Yeah, in 30 years, and that is being conservative. Let's also not confuse growth with what people who use induced demand as an excuse not to build highways. The Kilpatrick Turnpike will eventually need to be widened to 8 lanes and one day far down the line 10 lanes; that is not induced demand, that is growth. Same reason why is doesn't back up now along with the new Crosstown because you don't see hordes of people driving on it because there are more lanes, there are going to be more lanes if more people start driving it.

Growth follows infrastructure. We could remove Kilpatrick, 240, and the Broadway Extension and OKC would be a lot more dense. Large highways were built and people decided they wanted to take advantage of that by sprawling out with nice large homes with large laws and a green landscape as opposed to cement and asphalt everywhere. Even if the highways were built like they are, people still could have demanded dense urban developments. Now granted, white flight played a role in these spread out communities, but doesn't change the development practices.

BTW, The highway widening would go from downtown OKC to Norman. Hell, just widening I-35 to 10 lanes with HOV and then 8 with HOV and light rail to Norman would solve traffic problems for the next 10-20 years if not more.

You need to read a little bit of history and learn why exactly "white flight" occurred. This is an oversimplification, but our government basically subsidized the auto industry and homebuilders, and one effect was that it became far easier to finance a suburban home compared to an urban home, very heavily skewing development towards the suburbs. It's not as if people were presented their choices in an impartial manner.

Again you demonstrate simple lack of understanding about what urban life entails. It certainly does not mean all cement and asphalt and no green space for recreation. Again you're oversimplifying facts to suit your mindless propaganda.

And again you seem to have no concept that someone will need to pay for all these 30 lane highways and double decker this and that. Maybe if we started tolling every freeway, we could more accurate gauge what the actual demand to drive is - and not just a token toll - what if we charged drivers a per mile rate which would fully cover constructing and maintaining the road. The gas tax hasn't been raised since 1993. I'm not advocating raising the gas tax because it would disproportionately burden the working poor (because they are forced to drive 99% of the time because we have underfunded public/rail transit for decades), but for decades our government has wedded itself to four wheels rather than two feet.

Since you're very familiar with Japan I assume you know this, but it's not as if Japan relies solely on the shinkansen and has no freeways - indeed they do (many high quality freeways in fact) - there are just appropriate tolls in place which far better distributes traffic between the different modes of transit. Driving from Tokyo to Osaka would incur over $50 in tolls IIRC, then you'd have to find a place to park. Compare that to our government which very heavily incentivizes us to drive and promote sprawl, and very heavily penalizes us for using an alternate mode of transit.

A lot of misconceptions in this thread. I will say Dallas is urbanizing rapidly. I advised people who dispute that to actually take a walk around the Urban core in Dallas. The contiguous, urban development is nearly endless and there is so much under construction there in the urban core its difficult to keep track of it all. I can say if I lived in Dallas I wouldn't be as up on everything as I am here in OKC because down there, there is simply too much going on to keep track. Dallas also isn't held hostage to oil prices so new projects are starting and more are still coming. It still has a ways to go on the public transportation front but at least they already have a foundation in place.

Now onto L.A., it is far more dense and urban than most people give it credit for. They've developed virtually all of their land so they are only going to get more dense. They have to because they can't build out anymore. While L.A. is not as dense as New York or San Francisco, it is much, much more dense than the average American city and most of it, wherever you go, is walkable and conforms to urban standards. The buildings are built against the street all over the city and surface parking, if there is any, is behind buildings, hidden from the street. The city has an extensive mass transit system, significantly more elaborate than DART, and you can get most places without a car. People who try to paint L.A. as a massive suburb haven't explored it.

Fair enough - I've rode the DART only a handful of times - mostly because we have zero reason to actually visit Dallas. If we want to go to an actual city we go elsewhere.

No one is saying Dallas isn't growing - absolutely it is - but let's not pretend it's all of a sudden turning into New York or Chicago in terms of it's density, walkability, and sustainability. Dallas is blessed with a large, educated population, and even more cheap land for all of them to build their McMansions. So no doubt, Dallas' growth is impressive, it's just not sustainable without destroying the environment or furthering the indebtedness of the coming generations who will live there.
Dallas is maturing. It will take time, but Dallas has a bright future.

I love Oklahoma City and want it to become great, but OKC is not desirable and i can never see myself moving back there after having experienced what I have and am. I've just accepted the fact OKC will never be the city it want to be(big league). It can be a nice small city, but that's about it.

If you want to be in an up and coming city that truly has future, a city like Dallas, San AntonioHouston, Or Austin or even Phoenix... those are cities imo that really are going to become established major cities like what NYC, LA, Chicago, Boston, Portland, Seattle, etc.

Now they may not get as big or as urban, but they are on their way up and going to become great.

Unfortunately for OKC, despite all he incredible successes it has had and is having, it can't hold a candle to the majority of cities out there. I think it is a huge combination of things, but I believe the state of Oklahoma is mainly to blame.

As for your last point, I do agree, Dallas is going to have to build more sustainable and it is, slowly. There are tons of urban infill projects going on around the city.

You need to read a little bit of history and learn why exactly "white flight" occurred. This is an oversimplification, but our government basically subsidized the auto industry and homebuilders, and one effect was that it became far easier to finance a suburban home compared to an urban home, very heavily skewing development towards the suburbs. It's not as if people were presented their choices in an impartial manner.

Again you demonstrate simple lack of understanding about what urban life entails. It certainly does not mean all cement and asphalt and no green space for recreation. Again you're oversimplifying facts to suit your mindless propaganda.

And again you seem to have no concept that someone will need to pay for all these 30 lane highways and double decker this and that. Maybe if we started tolling every freeway, we could more accurate gauge what the actual demand to drive is - and not just a token toll - what if we charged drivers a per mile rate which would fully cover constructing and maintaining the road. The gas tax hasn't been raised since 1993. I'm not advocating raising the gas tax because it would disproportionately burden the working poor (because they are forced to drive 99% of the time because we have underfunded public/rail transit for decades), but for decades our government has wedded itself to four wheels rather than two feet.

Since you're very familiar with Japan I assume you know this, but it's not as if Japan relies solely on the shinkansen and has no freeways - indeed they do (many high quality freeways in fact) - there are just appropriate tolls in place which far better distributes traffic between the different modes of transit. Driving from Tokyo to Osaka would incur over $50 in tolls IIRC, then you'd have to find a place to park. Compare that to our government which very heavily incentivizes us to drive and promote sprawl, and very heavily penalizes us for using an alternate mode of transit.my phone is about to die, but it'll respond to this later