Would you support a MAPS program the included the following items? Would such a program be feasible?

-Full light rail system with lines running from downtown OKC to Edmond, Norman, Will Rogers World Airport, and Tinker with a phase 2 expansion adding lines to NW OKC and Yukon if successful
-Streetcar expansion connecting the MAPS3 streetcar to the Chesapeake Campus to the north and the Wheeler District/Capitol Hill to the south
-Widening and beautification of key thoroughfares in OKC.
-Placemaking i.e. unique light posts, stop lights, etc specific to certain areas of OKC to help establish identity. Sidewalks in designated areas (no street in Deep Deuce or Bricktown for instance should lack a sidwalk)
-Metro-wide paved greenway system for cyclists
-Capping I-235 with a park to connect the CBD with the Health Sciences center

I think doing these things would go a long ways towards fixing things that are problems with OKC's infrastructure. Is there anything you would add? Is there anything that is unfeasible?

A highspeed mag lev would be awesome connecting OKC to Norman.

If that was the ballot I would probably support it, but here is my dream transit ballot

Commuter rail system with lines running from downtown OKC to Edmond, Norman, Will Rogers World Airport, and Tinker with a phase 2 expansion adding lines to Yukon and Shawnee if successful
Streetcar expansion connecting the MAPS3 streetcar to the Chesapeake Campus to the north and the Wheeler District/Capitol Hill to the south
Diet and beautification of key thoroughfares in OKC.
Placemaking i.e. unique light posts, stop lights, etc... specific to certain areas of OKC to help establish identity. Sidewalks in designated areas (no street in Deep Deuce or Bricktown for instance should lack a sidewalk)
Metro-wide paved greenway system for cyclists
Remove I-235
Daylight and restore natural stream network (which would also provide foundation for cycling greenway)
Removal of skywalks and fill in tunnels

Given the commuter rail component, that's a bout three MAPs worth of budget.

Well, it's about time we step up our game. I'm ready to see a billion dollar plus maps ballot with nothing but mass transit. As much as a I love wide highways, this city sucks without a car and it's time to change that.

Screw that; I say we should do A TRILLION DOLLARS for the next MAPS! ;)

My list for "MAPS 4 - MAPS for Metropolitan Oklahoma City" would be:

1) Streetcar expansion: cover the entire core area with Streetcar lines: Expand the current plan to the NW to include Plaza, OCU, and Asian District to Paseo then down to Uptown then over to the Capitol then to OHC then to Deep Deuce. Another expansion would go from Central Park south to Riverside then over to Farmers Market then to Wheeler then to Capital Hill. I would have yet another expansion to cover MORE of the central downtown area that wasn't already built - more interchanges so we could have more routes/lines. $150m

Rather than buying more Streetcars, the focus would be on track for this expansion since cars can be added later as the ridership expands. We could add $20m for a few more streetcars.

2) Transit Hub: put this as a specific item on MAPS, expansion to include city bus, inter-city bus, parking, and Commuter Rail. Add in significant retail so that the Santa Fe Intermodal Station becomes a true working hub full of action all times of the day with modes including: Amtrak, Intra-state rail (to Tulsa), Inter-city bus, Commuter Rail (more on this later), Streetcar (connected stops at multiple locations), Embark bus, Taxi/Uber/Lyft, Rideshare vehicles, Rental car. $75m

3) Commuter Rail: Guthrie-Edmond-63rd-Downtown, Purcell-Norman-Moore-Crossroads-Downtown, Choctaw-MWC-Del City-Downtown. These three lines would be the first. Cities along the way would chose between a CBD style Transit Center or Park N Ride (or both) as their stop(s). $200m

Obviously, these cities and ACOG would need to be involved in developing an RTD but MAPS would be the vehicle to fund capital expenditure and rail/ROW with hopefully the state and feds chipping in after the successful trial run of Edmond-Downtown is established in 2016. Future plans include El Reno-Yukon-Fairgrounds-Downtown

4) Light Rail: this might be a later Maps since we'd probably want to implement step 5 first to establish ridership; but I think OKC has really two or three light rail routes:

* WRWA-Stockyard's City-Farmer's Market-Downtown
* Piedmont-NW Business District-Penn-Classen/Asian District/Uptown/OCU-Midtown-Downtown
* Adventure District-Eastside-OHC-Downtown 'maybe??'

These are the ONLY routes in OKC with the density (existing or planned) along the way to ever justify a light-rail type of system that has more frequent stops than Commuter Rail. $250m

5) Embark overhaul: Instead of having multiple routes following the same route to various outlying destinations, create a true central hub with smaller hubs throughout the city and metro. $300m

Downtown obviously is the main hub and would have local routes and feeder Express and Commuter bus coming into Santa Fe Intermodal station. Some Commuter Routes will be dropped once CR is adopted but a few routes will always be Commuter (Shawnee-OKC and Chicasha-OKC being the two I can think of). There'd still be Express bus for CR routes, where the bus would stop only at specific places but run only during peak rush hours.

In-city Transit Centers at Penn/63rd area*, MLK/23rd, Crossroads*, and Reno/Meridian would have Express and Commuter feeder bus into Downtown with Local bus serving their immediate vicinity. There'd also be some Commuter bus from these In-City hubs to the suburbs. *these stations would double as Commuter Rail stops. A passenger could go local bus to a destination in its vicinity, or go to the hub and transfer to commuter bus to go downtown or another suburb. A true hub and spoke.

Suburb hubs would be either CBD style Transit Centers or Park N Ride depending upon the suburb and what they want. These would have Express and Commuter feeder bus into Downtown with local feeding its suburb. There might be a few Express bus direct to other suburbs (like Norman) if the ridership is there. Some of these suburb hubs would also serve as Commuter Rail stations (Edmond, Norman, MWC, Moore to be specific). Suburbs can chose to expand their hub with a central library/community center/town hall type of development - further enhancing the use of the transit mode.

Special Events - downtown has many events year-round and a few locations (Fairgrounds) and suburbs (Norman) also have major events periodically. During these times, there'd be additional commuter bus going from in-city and suburb hubs to these destinations. The service would go by catchy names such as FairBus, OU-Schooner, Thunder-Shuttle, so on.


Transit Notes:

MAPS 4 - MAPS for Metro OKC would fund capital and infrastructure one time costs. Obviously suburbs would have to be in on MAPS in order for this to work. They'd raise money to pay for their hub(s) and help contribute to the capital purchase of commuter and local buses. ACOG would need to establish a metro RTD with a metro wide gas tax to fund operations for EMBARK (and Commuter Rail for those cities served in the rail corridors)along with state/federal funds. There might need to be a special property tax to fund Light Rail ops along the light rail lines in OKC. This would place 'more' of the burden on those most likely to use or benefit from the transit elements.

6) PLACEMAKING $150m (OKC only)

Lights, Placards, Fountains, Signage, Foliage, Sidewalks, man-hole cover, way-finding: for all of OKC's districts including (my takes)

*CBD - better lighting and public art, CBD-style engraved man-hole covers especially along Park Avenue and Broadway
*Bricktown - better lighting, Sidewalks, Way-finding in Brick theme (so not every building would have to be red brick, the district itself should be)
*Auto-Alley - better lighting, Wide Sidewalks, Retail oriented man-hole covers along Broadway, Scatter Pedestrian Crosswalks (ie, like Shibuya Tokyo). Already has the NEON/LED going for it
*Midtown - better lighting (see a trend?), better sidewalks, Midtown Signage/Placards including overhead/gateways, public art
*Deep Deuce - better lighting, urban sidewalks, public art (historical)
*Film Row - lighting is actually ok here as is sidewalks, but need public art, placards, and film oriented man-hole covers (ala Hollywood walk - OKC)
*Arts District - better lighting, true sidewalks with art engraved, better definition of what IS the arts district (basically only near the Civic Center campus really)
*Park Plaza - better lighting, wide sidewalks to accommodate crowds, tour bus parking lining the streets, Foliage, Placards and Signage
*Farmers Market - LIGHTING!, SIDEWALKS, SIGNAGE/Gate
*Capital Hill - Signage, some sort of central Plaza with a fountain as the defining point of the district (perhaps where the streetcar would stop), trumpet the 'Hispanic Downtown' moniker
*Stockyard's City - Improve on the Gate, Improve on the Sidewalks, engraved man-hole covers, better WESTERN period lighting
*Plaza - Sentinel like Placards, retail themed engraved man-hole covers, period lighting
*Asia District - a real Chinatown Gate (please!!), Red-Light poles, much more foliage, Period/Cultural signage and placards, engraved Man-hole covers representing all of the ethnicities/countries of Asia
*Uptown - Better sidewalks, better Uptown style lighting, entry signs on 23rd
*Paseo - position existing Paseo placards actually inside the district itself, Cultural lighting, sidewalks, Way-finding, FOUNTAIN!!!
*Penn Sq-NW Business District - Way-finding
*Classen Curve/Triangle/NHP - Lighting, Way-Finding, Sidewalks
*Core2Shore - Lighting, signs showing future park and area plans
*RiverSports - Sidewalks!, Way Finding, Lighting
*Eastside - Theme Placards, Statues, better sidewalks, Way Finding
*N Western - Way Finding, lighting, actual Sidewalks to connect the area, some sort of central monument is needed to tie the district together. ...

Of course, ALL of the non-downtown commercial/entertainment districts need BUS Shelters!! These can be themed to fit the district: Red with Chinese roofs in Asia District for example. Might need separate funding for the bus shelters or tie into Embark. The downtown areas would just have bus/streetcar stops - there might need to be a few streetcar shelters but that would be baked into the streetcar budget.

*METRO Placemaking: Team up with (rather FORCE) ODOT to make better placemaking along OKC metro highways. EMPHASIZE downtown OKC as a destination on all routes leading up to the city (and not just on the SIDE of the highway). Emphasize some sort of theme at each Freeway Junction and rename them not for the destination but instead for how they look from above or their significance.

for example the 'Crossroads of America' junction at I-40/I-35/I-235 complete with some sort of Crossroads placard in the middle indicating distance to the final destination from OKC on these same highways: Pacific Ocean 1500 miles W, Atlantic Ocean 1500 miles E, Mexico 800 miles S, Lawton 80 miles SW, Canada 1200 miles N, Edmond 15 miles N, Tulsa 100 miles NE, Chicago 600 miles NE ... would be so way cool. The I-44/I-40 Amarillo Junction could be renamed to 'The Clover Leaf' and there could be real clover leaf trees and/or signs in the clovers (I forget if this is a clover leaf junction). You get the idea. ... Not sure how much this would cost, but this and sound walls and maybe several more pedestrian bridges in urbanized OKC/metro areas would be HUGE!

*AIRPORT Placemaking: Since WRWA is the primary airport for the metro (and state), why not go big time and get some serious placemaking here as an introduction/welcome to Oklahoma. None of that Okie-Dokie crap neither but rather some of the state trees/shrubs/flowers lining Meridian and other streets complete with some identification signage, Way-Finding that is Oklahoma City/Metro centric: maybe a central placard indicating direction/distance to metro cities, Highway signs identifying DOWNTOWN OKLAHOMA CITY!!! FIRST, something indicating why OKC is named Will Rogers World Airport, roadside Statues of Will and Wiley and maybe other famous (not infamous) Oklahomans, maybe an Indian teepee statue :), allow other cities in the state to advertise on electronic billboards as you get further away from the airport, have electronic billboards as you approach the airport advertise OKC things people might have missed or remind them of what they just did, Dare I say - more businesses along south Meridian north of the runway exclusion zone (this is more of a city zoning/incubator situation, but would make for good airport placemaking rather than just empty fields of nothing or blight (worse) that current exists.

Honestly, I think this is the ONLY elements that should be in the next MAPS. I suspect the CC might need more funds for expansion, so it could be its OWN "MAPS 3.1" or something while MAPS 4 would start in 2019. I think OKC could take a huge jump on this by planning what districts need and define their boundaries now, also use existing MAPS to get started with a test or two of MAPS 4 concepts (like the placemaking and the first new Embark route under the new system before it's even implemented). We've done well with previous MAPS, my idea would be the METRO Maps that builds on OKC's success and UNITES the OKC metro area to form critical mass but also pool resources so everyone benefits.

Since this is a Metro-wide MAPS, my estimated $1B price tag could be raised in less time than a normal OKC only maps (say 6 or 7 years vs. 10). So MAPS 4 could be paid for by 2025 and all fully implemented within 5 years from there, assuming the CC expansion/hotel would need a special one or two-year MAPS starting 2017. for MAPS 4, I'd start with placemaking, which is the lease expensive but provides the biggest return of the projects, then Embark (bus purchases and PnR as they get identified), then CR (trainset purchases and PnR lots), then streetcar rail expansion, then intermodal transit hub, then streetcar (additional cars), then EMBARK transit hubs, then CR Transit stations, then Light Rail. This would be the 'natural' evolution of OKC to build off of previous MAPS; further defining the city in a new way during the 2020 decade with Transit and Placemaking as the theme.

Notice the theme in my placemaking - LIGHTS!!! As the saying goes, bright lights = BIG CITY!

Would there need to be a MAPS V after this MAPS for Metro OKC ends in 2025? Perhaps for a new arena and/or stadium - just when OKC should be big enough and ready for a new sports team and have the infrastructure in place to easily support it!

From what I understand, in order to have any chance at federal grants, we will need to have Operations and Maintenance as part of whatever initiative we're doing or our applications won't even be looked at.

Mass transit will be a costly endeavor annually and deserves to be mostly taken care of by a Regional Transit Authority, and it absolutely needs to collect revenue for the system from suburbs that are served.

I would be okay with including capital costs on any OKC specific line in a MAPS ballot, but otherwise, the RTA should pay for it. The capital costs for the street car extension to Capitol Hill should be manageable. To 63rd/Western via Classen, which is a super important line, will be quite costly from estimates provided by the OK GO! group. So maybe include a portion of that in MAPS.

For $1B MAPS I'd like to see the following and maybe how you could market the vote:

1. Capital costs for Street Car Expansion to 23rd/Classen down to Capitol Hill. ($350M) --- Closer

2. Street beautification and place-making of major thoroughfares ($250M…this amount covering #4 & #5 on said thoroughfares) --- Prettier

3. Community centers in each quadrant (particularly for poorer parts of OKC) ($200M) --- Friendlier

4. Biking related enhancements ($100M) --- Healthier

5. City lighting ($100M) --- Safer

1 - Light Rail expansion across the metro to make it something that people actually use and isn't just a downtown tourist ride.

2 - REPAVE ROADS. That last road quality survey was disgusting. Especially the SE sector...OMG!!!!

3 - Since we wasted money on the traffic light study and got crap out of it, lets do a comprehensive one and make the lights work WITH each other instead of against each other. And ensure they reset back to their previous settings after officers control them manually (like how crappy of a job they do controlling traffic after thunder games, I swear!!!).

4 - SIDEWALKS! It's not really even possible, but I'd like to see them in neighborhoods more than main roads. They'd get a lot more use with families taking walks...gotta start there before they decide to walk to shop somewhere or to GET there.

5 - I like the street beautification, but I'm concerned about the ongoing expense of plants. Even perennials and shrubbery require water and trimming. We can handle what we have now (mostly), but somehow we'd have to divide that up to contractors or something (and pay for that) to keep them up and clear of trash.

I think we're all in agreement that MAPS 4 needs to have a city-wide focus instead of a downtown-specific one. That lets you take away the argument that the MAPS program is purely a toy for rich people and businesses (which is an argument that was made against MAPS 3).

I think we form a regional transit authority, with Moore, Norman, Midwest City, Del City, Edmond, and any other nearby community that wants to be involved. OKC can tie their participation to the MAPS program if they want, that's probably the most politically feasible proposal. Each of the neighboring cities can do their funding however they want. We need a certain number of communities to participate, though. If Edmond, Norman, and Yukon are the only ones to pass it, we aren't going to have a functional metro-wide mass transit system. I'm not sure if it is possible to do the entire area in a single metro-wide vote. That may be the best solution if it is possible.

The mass transit committee (whose official name I forget) released a report in January that outlined the best routes for a metro-wide rail system. They had a rapid streetcar running down Reno to serve Del City/Midwest City/Tinker, and commuter rail going from Edmond down to Norman. Just for that, you're talking about something close to 2 billion dollars if I remember the report correctly. I'm imagining the lion's share of that money is going to come from OKC. This is a very large scale project that will push other public projects to the back burner. I don't think you'll be able to fund much of a convention center expansion, or a streetcar extension, while you are doing this big rail project.

I do think the streetcar needs to be extended, one part to hit the Wheeler District/Capitol Hill, one part to go up to 23rd, one to hit the OUHSC/State Capitol, and one to go up to 63rd and the Chesapeake campus. That's a ton of expansion and will be quite expensive. That may have to be phased in over the course of several MAPS programs. We need to find out the best way to get as many federal dollars as possible, and structure our plans to take advantage of that.

While I think the maps idea for a city wide system would be huge, I think it needs to be much more than a few cents on the sales tax. If we are serious about getting a transit system in place, adding a voted on tax to gas should be applied to as well. It also needs to be county wide plus the above mentioned cities that would benefit from it. The maps name has taken some hits the past years and while it would still have a good chance to pass it's time to think a little beyond it. Tweak and create something new that while like Maps address a lot of it's flaws. The bond issue is something soon as well and if transit is something we are serious about there is no reason that busses, sidewalks and much more( streetcar?) are not included on it as well. But this is just my opioion and brainstorming, I iust want to see it successed in whatever form it ends up taking.

1 - Light Rail expansion across the metro to make it something that people actually use and isn't just a downtown tourist ride.

2 - REPAVE ROADS. That last road quality survey was disgusting. Especially the SE sector...OMG!!!!

3 - Since we wasted money on the traffic light study and got crap out of it, lets do a comprehensive one and make the lights work WITH each other instead of against each other. And ensure they reset back to their previous settings after officers control them manually (like how crappy of a job they do controlling traffic after thunder games, I swear!!!).

4 - SIDEWALKS! It's not really even possible, but I'd like to see them in neighborhoods more than main roads. They'd get a lot more use with families taking walks...gotta start there before they decide to walk to shop somewhere or to GET there.

5 - I like the street beautification, but I'm concerned about the ongoing expense of plants. Even perennials and shrubbery require water and trimming. We can handle what we have now (mostly), but somehow we'd have to divide that up to contractors or something (and pay for that) to keep them up and clear of trash.If they plant native, there won't be much cost to maintain any of it.

Screw that; I say we should do A TRILLION DOLLARS for the next MAPS! ;)

I think you mean for the CONVENTION CENTER EXPANSION alone!

The next maps needs to include all surrounding counties. How about someone besides OKC residents chip in since this is a transportation maps that help feed other counties. Also,lets fix the bottlenecks on the freeways that clog the traffic. How about we add a Motel/Hotel/rental car tax to help foot the bill for this massive project?

If an RTA is established, it would be a permanent tax.

The next maps needs to include all surrounding counties. How about someone besides OKC residents chip in since this is a transportation maps that help feed other counties. Also,lets fix the bottlenecks on the freeways that clog the traffic. How about we add a Motel/Hotel/rental car tax to help foot the bill for this massive project?

We could do a hotel/motel tax for freeways when the current tax, for the fairgrounds, expires. I'm not sure though what kind of message it sends that when visitors come, we force them to pay for our freeways. The MAPS program has been about investing in the city's core, to serve as a strong beating heart for the rest of the city. Don't use that same program to pay for more sprawl, as if we don't have enough sprawl. The urban core A, doesn't get the same subsidies in terms of transportation and housing finance that the burbs do; B, isn't over-built and helps to diversify the overall marketplace; and C, serves as an opportunity to attract people and companies we don't already have with an entirely different OKC to choose from. There is no reason to EVER stray from that mission of building up the inner core as a strategic investment for the entire region.

As for traffic on OKC's freeways, besides a brief window around 5, is there really ever any traffic in OKC? I think compared to virtually any other city, the answer is no. OKC has way too much freeway capacity. The solution is to use the existing capacity, rather than build more. If you feel a drastic solution is needed (which I don't), then force more sprawl within existing freeways (tons of open land inside the Kilpatrick) rather than leap-frogging (a la Deer Creek).

5 - I like the street beautification, but I'm concerned about the ongoing expense of plants. Even perennials and shrubbery require water and trimming. We can handle what we have now (mostly), but somehow we'd have to divide that up to contractors or something (and pay for that) to keep them up and clear of trash.

This is my thought. Even the newest medians in Edmond already look bad. And even in the snobbest suburb in the Cincinnati area, their medians looked pretty bad most of the time.

I am all for low maintenance beautification, like murals, 3D artwork in concrete work, trees lining highways/major roads. Tulsa's "Up with Trees" program is about the extent of roadway landscaping that actually works out in reality, IMHO.

I like the OP list, except that I'd include adding turn-lanes to major roads. This is something other cities, include Tulsa, are much better at than OKC. A left turn lane decreases annoyance and increases capacity dramatically, even on 2 land roads.

I think we form a regional transit authority, with Moore, Norman, Midwest City, Del City, Edmond, and any other nearby community that wants to be involved. OKC can tie their participation to the MAPS program if they want, that's probably the most politically feasible proposal. Each of the neighboring cities can do their funding however they want. We need a certain number of communities to participate, though. If Edmond, Norman, and Yukon are the only ones to pass it, we aren't going to have a functional metro-wide mass transit system. I'm not sure if it is possible to do the entire area in a single metro-wide vote. That may be the best solution if it is possible..

This is one problem I think a lot of metros have with their RTAs. Cities/counties in the middle of the system refuse to pay their share, knowing the rail has to go through them either way. For example, Moore and Del City could refuse to chip in, because the rail would go through their cities either way. Luckily OKC has relatively large counties and cities, so there are less players in the game. I really think there would have to be a binding agreement between all of the cities and counties before a system was seriously considered. IIRC Atlanta's train network has some severe limitations because some of the counties refuse to play ball.

As far as the funding goes, I wonder if we could get significant federal funding. Connecting the train to Tinker could maybe increase the odds of federal funding as well, although for it to work Tinker would have to add some kind of transit system within the base.

This is my thought. Even the newest medians in Edmond already look bad. And even in the snobbest suburb in the Cincinnati area, their medians looked pretty bad most of the time.

I am all for low maintenance beautification, like murals, 3D artwork in concrete work, trees lining highways/major roads. Tulsa's "Up with Trees" program is about the extent of roadway landscaping that actually works out in reality, IMHO.

I like the OP list, except that I'd include adding turn-lanes to major roads. This is something other cities, include Tulsa, are much better at than OKC. A left turn lane decreases annoyance and increases capacity dramatically, even on 2 land roads.

I absolutely agree on the maintenance. Landscaping, beyond trees, is almost never worth the expense. OKC doesn't have near enough trees, and could use a program, as long as the species were picked to be resilient and hardy.

Is NeighborWoods still going strong?

Folks need to remember that OKC is a much harsher climate than your typical humid subtropical... I've seen a lot of landscaping "best laid plans" my own included lol.

I absolutely agree on the maintenance. Landscaping, beyond trees, is almost never worth the expense. OKC doesn't have near enough trees, and could use a program, as long as the species were picked to be resilient and hardy.

Is NeighborWoods still going strong?

Neighborwoods is going, but it's focused on the SNI neighborhoods right now. Other tree giveaways from OKC also continue, I believe, and they only provide OKC-appropriate trees, and CHK used to donate gator bags to help with continuous watering.

OKC needs an urban forestry position in the Parks & Rec. Dept. The new Director has stated that trees are a large goal of his. The City of Edmond used to have two urban forestry (mgmt) positions. Not sure if they filled them after both people moved out of state.

Great insight as always. NeighborWoods, it seems, is the vehicle OKC needs to invest in for some urban canopy. Not MAPS 4 Trees.

Would you support a MAPS program the included the following items? Would such a program be feasible?

-Full light rail system with lines running from downtown OKC to Edmond, Norman, Will Rogers World Airport, and Tinker with a phase 2 expansion adding lines to NW OKC and Yukon if successful
-Streetcar expansion connecting the MAPS3 streetcar to the Chesapeake Campus to the north and the Wheeler District/Capitol Hill to the south
-Widening and beautification of key thoroughfares in OKC.
-Placemaking i.e. unique light posts, stop lights, etc specific to certain areas of OKC to help establish identity. Sidewalks in designated areas (no street in Deep Deuce or Bricktown for instance should lack a sidwalk)
-Metro-wide paved greenway system for cyclists
-Capping I-235 with a park to connect the CBD with the Health Sciences center

I think doing these things would go a long ways towards fixing things that are problems with OKC's infrastructure. Is there anything you would add? Is there anything that is unfeasible?

Full light rail system with lines running from downtown OKC to Will Rogers World Airport, and Tinker, NW OKC serving the residents of OKC first with a phase 2 expansion adding lines to Edmond, Norman, Yukon if successful.

Agreed with everyone on the need for OKC taxes to serve OKC residents. The regional rail dialogues have to (and I think have been) structured to ensure that if Edmond, Moore, and Norman want in on the system, which makes a ton of sense, that they pay their fair share. We probably need a two-county RTA. Norman actually benefits hugely from that, because they've struggled to get transit subsidies due to being so disconnected from EMBARK/COPTA.

I feel like we should at least try at Canadian county as well on the RTA.

Another aspect of the RTA is that I would think it would restructure current budgets by the cities as the RTA should take-over Embark, Citylink etc.

What if we skipped "MAPS 4" and did an RTA vote for a $.016625 tax where $.01 helped with capital costs and fell off after 5 years, and the remaining $.006625 existed in perpetuity to fund the O&M of the system.

We could resume MAPS 4 after that 5 year period.

The main advantage to adding Canadian County is that retail over there won't have a tax advantage over OK+CLE counties. That said, how does the distribution of population density in Canadian County lend itself to transit service? Once we take their money, we will have to serve them. Canadian County will probably want El Reno to be served. Is that worth the expense?

The main advantage to adding Canadian County is that retail over there won't have a tax advantage over OK+CLE counties. That said, how does the distribution of population density in Canadian County lend itself to transit service? Once we take their money, we will have to serve them. Canadian County will probably want El Reno to be served. Is that worth the expense?

Depends on how we do it. Frequency to El Reno would not necessarily have to be all that often. Maybe a small train every 3 hours.

Also, it may not even need to be rail. We could easily serve a community like Mustang with bus routes, and provide enhanced connectivity between places like Mustang/Yukon that are more likely to interact with each other.

Also, I wonder if getting the transit in line now would help curb some of the sprawl in those areas.

Is there even a minuscule chance that Maps4 will actually happen without a chamber/council pledge for a large chunk of the funds to go to convention center expansion, and perhaps also streetcar expansion and still more new work at the fairgrounds?

Is there even a minuscule chance that Maps4 will actually happen without a chamber/council pledge for a large chunk of the funds to go to convention center expansion, and perhaps also streetcar expansion and still more new work at the fairgrounds?

If they want it to pass.

2 - REPAVE ROADS. That last road quality survey was disgusting. Especially the SE sector...OMG!!!!


It is sad that the City can't raise enough regular tax revenue to fund adequate maintenance of the existing roads that this is even under consideration by anyone to be a MAPS project. There is a national movement afoot to postpone all new roads until all existing roads are repaired. Surprisingly, I have heard support for this from a wide range of people with direct reference to the Convention Center replacement.

I wonder how much it would cost to repave every street in OKC that hasn't been repaved in the last 5 years.

It is sad that the City can't raise enough regular tax revenue to fund adequate maintenance of the existing roads that this is even under consideration by anyone to be a MAPS project. There is a national movement afoot to postpone all new roads until all existing roads are repaired. Surprisingly, I have heard support for this from a wide range of people with direct reference to the Convention Center replacement.

I wonder how much it would cost to repave every street in OKC that hasn't been repaved in the last 5 years.

Repave? I'm still waiting for the 2007 GO Bond to completely reconstruct our neighborhood's DECADES old concrete streets to asphalt with sidewalks on one side... There are tons of streets in this city that need much more than to just be repaved. So I would imagine it would cost a lot. Lol.

Given how slooooowly OKC tends to roll out general obligation bond projects, I have never understood why they even go the bonding route... you might as well let a tax accrue as slowly as they work on them. I would even be willing to bet that OKC has found a way to LOSE MONEY on the time value of money...with bonds! Amazing, indeed. But no we are a "well-ran" city no need to rock the boat...


Is there even a minuscule chance that Maps4 will actually happen without a chamber/council pledge for a large chunk of the funds to go to convention center expansion, and perhaps also streetcar expansion and still more new work at the fairgrounds?

The problem is not all three of those things are equal. Transit - we simply can't build fast enough for our city. CC - the case needs to be made, but the right CC investment would work. State Fairgrounds and horse facilities - I'm starting to think that in 2015, that kind of money could be put to better use. The three ideas range from categorically strong, to make your case, to categorically weak.

Notice since MAPS has been in power (and nearly always Chamber-controlled) the balance of funding toward either transit versus trade show facilities. Actually, on second thought, let's not think about that...

I might be in the minority here, but I have voted for every MAPS project since it's inception. I believe in it, and I have been very happy with the impact they have had on OKC.
That being said, I would vote AGAINST any future MAPS project that raised the sales tax any more than it already is.

I might be in the minority here, but I have voted for every MAPS project since it's inception. I believe in it, and I have been very happy with the impact they have had on OKC.
That being said, I would vote AGAINST any future MAPS project that raised the sales tax any more than it already is.

Would you vote for a new county sales tax? If so what would be the maximum?

We're at 3.875% for the city, I'd certainly be okay with raising that to a flat 4%.

The problem is some communities have their own really crappy version of the MAPS sales tax, as if they can do anything on the same level. Reconciling every community's sales tax will be very complicated.

Here is a link to the OTC sales tax rate page. http://www.tax.ok.gov/publicat/copos/copo1Q15.pdf As you can see OK is the only county with no tax at all. I am not sure how much will be needed to fund the operating costs but I am sure this is where the taxpayers will eventually be asked for funding when the RTA is established. Of course Cleveland County already has a tax so I am sure that is where the complications may come Spartan.

It's funny - even the programmers of SimCity had a better understanding of just how much money it takes to maintain roads and how much of a waste of money they can be. I remember one of the first few times I played, I lowered the city budget by a ton (to try to make a profit of course), and next thing I know the roads all over town are crumbling, and I had to fix them for what $100/tile or something? But by the time I spent the money to fix them (and went broke), all the residents had left anyway.

Then you're doing something wrong because I have huge sprawling highways throughout all of my cities and they make profits just fine.

Then you're doing something wrong because I have huge sprawling highways throughout all of my cities and they make profits just fine.

Maybe due to speed traps Mr. Anderson, the ones the agents never mentioned to you?

Before complaining about streets, lets look at how other states pay for street improvements. They go do the work and send the property owners that front the street for their share of the cost of the work. I know people in other states that were hit with a $5000 bill for the paving of their neighborhood street in front of their house. It was added to their property tax. They could pay it up front or pay it out over a few years with interest added.

Roads get expensive fast. MAPS shouldn't be used for roads because you'll very quickly see how far your money doesn't go.