They haven't done it yet cause it makes too much sense to do it

Can we also please get a Denton/Sanger stop? Denton is exactly 45 minutes from Gainesville and 45 minutes from downtown Fort Worth. A Denton/Sanger stop makes so much sense too.

Personally I'd be down with that. Does the city want that?

Press release:

************

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/winstar022323a.jpg

Introducing the Next Era of Entertainment
WinStar World Casino & Resort has a reputation for introducing the world’s most renowned acts to Oklahoma’s most incredible audiences. After showcasing A-list entertainment like Pitbull, Jay Leno, KISS, Bob Dylan, Brandi Carlile and so many others, it’s easy to understand why our stage is a magnet for unforgettable moments.

Now, we’re turning up the volume and taking our entertainment to the next level with Lucas Oil Live. With 6,500 seats and a multitude of VIP packages and suites, this one-of-a-kind event venue will play host to some of the world’s hottest acts. Whether it’s a rock concert, country superstar or comedy showcase, Lucas Oil Live is your ticket to the area’s top entertainment experiences.

This is a photo I took last April; the new hotel tower is already open:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/winstar022323b.jpg

We were there the last week of January and I don't think it was open then. We are going again in early March so I can find out for sure.The web site where you make reservations only showed rooms in the 3 existing towers. They have casino tower, pool tower north and pool tower south. I don't know what the new hotel tower will be called. I know the new pools were no where close to being complete. They are building at least 5 new pools that will be adult only and have canopy areas for adult parties. I don't think the new event center was open yet either.

Lucas Oil Live is an entertainment venue that will occupy over 250,000 square feet. It will have dedicated VIP, Club and Suite areas. It will be situated nearby to Winstar’s newly opened Spa Tower Hotel, which has 304 rooms.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/winstar022323c.jpg

It blows my mind how large this whole thing is. I don’t gamble but I’d like to visit just to see this in person one day.

We go about every 2 months. They continuously comp us 2 free night hotel stays Sunday thru Thursday. We only have to pay a small resort fee. It comes to $21.40 to stay two nights. We usually get 3-4 offers a week in the mail from them with hotel comps, food vouchers, free play for the slots. It's a nice get away every couple of months. They have a wide selection of restaurants to chose from from fine dining, to casual, to Taco Casa and IHOP. We are not big gamblers but will play the slots. If you do go, get their players club card and use it. That's what will get the comps started. If you walk through the parking lot it is easily about 95% Texas tags.

^

Yep, it's all the DFW people driving up.

And as that metroplex continues its rapid expansion to the north, it will only continue to fuel Winstar and the even more elaborate Choctaw Casino in Durant.

We stopped by the Choctaw Casino in Durant in October last year on the way home from Winstar and it was nowhere near the crowd Winstar draws and were not to impressed with it compared to Winstar. Either were the restaurants either. We ate lunch at Guy Fieri's themed restaurant and the food and service were awful. But even after that one occasion going there and getting their Players Club card we started getting comps in the mail from them too. But just one free night at a time hotel stay. We also go to River Spirit in Tulsa and get comps from them too. But only 1 night at a time so when we go there we get one night free and pay for the 2nd night. If we make a trip to stay in a hotel we always stay 2 nights. We enjoy River Spirit too.

17898

"the population of the Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington metro area in Texas is projected to grow from 7,874,000 in 2022 to 12,859,600 in 2060."

Does anyone know how much lobby money goes to anti-casino in Texas? I don’t pretend to know the history of gaming law in Texas, but the OK/TX casinos would go dark fast if casinos are allowed in Texas.

Does anyone know how much lobby money goes to anti-casino in Texas? I don’t pretend to know the history of gaming law in Texas, but the OK/TX casinos would go dark fast if casinos are allowed in Texas.

Knowing the forward thinking, you can almost gamble (HA) that if casino's were allowed in Texas, land has already been purchased and primed for such an endeavor.

I was at Winstar earlier this week. The new pool area is well underway
17900

Does anyone know how much lobby money goes to anti-casino in Texas? I don’t pretend to know the history of gaming law in Texas, but the OK/TX casinos would go dark fast if casinos are allowed in Texas.

I think the big money is being spent on the pro-gaming side. Las Vegas Sands, who used to own and operate The Venetian/Palazzo, has spent the most on lobbyists for any issue in Texas over the last 2 years. There's been a lot of money spent over the last 10 years trying to get casino gambling passed in Texas, and I don't think they are any closer to yes than they ever have been.

I think the Chickasaws bought the Dallas horse track about 10 years ago and are holding it in case Racinos are allowed.

I think biggest parts of Texas are pretty well served currently. The metroplex has the Oklahoma resorts 70-80 miles to the north, and Houston has many Louisiana choices just over 100 miles east. That's enough to keep the legislature from legalizing casino gambling in Texas. So far.

I just hate that we can't have corporate casinos. Limiting it to tribes is never a good thing. I love the tribes, and all they do for the state. But limiting casinos to just them is going to cost this state dearly in the next 5 years...

With as Bible Belt as this state is consider us lucky that we have what we have. Before the Tribe casinos, never in my life would I ever thought Oklahoma would have any form of Casino gambling. Or even horse racing. In the early 70's we used to have to go to Hot Springs AR for that. Next up let's get sports gambling.

I just hate that we can't have corporate casinos. Limiting it to tribes is never a good thing. I love the tribes, and all they do for the state. But limiting casinos to just them is going to cost this state dearly in the next 5 years...

Could you elaborate on that projection?

Could you elaborate on that projection?

Sure. The casinos that get built in Texas will be more like Vegas-styles mega casinos with upscale shopping, 40 story towers, etc. Our are smelly, smoke-filled, and decrepit. Winstar and Choctaw Grand are nice, but they will also suffer BIGLY if Texas legalizes gambling. Just me, but limiting it to simply tribes having gambling is narrow and will hurt Oklahoma in the next couple of years. Especially since they can only be on tribal trust land (bigger issue, to me). DFW will have multiple large casinos on busy intersections throughout, essentially killing Winstar and Choctaw Casinos.

I think the big money is being spent on the pro-gaming side. Las Vegas Sands, who used to own and operate The Venetian/Palazzo, has spent the most on lobbyists for any issue in Texas over the last 2 years. There's been a lot of money spent over the last 10 years trying to get casino gambling passed in Texas, and I don't think they are any closer to yes than they ever have been.

I think the Chickasaws bought the Dallas horse track about 10 years ago and are holding it in case Racinos are allowed.

I think biggest parts of Texas are pretty well served currently. The metroplex has the Oklahoma resorts 70-80 miles to the north, and Houston has many Louisiana choices just over 100 miles east. That's enough to keep the legislature from legalizing casino gambling in Texas. So far.

You may be correct about the Chickasaw part, but I just don’t see how legalizing it in Texas benefits them. Sure, they could build a casino in Dallas, but so could Caesars, MGM, and definitely Stations Casino with Texan Tilman Fertitta being a major player. If any build mega resorts, then Winstar and Choctaw will be ghost towns. It just seems like a pretty big risk to be adding with that uncertainty lingering.

Though, even if Texas does pass it by the end of the decade, Chickasaw will probably have paid for the expansion 3x over.

If any build mega resorts, then Winstar and Choctaw will be ghost towns.

My post on the previous page outlined why this is an impossibility. Reason: 1a) The population of DFW metroplex is going to almost double in the next 30 years. 1b) The population of DFW metroplex is going to almost double in the next 30 years. 2) Winstar is already the biggest casino in the world. 3) Denton County & Collin County - which have half the population of the entire state of Oklahoma - residents would still be more inclined to drive north with no traffic to somewhere in central Dallas, Arlington, Grand Prairie, etc. 4) Tribes have deeper pockets to get big concert acts and put a non-compete radius on entire DFW metroplex. 5) There is something to be said for "getting away", even if it is 50 minute drive only, than going to the new local casino down the street. Some people might not want to run into their boss, co-workers, friends, family, etc. 6) There is going to be large population growth in the Sanger / Gainesville / Ardmore corridor over the next 10 years. Big commercial projects planned that will have large employee bases.

You may be correct about the Chickasaw part, but I just don’t see how legalizing it in Texas benefits them. Sure, they could build a casino in Dallas, but so could Caesars, MGM, and definitely Stations Casino with Texan Tilman Fertitta being a major player. If any build mega resorts, then Winstar and Choctaw will be ghost towns. It just seems like a pretty big risk to be adding with that uncertainty lingering.

Though, even if Texas does pass it by the end of the decade, Chickasaw will probably have paid for the expansion 3x over.

Take my ramblings with a grain of salt. Except...Tilman Fertitta is NOT Station Casinos. Frank III and Lorenzo Fertitta are Station (AKA Red Rock Casinos). I recall they are second cousins of Tilman, and are not reported to be close. Tilman bought Golden Nugget from Tom Breitling and Tim Poster in 2004-ish. Galveston raised and a University of Houston alum. I know he is a great Texas businessman, but I don't read much about him agitating for casino gambling in Texas.

I think the Texas situation might be waiting until the New York City market clears up. There are more big players trying to get in than available licenses. And the state and city both want huge complexes with equally huge tax payments.

Sure. The casinos that get built in Texas will be more like Vegas-styles mega casinos with upscale shopping, 40 story towers, etc. Our are smelly, smoke-filled, and decrepit. Winstar and Choctaw Grand are nice, but they will also suffer BIGLY if Texas legalizes gambling. Just me, but limiting it to simply tribes having gambling is narrow and will hurt Oklahoma in the next couple of years. Especially since they can only be on tribal trust land (bigger issue, to me). DFW will have multiple large casinos on busy intersections throughout, essentially killing Winstar and Choctaw Casinos.

I guess Riverwind, Claremore Hardrock and Riverspirit neither meet your standards or those of Texans. Who knew?

How though would having casinos outside of tribal land benefit Oklahoma if Texas does build casinos? Slicing the pie thinner for residents is benefiting the state how?

My post on the previous page outlined why this is an impossibility. Reason: 1a) The population of DFW metroplex is going to almost double in the next 30 years. 1b) The population of DFW metroplex is going to almost double in the next 30 years. 2) Winstar is already the biggest casino in the world. 3) Denton County & Collin County - which have half the population of the entire state of Oklahoma - residents would still be more inclined to drive north with no traffic to somewhere in central Dallas, Arlington, Grand Prairie, etc. 4) Tribes have deeper pockets to get big concert acts and put a non-compete radius on entire DFW metroplex. 5) There is something to be said for "getting away", even if it is 50 minute drive only, than going to the new local casino down the street. Some people might not want to run into their boss, co-workers, friends, family, etc. 6) There is going to be large population growth in the Sanger / Gainesville / Ardmore corridor over the next 10 years. Big commercial projects planned that will have large employee bases.

Legalized gambling in Texas would significantly eat into Oklahoma casino profits, Sure, Winstar is the "biggest Casino",, but that is largely because there is a large number of day trippers from Texas and they need lots of games to meet demand. They certainly hope gambling is not legalized anytime soon.

That said, the Chickasaw Nation realizes they need to diversify and make Winstar more than just a place to gamble and our adding in the extra entertainment and shopping amenities like you would find in Vegas. . So they will have a head start if gambling is legalized in Texas.

Oklahoma's Winstar & Choctaw Casinos past and current impact on Shreveport + Port Charles gambling industry is bigger than what Texas is going to do to Oklahoma. Texas legalization will significantly hurt LA more than OK.

Serious question for the Gen X'ers and Millennials on this forum, as the Boomer generation ages, are casinos, in particular what WinStar and Choctaw Durant offer, still appealing?

We have made a few pit stops at Winstar on the way back from Dallas, and outside of gambling, what do you do if there isn't a concert/comedian that weekend? I know Choctaw Durant has added a few family friendly things like a bowling alley and movie theatre, but you can drive to Memorial Road for that. How do these places remain destinations? OKC locally has nice hotels and fine dining equal or greater than WinStar and Choctaw Durant.

I think places like Las Vegas are easily equipped to shift from a gambling destination to a total entertainment destination with ease, and will always attract avid gamblers, but for a casino off of a highway or in a smaller town, what's the draw for future generations? Generation Z and Millennials in particular are showing trends of less disposable income and prefer to spend that income on experiences, versus what previous generations have spent.

Friends my age are big into sports betting. Not as much cards or slots, but will still play them.

I wonder if Winstar would be anywhere near as busy Sunday through Thursday if they didn't comp hotel rooms so much. We used to go maybe once a year before we started getting monthly 2 nights comped regularly. Now we go about every 2 months. I'm sure many others there those days are there because of free stays too.

Serious question for the Gen X'ers and Millennials on this forum, as the Boomer generation ages, are casinos, in particular what WinStar and Choctaw Durant offer, still appealing?

I think places like Las Vegas are easily equipped to shift from a gambling destination to a total entertainment destination with ease, and will always attract avid gamblers, but for a casino off of a highway or in a smaller town, what's the draw for future generations? Generation Z and Millennials in particular are showing trends of less disposable income and prefer to spend that income on experiences, versus what previous generations have spent.

There are quite a few people I know (I'm a young millennial) who are into sports betting.. a handful of them are fans of the casino. I'd say overall in my circles it's not very popular. It's smoky, the crowds are generally 60+, and watching elderly people methodically play slot machines is depressing. If the casinos focus on shows and entertainment, maybe that's the answer for the younger generations, although I have my doubts.

Two of the most depressing things I've ever experienced were at casinos...

The first was getting up early one morning in Vegas and walking into one of the mid-tier casinos trying to find something to eat (everything is designed to force you to walk through the casino). It was like 7:30 AM and there were loads of sad, broken-down people in there smoking their heads off and pumping coins into slots like glassy-eyed zombies. Really the ugly side of gambling and related addiction.

The second was walking through the Remington casino on a Tuesday afternoon to meet someone there. It was pretty much a repeat of the scene in Vegas but felt worse since it was only a few miles from where I live.

I don't think I've gambled a single dollar since.

If you go for the entertainment, and it can be entertaining and go with a set amount to gamble for that day and look at it as if i lose that set amount then that's what that day's entertainment cost. No different than any other entertainment anyone else thinks spending money on costs. More often than not we either break even or come back ahead. My wife even came back on one trip with a 1099. It's just a get away for a few days. Get to eat at different restaurants that we don't have around here and with comped hotel rooms it's not that expensive of a 2-3 day vacation. You have to know when to walk away from a machine when you are up and not give it all back.

Didn't mean to sound judgemental about those who enjoy gambling, just not my thing and there is a huge addiction issue that doesn't get much light.

I still love Vegas once in a while for the restaurants, shows and nightlife. Have had some great times there.

I wouldn't even say I enjoy gambling. But I do enjoy the entertainment of going to Winstar. If I just wanted to gamble I could do it a lot closer to home.

I think Winstar is a north Texas short drive getaway resort. Their biggest investment the last 10 years has been focused on the resort market. Golf courses, landing strip, live entertainment, lodging, swimming pools and other amenities. The half million square foot “slot barn” was built out of cash flow from about 2000 to 2010-ish.

Their challenge isn’t getting young people, IMO. Rather it is getting people with disposable income and time. Most of whom are in their late 30s and up. The younger crowd is still beholden to weekend free time and the older group has more midweek freedom. A movie plex or bowling alley are more focused to locals, and Winstar isn’t a locals casino. I think Winstar does a good job of providing midweek room deals that bring in gamblers and golfers, while weekends are augmented by live entertainment.

Winstar is setting up to be a north Texas getaway that has gambling. Serving millions of people within an hour to hour and a half drive, it can be an alternative to Gaylord Texan or Great Wolf Lodge, etc.

Winstar needs some nicer restaurants that aren't steakhouse. Those are a dime a dozen in Dallas, so why would anyone go there for steak. An upscale chain would do well there, snd help supplement gambling money and attract a slightly different customer.

The new events center will CRUSH it, by the way! The old one killed it, and this holds 3k more.

Well there is no shortage of customers at Kirby's. Price wise it on a par with Ruth's Chris we go to at River Spirit. If you don't make reservations at least 2-3 weeks ahead of when you are going there, you aren't getting in. And there is always a long line waiting to try and get in to Micky Mantles Bar. You will stand in line for 2-3 hours some nights at their Buffet. Try getting in on Thursday night when it's all you can eat crab legs. They have a nice Italian restaurant and just opened a new Mexican restaurant. And Dallas Cowboys is not like anything we have around here. There is Toby Keith's but I wouldn't call that upscale.

Well there is no shortage of customers at Kirby's. Price wise it on a par with Ruth's Chris we go to at River Spirit. If you don't make reservations at least 2-3 weeks ahead of when you are going there, you aren't getting in. And there is always a long line waiting to try and get in to Micky Mantles Bar. You will stand in line for 2-3 hours some nights at their Buffet. Try getting in on Thursday night when it's all you can eat crab legs. They have a nice Italian restaurant and just opened a new Mexican restaurant. And Dallas Cowboys is not like anything we have around here. There is Toby Keith's but I wouldn't call that upscale.

What if you want to come at 4pm? Too many retired folks wanting to get in there, too?

If you are asking about Kirby's their hours are Sun-Thur 5-10, Fri-Sat 5-11. If you don't have reservations you aren't getting in. We've tried.

Serious question for the Gen X'ers and Millennials on this forum, as the Boomer generation ages, are casinos, in particular what WinStar and Choctaw Durant offer, still appealing?

We have made a few pit stops at Winstar on the way back from Dallas, and outside of gambling, what do you do if there isn't a concert/comedian that weekend? I know Choctaw Durant has added a few family friendly things like a bowling alley and movie theatre, but you can drive to Memorial Road for that. How do these places remain destinations? OKC locally has nice hotels and fine dining equal or greater than WinStar and Choctaw Durant.

I think places like Las Vegas are easily equipped to shift from a gambling destination to a total entertainment destination with ease, and will always attract avid gamblers, but for a casino off of a highway or in a smaller town, what's the draw for future generations? Generation Z and Millennials in particular are showing trends of less disposable income and prefer to spend that income on experiences, versus what previous generations have spent.

I have friends between 25-40 that drop a ton of money at casinos both here and in Vegas. It's not just a Gen X and Boomer thing.

I have friends between 25-40 that drop a ton of money at casinos both here and in Vegas. It's not just a Gen X and Boomer thing.

same

I remember an old job I used to have, I'd have to go down to Dallas a couple of times a week. On the way back I'd take Exit 1, stop in and get fuel, and take a break at the casino. The casino was basically a couple 2 or 3 doublewide office type trailers. Full of smoke, not too crowded, I'd play the penny slot machine for awhile. IIRC they were just starting to build something where the current Winstar is now. It was a very humble beginning.

This was back in 2007-2009 ish, my employer at that time is no longer in business. But it was fun while it lasted.

If they could invest more in the golf courses and get a big time tour event there that would bring additional appeal.

If they could get some upscale shopping, that would help them withstand some of the loss when Texas eventually opens up for corporate casinos and resorts.

Having a massive head start in time only helps the Winstar. People who are used to going there and having their lucky parking space, their lucky machine, passing by their lucky gas station on the way etc. Comps might have to increase, but I think it is becoming a destination of its own where some casinos closer to Dallas wouldn't be a huge factor. Overall it might be welcome to temper some of the cheaper crowds who only want to spend $60 and leave (me).

In other words, how many people do you know in OKC that drive by several casinos on their way south just to get to the Winstar? I would imagine there would be similar loyalty going north out of Dallas, especially if they can nail down the entertainment dollar.

It boggles my mind that the tribe doesn’t do anything with the newscastle location. The whole casino is a bunch of pre-fab buildings put together. That place should have been flattened a log time ago and rebuild a large high end hotel, gaming destination center like winstar. Add golf, shopping, spa dine dining and they would kill.

It boggles my mind that the tribe doesn’t do anything with the newscastle location. The whole casino is a bunch of pre-fab buildings put together. That place should have been flattened a log time ago and rebuild a large high end hotel, gaming destination center like winstar. Add golf, shopping, spa dine dining and they would kill.

It seems like constructing RIverwinds may have been a form of that, they have the same ownership but Riverwinds is closer to population and it's freeway has more traffic.
That also gives closer to 3x the space verses just the 2x of the new building, along with expanding how many people are in a short drive of a casino.
Plus most commercial buildings it will be at least 30 years before need either major refurbishment or replacement, granted given how few other types allow smoking it may be sooner for casinos.

It boggles my mind that the tribe doesn’t do anything with the newscastle location. The whole casino is a bunch of pre-fab buildings put together. That place should have been flattened a log time ago and rebuild a large high end hotel, gaming destination center like winstar. Add golf, shopping, spa dine dining and they would kill.

I think the Chickasaw are waiting for the final turnpike configuration to be set. Possibly even waiting for construction to start. I heard somewhere they are planning a health complex in the area, as well.

I'm Very curious to see how the passing of SQ820 will affect Windstar if it does in fact pass. It would be a huge opportunity for Windstar to get yet another advantage they could exploit to entice Texans to cross the border and spend their money in Oklahoma. They are set up perfectly to take advantage of the new law if it gets enough votes to pass.

I'm Very curious to see how the passing of SQ820 will affect Windstar if it does in fact pass. It would be a huge opportunity for Windstar to get yet another advantage they could exploit to entice Texans to cross the border and spend their money in Oklahoma. They are set up perfectly to take advantage of the new law if it gets enough votes to pass.

I'm guessing the land this sits on is under the auspices of the Federal government. If that is the case then it won't have any effect.

I'm guessing the land this sits on is under the auspices of the Federal government. If that is the case then it won't have any effect.

I didn't mean that the casino itself would sell marijuana from its casino property. I meant that it would be used as selling point to get more people to cross the border on regular basis. SQ820 passing would make the idea of a quick trip north of the river for the weekend that much more enticing for a lot of people.

Seems like Texas is slowly moving to legalized gaming. https://txdra.com/destination-resort-bills-in-texas-legislature-endorsed-by-law-enforcement-and-firefighter-groups/

Don't see anything like this coming to fruition.

Texas is not looking for anything that will take away from their entertainment non gaming resorts like the Gaylord Texan--they don't want the destructive baggage that comes with legalized casino gambling. IMO this would lead to organized crime and a threat to the non gaming resorts.

Winstar is a convenient alternative across the border to wet the appetite of gamblers who might otherwise be spending their dollars in Las Vegas--who gets its share in tourism dollars.

Whether they legalize gaming or not in Texas, it has nothing to do with the Gaylord Texas or any other resort. Haha, organized crime? This isn't the 1950's. There is more "organized crime" in the Oklahoma pot industry that there ever would be in a legitimate Texas gaming industry.

Texas online sports betting bill last month failed. If they can't get online sports betting to pass then in-person gambling is a long way off. Next online sports betting vote won't be until 2025. By then, Winstar may have another tower or two already under construction.

Texas online sports betting bill last month failed. If they can't get online sports betting to pass then in-person gambling is a long way off. Next online sports betting vote won't be until 2025. By then, Winstar may have another tower or two already under construction.

They need to focus on amenities and entertainment, since those hotel rooms will be empty if DFW gets a mega Vegas-style resort.

Back to discussing Winstar. We stayed at the new Spa Tower last week. Really didn't seem like a new building at all. We actually like the North and South Pool Towers better. And they are advertising a lot of acts coming soon to the new event center. A few big names. Rod Stewart, Katt Williams are a couple.

Was at Winstar last night and saw Chickasaws are building a new casino and hotel near Ardmore / Lake Murray. It was getting some press on the local news. This may be discussed somewhere else but had not seen anything about it.

Was at Winstar last night and saw Chickasaws are building a new casino and hotel near Ardmore / Lake Murray. It was getting some press on the local news. This may be discussed somewhere else but had not seen anything about it.

Here's more on it; it's called Lakecrest:

https://www.500nations.com/casinos/ok-lake-murray-casino.asp

Just imagine if Winstar had been built on Lake Texoma .....

Just imagine if Winstar had been built on Lake Texoma .....

I’ve wondered when one of the tribes will finally build a casino-resort on one of the lakes with a beach, marina, golf course, etc. surprised it hasn’t happened on either Texoma, Eufaula or Grand