth a lot to some... Including me.

I stayed in SoSA last week for 8 days and when I went to put gas in my rental car, it was still almost full. And that's with a trip to Oak Tree to visit a friend.


I love the Western corridor too, but it's completely different than the immediate downtown area.

OT I eat Moe's burritos 8 days a week...wait thats not possible # humblebrag

I wish edgemere elementary would gets its act together. *response to teo and bchris

My real question is this: What price per square foot do downtown homes need to start hitting before developers take notice? Or maybe the better question is, what's the best equilibrium for developers to build 50/50 Lease/Sale housing in terms of pricing per square foot. If Lease prices are $1.75/sf, do for sale need to hit $350/sf to be enticing?

I've wondered this too. Why won't someone build more condos in DD/AA that go from 300K-500K or so. Or maybe even a bit lower. At 250/sq ft that's still a liveable amount of space, especially downtown. It's like the Garretts built the Lofts then decided they'd had enough (which is fine, really - someone who actually knows what they're doing ought to come in!).

So many rental properties like Metropolitan, Maywood 2, Lift, but really zero new developments (that I know about) that are anything like the Lofts.