I was not really speaking for all of LA - just the area I was in. But it's a very wealthy area near the beach and still set up poorly. Again, I repeat: I'm not arguing LA is bad at urbanism. Just pointing out that all areas have their problems.

I also am not judging Phoenix as a whole. Just providing my perspective from what I saw, which was the least impressive downtown of any major city I've visited. that doesn't make it a bad city. Again, just pointing out that lots of cities have lots of problems.

Not so much an OKC v Tulsa by West Coasters...
Love or Hate Oklahoma City - What Are the Things You Love or Hate Most About Living in Oklahoma City? (http://okc.about.com/u/ua/funandgames/okcopinions.htm)

Phoenix is tier 1?

Phoenix is tier 1?


Just in golf courses and suburban shopping centers.

I am going to have to respectfully disagree completely with you that LA's urbanism is as bad as anywhere in OKC. The two cities couldn't be any more different. Maybe you didn't go to the right place in Los Angeles because it is a VERY urban city. It's a shining example of how to make a car-centric city urban.

It does have good examples of new urbanism throughout the basin. At the same time, it's probably one of the most sprawled communities in the country. Basically, in parts of LA, you can now live without a car, but you still wouldn't want to.

It does have good examples of new urbanism throughout the basin. At the same time, it's probably one of the most sprawled communities in the country. Basically, in parts of LA, you can now live without a car, but you still wouldn't want to.

My brother has lived in LA without a car for many years.

Neither of Oklahoma's cities are large enough or important enough to be on the radar for a lot of people outside this region. When most people think of Oklahoma, they don't think of cities. They think of the Thunder, oil, tornadoes, the bombing, and the religious right. They don't know a lot about it outside of that. OKC is a pass-through city for a lot of people taking cross-country trips. With that said, TU'cane makes some excellent points above about why Tulsa might be more well-known amongst some people. When was the last time OKC was mentioned in a song or a movie?

John Anderson on Sportscenter mentions the Drillers and/or Tulsa in probably at least 50% of his broadcasts too, mostly in passing or a reference 99% of people won't get. And has been doing so for more than a decade. Not that this really influences many people, but I've always enjoyed it.

When I lived in Cincinnati most people had completely forgotten about the bombing. Even a lot of the people I work with that moved from out of state don't know anything about it after living here for a while.

When I lived in Cincinnati most people had completely forgotten about the bombing. Even a lot of the people I work with that moved from out of state don't know anything about it after living here for a while.

I am surprised to hear people have forgotten the bombing. That was the worst act of terrorism in history until 9/11.

I am surprised to hear people have forgotten the bombing. That was the worst act of terrorism in history until 9/11.

Yeah, really shocked me too. But this country is horrible with both history and geography. To be fair, many of the people that were straight clueless were around my age, which made them pre-teens when the bombing occurred. I haven't done this, but might be an interesting test, ask some of your friends what year Katrina happened and where it hit, I bet a few would have no idea.

I am surprised to hear people have forgotten the bombing. That was the worst act of terrorism in history until 9/11.

For many it will not be as much forgot but never heard much about it, anyone around ten or under at the time probably would have had their parents avoid showing them it on the news (so low thirties and under today) , under five at the time is getting too young to remember any live details and at best it might get a brief mention in a history class but kind of falls outside of most of the times they focus on.

The distance between Oklahoma City and Cincinnati is the same as Paris to Poland…Paris to Moscow isn't that much longer than Oklahoma City to Boston.

It's not at all surprising people don't remember, especially because of 9/11.

My brother has lived in LA without a car for many years.

If they ever get the subway to the west side, I might could swing it. Maybe with uber it's totally doable now, but when I was there getting a cab always seemed like more of a chore than it should be, not to mention all the dazed and confused looks we would get when we told people we'd taken a taxi. : )

Tulsa has Spatula City, though.

If they ever get the subway to the west side, I might could swing it. Maybe with uber it's totally doable now, but when I was there getting a cab always seemed like more of a chore than it should be, not to mention all the dazed and confused looks we would get when we told people we'd taken a taxi. : )

Actually, my brother walks most of the places he goes. Other than that, he uses the bus system. When I go to LA to visit, I rent a car. :)

The distance between Oklahoma City and Cincinnati is the same as Paris to Poland…Paris to Moscow isn't that much longer than Oklahoma City to Boston.

It's not at all surprising people don't remember, especially because of 9/11.

Apples and oranges. Cincy is in the U.S. where this was one of the biggest stories of the year. I certainly know about pretty much any semi-major news in the U.S. and little of what happens in France.