Yes. Was to the point of nearly collapsing on itself and had to be dismantled and completely rebuilt brick by brick.

Totally harmless....

Edit: And the restoration was a costly labor of love, and will likely not be a profitable restoration for many, many years. It made no direct business sense to restore Marion, but was very important to Midtown's character to be worth the trouble.

So you're saying that the paint on the brick caused the Marion to dang near collapse, it wasn't the fact that it didn't have a roof for thirty or forty years? There are building all over America and Europe that have had painted brick for hundreds of years that are in great condition.

So you're saying that the paint on the brick caused the Marion to dang near collapse, it wasn't the fact that it didn't have a roof for thirty or forty years? There are building all over America and Europe that have had painted brick for hundreds of years that are in great condition.

Because those buildings are repainted frequently. This building was never painted and should have remained that way.

As a business owner when you have multiple locations , you have to have consistency with decor , plates, forks, menus, signage, food, it's what people recognize and it triggers something in your brain. The Grey paint is only darker because it hasn't faded yet, Nics original was painted and replaced Windows and doors around 10 years ago, I would almost bet breakfast that he used the exact same paint code from back then.

As a business owner when you have multiple locations , you have to have consistency with decor , plates, forks, menus, signage, food, it's what people recognize and it triggers something in your brain. The Grey paint is only darker because it hasn't faded yet, Nics original was painted and replaced Windows and doors around 10 years ago, I would almost bet breakfast that he used the exact same paint code from back then.

Nic's food speaks for itself. If it weren't for this thread I'd have no knowledge or memory of what his other building looks like, or what color the plates are. He makes a mean hamburger, and that's all I, and most everyone who eats there, knows. Seeing a grey building does not remind me of a Nic's burger. He's not the next In-N-Out Burger, requiring a corporate theme across 200 restaurants. He has two locations. And no one knows what color his store is, and if they do it's bar trivia at best.

Agreed. That's a lame argument to decree an eternal paint scheme slathered on a downtown structure on behalf of a crap little building in the ten Penn. I don't care how good the breakfast used to be.

The fact they continue to paint and finish the exterior of this building tells me that whatever the design issues were, they clearly aren't holding up the progress.

They are moving pretty fast now.

The fact they continue to paint and finish the exterior of this building tells me that whatever the design issues were, they clearly aren't holding up the progress.

They are moving pretty fast now.

Breakfast is getting closer!

A new filing to the DDRC explains the situation with the paint in detail:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/nics111015a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/nics111015b.jpg

As a business owner when you have multiple locations , you have to have consistency with decor , plates, forks, menus, signage, food, it's what people recognize and it triggers something in your brain.

I think we all understand the value of a brand. But in this context this argument is asinine. There are tons of restaurants, even in this market, even within the burger/grill-centric category, that have significantly different exterior architectural features at different locations. I'm thinking of S&B and Tucker's specifically. For those two it's a positive attribute that they've designed to fit their neighborhoods, versus slapping a generic corporate exterior wherever they invest a location.

This seems like a typical second wave in urban investment. The first wave is a small group passionate about urban living and historic preservation. The second wave sees the opportunity for investment created by the first wave, but doesn't understand the passion for urbanism and historic integrity. The question is how the city (this part has been answered) and the consumer (to be determined) stand for it.

I think we all understand the value of a brand. But in this context this argument is asinine. There are tons of restaurants, even in this market, even within the burger/grill-centric category, that have significantly different exterior architectural features at different locations. I'm thinking of S&B and Tucker's specifically. For those two it's a positive attribute that they've designed to fit their neighborhoods, versus slapping a generic corporate exterior wherever they invest a location.

This seems like a typical second wave in urban investment. The first wave is a small group passionate about urban living and historic preservation. The second wave sees the opportunity for investment created by the first wave, but doesn't understand the passion for urbanism and historic integrity. The question is how the city (this part has been answered) and the consumer (to be determined) stand for it.

Well seeing how Nic's been operating in the 10 penn district before it was cool, That might make him a trendsetter. Regardless just ready for some breakfast :D

Application including paint approved (reapproved?) by DDRC. Note that although the color matches pretty closely, the brick above the windows (previously behind the removed awning) had been painted for years. Also, prior paperwork and staff advice supported prior approval.

Article from Steve: City Planning Staff Screwed Up? | News OK (http://newsok.com/city-planning-staff-screwed-up/article/5461471)

^

Article doesn't mention: 1) Part of the original brick had already been painted; 2) They had to add a brick column and could not find matching bricks; 3) Pickering did reapply to the DDRC to gain specific approval for the exterior painting and the City planning staff recommended approval; and 4) the DDRC voted in favor in today's meeting.

^

Article doesn't mention: 1) Part of the original brick had already been painted; 2) They had to add a brick column and could not find matching bricks; 3) Pickering did reapply to the DDRC to gain specific approval for the exterior painting and the City planning staff recommended approval; and 4) the DDRC voted in favor in today's meeting.

But But But... FACTS aren't that much fun

But But But... FACTS aren't that much fun

Bullbear,
No, but as many folks have said (after the original quote by John Adams) "Facts are stubborn things".
C. T.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

John Adams

Lackmeyer is really starting to lose a lot of ground with me. His handling of this issue and the Elliot Nelson/Sisters issue have led me to believe ego is coming into play and fair play is a lesser concern. When you have the bullhorn, there is an implied responsibility to not just question and then imply fault or culpability, but to speak to fact and respect when parties can't speak because of on-going negotiations or desire to not reveal plans for other valid reasons. I've been told the Tower/OKC Community Church deal exemplifies this as well.

Took this today from a south window looking north.

Will only be about 40 seats in the main dining room plus another 16 in the a private dining area and then of course the basement bar.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/nics010316.jpg

I haven't seen much going on at this site.

Project manager is trying to wrap Cultivar.

From Saturday.

12317

From Saturday.



Thanks for all these photo updates, Dan. It's good to see these things come along as they are discussed. Some are further along than I thought and others are behind what I thought, but it's helpful to see it all. You covered a lot this weekend - thanks again!

I walk by this pretty regularly. I think they have been cooking some mornings, testing the kitchen/recipes. I may be mistaken though. But I don't know where the smell of breakfast could come from otherwise.

Peaked inside last night...

The interior looks much like the last photo I posted above, but all the wood has been stained dark brown.

I'm sure when Larry Pickering (designer) more or less wraps up Cultivar, he'll then turn his attention to this project and I bet it will move fast from that point.

Learned last night that all the kitchen equipment is in and they've been doing their menu testing.

The basement bar will feature a lot of blue velvet and be intimate.

Hope to be open within 30-60 days.

Learned last night that all the kitchen equipment is in and they've been doing their menu testing.

The basement bar will feature a lot of blue velvet and be intimate.

Hope to be open within 30-60 days.

GREAT! This has been bugging me for a long time. Can't wait to get in there!

I took this on Friday.

12461

Still crickets. Did they grow special trees for lumber on this remodel? Oh well, it'll just make it that much better!

Things are still moving forward, just slowly.

They should be open in about a month.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/nics051616.jpg

They took the blue awnings off of the exterior.

That interior picture looks awesome.

WTF is happening with this? (just using contemporary lingo)

Moving along, just very slowly.

Should be open in about a month.

Moving along, just very slowly.

Should be open in about a month.

I feel like Sunnyside was announced like 6 months ago and opened this week, and Hatch and Nic's announced 2 years ago and are still outstanding.

WTF is happening with this? (just using contemporary lingo)

In the parlance of our times.

WTF is happening with this? (just using contemporary lingo)

Thanks, soonerguru. I've been been biting my lip, to keep from sounding like a whiner.
Or, maybe it's because I'm hungry...

I went to Nic's last Friday. I asked how long it would be until they opened the midtown location and he said 2 to 3 months.

They have a sign up indicating they are hiring positions.

It said the hours were mon-fri 5-7pm. I guess they are taking walk ins?

I will get a picture later.

I think you have to appreciate that Nic's got a steady income already and if I'm not mistaken, still mans the griddle daily. If there's no ball busting GC on the job it can take a long time to whip crack the sub contractors and work the schedule.

12747

Every time I see that paint job. And the awnings now covering the paint that held the previous awnings that convinced the city to let Larry paint. Grrr!

Every time I see that paint job. And the awnings now covering the paint that held the previous awnings that convinced the city to let Larry paint. Grrr!

Was the city convinced to let him paint? I was still under the impression it was done outside of city approval.

Was the city convinced to let him paint? I was still under the impression it was done outside of city approval.If this was Eureka Springs, or Marthas's Vineyard, this would be an issue. Nobody gives a rat's petooty about a one story building that's ALMOST in the trendy part of a midwestern city. If we're gonna stick with originality, kick out the tenants of those lofts on Automobile Alley, and make the building's owners sell cars. The ends certainly outweigh the means. So glad that there's a "concern" with antiquity, but it's not always the best policy.

If this was Eureka Springs, or Marthas's Vineyard, this would be an issue. Nobody gives a rat's petooty about a one story building that's ALMOST in the trendy part of a midwestern city. If we're gonna stick with originality, kick out the tenants of those lofts on Automobile Alley, and make the building's owners sell cars. The ends certainly outweigh the means. So glad that there's a "concern" with antiquity, but it's not always the best policy.

Obviously you're wrong about nobody caring. The rest of your statement about Automobile Alley is apples and oranges. Nobody here is complaining about the use of the building. Buildings are repurposed for new uses all of the time. That doesn't have to involve unacceptable remodeling.

If this was Eureka Springs, or Marthas's Vineyard, this would be an issue. Nobody gives a rat's petooty about a one story building that's ALMOST in the trendy part of a midwestern city. If we're gonna stick with originality, kick out the tenants of those lofts on Automobile Alley, and make the building's owners sell cars. The ends certainly outweigh the means. So glad that there's a "concern" with antiquity, but it's not always the best policy.

This seems a *bit* irreverant, but honestly completely reasonable. I think I agree.

Let's be real, if Midtown is going to be what we want it to be, this building won't be standing in 20 years...

Obviously you're wrong about nobody caring. The rest of your statement about Automobile Alley is apples and oranges. Nobody here is complaining about the use of the building. Buildings are repurposed for new uses all of the time. That doesn't have to involve unacceptable remodeling.

True. The Auto Alley analogy is a reach. But this place is hardly an example of "unacceptable remodeling". It looks fabulous, in the photos that I've seen. Look at the top of that "Loft". Is that congruous with Bricktown architecture? Is the Devon tower a complement to the Colcord?

I'm the last person who would argue that every single structure needs to be saved or "historically correct." But this was a step in the wrong direction.

There was paint under the old awnings. Probably signage at some point. They were permitted to paint the red brick on the sides. Not the blond brick facia. The builder went ahead and painted the whole thing citing the paint on the front behind the old awnings. It's injury to insult now because they just put awnings where the paint was in the first place.

There's been a few discussions about paint removal from brick. But it can be done. The tower theater is a great example.

I'm not crying for anyone to be made an example of or punished here. But if planning says you can paint the sided but not the front. Then you do WTF you want. The city should cite them until they remove the paint.

Sign is up... https://twitter.com/DowntownOKC/status/754694772040708096

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cnk24lbVYAU1veY.jpg

The sign is a nice touch, I will admit.

The building looks good, I just wish they would have left the blonde brick. :(

The building looks good, I just wish they would have left the blonde brick. :(

From a preservation perspective, I agree, but I don't think the paint scheme looks bad either.

As one of the first people here to grumble about the painting of the brick, I agree that it looks great; and in fact I ALWAYS thought it would probably LOOK fine. If the building had been previously painted and this was an overpainting I would be an unqualified fan. People still get stuck on the idea that discouraging paint on raw brick is a taste or design thing. That has nothing to do with it. The reason it is discouraged in HP is because it creates new long-term maintenance issues that never existed before, and because freeze/thaw can damage the underlying brick.

In the case of this building the blonde brick was in great shape after what...80 years?

Again, it looks great. The question is what it will look like 5, 10 or 25 years from now. Will it be maintained? The answer is almost certainly yes, as long as Nic owns it. What happens to the building in the future is now much more murky. The simple act of painting raw brick - which, left unmolested, is capable of lasting hundreds of years with only occasional, minimal maintenance - has inadvertently destroyed many a historic facade or even building over the long term. Rule of unintended consequences.

Beyond that, careless REMOVAL of the paint in the future can also cause damage if sandblasting is used. It degrades the baked-on glaze finish and exposes the softer clay underneath. It's just a set of future problems that didn't NEED to happen.

That said, what is done is done, the building indeed looks sharp, and I can't wait for the place to open. A little paint won't prevent me from being an enthusiastic customer.

^+1

We're getting close!

All the waiting has just made me want it more.

Based on the sign, it'll be called Nic's Place?

I live across the street, this could be dangerous.

Based on the sign, it'll be called Nic's Place?

I live across the street, this could be dangerous.

I work across the street. May become my breakfast place.

Did we ever figure out whether (a) they actually did violate existing regulations with the paint and, if yes, whether their were consequences for doing so? Obviously this is important going forward...

But, I agree with everyone else, I'm certainly looking forward to trying it out.

There were no violations.

There was much confusion, where the DDRC authorized the changes then claimed they didn't understand the intent was to paint the entire building.

Crickets. I mean, serious freakin' crickets. I'll probably die of cheeseburger starvation. I hope your happy Nic.
(JK, Yeah, cheese and everything!)

I saw signage up and lit when I drove by on Sunday....

I saw signage up and lit when I drove by on Sunday....

Sign's been up for about a month now. There are people there everyday, they've got to be getting close.