Justin Nicholas, better known as Nic to those who frequent his wildly popular yet tiny place on N. Pennsylvania Avenue, has started construction on a new restaurant and bar concept in a historic Midtown building.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/nics2a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/nics3.jpg

To be called Nic's Diner + Lounge, the restaurant will feature breakfast, lunch and dinner and a basement level lounge and bar with it's own entrance.

The building at 1116 N. Robinson has been undergoing a renovation which has resulted in the removal of a 70's era metal facade, cleaned stonework and new windows and doors. Interior work started two weeks ago and framing is largely complete.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/nics5.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/nics6.jpg

Nic's Grill at 1201 N. Penn has been featured on the Food Network's Diners Drive ins and Dives and regularly appears on many Best Burger lists. Nic himself mans the grill 10AM to 2PM Monday through Friday, with almost continual lines out the door.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/nics4.jpg

Nicholas told OKCTalk that the diner will feature the same great burgers and fries but also add back the popular breakfast the grill once offered before hours were reduced. In addition to full breakfast, the new restaurant will offer a complete menu of comfort food, such as a Reuben sandwich, chicken fried steak, porch chops and steak.

All food will feature Nic's tried-and-true philosophy: Generous portions of quality, well-cooked food.

Nic's Grill will continue to operate and Nicholas will still keep the same hours there, but will also spend a significant amount of time at the diner.

While the restaurant will feature a clean, open design and seat about 60, the intimate downstairs lounge will be traditional with dark woods and velvet fabrics. In addition to a full bar, a limited food menu will be offered there as well.

Hours are yet to be determined, although Nicholas is considering late-night dining if demand warrants.

This will be the latest in a surging number of restaurants and bars along the booming 10th Street corridor, which now includes Sidecar (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Sidecar), Broadway 10 (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Broadway+10), The Garage (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Garage+Burgers), Bleu Garten (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Bleu+Garten), R&J Supper Club (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=R+J+Lounge+and+Supper+Club), Fassler Hall / Dust Bowl (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Fassler+Hall+Dust+Bowl), O Bar at the Ambassador Hotel (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Ambassador+Hotel) as well as established Midtown favorites such as McNellie's (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=McNellies), Louie's, Waffle Champion (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Waffle+Champion), Stella (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Stella), 1492 (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=1492), Cafe do Brazil (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Cafe+do+Brazil) and several others.

Nic's Diner + Lounge will open this fall.

Might have a breakfast spot next to work now. I will take some pictures soon.

I've wanted to try his chicken fried steak for a long time but know that any time I manage to get into the grill that I'd always just have to have the burger.

Now, the CFS will be infinitely more accessible. And the lounge sounds very, very cool.

I've tried the chicken fried steak before and it's worth trying. Nic's version is a little unique in that he cooks it on the flat top where it fries in the burger and bacon drippings rather than deep frying it or pan frying it in oil.

I am ready. Will the burgers be the same as Nic's. The Myriad Gardens location is different. Anyways, when it opens. The CFS will be the first thing I order.

I am ready. Will the burgers be the same as Nic's. The Myriad Gardens location is different. Anyways, when it opens. The CFS will be the first thing I order.

I wouldn't count on it..... One, because Nic has said he will still be running the grill at Nic's Grill and that nothing will be changing there. Two, I've heard Nic refer to this location as an upscale diner.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the food here will be good but it's not going to be what you get at Nic's Grill.

From what I have been told, Justin has a partner that has been working with him for some years, something close to two decades, who will be running this location. He knows the ins and outs of his grill and knows how to make the burgers as close to Justin's and one can get. So it should be very very promising.

Justin has said the burgers at the new location will not be and not try to be a recreation of the original

Justin has said the burgers at the new location will not be and not try to be a recreation of the original

Good. Wouldn't be possible anyway.

New article about Nic's Diner and Lounge from Dave Cathey today...

Nic's at Night: Iconic Oklahoma City burger joint will expand come fall | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/5420617?utm_source=NewsOK.com&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=ShareBar-Facebook)

Justin has said the burgers at the new location will not be and not try to be a recreation of the original

the writer of the article above seems to think differently:


When Nic’s Diner and Lounge in Midtown, 1116 N Robinson Ave., opens in the fall, he will serve the same burgers, pork chops, chicken-fried steak with transcendent cream gravy and add a few new items. The new place will offer full service and include an expansive basement bar. Back will be the breakfast service he had to abandon for health reasons two years ago, and dinner will, at long last, be served.

the writer of the article above seems to think differently:

Yep... There is definitely some contradiction there from what's written and words I've heard directly from Justin's mouth..... Of course he could have changed his mind since the last time I heard those words.

Anybody been by here lately and noticed how things are progressing?

Drove by yesterday and the plywood is still up over the doors and their is some frame work up on the inside but doesn't appear to be moving very quickly.

Went by yesterday (yes, I'm in town!) and virtually no progress has been made since my last trip in May.

I'll try and find out what is going on.

Does this mean we're having a get together soon?!

Not if Nic's isn't done yet! :-P

I bumped into Nic on Sunday morning. He was heading over to work on the new place. He said it is coming along nicely and laid out the hours. Sounds like he is back in the breakfast business. He makes the best french toast in town.

There's a nice coat of white paint on this building now. It's looking so sharp! I didn't stop and get a picture, but maybe somebody will.

Please tell me you're joking...

Nope. It might just be primer to prepare the brick for another paint color, but I kinda like the white.

I noticed new windows in yesterday, but didn't notice the paint... I'll take a look tonight. That would be pretty frustrating if they painted the brick.

I really hope they didn't paint the brick. I had thought we were finally realizing what a mistake that was.

Does design review go north of 10th? I was thinking it does. Paint would require design review and wouldn't pass if the building were unpainted. If so, and they painted it, someone's going to be in trouble...

Does design review go north of 10th? I was thinking it does. Paint would require design review and wouldn't pass if the building were unpainted. If so, and they painted it, someone's going to be in trouble...

It looks likes Downtown Business District goes just north of 10th to Park Place... which would include this building.

Does design review go north of 10th? I was thinking it does. Paint would require design review and wouldn't pass if the building were unpainted. If so, and they painted it, someone's going to be in trouble...

Are you saying it would not pass design review if the design did not include paint? In other words, paint is required?

No I'm saying paint would usually be denied if proposed for a brick building with no previous paint.

Here is some light reading on the topic that explains why painting a previously unpainted brick exterior is strongly discouraged, both in general and especially for HP projects: Brick Structures - Oh What Damage We Do Inflict (http://www.oldlouisville.com/circa1900/brick-structures.htm)

In a nutshell, it creates a longterm maintenance issue where one previously did not exist, and more importantly traps moisture, which can cause extreme damage to brick, such as spalling. Painting unpainted brick leads to massive unintended consequences in the future, and is very difficult and expensive (and treacherous) to undo at a later date.

Here is some light reading on the topic that explains why painting a previously unpainted brick exterior is strongly discouraged, both in general and especially for HP projects: Brick Structures - Oh What Damage We Do Inflict (http://www.oldlouisville.com/circa1900/brick-structures.htm)

In a nutshell, it creates a longterm maintenance issue where one previously did not exist, and more importantly traps moisture, which can cause extreme damage to brick, such as spalling. Painting unpainted brick leads to massive unintended consequences in the future, and is very difficult and expensive (and treacherous) to undo at a later date.

This!!

I've *never* understood painting brick, even aesthetically.

As a matter of detail, when you trap the moisture into the brick, and the moisture freezes, it expands, and causes the brick to shatter or crumble. Depending on how severe the damage, you may end up having to tear out the brick and replace it. Not a good idea.

Some will treat brick with a glazing/priming compound, but even at that, it's not a good idea, as that typically just prepares the surface to receive paint.

It's just not a good idea. Plum.

No I'm saying paint would usually be denied if proposed for a brick building with no previous paint.

Thanks. I must have misread your post.

Thanks for the link, I'll read it this weekend.

Got some bad news for you guys.

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Gd

So will they be fined? It seems we've had several instances recently where owners/developers have not built in accordance with their approved designs. I think it's time fines are issued to make the point that this is no longer the Wild West. We have review boards for a reason and they need to be taken seriously.

https://www.okc.gov/planning/hp/districtmaps/Downtown.pdf

Here's the link to the boundaries. Certainly looks like this falls within that.

The building is north of Park Pl., so this appears to fall within Downtown Transitional District Limited -1 as opposed to the Downtown Business District. Are the regulations for DTD-1 more relaxed than for DBD?

I've only been able to find two items that came before the DDRC for this building, neither of which talk about painting the exterior.

https://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=2412117
https://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=2893734

Here's the hideous sign discussed in the second document:
https://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=2893735

Was this brick painted in the past? It looks like it based on the side of the building where the brick is unpainted and red.

The building is north of Park Pl., so this appears to fall within Downtown Transitional District Limited -1 as opposed to the Downtown Business District. Are the regulations for DTD-1 more relaxed than for DBD?

You're right, I didn't think that alley was an actual street until I looked closer.... Not sure the difference in the regulations between the two areas.

There is a revision to the certificate of approval from the ddrd. Nov 2014 (nov 17). (3rd google link if you search "1116 N. Robinson site:OKC.gov)

It changes the metal awning to fabric and allowes a brick column installed

However in the attachment scope of work of the revised ca it lists #6 "paint the entire building".

It was clearly listed in the approved revised ca application. But not listed on the revised ca. So I'm not sure what the cities stance would be

Interesting, thanks for the research. ^

Was this brick painted in the past? It looks like it based on the side of the building where the brick is unpainted and red.

No. The primary facade used a more expensive blonde brick, while the secondary and tertiary facades used a less expensive red brick. This was very common in older construction, as the primary facade faces the street and the others usually faced alleyways or had other buildings placed up against them. A modern equivalent of this would be where commercial construction has a more ornate primary facade and the other three walls were tilt-up concrete or some other less expensive material.

Anyway, it's a bummer and should not have been allowed. This is the type of thing that can cause long-term degradation of the building, jeopardize economic viability of the structure for future owners and inhibit future renovation. Painting over unpainted brick (and other similar renovations) during previous generations of ownership has caused long-term problems, condition backsliding and even demolitions of buildings decades after first application. It's rarely advisable.

Wow. This took a sharp turn in the wrong direction. The proposed signage in CS_Mike's post #35 is atrocious.

Wow. This took a sharp turn in the wrong direction. The proposed signage in CS_Mike's post #35 is atrocious.

I thought the proposal was going to remove that old billboard when I first opened it....

I thought the proposal was going to remove that old billboard when I first opened it....

Bigger, cheaper sign if you don't.

Packard's, Garage, Frontline can't be happy about that.

Gd

I'll send you an industrial grade pressure washer from work if you'll go out at night and operate it.

Seeing the picture above makes me so sad. It sure doesn't look like anything was wrong with that blonde brick.

Bigger, cheaper sign if you don't.

Packard's, Garage, Frontline can't be happy about that.

Really tacky. You would hope that the food he's serving there would be enough advertising for his original restaurant... not a giant billboard right next to your new place.

The dude doesn't need advertising for his original restaurant. Getting in there is harder than getting into any club in this city.

Is that atrocious sign a certain thing? How did that get past review?

The sign is still in review.

Is that atrocious sign a certain thing? How did that get past review?

The DDRC voted against it, but Nic does have the option of applying for a variance with the Board of Adjustments. It's probably unlikely that the BoA would approve a variance after the DDRC recommendation. I didn't see it come up in the minutes of the latest BoA meeting, so maybe Nic just opted to drop it.

The paint, OTOH, is probably impossible to undo at this point. I think that the City inadvertently approved it, buried in the scope of work doc in the CA revision. Unfortunate if so..

Board of Adjusters has been very tough on signs in the last couple years, monuments, poles, billboards, I've only seen variances granted for historic reasons. Which is why when buildings like hemi's pizza go down, the grandfathered signs stay up.

The paint, OTOH, is probably impossible to undo at this point. I think that the City inadvertently approved it, buried in the scope of work doc in the CA revision. Unfortunate if so..

Not impossible to undo. I know a few years back that the Circle K at 23rd and Western, when it was operated by a different brand, painted the entire outside (all brick) white. It obviously looked terrible and didnt pass whatever city/neighborhood codes that were in place and it had to be removed. Not sure if it was done by chemicals or sand blasting but it was done.

My goodness, what the hell was the owner thinking? Not only the reasons Urbanized has shared, but it looks really bad as well.

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My goodness, what the hell was the owner thinking? Not only the reasons Urbanized has shared, but it looks really bad as well.

I suspect that is only a primer coat we are seeing, and when done it will probably be a perfectly nice painted brick facade. The problem is that painted brick is entirely inappropriate as long as the unpainted original brick was intact and in such excellent condition.

I suspect that is only a primer coat we are seeing, and when done it will probably be a perfectly nice painted brick facade. The problem is that painted brick is entirely inappropriate as long as the unpainted original brick was intact and in such excellent condition.

Really think it should be stopped in its tracks. How do you go about removing it?

Not impossible to undo. I know a few years back that the Circle K at 23rd and Western, when it was operated by a different brand, painted the entire outside (all brick) white. It obviously looked terrible and didnt pass whatever city/neighborhood codes that were in place and it had to be removed. Not sure if it was done by chemicals or sand blasting but it was done.

You are right about the Circle K, but the difference between the two buildings is that historic brick and mortar (such as what is on Nic's) is usually much softer and more porous than modern brick, such as what is on the Circle K. Modern brick has a much harder-fired glaze. So, when you try to strip old brick you can much more easily damage it. Usually a chemical strip would be advisable. Sandblasting would have devastating consequences, as it would eat through the glaze and make the brick MUCH more vulnerable to moisture and eventual spalling. Even soda blasting is usually discouraged, in fact often so is blasting it ONLY with a pressure washer.


Really think it should be stopped in its tracks. How do you go about removing it?

Chemical strips are much more time consuming and expensive - and often less effective - but at least they generally don't damage the glazed surface of the brick. Once the glaze is off of brick it often becomes BETTER to paint, just to block moisture, but of course moisture is insidious and still finds a way in, so usually painting/removal is just the beginning of the end for the brick, and maybe someday even the structure itself. Some elaborate HP projects actually remove all of the brick and turn it around 180 degrees so that the remaining glazed side faces out, but you can only imagine how expensive THAT is. This makes future renovation potentially much more expensive and often too expensive to make sense economically.

Here is an example of spalling:

https://homestar2001.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/central-park-circle-021.jpg?w=600

You are right about the Circle K, but the difference between the two buildings is that historic brick and mortar (such as what is on Nic's) is usually much softer and more porous than modern brick, such as what is on the Circle K. Modern brick has a much harder-fired glaze. So, when you try to strip old brick you can much more easily damage it. Usually a chemical strip would be advisable. Sandblasting would have devastating consequences, as it would eat through the glaze and make the brick MUCH more vulnerable to moisture and eventual spalling. Even soda blasting is usually discouraged, in fact often so is blasting it ONLY with a pressure washer.



Chemical strips are much more time consuming and expensive - and often less effective - but at least they generally don't damage the glazed surface of the brick. Once the glaze is off of brick it often becomes BETTER to paint, just to block moisture, but of course moisture is insidious and still finds a way in, so usually painting/removal is just the beginning of the end for the brick, and maybe someday even the structure itself. Some elaborate HP projects actually remove all of the brick and turn it around 180 degrees so that the remaining glazed side faces out, but you can only imagine how expensive THAT is. This makes future renovation potentially much more expensive and often too expensive to make sense economically.

Here is an example of spalling:

https://homestar2001.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/central-park-circle-021.jpg?w=600

Dear sir. A previous owner sandblasted the paint off my historic home. I've never thought much of it, but looking at it recently after reading this post it looks like nearly a dang quarter inch of brick was removed in some places. No visible spalling (that I can recognize, at least).

Is my house doomed? How much time do I have? What remedy do I have? Just paint the thing? God I would hate too because the brick is so beautiful.