This can't happen soon enough, as that area right now is a disgrace.

Several of the businesses have spruced up their properties and this project will make a huge difference.

That is a great deal of reverse angle parking that most Oklahomans are going to be very confused by. After years and years of observing it on University Dr up in Edmond I could probably count on both hands the number of times I've seen it there used correctly.

Even after all the cries that people are going to die in collisions on Main Street in Ardmore when they installed reverse angle in their downtown district.... No one died and they figured out how it worked quickly.

Surely these big city folks can figure it out eventually.

We added reverse angle parking on one street in downtown Denton a few years ago. It was an appropriate street to do it for the same reasons mentioned above. Some people made a fuss for a bit, but you don't hear much anymore. I'd ballpark that about 75-80% of cars park in the correct back-in way.

More detailed architectural/engineering plans, for anyone interested: https://okc.primegov.com/meeting/attachment/7320.pdf?name=PC-0611%20Addendum%201

I can't wait for this to come to fruition. Really wish we could've kept the bike lanes but I understand the businesses probably fought hard for more parking. I'm hoping against all odds this results in more daytime/weekday activity there... maybe a cafe, or bookstore? etc.

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We added reverse angle parking on one street in downtown Denton a few years ago. It was an appropriate street to do it for the same reasons mentioned above. Some people made a fuss for a bit, but you don't hear much anymore. I'd ballpark that about 75-80% of cars park in the correct back-in way.

It is kind of like roundabouts. Everybody hates them/confused by them at first but they are unquestioningly safer.

I don't know, we've had the midtown roundabouts for a decade and often I see the same confusion on them...

I don't know, we've had the midtown roundabouts for a decade and often I see the same confusion on them...

Americans are pretty pathetic WRT roundabouts, no idea why people can't just figure it out after a couple of times through instead of "OMG, WHAT DO I DO, STOP HERE, WAIT, GO, OMG STOP, I ALMOST GOT HIT". Then again, they're pathetic with four-way stops and merging properly, too, which are simpler than roundabouts, so......

I think the simplest rule of thumb I've seen for them is "yield to the car already in the roundabout". Works for me.

I see basically everyone else has more faith in Oklahoma drivers than I do, but until I see reverse angle parking used in Oklahoma that doesn't have an end result of the following I won't be sharing the optimism.

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Picture taken today on my lunch walk.

I see basically everyone else has more faith in Oklahoma drivers than I do, but until I see reverse angle parking used in Oklahoma that doesn't have an end result of the following I won't be sharing the optimism.

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Picture taken today on my lunch walk.

Wow, there's even a sign! I have a feeling you are going to be right about this one. It will be very easy to intuit that you should make a left across the street and park head first instead of backing in on your own side of the street.

Most of Downtown Tulsa has reverse parking. The city has spent years replacing much of the parallel parking and adding more protected bike lanes inside the back-in parking. I can't recall it being used incorrectly.

That’s incredible Tulsa can figure out how to place bike lanes inside of the parking spaces and Los Angeles can’t.

That’s incredible Tulsa can figure out how to place bike lanes inside of the parking spaces and Los Angeles can’t.

Why is this incredible? Los Angeles bike and pedestrian infrastructure is trash. I am in LA a lot without a car and it's wild how often I end up walking on PCH (which is basically walking on a highway) or walking on overgrown grass because there's no sidewalks or bike lanes.

I don't know, we've had the midtown roundabouts for a decade and often I see the same confusion on them...

All the users of the old Classen Circle at NW Hiway don't (or shouldn't be) drive anymore. There are a couple of generations who are kind of new to using them. More and more are being built now, though.

There has been road equipment parked on the grass right-of-way near 39th & Youngs for a week.

Looks like they are almost ready to start.

All the users of the old Classen Circle at NW Hiway don't (or shouldn't be) drive anymore. There are a couple of generations who are kind of new to using them. More and more are being built now, though.
How old are you... 16? Just curious why you think people who drove Classen circle shouldn’t be able to drive?

classen circle was reconfigured in the early 1980's... the youngest folks who drove it still have some driving years left in them.

while I share everyone's wish for more bike lanes I will say the ones on 39th were kind of a joke and due to ignorant drivers were dangerous. I am in this area often and the bike lane was only a few blocks long and drivers still used it as a lane for traffic. there has been many times I have went to pull into a parking spot from the drivers lane and almost hit by someone driving in the bike lane. I really look forward to seeing this work begin however because the area needs it.

(can be said about nearly all bike lanes and how they are viewed/handled by drivers)

^ in OKC.

We use bike lanes just fine here. ...

there are plenty of places where bikes lanes are ignored, mishandled, or considered a menace by drivers. I'm sure you've seen the recent story about concrete barriers recently installed to protect a bike lane due to the number of incidents being removed because too many cars were crashing into them and being damaged. Forget where that was but can look it up...

This is long over due but am excited that it's finally happening! Hopefully this will bring more LGBTQ business into the district. A little disappointed in the renovation of the Hotel. To me still looks run down. I thought the new owners were really going to renovate it but looks like they did minimal (maybe they're not finished)

^

I believe they have a lot more work to do on the Habana Inn.

Work well underway on the new streetscape:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/39th050121a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/39th050121b.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/39th050121c.jpg

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/39th033021a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/39th033021b.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/39th033021c.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/39th033021d.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/39th033021e.jpg

Great photos! Well this is a good first step! OKC Chamber website promotes all the city's entertainment districts but the 39th Street District. https://www.abetterlifeokc.com/restaurants-and-nightlife/restaurants-and-nightlife
That area needs investors to open more restaurant and retail. Dallas's gay district Oak Lawn is a vibrant part of Dallas's culture.

I received a copy of the 2021 OKC Visitor's Guide last week. Pages 8 and 9 contain photos where social media users have tagged #SeeOKC and one of the photos is what I assume is a gay couple taken at Plaza Walls. Made me happy to see that they took a step towards showing inclusivity in a guide that is probably picked up by numerous individuals stopping at information centers along the interstates. And I agree; this district really has so much potential. It's only a matter of time before it takes off.

There is a new bar going in right across from the Boom! i am not sure the name. does anyone know?

There is a new bar going in right across from the Boom! i am not sure the name. does anyone know?

No building permits have been filed as of yet.

Work well underway on the new streetscape:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/39th050121a.jpg







The field on the left and the parking on the right are RIPE for a multi-story housing (retail on bottom) development. Perhaps structured parking on the parking lot but I';d like to see housing on both. ...

I don't think you'll ever see housing with all those bars there. I'd bet the business owners would reject, like they rejected the bike lanes.

First off I know Dallas is a lot bigger than OKC but two residential towers are being built in the gay district of Dallas know as Oak Lawn. I don't think the bar owners mind.
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To be clear, I'm not saying we can't have residential in the gay district. I think it'd be great.

I figured folks living there might get tired of the noise at times, but maybe the way it's built could help with that.

Regarding the owners... I wasn't there, but what I've heard about how they reacted to the bike lanes makes me think they'd be mostly in opposition of any resident demands for the area (for example I could see those folks pushing for bike lanes).

I believe this year's Pride Celebration along "The Strip" is in October, the street scape will be a nice improvement.
* There is also a Pride Celebration at Scissortail Park in late June.

^

The Scissortail Park thing was an attempted highjack by a splitter group.

If it's still happening (and not sure it is) I'm not sure they can use the Pride name.

^

The Scissortail Park thing was an attempted highjack by a splitter group.

If it's still happening (and not sure it is) I'm not sure they can use the Pride name.

Correct. Making it difficult for some organization/groups to participate in both due to the cost. Having to factor in the price of the festival and the parade, twice, will be a challenge

I was under the impression it was a lot more complicated than that.

And the thing at scissortail is still on, they announced their headliner (Grayson Chance (sp?)) the other day.

^

The Scissortail Park thing was an attempted highjack by a splitter group.

If it's still happening (and not sure it is) I'm not sure they can use the Pride name.

Yeah this is an incomplete (and one might very fairly say unfair and incorrect) summary. It’s very much still happening and given it’s being organized by the same group that organized the 2019 Pride (which it should be said I’m not affiliated with in any way), which was easily the most successful pride parade in Okc history - I think there’s little reason to doubt 2021 PrideFest will be a huge success. Going to be a great family-friendly event and a great time to be downtown between it and the Art’s Festival and I look forward to celebrating the ENTIRE 2SLGBTQIA+ community,

Also, this article provides some context as to why a “Splitter Group” “hijacked” pride. (Not trying to be too snarky, Pete, but there’s a lot more history to what all went down, including the previous group’s President being charged with embezzling funds from the organization.)

https://nondoc.com/2019/06/18/okc-pride-week-kicks-off/

^

That is one side of the story.

If people want to read the other side, there is an ongoing case in Oklahoma County. It includes a court order declaring the Scissortail group was unlawful in attempting to dissolve then reclaim OKC Pride Inc.; was also unlawful in transferring its assets and has been ordered to return them; and have been restrained from using the term "OKC Pride":

https://www.oscn.net/dockets/GetCaseInformation.aspx?db=oklahoma&number=CJ-2020-5955&cmid=3935173


And a Free Press OKC article:

https://freepressokc.com/pride-vs-pride-okc-lgbtq2s-groups-prepare-for-court-duel/

I don’t think I really presented a side at all, merely that “ The Scissortail Park thing was an attempted highjack by a splitter group.” was an incomplete (and some might say unfair) summary of the facts (which you point to in your second post on the issue - and there is a lot of disagreement as to what all has happened, which will get figured out one way or another) and that PrideFest (notice I didn’t say OKC Pride) is happening and I look forward to it being a great success, just as the 2019 Pride was a great success. .

I’m sure you know more than you’re letting on and have an opinion based on (I’m guessing, based on absolutely no knowledge - but hey - it’s a message board in 2021 - that’s what people do) what you have heard from some of the relevant parties involved just the same as me. (And I’d say saying someone being charged with embezzlement isn’t arguing a side but rather a statement of fact.) You of course can move my posts to the Scissortail Park thread if thats a more appropriate place.

But at the end of the day, I just came to say in response to your original post, in which you said you weren’t sure if it was happening, that PrideFest is currently scheduled for the same weekend as the Arts Fest at a scissortail and folks should come on down (or up, or over, depending on where you’re located), as it will be a great family friendly time!

^

A court has ruled that the Scissortail Park group had unlawfully attempted to dissolve OKC Pride Inc. while also unlawfully taking assets and unlawfully using the OKC Pride name in all the press releases for the downtown event. The event may be called something different now, but only due to a court order.

So, there may still be an event happening at Scissortail but my characterization was not "inaccurate" based on facts already decided in a court of law.

The field on the left and the parking on the right are RIPE for a multi-story housing (retail on bottom) development. Perhaps structured parking on the parking lot but I';d like to see housing on both. ...

That seems like a fantastic idea.

Totally agree a development like that would be what that area needs to bring into a destination live work play district.

Sitting here looking at the order, and that's not exactly what it says, but even if we agree that it does....still doesn't necessarily make anything a "highjacking," which implies a negative intent that may or may not be the case (failing to follow corporate formalities can be "unlawful" without being a "highjacking" and can happen for a multitude of reasons). But I look forward to both of the events hopefully being successful....I'm sure they'll each have their own vibe and who's to say OKC can't have two great pride events.

But back to the more relevant issue at hand, while it'd be great to see some larger scale development on 39th, starting with even just a couple of high quality restaurants and some placemaking/parklets/better infrastructure/trees (hopefully the streetscape project will go a long way in this regard) would do a lot to make it more than a "club district" that people would want to go to during all hours of the day.

The district needs a wealthy philanthropist. The streetscape being improved is nice, will it include actual street re-surfacing?

The district needs a wealthy philanthropist. The streetscape being improved is nice, will it include actual street re-surfacing?

The street is completely stripped right now.

I've watched our city get more open and liberated. Recall the big debate when our city hosted the Miss Gay America Pageant back in the mid 80s. Now passing of liquor by drink and medical marijuana seems like we've made progress.

Like all big cities when visiting Houston we passed thru Westheimer/Montrose area and saw what made me take a second look with guys all decked out in leather at one bar. My nephew (lives in Houston) had to explain to me what the district was all about.

When they visit here, they really rave about being in OKC--talking about the good looking guys and what a nice time they had on 39th Street Strip. Just glad to know that OKC offers some similarities of big cities. All of our districts with personalities should be promoted by our city from the Western & Rodeo appeal of Stockyard City to the Asian cuisine of 23rd & Classen as well as our LGBiT district.

Proud and love to take my Texas, Missouri, Kansas and Arkansas relatives whenever visiting our city to any area they desire. They know about the predominantly black towns like Boley, Langston , Clearview and Tatums.

My relatives in Tulsa truly believe that if the Tulsa race massacre hadn't occurred Tulsa would be bigger than OKC; right on the heels of Atlanta had the Greenwood District not been destroyed.

To be clear, I'm not saying we can't have residential in the gay district. I think it'd be great.

I figured folks living there might get tired of the noise at times, but maybe the way it's built could help with that.

Regarding the owners... I wasn't there, but what I've heard about how they reacted to the bike lanes makes me think they'd be mostly in opposition of any resident demands for the area (for example I could see those folks pushing for bike lanes).

some folks see this as a draw actually, a 24/7 nightlife lifestyle. And yes I agree we should bring in some restaurants, day shoppes, and businesses - that was why I mentioned retail on the first floor of the development(s) idea as I don't think there's any building currently in the district that could become a restaurant. ..

totally agree that 39th needs a philanthropist. But even moreso, the district needs active participation in the association. Voices (votes) makes things happen. Then space for business to open up and captive residents to patronize (hence my idea of the housing/retail - like Edge in Midtown but more retail).

@Larry, I agree that the city should promote all districts and not just the select few. I suspect the city hasn't really done too much for 39th because they are aware of it's dodgy state - hopefully with the streetscape and some finality with some of the current renovations - the city can feel safer that the district is better on the eyes if you will. Yet another thought were the association can be very powerful.

Most of all - stop embezzling funds people when you get office!!!! You hurt the city, not just your org and (eventually) yourself. ...

https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/media:eed0b07235bb47aaaa4affbf13cb4b1a/800.jpeg

Voice? Oklahoma City Council has an openly gay council member in James Cooper. Many of our council members including the our mayor has visited the area and pushed for more development.


https://freepressokc.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/DSC04246.jpg

They've been great! There's so much potential but....just trying to get the attention of investors. I mean is any of that area part of a marketing campaign?

That area has always been a total eyesore. Not just the ugly, industrial buildings but the road was a disgrace and there was always lots of trash and junk around.

I fully understand why. Gay bars started to pop up here in the '60s and '70s precisely because it was a relatively undesirable and overlooked area. At that time, very few of the establishments even had signs as the gay population largely wanted to stay off the radar because there was so much discrimination and even violence directed at their community.

So, while gay districts in most large cities are nice little enclaves of shops and restaurants, ours was relegated to a lousy area and that legacy lives on today.


This streetscape project will go a long way. And there has been a bit of new development like The Boom which also bought a horrible long-abandoned neighboring car wash and cleaned it up a bit. The District Hotel (formerly Habana Inn) has been doing a small bit of renovation.

Maybe once this is done it will inspire better upkeep by the existing property owners and maybe even some new development.

I hate to say it since I live nearby, but it's presently pretty awful and I hope the streetscape will help the district turn a corner.

That area has always been a total eyesore. Not just the ugly, industrial buildings but the road was a disgrace and there was always lots of trash and junk around.

I fully understand why. Gay bars started to pop up here in the '60s and '70s precisely because it was a relatively undesirable and overlooked area. At that time, very few of the establishments even had signs as the gay population largely wanted to stay off the radar because there was so much discrimination and even violence directed at their community.

So, while gay districts in most large cities are nice little enclaves of shops and restaurants, ours was relegated to a lousy area and that legacy lives on today.


This streetscape project will go a long way. And there has been a bit of new development like The Boom which also bought a horrible long-abandoned neighboring car wash and cleaned it up a bit. The District Hotel (formerly Habana Inn) has been doing a small bit of renovation.

Maybe once this is done it will inspire better upkeep by the existing property owners and maybe even some new development.

I hate to say it since I live nearby, but it's presently pretty awful and I hope the streetscape will help the district turn a corner.

Same. I live nearby and frequent the area often (at least I did, pre-COVID). I would love to see things go in that were non-nightlife. Cafes, bookstores, etc. Things to bring people in on foot and to stay a while. This may not be a popular opinion, but driving the area frequently, I honestly think a) the business and design of the 39/Penn intersection (can be hard to cross on front, with no sidewalk connectivity eastward on 39th...) and b) the amount of homelessness/panhandling in this area may really still be a big deterrent to any further investment as it just doesn't feel that inviting. Obviously the issue is a complicated one, and I'm not saying they're all violent, etc., but the presence is notable. Hopefully the streetscape helps spur some imagination and desire for the area, but even with the cleaned up street and trees, etc. beyond the bars the area is still dominated by auto repair shops, storage warehouses, etc. I'm tempering my expectations for the immediate future of being able/wanting to walk up Penn to both the strip and then a short ways north to OAK/PSQ.

with Cooper in office and hopefully leadership at 39th and Pride sorting things out - somebody can come up with a VISION for the neighborhood.

I have those great, simple ideas but I agree there needs to be daytime as well as nightlife activities in the area for it to be a world class gayborhood. It has the bones, somebody just needs to have a vision and then pool the capital to organically implement a few additions.

Pete, even Seattle's gay district was once in an undesirable area. Not everywhere was as nice as Castro (and even it was undesirable at a time. ..). Have to start from somewhere, same as Chinatowns and most enclaves go actually. ...

39th and Pride

That's an idea. Rename Penn Ave right there to Pride Ave so that it's literally 39th and Pride.

That area has always been a total eyesore. Not just the ugly, industrial buildings but the road was a disgrace and there was always lots of trash and junk around.

I fully understand why. Gay bars started to pop up here in the '60s and '70s precisely because it was a relatively undesirable and overlooked area. At that time, very few of the establishments even had signs as the gay population largely wanted to stay off the radar because there was so much discrimination and even violence directed at their community.

So, while gay districts in most large cities are nice little enclaves of shops and restaurants, ours was relegated to a lousy area and that legacy lives on today.


This streetscape project will go a long way. And there has been a bit of new development like The Boom which also bought a horrible long-abandoned neighboring car wash and cleaned it up a bit. The District Hotel (formerly Habana Inn) has been doing a small bit of renovation.

Maybe once this is done it will inspire better upkeep by the existing property owners and maybe even some new development.

I hate to say it since I live nearby, but it's presently pretty awful and I hope the streetscape will help the district turn a corner.

Unwelcome opinion here, but the owners of many of the buildings don't seem interested in investing a little to improve the look of the neighborhood. There is also a lot of absurd division among people in the community. It's a damn shame.

Also, can we please rename this thread? GLBiT is completely dated. The term has been LGBTQ for many years now.

That's an idea. Rename Penn Ave right there to Pride Ave so that it's literally 39th and Pride.

+1 Awesome!

@guru - I asked to rename the thread a LONG time ago but no action. You have more pull on this forum than me. lol

A big loss was the Gay Rodeo and the business it attracted for 39th & Penn some years back. While not as big as Gay Pride, it was probably the only other major gay event in the the city. However, it is going to hopefully come back in 2022 after covid canceled its return in 2021.

https://www.greatplainsrodeo.org/2021

That would be awesome!

A big loss was the Gay Rodeo and the business it attracted for 39th & Penn some years back. While not as big as Gay Pride, it was probably the only other major gay event in the the city. However, it is going to hopefully come back in 2022 after covid canceled its return in 2021.

https://www.greatplainsrodeo.org/2021
This is a great event, and not just for NW 39th.

This is a great event, and not just for NW 39th.

Hopefully, the District Hotel will be ready for it, because for now the country bar there remains gutted after one year. I know the pandemic sure hasn't helped matters, but it appears to be getting over with.